Sony is in violation of bait and switch marketing

So does this remove Linux altogether or just take out the Install Other OS option? So would those already with Linux be able to use it?

people are just using ANYTHING for an excuse to flame sony, and if anyone thinks this will affect sony in anyway is delusional. no one goes to the story and say "yay im going to get a PS3 so i can install a linux on it, cant wait!!!!!", LenGen

So when people here say that they DO use the PS3 for Linux, that that WAS one of their factors in deciding to get a PS3 instead of another console, and that this decision by Sony DOES affect them, you're flat out dismissing them as liars?

Is that what you're saying?

At least many people here are arguing that this was a necessary decision while not even denying that paying customers ended up getting ****ed. If you're saying that the supposedly affected people are just plain lying their asses off, then that's no different than covering your ears and burying your head in the sand.

No one's making you download the firmware updates.

Gxgear

Right.

They also can't log onto PSN. And these kinds of updates are frequently imbedded in new games. Meaning that you can't play new games on a game console unless you agree to the update.

So I don't see how that really helps. If they install the updates, that disables a certain feature of their console. If they DON'T install the update, that disables a DIFFERENT feature of their console. Either way, they're getting ****ed.

So does this remove Linux altogether or just take out the Install Other OS option? So would those already with Linux be able to use it?

AndyAlfredo

To everyone complaining about pirates think of it this way. In this world all we care about is me, me and me. its like if you found a hacked cash machine and you get 10,000 free you wouldn't go in the bank and tell them. its just the way of life and its all about me. so i dont blame them they find an exploit they use it just like glitches in games.

Would a company chose to lose millions in game sales because someone installed a OS that allowed home-brew games or would it remove the feature? The console it self has made Sony lose thousands of dollars it's only fair that we pay legitimately for our game.GeneralHawx

This punishes people who DO pay legitimately for their game.

Piracy is almost inevitable. Any time a company engages in anti-piracy measures, they should damn well expect that at some point someone is going to beat it. That's the nature of the industry. If they can't deal with that without screwing over the legitimate buyers, then the hell with them. If they can't keep Feature A from being exploited in such a way as to allow the possibility of piracy, then they never should have included Feature A to begin with.

Here's the thing...is it better to lose millions of dollars, or millions of customers? If you run a restaurant and food costs are too high, there are all sorts of ways you can cut costs. But at a certain point, that may affect the quality of the food, in which case no one wants to eat at your restaurant and your reputation precedes you. Sometimes, you've just gotta bite the bullet and take the losses.

But again, my question...if this update really affects "hardly anyone" as some people are saying, and if this update is really and truly necessary, then what is Sony doing to make things right for the very small percentage of people who ARE getting screwed? Is Sony trying to make it up to them in some way? Or is Sony just like, "blah, **** em, we make enough money that we don't need em"?

Well it not going to effect me obviously since the Slim didn't have Linux support from the start.

Was this Linux support really that important? I don't see how this is a big deal, especially since Sony seem to have a good reason to get rid of it.

I'm just going to say that the ignorance going on in this thread is of epic proportions.

Also, this is in the level of people defending Microsoft for charging for online. Companies blow it sometimes and this time Sony blew it completely and I can't bring myself to defend them. Many people here know that my posting habits are usually in favor of Sony because I thought they were a company to be trusted. Well with this I lost a great deal of trust for them.

[QUOTE="Gxgear"]

No one's making you download the firmware updates.

MrGeezer

Right.

They also can't log onto PSN. And these kinds of updates are frequently imbedded in new games. Meaning that you can't play new games on a game console unless you agree to the update.

So I don't see how that really helps. If they install the updates, that disables a certain feature of their console. If they DON'T install the update, that disables a DIFFERENT feature of their console. Either way, they're getting ****ed.

Hmm, doesn't that make the disabling of Linux seem trivial? Exactly my point.

I also don't see how complaining about a feature that nobody uses accomplishes anything either. If it's just arguing about the principles, System Wars is probably the wrong place to bring it up; only going to end up as ammunition for the fanboys as we've seen here.

Also pretty sure the S.S. Integrity has long sailed for all 3 companies, not just Sony.

I'm just going to say that the ignorance going on in this thread is of epic proportions.

Also, this is in the level of people defending Microsoft for charging for online. Companies blow it sometimes and this time Sony blew it completely and I can't bring myself to defend them. Many people here know that my posting habits are usually in favor of Sony because I thought they were a company to be trusted. Well with this I lost a great deal of trust for them.

