Sony discovers Cell+RSX rendering technique

:lol: in other words even Sony doesn't know hot to program for the PS3. they are finding out stuff now

how sad is that?

[QUOTE="Redfingers"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="Redfingers"]

What you should really draw from this article is this: the CPU can render textures, or perhaps shade textures the GPU renders concurrently. They also have "unified memory" that allows them to do this, according to the Sony report.

Teufelhuhn

Ah, I gotcha. Thanks. The entirety? The 256 XDR? Is there a performance hit?

And I assume the 256 GDDR3 is entirely locked to the GPU?

No kidding! Well, the memory clearly isn't unified (I was afraid of the language used in the report), but at least a portion of it is shared, contrary to the assumptions of many. Can you name any particular games that utilize the XDR?

:lol: in other words even Sony doesn't know hot to program for the PS3. they are finding out stuff now

how sad is that?

Areola54

Yeh, Sony shud know all....because teh are teh masterworkerz.

[QUOTE="muscleserge"]DivergeUnify G80= 8800 GTS/GTX. adn my statement was a compliment to the 8800s, because it takes Cell+RSX+ speciall technique just to reach similar performance. But Games won't be seeing this kind of performance because games also need AI and Physics, plus all the other things that make up games that need CPU power.Redfingers

So....all hail the G80 because it can perform comparably at this particular app to 5 SPEs? How....remarkable.

Garsh!

But the CPU has to handle AI and physics, thus in the real world it will be hobbled....okay, well, friend. If the G80 attempted a CPU intensive app (that the Cell is good at), I.E. AI and physics, it would poop its pants.

Errrrrr.....That's the reason every computer has a CPU.

not to metion this just proves what i've been saying all along the ps3's gpu is equal to the 7800gtx, now for someone to do a 360 test so i can pro the 360s ATI gpu is equal to a x1900x pro from ati or 7900 gtx from nvidia....LibertySaint

No one here is discussing the GPU. Not the article, not the tests, not Sony, no one.

This is 100% about the Playstation 3 and the Cell processor's capability for concurrent texture rendering.

The only benchmarks that I gave were from this report regarding the Cell processor and another benchmark regarding the Cell processor versus a 7800 GT (which it outperformed by a factor of 5-6 on optimized code).

[QUOTE="Redfingers"]

[QUOTE="muscleserge"]DivergeUnify G80= 8800 GTS/GTX. adn my statement was a compliment to the 8800s, because it takes Cell+RSX+ speciall technique just to reach similar performance. But Games won't be seeing this kind of performance because games also need AI and Physics, plus all the other things that make up games that need CPU power.froidnite

So....all hail the G80 because it can perform comparably at this particular app to 5 SPEs? How....remarkable.

Garsh!

But the CPU has to handle AI and physics, thus in the real world it will be hobbled....okay, well, friend. If the G80 attempted a CPU intensive app (that the Cell is good at), I.E. AI and physics, it would poop its pants.

Errrrrr.....That's the reason every computer has a CPU.

And the PS3 has a GPU. Point?

why are so many ppl bashing the ps3, cause it has a cell cpu, which is awsome, yeah the 360s xenos is great and can do cpu rendering also. but not as much as the cells....the cell is great i know ppl atm who have a diffrent verison of the ps3's cell cpu that use on computer servers and WOW when u can see what it can actually do! But yeah...the cell imo is better for buisness until ppl find more ways like this to use it in gaming. this is a great start....and yeah i did say it was old, but reading more, wow lots of ppl didn't know it was used in graw2...thats one reason why the shadowing was better...just wish the ps3 has a tessaltor like the 360 now...then it would be a better graphical power house...but as for now the 360 still is. ps3 still owns the cpu department tho...and ram...well thats arguable to what it is used for on each sysetm..LibertySaint

Please, please, please, give me a link on GRAW 2 using this.

:lol: in other words even Sony doesn't know hot to program for the PS3. they are finding out stuff now

how sad is that?

Areola54

very sad indeed

this is something they should of found out before they released the thing.... you dont make a system and not know what the hell to do with itVendettaRed07

thats just stupid! think about what u said....what has everyone every console released been like? the exact the same, the 360, the wii, the xbox, ps2, etc....thats one reason why u see better games near the end of teh consoles life, its because they know who to use it now, they figured alot out on it. Hell devlopers ad microsoft don't know how to use all of the 360 yet so stfu! anyways....this is a good thingso everyone whats the big deal?

what devlopers and console makers learn from the last gen of consoles always goes into there next-gen....and more that why they haven't figured all things out yet, and do u realize hwo complicated the cell is compared to the xenos? O.o its really complicated, really, really...not so much for programming, but it is still hard there too..

