Sony Is Taking This Online Pass Thing To Far

Used sales don't hurt them half as much as they **** on about it, the exact same thing that happened to the music industry is happening here and that is the greedy fat executives want more money, and they will squeeze it from us anyway they can even if it does ultimately end up hurting their industry. The games market is worth a fortune why else go to all this trouble? besides which whether you agree with used game sales or not a lot of people are likely to end up unemployed if this works all to line the already overfilled pockets of executives for companies like EA and Vivendi... (I buy new anyway but at least I made that decision myself).

[QUOTE="Foulcry"]

To AmnesiaHaze - Can't do that they aren't responsible after the game is traded in or sold from the original owner.It's in that fine print that everyone doesn't read. They aren't selling a stripped down product. Your choosing to buy a stripped down product because your too cheap to buy a new copy. How do you people expect companies to make the games we love without money? In order to make more games they need our money in return and they aren't getting that buy losing millions to Gamestop on trade in's and used copies. Gamestop makes the profit not the companies. I think you all deserve what you got. No Offense.

I'm on the same team.

I don't get some of the responses surrounding this issue.

These companies like making money. This is an entertainment medium that doesn't receive the same benefits as movies, or music. There's no 3-6 month showing in theatres, or concerts, or licenses, and the like. 99% of game companies make 100% of their money off game sales alone, and that's it. There's only a select few like Bungie, and Nintendo who can boast that they've got franchises that branch from gaming, and into things like toys/clothes/tv shows, etc.

These companies need our support to make these games. What's with people saying they don't care for the well-being of these companies? You guys play their games!!!!

There's really almost no room for someone to complain about this issue. If you've bought new your whole life then nothing changes. If you've been buying used then you've just been helping to keep companies in the red. Don't complain that the value of your used product finally decreased to match the price.

I'm 110% on the side of the developers on this issue.

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

[QUOTE="Foulcry"]

To AmnesiaHaze - Can't do that they aren't responsible after the game is traded in or sold from the original owner.It's in that fine print that everyone doesn't read. They aren't selling a stripped down product. Your choosing to buy a stripped down product because your too cheap to buy a new copy. How do you people expect companies to make the games we love without money? In order to make more games they need our money in return and they aren't getting that buy losing millions to Gamestop on trade in's and used copies. Gamestop makes the profit not the companies. I think you all deserve what you got. No Offense.

AmnesiaHaze

I'm on the same team.

I don't get some of the responses surrounding this issue.

These companies like making money. This is an entertainment medium that doesn't receive the same benefits as movies, or music. There's no 3-6 month showing in theatres, or concerts, or licenses, and the like. 99% of game companies make 100% of their money off game sales alone, and that's it. There's only a select few like Bungie, and Nintendo who can boast that they've got franchises that branch from gaming, and into things like toys/clothes/tv shows, etc.

These companies need our support to make these games. What's with people saying they don't care for the well-being of these companies? You guys play their games!!!!

There's really almost no room for someone to complain about this issue. If you've bought new your whole life then nothing changes. If you've been buying used then you've just been helping to keep companies in the red. Don't complain that the value of your used product finally decreased to match the price.

I'm 110% on the side of the developers on this issue.

But who says the games won't be connected to your PSN account?

It's just like how if I buy a game over Steam I can't put it on multiple Steam accounts, or how if I was to pay $50 a year for Xbox Live I could not make as many Xbox Live accounts as I wished.

These companies are experimenting with ways on how to not get screwed over.

Someday I'm sure there'll be a more unified service. I'm sure someday there'll be a download service where you can register your games, and be able to download them across all your systems to your registered accounts.

That won't happen overnight though. There's still a piracy issue, and the used game issue. Neither is going to be solved without the support of gamers.

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

[QUOTE="Foulcry"]

To AmnesiaHaze - Can't do that they aren't responsible after the game is traded in or sold from the original owner.It's in that fine print that everyone doesn't read. They aren't selling a stripped down product. Your choosing to buy a stripped down product because your too cheap to buy a new copy. How do you people expect companies to make the games we love without money? In order to make more games they need our money in return and they aren't getting that buy losing millions to Gamestop on trade in's and used copies. Gamestop makes the profit not the companies. I think you all deserve what you got. No Offense.

AmnesiaHaze

I'm on the same team.

I don't get some of the responses surrounding this issue.

These companies like making money. This is an entertainment medium that doesn't receive the same benefits as movies, or music. There's no 3-6 month showing in theatres, or concerts, or licenses, and the like. 99% of game companies make 100% of their money off game sales alone, and that's it. There's only a select few like Bungie, and Nintendo who can boast that they've got franchises that branch from gaming, and into things like toys/clothes/tv shows, etc.

