Sony have confirmed their "network pass" program.

[QUOTE="garland51"]

Justified or not, the days of PSN being totally free for new and used games alike are coming to an end. I predicted this would happen when PS+ was announced a year ago. PS+ was step 1, this is step 2.KC_Hokie

I agree. I think that Cows should be prepared for Sony to most likely go the "Xbox Live Gold route" of paying for online play next gen. Sony can't just keep online play for free forever; they're bleeding money off of their online division dailyby offering online play for free. If they weren't, then they wouldn't need PSN+ at all to recuperate the costs.

"Xbox Live Gold route" is about placeing this:

between you internet connection and xbox and order you to pay even for accessing APIs that normaly are free for any device connected to internet. Online gaming that as good as Live can be free, Steam proffs that

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"] When you can buy COD for $55, play the campaign in one afternoon, and then sell the game for $30, your actual cost was only $25. Without a used market, the total cost would be $60. It's the selling aspect of the used market that is lucrative to gamers, not the buying.PurpleMan5000

It would seem to me that a company would give a preorder bonus to the location that sells the most used games. It would also seem logical to me that the reason Gamestop sells the most new games is because they offer trade-in credit toward the purchase of those new games. The used game market creates sales of new games, and it's impossible to prove whether it has a positive or negative effect on publishers and developers. In all honesty, the effect is probably negligible.

Price games better = problem solved. I'm sick of high prices this gen.

Price games better = problem solved. I'm sick of high prices this gen.

immortality20

Steam and PC FTW

For the first time in my life, I'm seeing consumers (gamers), actually championing publishers and developers for doing this.

FrozenLiquid

Oddly appropriate image:

Perhaps it's because of franchise development/sequelification and a more unified identity (Made by Sony vs. starring fifty actors, directed by that guy, produced by that gal), developing a want for our favourite developers to live that we're seeing this.

why did everyone think this thing was gonna be sonys pay to play?
Seriously after the whole PSN fiasco do people REALLY think sony is gonna be lie

"hey sorry guys we know the network was down for 68 days, and you've all had your month free BUT now were gonna charge for it"

I can't support this. It's pure greed. Sony, EA, THQ, etc have already been paid for that one copy of the game.

Like I've said before this is like a car manufacturer disabling some part of a car...say a radio when it is being re-sold, then charging a $1000 radio turn on fee. Just because they think the used car market is cutting into the new car market. If you don't pay it you don't have access to the full car.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

For the first time in my life, I'm seeing consumers (gamers), actually championing publishers and developers for doing this.

Technoweirdo

Oddly appropriate image:

(img)

Perhaps it's because of franchise development/sequelification and a more unified identity (Made by Sony vs. starring fifty actors, directed by that guy, produced by that gal), developing a want for our favourite developers to live that we're seeing this.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but the only reason video game publishers are having issues supporting themselves is because they throw exorbitant amounts of money at single productions for big bucks. Activision's business of closing down good game studios is the most vibrant example of this.

Game developers need to bring down the costs, and publishers need to be less risk averse (easier said than done, I'm a film producer myself :D). For example, I'm sure Bethesda could do without Patrick Stewart and Liam Neeson, and for all its glorious facial technology, L.A Noire didn't leave the imprint they probably thought it would; previous facial tech was just as convincing.

Essentially, it's only because of stupid business decisions that publishers are now trying to regulate video game sales. That's quite ridiculous, if you ask me.

This is the problem with adding online passes. it will just hurt themselfs! so many onine communitys die so fast already what do you think will happen to games that are not popular AND have an online pass? Plus maybe if devs didnt release all the games with a 60 dollar price tag. there is no way RDR or GTA4 or elderscrolls should cost as much as thor, vampire rain, or ODST. if they want to battle used game sells they should do it where you get something extra for buying it new! maybe so free dlc, or how about this lower the damn price of games.

as for the people saying oh you only save 5 bucks from gamestop, you have to take into account that if you have the edge card you save another 10% off used games. and most the time Alot of people wait for the buy two get one free deals. so you get 3 games for about 110 instead of paying 180 plus tax for 3 new games.

the fact is these companys are ripping us off left and right, both MS and sony do it. now devs are doing it.... im sorry but a 6 hour campaign is not worth 60 freaking bucks. why do console games cost so much more than pc games? ghost busters was like 30 or 40 for pc new but on consoles it was 60 dollars? porting a game over does not cost that much!

http://www.vg247.com/2011/07/06/sony-confirms-network-pass-program-for-ps3-titles/

It's only for select games and Resistance 3 will be the first. I had a tiny interest in this game but that's all gone as I won't be able to trade it in for decent money. These companies make millions so I don't sympathize with them in the slightest when their games are sold second hand.