RedruM_I

On the note of people using Linux on the ps3 your a very small majority of the user base.As someone decided to take a crack at hacking the console all your blame should really be aimed at him as Sony's only trying to keep the system secure if the PS3 was to become piratable in a lot of markets the PS3 might start going a little more **** up in terms of software sales.Sony's really only trying to cover their behinds as its mainly to do with a security issue.

And of all the people i personally know they have their PC for doing that kinda stuff and their PS3 is for playing games.Anyway it was limited in a sense as there were hypervisors on the system so imo it didnt actually make a whole lot of sense to install linux unless it were for some silly bragging right.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="Gxgear"]

No one's making you download the firmware updates.

Gxgear

Right.

They also can't log onto PSN. And these kinds of updates are frequently imbedded in new games. Meaning that you can't play new games on a game console unless you agree to the update.

So I don't see how that really helps. If they install the updates, that disables a certain feature of their console. If they DON'T install the update, that disables a DIFFERENT feature of their console. Either way, they're getting ****ed.

Hmm, doesn't that make the disabling of Linux seem trivial? Exactly my point.

I also don't see how complaining about a feature that nobody uses accomplishes anything either. If it's just arguing about the principles, System Wars is probably the wrong place to bring it up; only going to end up as ammunition for the fanboys as we've seen here.

Also pretty sure the S.S. Integrity has long sailed for all 3 companies, not just Sony.

Here's the thing...people can get GAMES on the 360 or the Wii. NO ONE needs a ****ing PS3 to play games.

However, some people DID choose a PS3 over the competetion (or in addition to the competition) for various reason. For some people, OtherOS was that reason. Now, after those people have invested their money in PS3, Sony takes away what got them to invest money in a PS3. PS3 is NOT the only game in town.

And again with the "nobody cares about that feature". People have already said that they care about it and that they use it. What, are you calling all of them liars? I distinctly remember Sony using this as a selling point in the earliest days of the PS3, and people claim to care about this feature. Yes, people use this feature. Not me, but others, and they have a very serious and legitimate complaint here. To say that they DON'T have a legitimate complaint just because they are in the MINORITY of PS3 users is the exact same thing that has ALWAYS led people to ignore the legitimate complaints of a minority group.

Either the people who say that this matters to them are LYING, or it is OKAY for corporations to screw their customers as long as those customers are minorities. Which exactly are you suggesting here?

And I personally weep when I see sentiments which imply stuff like "the others are bad too, so what's the difference?" As in, why should we be concerned about Sony when Microsoft does equally insidious stuff?

Well...How about boycotting Microsoft and Nintendo as well? We're not talking about a staple crop, we're talking about ****ING VIDEOGAMES. Nobody ****ing needs them. If Sony's practices are just a sign of the state of the industry, if the entire industry has become filled with this kind of ****, then maybe it's time for another videogame crash. Maybe people need to stop playing videogames until there are some industry-wide changes for the better. Because goddamnit, we're not talking about crack cocaine here. People do not NEED this ****, and the second that this industry starts ****ing over its customers who voluntarily shell out hundreds of dollars for expensive equipment is the same second that you'd expect non-insane people to buy a pair of running shoes or buy a ****ing cheap-ass basketball. What the **** has happened to us that we feel like we need to put up with these kinds of business practices in order to be entertained? Everywhere I look, someone either has some dumbass piece of **** stuck into their ear, or can't find any other recreational (and non-sexual) social activity that doesn't revolve around some kind of expensive-ass technology. Only a mere fifteen years ago, I didn't have ANY of that ****, certainly not in a level as advanced as today. I wasn't longing for the days of iPhones, because **** that ****. We don't need that ****, it's a luxury. And the second that it starts pissing us off is the second that we need to kick that **** into a dumpster. If Sony is really no different than all the other console makers, then maybe this whole industry needs to ****ing die until it starts making some changes.

What the hell difference does it make if the other console makers do similarly bad stuff? I don't own a Nintendo Wii, and I threw my X-Box 360 into a ****ing dumpster. I'm not buying those consoles any more either, and I sure as hell don't need a ****ing PS3.

[QUOTE="88mphSlayer"]

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"] How did they charge for this feature? You can use your PS3 for skeet shooting, it doesn't mean you paid for that feature. :lol: Hahadouken

fail

skeet shooting isn't an advertised feature of a PS3

besides, what's the difference between this and say if Sony locked users from being able to playback downloaded music and videos, and that the only stuff you could playback was stuff bought from their store? would it be alright then too?

I'm just going to say that the ignorance going on in this thread is of epic proportions.

Also, this is in the level of people defending Microsoft for charging for online. Companies blow it sometimes and this time Sony blew it completely and I can't bring myself to defend them. Many people here know that my posting habits are usually in favor of Sony because I thought they were a company to be trusted. Well with this I lost a great deal of trust for them.

