Sony Dominating Microsoft's Goal

[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="LosDaddie"]

And again, MS was talking about movies, not games. :)

LosDaddie

For games; possibly. I'd say the x360 is still no slouch in that category.

For movies; I think MS is "dominating" as XBL Marketplace has far more content than PSN.

:)

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

www.mpegla.com/news/n_06-08-17_pr.pdf

The VC-1 essential patent holders currently include DAEWOO Electronics Corporation, France Télécom,société anonyme, Fujitsu Limited, Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V., LG Electronics Inc., **** Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic), Mitsubishi Electric Corporation, Microsoft Corporation, NipponTelegraph and Telephone Corporation (NTT), Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd., Sharp Corporation, SonyCorporation, Telenor ASA, Toshiba Corporation, and Victor Company of Japan, Limited (JVC).

lolfaqs

And you're missing the point of the part of my post you quoted to begin with. Microsoft will not go to Sony to get a license for blu ray. Sony, however, does not have to go to Microsoft to get a license for VC 1.

You know how many companies are part of the BDA? 18! Sony is not the only company that owns blu ray. Maybe you should do a little more research :wink: They all helped develop the blu ray technology that so many companies use today. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more that you and I know out there to spout things as to who needs to do what for licensing issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]MS and Sony are not like that. MS would use Blu-Ray. They use the Sony developed DVD and CD formats, don't they? They just lost a ton of money on the HD DVD add on and are not keen on doing that all over again, especially this late in the game.lolfaqs

Um, they're businesses in direct competition with each other in the console war. Of course they're like that. Sony has a BD patent. Microsoft does not. VC 1 is irrelevant, because both companies have patents in it along with other companies. Microsoft does not have the exclusive ability to grant VC 1 licenses. Sony is on the list of companies that can grant that license.

www.mpegla.com/vc1/vc1-licensors.cfm

Thus, your argument about how Microsoft developed VC 1 is irrelevant, because Sony still does not have to go to Microsoft for a license.

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]MS and Sony are not like that. MS would use Blu-Ray. They use the Sony developed DVD and CD formats, don't they? They just lost a ton of money on the HD DVD add on and are not keen on doing that all over again, especially this late in the game.SpruceCaboose

Um, they're businesses in direct competition with each other in the console war. Of course they're like that. Sony has a BD patent. Microsoft does not. VC 1 is irrelevant, because both companies have patents in it along with other companies. Microsoft does not have the exclusive ability to grant VC 1 licenses. Sony is on the list of companies that can grant that license.

www.mpegla.com/vc1/vc1-licensors.cfm

Thus, your argument about how Microsoft developed VC 1 is irrelevant, because Sony still does not have to go to Microsoft for a license.

No, now you're twisting my words around. I said that Microsoft will not go to Sony to get a licensefor BD.

[QUOTE="spinecaton"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

Do you have a source for that? Because as far as I know, Microsoft never had any part in developing blu ray.

SpruceCaboose

There you go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC-1

Would it be Sony that pays the royalties though? I mean, not all Blu-ray movies are encoded in VC-1, so wouldn't it be up to each individual studio to decide on which codec to use?

No, now you're twisting my words around. I said that Microsoft will not go to Sony to get a licensefor BD.

lolfaqs

You know how many companies are part of the BDA? 18! Sony is not the only company that owns blu ray. Maybe you should do a little more research :wink: They all helped develop the blu ray technology that so many companies use today. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more that you and I know out there to spout things as to who needs to do what for licensing issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

spinecaton

And of those 18, only 9 were founding members, including Sony who spearheaded the project to begin with. You know who isn't on that list though? Microsoft.

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

They said games would be $39.99 when released over PSN, we'll see if that holds up...

heretrix

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="spinecaton"]

There you go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC-1

BZSIN

Would it be Sony that pays the royalties though? I mean, not all Blu-ray movies are encoded in VC-1, so wouldn't it be up to each individual studio to decide on which codec to use?

[QUOTE="spinecaton"]

You know how many companies are part of the BDA? 18! Sony is not the only company that owns blu ray. Maybe you should do a little more research :wink: They all helped develop the blu ray technology that so many companies use today. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more that you and I know out there to spout things as to who needs to do what for licensing issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

lolfaqs

And of those 18, only 9 were founding members, including Sony who spearheaded the project to begin with. You know who isn't on that list though? Microsoft.