[QUOTE="BigBoss255"]

http://www.vg247.com/2011/07/06/sony-confirms-network-pass-program-for-ps3-titles/

It's only for select games and Resistance 3 will be the first. I had a tiny interest in this game but that's all gone as I won't be able to trade it in for decent money. These companies make millions so I don't sympathize with them in the slightest when their games are sold second hand.

gamer620

These things mean nothing to me. As Wasdie mentioned, it's business 101 and being a Hermit, I have'nt had access to used games for a long time anyway.

Thats what we get when idiots buy used games from Gamestop just because they think they can save $5.

Kashiwaba

I can't support this. It's pure greed. Sony, EA, THQ, etc have already been paid for that one copy of the game.

Like I've said before this is like a car manufacturer disabling some part of a car...say a radio when it is being re-sold, then charging a $1000 radio turn on fee. Just because they think the used car market is cutting into the new car market. If you don't pay it you don't have access to the full car.

coasterguy65

[QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Like it or not, used game sales do bite into profits made by the developer and publishers. There is really no argument against that.

When you're having to spend more and more and more on development, you want to try to keep your margins as high as possible so you can stay competitive. So what if you make 50 million, if it costs you 45 million to make the game that only gives you an extra 5 million to play around with while the competition just made an extra 30 million to play around with. Odds are their game will be better next time and your going to lose market share.

Business 101. Something we don't see to much of in SWs.

I do buy used games and I will continue to buy used games for as long as I can. I can just see the reasons behind it.

Chris_Williams

If you were buying a used thats a lot cheaper than the new one for example like the used game is $40 while new is $60 then thats good because even after purchasing the friend code for $10 you still saved $10 but the problem is whn people buy used games from Gamestop/EBgames just because its $5 cheaper which happens a lot thats just too stupid.

[QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

Thats what we get when idiots buy used games from Gamestop just because they think they can save $5.

funsohng

This really made me laugh :oops:

[QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

I can't support this. It's pure greed. Sony, EA, THQ, etc have already been paid for that one copy of the game.

Like I've said before this is like a car manufacturer disabling some part of a car...say a radio when it is being re-sold, then charging a $1000 radio turn on fee. Just because they think the used car market is cutting into the new car market. If you don't pay it you don't have access to the full car.

tormentos

but like i said maybe if devs didnt rip us off from the start this wouldnt be a problem. most games SHOULD NOT be 60 dollars in the first place. if the new game was only 40 bucks this wouldnt be a problem. plus why is everyone acting likethis isso evil... every product gets resold and one complains about it. you can buy used movies, cars, computers, clothes, books, consoles, everything and you dont seem them out there crying about it. im sorry but games are over priced lower the price of video games and you wont have to worry about used game sales.

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="coasterguy65"]

I can't support this. It's pure greed. Sony, EA, THQ, etc have already been paid for that one copy of the game.

Like I've said before this is like a car manufacturer disabling some part of a car...say a radio when it is being re-sold, then charging a $1000 radio turn on fee. Just because they think the used car market is cutting into the new car market. If you don't pay it you don't have access to the full car.

mkfighter8

but like i said maybe if devs didnt rip us off from the start this wouldnt be a problem. most games SHOULD NOT be 60 dollars in the first place. if the new game was only 40 bucks this wouldnt be a problem. plus why is everyone acting likethis isso evil... every product gets resold and one complains about it. you can buy used movies, cars, computers, clothes, books, consoles, everything and you dont seem them out there crying about it. im sorry but games are over priced lower the price of video games and you wont have to worry about used game sales.