RedruM_I

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"][QUOTE="88mphSlayer"]

fail

skeet shooting isn't an advertised feature of a PS3

besides, what's the difference between this and say if Sony locked users from being able to playback downloaded music and videos, and that the only stuff you could playback was stuff bought from their store? would it be alright then too?

delta3074

How is using 3rd party HDD's preventing piracy again? :S

I'll make you a bet that not all PS3 fanboys went and bashed Microsoft as well. I would consider myself pro PS3 than pro Xbox 360 - I didn't even care about what happened to the console. So I would like it if you didn't say "the cows", stick to "some of the cows". I will also bet that, just like in this situation, you had people who were defending Microsoft AND attacking them.

First off the original point of the hack (and only hack right now) is only ultimatly gain accessibility to the other cores of the cell and the RSX while in OtherOS mode (neither of which have been utilized yet.) GeoHotz had nothing to do with piracy (this just could have been the intro to different hackers pirating)

Also I would like see some sort of advertisement that said it had other OS, I just looked at the back of the box (60gb) and it said nothing about it. I haven't looked threw this whole thread yet, but theres no proof that they actually 'advertised' the fact that it had OtherOS.

You want Linux support? Don't upgrade your PS3 then, otherwise they are not forcing you to do anything but remove a possible backdoor to piracy that they have been sucessfull in preventing for the most part this generation. I agree it sucks for Linux users, but perhaps blame should be placed not soley on Sony's shoulders for this issue than the people attempting to compromise the system. Takes one bad apple to ruin the whole bunch philosophy. Jynxzor

Looks like the Army are going to have to return their PS3's to Walmart.

Looks like the Army are going to have to return their PS3's to Walmart.

BigBoss154

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]You want Linux support? Don't upgrade your PS3 then, otherwise they are not forcing you to do anything but remove a possible backdoor to piracy that they have been sucessfull in preventing for the most part this generation. I agree it sucks for Linux users, but perhaps blame should be placed not soley on Sony's shoulders for this issue than the people attempting to compromise the system. Takes one bad apple to ruin the whole bunch philosophy. locopatho

[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="Jynxzor"]You want Linux support? Don't upgrade your PS3 then, otherwise they are not forcing you to do anything but remove a possible backdoor to piracy that they have been sucessfull in preventing for the most part this generation. I agree it sucks for Linux users, but perhaps blame should be placed not soley on Sony's shoulders for this issue than the people attempting to compromise the system. Takes one bad apple to ruin the whole bunch philosophy. PandaBear86

People use the Linux and "teh powah of the cell" to crunch numbers. RAM and the GPU are irrelevent. But your right, if you're using it for math operations you probably wouldn't care about being eventually locked out of PSN.

The firmware update is optional, but both PSN and Linux were advertised for the PS3. If you update (for a future firmware), you lose one feature and if you don't, you lose the other. Sony is pretty much forcing you to lose a feature.

[QUOTE="BigBoss154"]

Looks like the Army are going to have to return their PS3's to Walmart.

PandaBear86

That's what you think...

Why would anybody want to use their PS3 for Linux anyway?

http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

From the link:

There is more to the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) computer entertainment system than you may have assumed. In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3™ system to run the Linux operating system.

By installing the Linux operating system, you can use the PS3™ system not only as an entry-level personal computer with hundreds of familiar applications for home and office use, but also as a complete development environment for the Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell/B.E.).

That sure as hell sounds as advertisement to me.

So, Redrum, have your opinion of Sony and MS changed? or is everything now a level playing field.

So, Redrum, have your opinion of Sony and MS changed? or is everything now a level playing field.

siddhu33

[QUOTE="RedruM_I"]

I'm just going to say that the ignorance going on in this thread is of epic proportions.

Also, this is in the level of people defending Microsoft for charging for online. Companies blow it sometimes and this time Sony blew it completely and I can't bring myself to defend them. Many people here know that my posting habits are usually in favor of Sony because I thought they were a company to be trusted. Well with this I lost a great deal of trust for them.

lantus

cows aare hypocrites, MS didn't advertise that you could use 3rd party accessories for the 360, yet when thwy banned a million xbox 360's to stop people using 3rd party HDD's and memory cards to PREVENT PIRACY, the cows went nuts and bashed the hell out of MS, now they are defending SONY, apparently MS are not allowed to modify there hardware to prevent piracy, but somehow SONY is.go figure, MS where out of order then and SONY are out of order now, end of.delta3074

Basically it comes down to this. Did they ever advertise it as having Linux? If so, which I believe they did in their it only does everything commercials, Sony better prepare to kiss away millionsshadow8585

[QUOTE="shadow8585"]Basically it comes down to this. Did they ever advertise it as having Linux? If so, which I believe they did in their it only does everything commercials, Sony better prepare to kiss away millionsHahadouken

It wouldn't make sense for that to appear on the "It only does everything" adds since those came with the Slim and that feature was scrapped from the Slim models.