These companies need our support to make these games. What's with people saying they don't care for the well-being of these companies? You guys play their games!!!!

There's really almost no room for someone to complain about this issue. If you've bought new your whole life then nothing changes. If you've been buying used then you've just been helping to keep companies in the red. Don't complain that the value of your used product finally decreased to match the price.

I'm 110% on the side of the developers on this issue.

If this online pass is like DLC you just need to have same PSN account on both and using that one buy online pass and on another just download using download list, done! Never heared about those DLC tricks on PSN? :P

I just saw today's PSN update and i noticed the PSN of Mod Nation Racers for PSP is $29.99. But if you buy it used or someone lends itto uto borrow or keep, the new owner must pay $15 to access the online feature. No matter how u spin it considering its $29.99 new, thats just wrong.

I mean lets assume Gamestop will charge $24.99 and then add the $15 which comes to $45 + tax which is more than the actual game new.

Is Sony, EA, THq, bulling customers to buy it new?

PSP107

Maybe Gamestop should lower their used game prices.

in the uk games are reduced in price so fast (online), that it's not even worth going used anymore. older games like madworld, halo wars or banjo nuts and bolts etc. are all floating around for well under £10 new.

Why is everyone so upset about this? I mean lets be honest if it is a multiplayer game that you are buying I doubt that you will just be purchasing it for online play only, why do I say this? Well A.) By the time it got down to a reasonable used price I doubt anyone is really playing it as much, B.) Usually if it is a good game or if it is fairly new, the price you are paying for it used is practically the same price new. With that being said what is the issue with just buying it new? Most of all DLC that comes out you have to pay for anyways unless you wait down the line and eventually it is free. People who are getting upset about this stuff makes no sense, don't be cheap and spend the extra 5-6 bucks and buy it new.

Why is everyone so upset about this? I mean lets be honest if it is a multiplayer game that you are buying I doubt that you will just be purchasing it for online play only, why do I say this? Well A.) By the time it got down to a reasonable used price I doubt anyone is really playing it as much, B.) Usually if it is a good game or if it is fairly new, the price you are paying for it used is practically the same price new. With that being said what is the issue with just buying it new? Most of all DLC that comes out you have to pay for anyways unless you wait down the line and eventually it is free. People who are getting upset about this stuff makes no sense, don't be cheap and spend the extra 5-6 bucks and buy it new.

xscrapzx

I'm sympathetic to game makers.

Few industries have to deal with distribution of their goods used on this scale. People point to durable goods like cars, but that is soooo bogus. Through lending and re-selling a game can go through a dozen hands in the first couple of months, and each of those hands have no use for it once they've had their turn, how in any way does that relate to a car, or a piece of furniture, or any other durable good? IP loses almost its entire value to many consumers once they've used it for a short period.

There has to be another way, however, as too many people find this obnoxious. And it is objectively obnoxious since I doubt the boxes are going to stop touting multi-player modes as features, despite the fact they won't be available to many buyers. Whether that means the graphics whores are going to have to be given the finger for a generation so the price of making big budget games comes down, or whether publishers really do need to risk radically reduced prices in the hopes of massively expanding the user base (if a $400 million dollar movie can make a profit off $12 tickets and good merchandising, then there has to be a way to get a $20 million dollar game to earn a profit off a $20 price, and yes I know it's ironic make a bad comparison like that in a post where I ridiculed the car analogy) I don't know, but something has to give. Even companies that are awash in fantastic sales like EA last quarter are not making a profit.

Then again, it seems like a tough argument for anyone to make to developers and publishers. Hey, you have to be more fair to these people who aren't paying you a single penny, but are still getting all the benefit of your work.

Why is everyone so upset about this? I mean lets be honest if it is a multiplayer game that you are buying I doubt that you will just be purchasing it for online play only, why do I say this? Well A.) By the time it got down to a reasonable used price I doubt anyone is really playing it as much, B.) Usually if it is a good game or if it is fairly new, the price you are paying for it used is practically the same price new. With that being said what is the issue with just buying it new? Most of all DLC that comes out you have to pay for anyways unless you wait down the line and eventually it is free. People who are getting upset about this stuff makes no sense, don't be cheap and spend the extra 5-6 bucks and buy it new.

Yeah I dont like this at all. Devs need to stop complaining about used sales. Maybe if they made games that lasted more then 6 hours and werent so expensive (like the good ol days) then maybe more people would buy new.