I support the developers. I really do. But after looking into this whole fiasco I've recently changed my mind. Before I was against shops like Gamestop doing what they do. I still am to an extent, but ultimately I'm now taking the side of the consumer. It is NOT OUR JOB to worry about where or how we buy a product. This is something that game companies must figure out and deal with.

Are they going about things in the correct manner? ABSOLUTELY NOT. In fact, there are times that, as much as I don't like Gamestop, these greedy devs/pubs make me want to purchase from them SPECIFICALLY so they aren't getting the money. I could care less about saving $5. My problem with devs/pubs is the way they go about raping the consumer and acting all innocent about it. DLC? DLC LOCKED ON DISC? Here's the solution:

IF ONE BUYS A NEW GAME, INCLUDE A CODE(FREE) THAT ALLOWS THE OWNER OF THE PRODUCT TO DOWNLOAD ALL DLC RELEASED WITHIN ONE YEAR, FREE OF CHARGE.

This would ultimately encourage people to buy new. Would the devs/pubs lose or make more money this way? That I'm not sure, but this whole used/new deal most certainly has two sides.

[QUOTE="mkfighter8"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"] Yeah and when you sold it to gamestop and gamestop sold it to another person you and gamestop stopped sony from selling a new copy of a game,see it this way,you already payed for Killzone 3 right.? You gave it on trade in,the store gave you $30 (at best) and they put the game as used for $55 dollars,now another Joe gamer enter the store and instead of getting a new copy of Killzone 3,he get the $5 dollar off used copy,Gamestop make a cool $25 dollar revenue out of it,and Sony got nothing because Joe gamer bough your used copy now enlarge this story by millions of used games. Yeah and you get million of used games sold in which developers don't get a cent.Heirren

but like i said maybe if devs didnt rip us off from the start this wouldnt be a problem. most games SHOULD NOT be 60 dollars in the first place. if the new game was only 40 bucks this wouldnt be a problem. plus why is everyone acting likethis isso evil... every product gets resold and one complains about it. you can buy used movies, cars, computers, clothes, books, consoles, everything and you dont seem them out there crying about it. im sorry but games are over priced lower the price of video games and you wont have to worry about used game sales.

I support the developers. I really do. But after looking into this whole fiasco I've recently changed my mind. Before I was against shops like Gamestop doing what they do. I still am to an extent, but ultimately I'm now taking the side of the consumer. It is NOT OUR JOB to worry about where or how we buy a product. This is something that game companies must figure out and deal with.

Are they going about things in the correct manner? ABSOLUTELY NOT. In fact, there are times that, as much as I don't like Gamestop, these greedy devs/pubs make me want to purchase from them SPECIFICALLY so they aren't getting the money. I could care less about saving $5. My problem with devs/pubs is the way they go about raping the consumer and acting all innocent about it. DLC? DLC LOCKED ON DISC? Here's the solution:

IF ONE BUYS A NEW GAME, INCLUDE A CODE(FREE) THAT ALLOWS THE OWNER OF THE PRODUCT TO DOWNLOAD ALL DLC RELEASED WITHIN ONE YEAR, FREE OF CHARGE.

This would ultimately encourage people to buy new. Would the devs/pubs lose or make more money this way? That I'm not sure, but this whole used/new deal most certainly has two sides.

I 100% agree with you! im sick and tired of all these devs/companys ripping us off!

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="mkfighter8"]

but like i said maybe if devs didnt rip us off from the start this wouldnt be a problem. most games SHOULD NOT be 60 dollars in the first place. if the new game was only 40 bucks this wouldnt be a problem. plus why is everyone acting likethis isso evil... every product gets resold and one complains about it. you can buy used movies, cars, computers, clothes, books, consoles, everything and you dont seem them out there crying about it. im sorry but games are over priced lower the price of video games and you wont have to worry about used game sales.

mkfighter8

I support the developers. I really do. But after looking into this whole fiasco I've recently changed my mind. Before I was against shops like Gamestop doing what they do. I still am to an extent, but ultimately I'm now taking the side of the consumer. It is NOT OUR JOB to worry about where or how we buy a product. This is something that game companies must figure out and deal with.