[QUOTE="LibertySaint"]why are so many ppl bashing the ps3, cause it has a cell cpu, which is awsome, yeah the 360s xenos is great and can do cpu rendering also. but not as much as the cells....the cell is great i know ppl atm who have a diffrent verison of the ps3's cell cpu that use on computer servers and WOW when u can see what it can actually do! But yeah...the cell imo is better for buisness until ppl find more ways like this to use it in gaming. this is a great start....and yeah i did say it was old, but reading more, wow lots of ppl didn't know it was used in graw2...thats one reason why the shadowing was better...just wish the ps3 has a tessaltor like the 360 now...then it would be a better graphical power house...but as for now the 360 still is. ps3 still owns the cpu department tho...and ram...well thats arguable to what it is used for on each sysetm..Redfingers

Please, please, please, give me a link on GRAW 2 using this.

sorry there is no link anymore....

The Sony paper also says this:

"the PLAYSTATION®3 architecture. The 3.2 GHz Cell/B.E. contains a Power Architecture processor (the PPE) and
seven Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs) each consisting of a Synergistic Processing Unit (SPU), 256 KB local store (LS),
and a Memory Flow Controller (MFC). These processors are connected to each other and to the memory, GPU and peripherals
through a 153.6 GB/s Element Interconnect Bus (EIB). The Cell/B.E. uses Extreme Data Rate (XDR) memory which has a peak
bandwidth of 25.6 GB/s. The GPU interface (IOIF) to the EIB provides 20 GB/s in and 15 GB/s out. Memory accesses by the
Cell/B.E. to GPU memory pass through the EIB, IOIF and GPU. Access by the GPU to XDR pass through the IOIF, EIB and
MIC."

And then provides a diagram....care to decode, Teuf?

[QUOTE="froidnite"][QUOTE="Redfingers"]

[QUOTE="muscleserge"]DivergeUnify G80= 8800 GTS/GTX. adn my statement was a compliment to the 8800s, because it takes Cell+RSX+ speciall technique just to reach similar performance. But Games won't be seeing this kind of performance because games also need AI and Physics, plus all the other things that make up games that need CPU power.Redfingers

So....all hail the G80 because it can perform comparably at this particular app to 5 SPEs? How....remarkable.

Garsh!

But the CPU has to handle AI and physics, thus in the real world it will be hobbled....okay, well, friend. If the G80 attempted a CPU intensive app (that the Cell is good at), I.E. AI and physics, it would poop its pants.

Errrrrr.....That's the reason every computer has a CPU.

And the PS3 has a GPU. Point?

After reading the first post, I understood that RSX+Cell=G80(state of the art high end GPU which at the moment is 8800 series)

So, G80+CPU>RSX+Cell was my point.

Edit: Besides you asked G80 would be pwned running a CPU intensive application....so I asked why it needs to do it when every comp has a CPU to do that.

Cows, remember E3 05 and crap like 'Ray Tracing'?

You never learn...

[QUOTE="Redfingers"][QUOTE="froidnite"][QUOTE="Redfingers"]

[QUOTE="muscleserge"]DivergeUnify G80= 8800 GTS/GTX. adn my statement was a compliment to the 8800s, because it takes Cell+RSX+ speciall technique just to reach similar performance. But Games won't be seeing this kind of performance because games also need AI and Physics, plus all the other things that make up games that need CPU power.froidnite

So....all hail the G80 because it can perform comparably at this particular app to 5 SPEs? How....remarkable.

Garsh!

But the CPU has to handle AI and physics, thus in the real world it will be hobbled....okay, well, friend. If the G80 attempted a CPU intensive app (that the Cell is good at), I.E. AI and physics, it would poop its pants.

Errrrrr.....That's the reason every computer has a CPU.

And the PS3 has a GPU. Point?

After reading the first post, I understood that RSX+Cell=G80(state of the art high end GPU which at the moment is 8800 series)

So, G80+CPU>RSX+Cell was my point.

No. The first post says Cell=G80 at this particular app according to these benchmarks. The RSX was rendering textures concurrently with the Cell processor but it wasn't helping the Cell processor perform that particular app. The benchmarks refer specifically to the capabilities of the Cell processor.