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

No, now you're twisting my words around. I said that Microsoft will not go to Sony to get a licensefor BD.

SpruceCaboose

No, it's hardly the same thing. To use BD, Microsoft will need a license, which is what this is about.

To be honest, 3 aren't full games and one was more than seven months old when it was available.

heretrix

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"][QUOTE="spinecaton"]

You know how many companies are part of the BDA? 18! Sony is not the only company that owns blu ray. Maybe you should do a little more research :wink: They all helped develop the blu ray technology that so many companies use today. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more that you and I know out there to spout things as to who needs to do what for licensing issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

SpruceCaboose

And of those 18, only 9 were founding members, including Sony who spearheaded the project to begin with. You know who isn't on that list though? Microsoft.

Regardless, Microsoft is still not on that list, nor will they ever be. You know what that means? They need a license to use BD.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

No, now you're twisting my words around. I said that Microsoft will not go to Sony to get a licensefor BD.

lolfaqs

No, it's hardly the same thing. To use BD, Microsoft will need a license, which is what this is about.

So...they would buy a license and not use it? I don't get the distinction that you are making between using a Sony made tech and getting a license to use that tech.SpruceCaboose

No, they wont' use it, because they will not go to Sony to ask for a license. Do you need everything spelled out?

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

And of those 18, only 9 were founding members, including Sony who spearheaded the project to begin with. You know who isn't on that list though? Microsoft.

lolfaqs

Regardless, Microsoft is still not on that list, nor will they ever be. You know what that means? They need a license to use BD.

MS could be on the list if they wanted to. Its not like Sony and the BDA are spoiled kids going "Neener neener neener, you can't have any!" MS has had no reason to use Blu-Ray yet. The 360 cannot use it, and it would only be useful with an add on, which I think MS has learned is a bad idea.SpruceCaboose

The only way MS can get on that list is if they pay the annual dues AND are voted in by the board members.

Do you think Sony is going to ask Microsoft for a license to let people install Windows on PS3? Hell no. That's why PS3 went with linux instead.lolfaqs

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

No, now you're twisting my words around. I said that Microsoft will not go to Sony to get a licensefor BD.

lolfaqs

No, it's hardly the same thing. To use BD, Microsoft will need a license, which is what this is about.

Can you provide a link saying that Sony and only Sony is the one that give out the licensing for the Blu ray technology.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]MS could be on the list if they wanted to. Its not like Sony and the BDA are spoiled kids going "Neener neener neener, you can't have any!" MS has had no reason to use Blu-Ray yet. The 360 cannot use it, and it would only be useful with an add on, which I think MS has learned is a bad idea.lolfaqs

The only way MS can get on that list is if they pay the annual dues AND are voted in by the board members.

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"]Do you think Sony is going to ask Microsoft for a license to let people install Windows on PS3? Hell no. That's why PS3 went with linux instead.SpruceCaboose

License to use Windows on a PC =/= license to use Windows on PS3. Do you think Microsoft is going to grant a license to use Windows on PS3 when they don't even let 360 gamers to install it on the 360?

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]MS could be on the list if they wanted to. Its not like Sony and the BDA are spoiled kids going "Neener neener neener, you can't have any!" MS has had no reason to use Blu-Ray yet. The 360 cannot use it, and it would only be useful with an add on, which I think MS has learned is a bad idea.SpruceCaboose

The only way MS can get on that list is if they pay the annual dues AND are voted in by the board members.

billions of dollars are meaningless when the annual fees are set at $50,000 and board members include companies like Sony and Apple.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]Do you think Sony is going to ask Microsoft for a license to let people install Windows on PS3? Hell no. That's why PS3 went with linux instead.lolfaqs

License to use Windows on a PC =/= license to use Windows on PS3. Do you think Microsoft is going to grant a license to use Windows on PS3 when they don't even let 360 gamers to install it on the 360?