Are they going about things in the correct manner? ABSOLUTELY NOT. In fact, there are times that, as much as I don't like Gamestop, these greedy devs/pubs make me want to purchase from them SPECIFICALLY so they aren't getting the money. I could care less about saving $5. My problem with devs/pubs is the way they go about raping the consumer and acting all innocent about it. DLC? DLC LOCKED ON DISC? Here's the solution:

IF ONE BUYS A NEW GAME, INCLUDE A CODE(FREE) THAT ALLOWS THE OWNER OF THE PRODUCT TO DOWNLOAD ALL DLC RELEASED WITHIN ONE YEAR, FREE OF CHARGE.

This would ultimately encourage people to buy new. Would the devs/pubs lose or make more money this way? That I'm not sure, but this whole used/new deal most certainly has two sides.

I 100% agree with you! im sick and tired of all these devs/companys ripping us off!

Who says they are? It depends entirely on the game.. Take for instance the Mortal Kombat game.. There is already a huge selection, and not getting the DLC's isn't going to some how make you enjoy the game anyless.. Furthermore it was a game jam packed with features and content.. Many DLC's for like GTA, Borderlands etc etc.. Add new stuff to a already long game that was worth the money if you spent your time on it.

I support the developers. I really do. But after looking into this whole fiasco I've recently changed my mind. Before I was against shops like Gamestop doing what they do. I still am to an extent, but ultimately I'm now taking the side of the consumer. It is NOT OUR JOB to worry about where or how we buy a product. This is something that game companies must figure out and deal with.

Are they going about things in the correct manner? ABSOLUTELY NOT. In fact, there are times that, as much as I don't like Gamestop, these greedy devs/pubs make me want to purchase from them SPECIFICALLY so they aren't getting the money. I could care less about saving $5. My problem with devs/pubs is the way they go about raping the consumer and acting all innocent about it. DLC? DLC LOCKED ON DISC? Here's the solution:

IF ONE BUYS A NEW GAME, INCLUDE A CODE(FREE) THAT ALLOWS THE OWNER OF THE PRODUCT TO DOWNLOAD ALL DLC RELEASED WITHIN ONE YEAR, FREE OF CHARGE.

This would ultimately encourage people to buy new. Would the devs/pubs lose or make more money this way? That I'm not sure, but this whole used/new deal most certainly has two sides.

Heirren

Activision said this about steps to combat used games:

"We are still evaluating various possibilities for greater participation in the used-games business. What's been working the best so far is providing additional content and therefore limiting the supply to used games."

[QUOTE="Technoweirdo"]

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

For the first time in my life, I'm seeing consumers (gamers), actually championing publishers and developers for doing this.

FrozenLiquid

Oddly appropriate image:

(img)

Perhaps it's because of franchise development/sequelification and a more unified identity (Made by Sony vs. starring fifty actors, directed by that guy, produced by that gal), developing a want for our favourite developers to live that we're seeing this.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but the only reason video game publishers are having issues supporting themselves is because they throw exorbitant amounts of money at single productions for big bucks. Activision's business of closing down good game studios is the most vibrant example of this.

Game developers need to bring down the costs, and publishers need to be less risk averse (easier said than done, I'm a film producer myself :D). For example, I'm sure Bethesda could do without Patrick Stewart and Liam Neeson, and for all its glorious facial technology, L.A Noire didn't leave the imprint they probably thought it would; previous facial tech was just as convincing.

Essentially, it's only because of stupid business decisions that publishers are now trying to regulate video game sales. That's quite ridiculous, if you ask me.

Portion quoted: People fighting against their own rights.
Image: Fry not giving a damn about the EyePhone's quality.
After: Trying to figure out why the Hell we're not caring about our rights.

Explaining jokes (the first part combined with the second) suuuuucks. >.>

------

True, the industry spends a lot more than necessary. Honestly never even thought about it until now. Just focused on the harm that the used industry supposedly does.

I don't like these unnecessary expenditures being passed onto me, but I swear that's why we raised game prices by $10USD on average (Yay, being a sheep?) in the first place. That, and making games look damn good takes time and money. :P Charging for online passes now is pushing it though. >.>

Y'know, it wouldn't surprise me if publishers had a talk about raising the price of games by another $5-10. Certainly the easier option than better business management, but considering we're already complaining about high game prices, I think they decided against it and found the next easiest option; the lesser of two consumer evils.