I wouldn't make any unreasonable assumptions about G80+CPU versus RSX+Cell because no benchmarks exist that would make that comparison any easier. I certainly can't help you there.

Cows, remember E3 05 and crap like 'Ray Tracing'?

You never learn...

WuTangG

I watched the ray tracing demo being run on Cell processors. The demo-ee said that it could be performed on a single processor. I watched it happen. Don't give me that crap.

No. The first post says Cell=G80 at this particular app according to these benchmarks. The RSX was rendering textures concurrently with the Cell processor but it wasn't helping the Cell processor perform that particular app. The benchmarks refer specifically to the capabilities of the Cell processor.

I wouldn't make any unreasonable assumptions about G80+CPU versus RSX+Cell because no benchmarks exist that would make that comparison any easier. I certainly can't help you there.

Redfingers

Sorry......I misunderstood the post:|

i read something like this at news for gamers..where the cell could do shaders to to the equivalent of an 7800 gpuwether or not that is true we shall see..

i hope it is true cause the ps3 could do with some help with its RSX..

Is it discouraging that Sony who designed the console is "finding" new ways to make games look better on the PS3?

You'd assume they would build the system around it.

Is it discouraging that Sony who designed the console is "finding" new ways to make games look better on the PS3?

You'd assume they would build the system around it.

0starter0

oh yes, of course, and the PS2 was meant to have launch games looking like GOW2, and the xbox had Halo 2 graphics the moment it hit shelves....

no, wait a minute, that's not right. now I remember, it took time for devs to efficiently produce the best visuals possible.

I hope my sarcasm didn't fool you, because I'm trying to say that all consoles have to wait a period of time while devs figure out new ways to use it better.

[QUOTE="bad82man82"]Good news, but we wanna see it in real time.Redfingers

Okay, buck-a-roo! Saddle up! You're going to Sony's first party development studios to witness this experimental technique in action! In fact, because this demonstration has only been performed behind closed doors, implementing it in a game will essentially be the breakthrough application of the entire operation!

Congratulations, chief!

?!!!!!!!!

Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.thinicer

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.Polaris_choice

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

I think most of us are simply waiting for some tangible proof of the PS3's so-called graphical superiority, because there hasn't been any.

[QUOTE="-wii60-"]The xbox360 processor isn't a monster as the cell, but i have heard that the GPU inside the 360 hasn't been use to its fullest capabilities yet.Teufelhuhn

Cod4 at 60fps is pretty impressive.

[QUOTE="Polaris_choice"]

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.Zeliard9

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

I think most of us are simply waiting for some tangible proof of the PS3's so-called graphical superiority, because there hasn't been any.

You obviously dont own both consoles do you? Go play Heavenly sword and then come tell me anything on the 360 is even in the same league. No game on the 360 has that quality of visuals with 1000+ enemies on screen at at time sorry thats a fact.

[QUOTE="Areola54"]

:lol: in other words even Sony doesn't know hot to program for the PS3. they are finding out stuff now

how sad is that?

Burnout_Player0

very sad indeed

Considering the 360 wasnt even running Quake4 at a good framerate at launch I wouldnt be trashing Sony to much.

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.Polaris_choice

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

[QUOTE="Zeliard9"][QUOTE="Polaris_choice"]

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.Polaris_choice

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

I think most of us are simply waiting for some tangible proof of the PS3's so-called graphical superiority, because there hasn't been any.

You obviously dont own both consoles do you? Go play Heavenly sword and then come tell me anything on the 360 is even in the same league. No game on the 360 has that quality of visuals with 1000+ enemies on screen at at time sorry thats a fact.

i do agree that most of hs is very good but you went a little too fR..

[QUOTE="Zeliard9"][QUOTE="Polaris_choice"]

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.Polaris_choice

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

I think most of us are simply waiting for some tangible proof of the PS3's so-called graphical superiority, because there hasn't been any.

You obviously dont own both consoles do you? Go play Heavenly sword and then come tell me anything on the 360 is even in the same league. No game on the 360 has that quality of visuals with 1000+ enemies on screen at at time sorry thats a fact.

[QUOTE="Burnout_Player0"][QUOTE="Areola54"]

:lol: in other words even Sony doesn't know hot to program for the PS3. they are finding out stuff now

how sad is that?

Polaris_choice

very sad indeed

Considering the 360 wasnt even running Quake4 at a good framerate at launch I wouldnt be trashing Sony to much.