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]Do you think Sony is going to ask Microsoft for a license to let people install Windows on PS3? Hell no. That's why PS3 went with linux instead.lolfaqs

License to use Windows on a PC =/= license to use Windows on PS3. Do you think Microsoft is going to grant a license to use Windows on PS3 when they don't even let 360 gamers to install it on the 360?

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] You mean like all Sony PCs that use Windows? They are partners in just about every area imaginable. Why do you not think that they would get a license if they had a reason to? They don't have a reason to at all. That is why they don't have a license to use it.JLF1

License to use Windows on a PC =/= license to use Windows on PS3. Do you think Microsoft is going to grant a license to use Windows on PS3 when they don't even let 360 gamers to install it on the 360?

He didn't have to. He quoted my post about Windows on PS3.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

The only way MS can get on that list is if they pay the annual dues AND are voted in by the board members.

lolfaqs

billions of dollars are meaningless when the annual fees are set at $50,000 and board members include companies like Sony and Apple.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

The only way MS can get on that list is if they pay the annual dues AND are voted in by the board members.

lolfaqs

billions of dollars are meaningless when the annual fees are set at $50,000 and board members include companies like Sony and Apple.

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] You mean like all Sony PCs that use Windows? They are partners in just about every area imaginable. Why do you not think that they would get a license if they had a reason to? They don't have a reason to at all. That is why they don't have a license to use it.SpruceCaboose

License to use Windows on a PC =/= license to use Windows on PS3. Do you think Microsoft is going to grant a license to use Windows on PS3 when they don't even let 360 gamers to install it on the 360?

Again, you're avoiding the issue. The hypo is that Sony would not go to Microsoft to ask for such a license, because Microsoft would never grant it, especially since Microsoft doesn't even allow for Windows on the 360. Likewise, Microsoft will never go to Sony for a BD license to use on the 360, because they are direct competitors in the console market.

Uh, MS is the reason Apple is still around, and the annual fee is $3,000, not $50,000.SpruceCaboose

Um, check your facts again. The $3,000 annual fees are for members, the lowest rank in the organization. To be a BOARD member, the fees are $50,000, and only BOARD members can grant licenses.

Again, you're avoiding the issue. The hypo is that Sony would not go to Microsoft to ask for such a license, because Microsoft would never grant it, especially since Microsoft doesn't even allow for Windows on the 360. Likewise, Microsoft will never go to Sony for a BD license to use on the 360, because they are direct competitors in the console market.

lolfaqs

Again, you're avoiding the issue. The hypo is that Sony would not go to Microsoft to ask for such a license, because Microsoft would never grant it, especially since Microsoft doesn't even allow for Windows on the 360. Likewise, Microsoft will never go to Sony for a BD license to use on the 360, because they are direct competitors in the console market.

lolfaqs

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] Yes, the big dog in the tech industry with billions of dollars in revenue annually would be turned away....JLF1

billions of dollars are meaningless when the annual fees are set at $50,000 and board members include companies like Sony and Apple.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

"Companies participating in the Board of Directors are active participants of the format creation and key BDA activities. They are selected from the Contributors by election. The board sets an overall strategy and approves key issues. A board member can participate in all activities and attend all meetings. The Blu ray Disc Founder companies will make up the initial Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 50,000"

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]Uh, MS is the reason Apple is still around, and the annual fee is $3,000, not $50,000.lolfaqs

Um, check your facts again. The $3,000 annual fees are for members, the lowest rank in the organization. To be a BOARD member, the fees are $50,000, and only BOARD members can grant licenses.

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

Again, you're avoiding the issue. The hypo is that Sony would not go to Microsoft to ask for such a license, because Microsoft would never grant it, especially since Microsoft doesn't even allow for Windows on the 360. Likewise, Microsoft will never go to Sony for a BD license to use on the 360, because they are direct competitors in the console market.

SpruceCaboose

You're joking, right? Microsoft is going to agree to let people install Windows on PS3 and give the PS3 yet another feature that the 360 doesn't have?