Thats what we get when idiots buy used games from Gamestop just because they think they can save $5.

Kashiwaba

gamestop is not a bad store........... sorry i have to defend it i work there lol

Not a big deal for me since i dont even buy used games

With how much hostility this forum gets agianst pirate, you would think SW would understand why this is the current trend.. Used game industry takes a huge chunk of profits and its actually FAR more measurable than anythign coming close to piracy. Especially when places like Gamestop are literally only selling used versions of the game for $5 cheaper often times than the new one.sSubZerOo

In what way? With piracy, only one (sometimes none) copy of a game is purchased and then distributed thousands of times. With used games, each game is purchased. The impact on the industry by used games is negligible at best.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

[QUOTE="Technoweirdo"]

Oddly appropriate image:

(img)

Perhaps it's because of franchise development/sequelification and a more unified identity (Made by Sony vs. starring fifty actors, directed by that guy, produced by that gal), developing a want for our favourite developers to live that we're seeing this.

Technoweirdo

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but the only reason video game publishers are having issues supporting themselves is because they throw exorbitant amounts of money at single productions for big bucks. Activision's business of closing down good game studios is the most vibrant example of this.

Game developers need to bring down the costs, and publishers need to be less risk averse (easier said than done, I'm a film producer myself :D). For example, I'm sure Bethesda could do without Patrick Stewart and Liam Neeson, and for all its glorious facial technology, L.A Noire didn't leave the imprint they probably thought it would; previous facial tech was just as convincing.

Essentially, it's only because of stupid business decisions that publishers are now trying to regulate video game sales. That's quite ridiculous, if you ask me.

Portion quoted: People fighting against their own rights.
Image: Fry not giving a damn about the EyePhone's quality.
After: Trying to figure out why the Hell we're not caring about our rights.

Explaining jokes (the first part combined with the second) suuuuucks. >.>

------

True, the industry spends a lot more than necessary. Honestly never even thought about it until now. Just focused on the harm that the used industry supposedly does.

I don't like these unnecessary expenditures being passed onto me, but I swear that's why we raised game prices by $10USD on average (Yay, being a sheep?) in the first place. That, and making games look damn good takes time and money. :P Charging for online passes now is pushing it though. >.>

Y'know, it wouldn't surprise me if publishers had a talk about raising the price of games by another $5-10. Certainly the easier option than better business management, but considering we're already complaining about high game prices, I think they decided against it and found the next easiest option; the lesser of two consumer evils.

I would prefer raised prices to this, honestly.

Buying used games is more or less piracy.hexashadow13

I don't buy used games but that is probably the most idiotic thing I've read in SW for quite some time. Unlike piracy, buying used games is LEGAL. Thats one little detail you missed in your ridiculous statement.

Also, if somebody wants to sell THEIR OWN property to someone else, they have every right to do that. Likewise, if I want to buy a game from someone else, I should be able to.

With your logic, where do we stop? Should we be stopped from selling anything we buy because it does not "profit the developer" or manufacturer? This is lunacy.

It's a form of greed, bro. In no way are developers suffering due to the used market.

garland51

Not a big deal, just buy it new.

hanslacher54

[QUOTE="hanslacher54"]

Not a big deal, just buy it new.

Bigboi500

I'm surprised so many sony fans are defending this, especially in regard to rentals. It doesn't seem right to me.

I'm surprised so many sony fans are defending this, especially in regard to rentals. It doesn't seem right to me.

meatgrinderz

Beyond that I have little sympathy for people buying used games actually having to contribute to the developers who make the games and publishers who invest in them and maintain services for them. Nor the merchants profiting from it.

Thats what we get when idiots buy used games from Gamestop just because they think they can save $5.

Kashiwaba

I'm sorry, people are what now that they buy used games? Idiots you said?

What about those of us that still look for older-gen games used to play on our N64 or GC or what have you? Are we idiots for doing that too?

While I typically buy games new, there is no reason why consumers should be punished for not buying new, nor is there a reason why games should lock content like this to begin with.