Respawn-d

@ xscrapzx lol at $5 -$6, plz, at times u can get up 30% off used games. and dont forget Gamestop's 7 day rule. u can play 10 games for the price of 1. Gamestop also lower their prices faster than EA, THq, Sony etc. Heck, Best Buy, Circuit City and Target for over a decade been slashing prices because they know selling the entire stock makes them money.PSP107

[QUOTE="Ginosaji"]

The thing I find most sad about this is that instead of adding value for those who purchase new, they're subtracting value from those who purchase used. They're actually putting effort into making a lesser product.

treedoor

Well, they're making new more valuable when comparing it to a used game. :P

I think that's the whole point.

Devs are tired of people opting to buy the used game because they can save $5

So then you are OK with auto manufacturers making piece of crap vehicles that only last 5 years in order to make buying used cars less attractive then buying new cars?? It is very much the same practice here.

[QUOTE="Respawn-d"][QUOTE="W1NGMAN-"]

What good ol days are you referring to? As I recall games were super short and just as expensive in the "good ol days"

360hammer

I paid $65 for Zelda which was like what 20 years ago? Ya, do a little research on the good ol days and you'll realize games havn't been touched by inflation like 99% of everything you buy.

If you do your research you will realise that Of the $50 a Zelda game costs 20 years ago between $25 to $30 of that money went to the cost of the Cartridge while in 2005 - 2010 a dvd is less than $1 to print. The difference in costs for supplies should offset inflation very well.

[QUOTE="PSP107"]@ xscrapzx lol at $5 -$6, plz, at times u can get up 30% off used games. and dont forget Gamestop's 7 day rule. u can play 10 games for the price of 1. Gamestop also lower their prices faster than EA, THq, Sony etc. Heck, Best Buy, Circuit City and Target for over a decade been slashing prices because they know selling the entire stock makes them money.xscrapzx

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

[QUOTE="Ginosaji"]

The thing I find most sad about this is that instead of adding value for those who purchase new, they're subtracting value from those who purchase used. They're actually putting effort into making a lesser product.

EG101

Well, they're making new more valuable when comparing it to a used game. :P

I think that's the whole point.

Devs are tired of people opting to buy the used game because they can save $5

So then you are OK with auto manufacturers making piece of crap vehicles that only last 5 years in order to make buying used cars less attractive then buying new cars?? It is very much the same practice here.

Cars in 5 years will have a bunch of new features that cars of today don't have.

Is it appealing to anyone buying a used car to get one without power steering, anti-lock breaks, airbags, power windows/locks, air conditioning, tinted windows, etc?

Not to mention what a car owner does to their car over the course of it's lifetime. A used car can come with high mileage, cracked windows, torn/shredded interior, a worn down transmission, a bad clutch, a battery in need of replacing, bald tires.

A used game, however, has absolutely NO VALUE DECREASE IN THE CURRENT STATE. If you go to the store and buy Super Mario Galaxy used you will get the same game as someone buying new, only you'll get it cheaper.

I am all for companies lowering the value of used games if it helps put money into their pockets. I'm tired of seeing my favorite companies losing millions of dollars, and cancelling projects for upcoming games.

heres an idea, if you buy a game used with this stuff, dont play it online because in 5 years they will cancel the online service like my ps2 games. all but 2 are offline

heres an idea, if you buy a game used with this stuff, dont play it online because in 5 years they will cancel the online service like my ps2 games. all but 2 are offline

bigM10231

The thing I find most sad about this is that instead of adding value for those who purchase new, they're subtracting value from those who purchase used. They're actually putting effort into making a lesser product.

Ginosaji

[QUOTE="360hammer"]

What games where you playing ?Respawn-d

I paid $65 for Zelda which was like what 20 years ago? Ya, do a little research on the good ol days and you'll realize games havn't been touched by inflation like 99% of everything you buy.

If you do your research you will realise that Of the $50 a Zelda game costs 20 years ago between $25 to $30 of that money went to the cost of the Cartridge while in 2005 - 2010 a dvd is less than $1 to print. The difference in costs for supplies should offset inflation very well.

[QUOTE="Respawn-d"]

Yeah I dont like this at all. Devs need to stop complaining about used sales. Maybe if they made games that lasted more then 6 hours and werent so expensive (like the good ol days) then maybe more people would buy new.