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]Uh, MS is the reason Apple is still around, and the annual fee is $3,000, not $50,000.lolfaqs

Um, check your facts again. The $3,000 annual fees are for members, the lowest rank in the organization. To be a BOARD member, the fees are $50,000, and only BOARD members can grant licenses.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

Again, you're avoiding the issue. The hypo is that Sony would not go to Microsoft to ask for such a license, because Microsoft would never grant it, especially since Microsoft doesn't even allow for Windows on the 360. Likewise, Microsoft will never go to Sony for a BD license to use on the 360, because they are direct competitors in the console market.

lolfaqs

You're joking, right? Microsoft is going to agree to let people install Windows on PS3 and give the PS3 yet another feature that the 360 doesn't have?

Ok, so you think if they were a member of the BDA that they BDA would deny them a license? Hell, that they would deny them a license anyway? So in your world, Sony actively undercuts its revenue and also hoses all the other board members, and no one bats an eye? That would explain how Sony lost so much money this generation.SpruceCaboose

This is what you get for being a mere member.

"General membership provides access to specific information from Committee discussions. A general member can attend general meetings and seminars. They can participate in specific Regional Promotion Team activities and specific CC activities. Annual fee $3,000"

That's it. You don't get a guaranteed license. License applications still have to be voted on by the board members.

SpruceCaboose

Well, if you really want to believe that Microsoft will take money in exchange for making the PS3 a better console at the expense of the 360, be my guest...

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]Ok, so you think if they were a member of the BDA that they BDA would deny them a license? Hell, that they would deny them a license anyway? So in your world, Sony actively undercuts its revenue and also hoses all the other board members, and no one bats an eye? That would explain how Sony lost so much money this generation.lolfaqs

This is what you get for being a mere member.

"General membership provides access to specific information from Committee discussions. A general member can attend general meetings and seminars. They can participate in specific Regional Promotion Team activities and specific CC activities. Annual fee $3,000"

That's it. You don't get a guaranteed license. License applications still have to be voted on by the board members.

[QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

Again, you're avoiding the issue. The hypo is that Sony would not go to Microsoft to ask for such a license, because Microsoft would never grant it, especially since Microsoft doesn't even allow for Windows on the 360. Likewise, Microsoft will never go to Sony for a BD license to use on the 360, because they are direct competitors in the console market.

JLF1

It would be up to the BDA as a whole anyway, not just Sony, so MS would more than likely get a license if they wanted.

Okay seriously guys this is getting way off topic, this is about digital distribution not who owns what.spinecaton

And part of DD is that Microsoft is pushing hard for DD, because they will not go to Sony for a BD license.

[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="lolfaqs"]

Again, you're avoiding the issue. The hypo is that Sony would not go to Microsoft to ask for such a license, because Microsoft would never grant it, especially since Microsoft doesn't even allow for Windows on the 360. Likewise, Microsoft will never go to Sony for a BD license to use on the 360, because they are direct competitors in the console market.

BZSIN

It would be up to the BDA as a whole anyway, not just Sony, so MS would more than likely get a license if they wanted.

Not likely when one of the most influential companies on the BDA is Sony and other members include people like Apple, two companies that fellow board members aren't going to want to piss off.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] Why not? Businesses are about money. More Windows copies is more money for MS, especially since Windows makes MS piles and piles more money than the 360 ever could hope to make for MS.lolfaqs

Well, if you really want to believe that Microsoft will take money in exchange for making the PS3 a better console at the expense of the 360, be my guest...

I think that it's an aggressive move by Sony to deliver full-retail games over PSN. I've always like that idea from Sony. Both Xbox Live and the Playstation Network have the future to expand. But I still see more owners on a Microsoft's console taking advantage of digital distribution in the grand scheme of things. Xbox Live is considered one of the largest DD available through the internet and the potential of it could exceed outside the atmosphere of gaming in the future(ex. access Live films, TV, etc without an Xbox). Without full-retail games on Xbox Live, the Microsoft service will still produce more revenue. Considering the daily growth of Xbox Live, I'd say Microsoft can do better. The sad part about it is that the more it grows, the less Microsoft cares for HDD-less 360s.

They don't need to grant themselves a license. Sony makes money (as do the BDA) when they grant a license. In what world do you live that companies avert themselves to money?SpruceCaboose

Then why did you even bring up the ridiculous argument that Microsoft could get on that list if they wanted to?