The difference is that they said this when asked about the feature on older models.

"Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases." - Sony's Geoff Levand

And advertisement can come in many ways like in the link I posted some posts back.

[QUOTE="lantus"][QUOTE="RedruM_I"]

I'm just going to say that the ignorance going on in this thread is of epic proportions.

Also, this is in the level of people defending Microsoft for charging for online. Companies blow it sometimes and this time Sony blew it completely and I can't bring myself to defend them. Many people here know that my posting habits are usually in favor of Sony because I thought they were a company to be trusted. Well with this I lost a great deal of trust for them.

shadow8585

[QUOTE="88mphSlayer"]

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"] How did they charge for this feature? You can use your PS3 for skeet shooting, it doesn't mean you paid for that feature. :lol: Hahadouken

fail

skeet shooting isn't an advertised feature of a PS3

besides, what's the difference between this and say if Sony locked users from being able to playback downloaded music and videos, and that the only stuff you could playback was stuff bought from their store? would it be alright then too?

there was no *literal* advertisement as there's no place in mainstream audiences to advertise something like this

but it was featured in articles and was the main premise behind all of those cell-based supercomputers, which Sony touted a lot in order to show off the processing power of the Cell... without the ability to install another OS, all of those articles and Cell-processor boasts amount to nothing

and it was that kind of stuff that tech-heads flock to

either way tho, you didn't answer my question: if Sony locked out all multi-media except PSN bought-products, would it be alright then too?

Where is this advertisement?Hahadouken

[QUOTE="GeneralHawx"]Would a company chose to lose millions in game sales because someone installed a OS that allowed home-brew games or would it remove the feature? The console it self has made Sony lose thousands of dollars it's only fair that we pay legitimately for our game.MrGeezer

This punishes people who DO pay legitimately for their game.

Piracy is almost inevitable. Any time a company engages in anti-piracy measures, they should damn well expect that at some point someone is going to beat it. That's the nature of the industry. If they can't deal with that without screwing over the legitimate buyers, then the hell with them. If they can't keep Feature A from being exploited in such a way as to allow the possibility of piracy, then they never should have included Feature A to begin with.

Here's the thing...is it better to lose millions of dollars, or millions of customers? If you run a restaurant and food costs are too high, there are all sorts of ways you can cut costs. But at a certain point, that may affect the quality of the food, in which case no one wants to eat at your restaurant and your reputation precedes you. Sometimes, you've just gotta bite the bullet and take the losses.

But again, my question...if this update really affects "hardly anyone" as some people are saying, and if this update is really and truly necessary, then what is Sony doing to make things right for the very small percentage of people who ARE getting screwed? Is Sony trying to make it up to them in some way? Or is Sony just like, "blah, **** em, we make enough money that we don't need em"?

[QUOTE="mgs_freak91"][QUOTE="Origami_Kill3r"]I bought a ps3 for 600 bucks which on the box said it supported installing other OS. By taking this away sony is in violation of bait and switch marketing. I dont care if you dont use it others do and sony has no right to take it away. Many ppl on the official ps forums and blog are raging and are threating legal action. I really hope sony gets brought to court. You slim owners dont understand what its like to pay double getting extra features just so sony can come along and take them away reducing your products functions to the cheaper versions. Im not the only one http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/28/ps3-firmware-v3-21-update/comment-page-24/#comments What other psn users have to say: Just FYI, the TOS does not give Sony free reign to gimp a console after it has been purchased. 1) No one agrees to them before actually making the console purchase, so the advertised feature set is what is understood to be the bargained-for consideration, despite what a EULA says after the fact. 2) EULAs are always highly suspect as, again, they are language which the seller generally tries to impose after the transaction has already been made, the seller has 100% of the bargaining power in determining what goes in to a EULA, and courts generally realize that no one really reads such boilerplate terms anyway.RedruM_I

Those word was made before GeoHot came and put everthing upside down for Other OS. Sony don't do this to make you bad, they had no other choose or left PS3 on dirty hands of piracy, PSP already made them bad press on that

I was going to buy a PS3 for Linux, but NO! Sony had to take it away. This is a dangerous precedent.