[QUOTE="Polaris_choice"]

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.muscleserge

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

[QUOTE="Polaris_choice"]

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.muscleserge

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

Not necessarily it depends what kind of game it is. And we dont know if Crysis can be handled on a console are not. Cevat is still looking into it regardless the only problems consoles have with Crysis is lack of ram. There are other areas in which a 2GB of ram and a 7900gtx would get smoked trying to run PS3 specific applications.Example games with massive amounts of enemies on screen at a time with there own physics( heavenly sword) . But games with large enviornments which require lots of ram then the pc would have an advantage. it really depends on the game.

[QUOTE="Polaris_choice"][QUOTE="Burnout_Player0"][QUOTE="Areola54"]

:lol: in other words even Sony doesn't know hot to program for the PS3. they are finding out stuff now

how sad is that?

muscleserge

very sad indeed

Considering the 360 wasnt even running Quake4 at a good framerate at launch I wouldnt be trashing Sony to much.

Thats my point. Hes talking about companys not knowing what do do with there hardware . Well nobody knew what to do with the 360 when it launched.. Now look at the 360. A 6800gt cant run Bioshock anywhere in the same league as the 360.

[QUOTE="muscleserge"][QUOTE="Polaris_choice"]

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.Polaris_choice

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

Not necessarily it depends what kind of game it is. And we dont know if Crysis can be handled on a console are not. Cevat is still looking into it regardless the only problems consoles have with Crysis is lack of ram. There are other areas in which a 2GB of ram and a 7900gtx would get smoked trying to run PS3 specific applications.Example games with massive amounts of enemies on screen at a time with there own physics( heavenly sword) . But games with large enviornments which require lots of ram then the pc would have an advantage. it really depends on the game.

[QUOTE="Polaris_choice"][QUOTE="muscleserge"][QUOTE="Polaris_choice"]

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.muscleserge

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

Not necessarily it depends what kind of game it is. And we dont know if Crysis can be handled on a console are not. Cevat is still looking into it regardless the only problems consoles have with Crysis is lack of ram. There are other areas in which a 2GB of ram and a 7900gtx would get smoked trying to run PS3 specific applications.Example games with massive amounts of enemies on screen at a time with there own physics( heavenly sword) . But games with large enviornments which require lots of ram then the pc would have an advantage. it really depends on the game.

I honestly dont now if that pc would smoke the PS3 or not on UE3 I actually think they will run pretty simliar to be honest but will find out soon enough. The PS3 version is already looking fantastic and running smooth. As far as sup com and ME2 for an exmaple yes they do have tons of enemies on screen at a time but they also are extremly low poly characters with low res textures. HS features very highly detailed characters regardless of how many enemies are on screen at a time.

teh potantial

does this mean it'll be able to run madden at 60fps?

teh potantial

does this mean it'll be able to run madden at 60fps?

Mystery_Writer

it should have been able too, seeing as we know it can run COD4 locked at 60fps.

[QUOTE="Mystery_Writer"]

teh potantial

does this mean it'll be able to run madden at 60fps?

Mordred19

it should have been able too, seeing as we know it can run COD4 locked at 60fps.

what's cod4 has to do with madden?

any pic's? :O
Btw i'm never going to post good ps3 news on sw,again.
Squall_Griver

[QUOTE="Squall_Griver"]any pic's? :O
Btw i'm never going to post good ps3 news on sw,again.
Teufelhuhn

psu, the site that faked the interview with Valve :lol:Burnout_Player0

Attempt at changing the subject= failed.

[QUOTE="Zeliard9"][QUOTE="Polaris_choice"]

[QUOTE="thinicer"]Redfingers, that's all well and good, but nobody is disputing the power of the PS3. PS3 games look good and will continue to look fantastic in future titles. But as we have seen in previous generations, raw power and graphics is not going to win you a console war. Price and content, two things the PS3 is having real trouble with right now, will do that for you.Polaris_choice

Except people are disputing the power of the PS3. There are still people under the delusion that the 360 is more powerful because of some badly optimzed ports. Theare are people on this forum that are under the delusion that a 7900gtx can outperform the PS3 on anything and everything( sorry only on badly optimized pc ports).

I think most of us are simply waiting for some tangible proof of the PS3's so-called graphical superiority, because there hasn't been any.

You obviously dont own both consoles do you? Go play Heavenly sword and then come tell me anything on the 360 is even in the same league. No game on the 360 has that quality of visuals with 1000+ enemies on screen at at time sorry thats a fact.

dead rising? i think it does....yeah i'm sure it does, yep it does, actually abit better then HS imo, i still ike HS tho.