There is a second hand market for everything, but somehow it's bad for games?

I've got no sympathy for any publisher that incorporates this sort of nonsense. Does it affect everyone? No. But the principles behind are screwed up and I hate when apologistsfor crap like thisact like gamers that don't buy new are somehow criminals. Or your words, "idiots."

While I typically buy games new, there is no reason why consumers should be punished for not buying new, nor is there a reason why games should lock content like this to begin with.

There is a second hand market for everything, but somehow it's bad for games?

NeonNinja

Gamestop makes $250 million in profit on used game sales annually, none of which contributes to the actual creative gaming industry.

I do, however, think there are probably better ways to go about incentivising new game purchases.

[QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

Thats what we get when idiots buy used games from Gamestop just because they think they can save $5.

NeonNinja

I'm sorry, people are what now that they buy used games? Idiots you said?

What about those of us that still look for older-gen games used to play on our N64 or GC or what have you? Are we idiots for doing that too?

While I typically buy games new, there is no reason why consumers should be punished for not buying new, nor is there a reason why games should lock content like this to begin with.

There is a second hand market for everything, but somehow it's bad for games?

I've got no sympathy for any publisher that incorporates this sort of nonsense. Does it affect everyone? No. But the principles behind are screwed up and I hate when apologistsfor crap like thisact like gamers that don't buy new are somehow criminals. Or your words, "idiots."

[QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

Thats what we get when idiots buy used games from Gamestop just because they think they can save $5.

NeonNinja

I'm sorry, people are what now that they buy used games? Idiots you said?

What about those of us that still look for older-gen games used to play on our N64 or GC or what have you? Are we idiots for doing that too?

While I typically buy games new, there is no reason why consumers should be punished for not buying new, nor is there a reason why games should lock content like this to begin with.

There is a second hand market for everything, but somehow it's bad for games?

I've got no sympathy for any publisher that incorporates this sort of nonsense. Does it affect everyone? No. But the principles behind are screwed up and I hate when apologistsfor crap like thisact like gamers that don't buy new are somehow criminals. Or your words, "idiots."

Word.

but like i said maybe if devs didnt rip us off from the start this wouldnt be a problem. most games SHOULD NOT be 60 dollars in the first place. if the new game was only 40 bucks this wouldnt be a problem. plus why is everyone acting likethis isso evil... every product gets resold and one complains about it. you can buy used movies, cars, computers, clothes, books, consoles, everything and you dont seem them out there crying about it. im sorry but games are over priced lower the price of video games and you wont have to worry about used game sales.mkfighter8

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]Your link is largely about mobile gaming revenues. In no way does it corroborate this statement.garland51

It's about the gaming industry as a whole, not just mobile gaming.

It in no way corroborates the statement that a used game market doesn't impact new game sales.

It's akin to using the same link to say that piracy also doesn't impact game sales, because look it's a $74 billion dollar industry.

US hardware and (new) software revenues combined grew from 2006 - 2008, but have been in decline since, excluding PC software. The Japanese market has been in similar decline. As has the UK market. That in itself doesn't indicate an impact of used game sales, but it does show the industry isn't really coming up roses currently.

They need to adopt a better model and pricing structure in general.

gamestop is not a bad store........... sorry i have to defend it i work there lolMario1331

While I don't hate this practice (since a lot of the times used games are sold at an expensive price, heck maybe with this, retailers will be forced to sell used games way cheaper too), but I do wonder at the amount of slack retailers get here.

It'd be funny if retailers banded together and went 'F this, if you want to take away our used games profits, you sell your games through your own shops/service'. You gotta admit, the retailers do provide an entry to consumers.

Heck if I was at Activition, I'd consider some sort of offer to retailers where I didn't implement an online pass and they promoted (or stocked) my games (say MW3) a lot more in store over EA games (say BF3). I dunno if that's legal or if it would work, but hey people seem to think over-advertising works.

Totally agree. The only ones who would defend this practice of what developers does are morons who loved being ripped off.garland51

I could careless the only used games i buy are RPGs/Action advanture games.

Which i feel are not worth 60 bucks. As for MP games i only

care about 4 Halo, Gears, COD, BF which i buy at full price anyway.