What good ol days are you referring to? As I recall games were super short and just as expensive in the "good ol days"

The thing I find most sad about this is that instead of adding value for those who purchase new, they're subtracting value from those who purchase used. They're actually putting effort into making a lesser product.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="Ginosaji"]

The thing I find most sad about this is that instead of adding value for those who purchase new, they're subtracting value from those who purchase used. They're actually putting effort into making a lesser product.

monson21502

[QUOTE="monson21502"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] well they are doign both, you get more if you buy new, so there's more value to spend $5 more, but theirs excessively less value buying used since saving $5 will cost you $15 for the entire package. I actually don't mind this new tactic, buy new get everything, buy used, you still have some way to help the dev if you really like the game.savagetwinkie

edit. it wont hurt them right away. but as soon as the nongamer site person. buys a used game to save a few bucks then finds out he is being chrged more then what he saved just to play online. gamestop used sales will be hurt .

im betting by next year. gamestops used game prices is 39.99 tops not 54.99

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="monson21502"]i buy used games for 12 bucks each. this tatic will only hurt gamestop. and the copy cats like bestbuy and wal-mart who just joined the used game sale game. i think when the big market stores joined the used game masrket. it has scared the devs and forced them to take action against it.monson21502

edit. it wont hurt them right away. but as soon as the nongamer site person. buys a used game to save a few bucks then finds out he is being chrged more then what he saved just to play online. gamestop used sales will be hurt .

im betting by next year. gamestops used game prices is 39.99 tops not 54.99

what really hurts the devs is the rental stores. like gamefly. alot of people only buy games with long lasting multi player then use rentals for the good single player games. this is why more devs are cramming online into their franchises.

what really hurts the devs is the rental stores. like gamefly. alot of people only buy games with long lasting multi player then use rentals for the good single player games. this is why more devs are cramming online into their franchises.

monson21502

[QUOTE="PSP107"]@ xscrapzx lol at $5 -$6, plz, at times u can get up 30% off used games. and dont forget Gamestop's 7 day rule. u can play 10 games for the price of 1. Gamestop also lower their prices faster than EA, THq, Sony etc. Heck, Best Buy, Circuit City and Target for over a decade been slashing prices because they know selling the entire stock makes them money.xscrapzx

[QUOTE="bigM10231"]

heres an idea, if you buy a game used with this stuff, dont play it online because in 5 years they will cancel the online service like my ps2 games. all but 2 are offline

PSP107

heres an idea, if you buy a game used with this stuff, dont play it online because in 5 years they will cancel the online service like my ps2 games. all but 2 are offline

The entire purpose is to coerce people into buying new. In the end this will hurt both consumers and retailers and will likely eventually backfire on the publisher/developers as well.

Ginosaji

The thing I find most sad about this is that instead of adding value for those who purchase new, they're subtracting value from those who purchase used. They're actually putting effort into making a lesser product.

Ginosaji

The used game market, I.E. Gamestop, is not hurting game sales as much as helping. They constantly run pre order bonus incentives to buy new, always ask you to preorder crap when you're in there, and have stores all over the country, thereby making gaming accessible to old junkies and newcomers alike. Hate on gamestop, but it is helping to expand the market. Pubs need to realize this, or they may lose the biggest asset/alley they have.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?sku=270204&loc=homebest# PSP107

[QUOTE="PSP107"]http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?sku=270204&loc=homebest# ianuilliam

The used game market, I.E. Gamestop, is not hurting game sales as much as helping. They constantly run pre order bonus incentives to buy new, always ask you to preorder crap when you're in there, and have stores all over the country, thereby making gaming accessible to old junkies and newcomers alike. Hate on gamestop, but it ishelping to expand the market. Pubs need to realize this, or they may lose the biggest asset/alley they have.

Pug-Nasty

The arrangement seems pretty reasonable to me. You get what you pay for. If you want to save $10-20 by buying a used game, good for you, sure it sucks for the developer since they get nothing out of the sale, but that's not your problem, that's just how the market works. On the flip side, if the developers want to restrict parts of the game through DLC, codes or what have you, good for them. You can still get the game for $10-20 less; the item will just be worth $10-20 less due to missing content.

It actually seems very fair, the developers are not preventing people from buying and selling used which is something they could certainly do. Instead they are trying to meet the gamers half way. Yes you can buy and sell used, yes you can get a game for less. However if you pay full price for the game you get the full value for the game. How is that unreasonable?

Yes, you can decide not to buy the game… That'll show those developers and publishers! Except of course that since they never benefitted from the used sale in the first place, the only one you're punishing is GameStop.

[QUOTE="Pug-Nasty"]

The used game market, I.E. Gamestop, is not hurting game sales as much as helping. They constantly run pre order bonus incentives to buy new, always ask you to preorder crap when you're in there, and have stores all over the country, thereby making gaming accessible to old junkies and newcomers alike. Hate on gamestop, but it ishelping to expand the market. Pubs need to realize this, or they may lose the biggest asset/alley they have.

PSP107

Awareness is all good and nice but it won't pay the bills. Piracy also 'expand awareness' of the game, that doesn't make it beneficial for the developer / publisher.

I just saw today's PSN update and i noticed the PSN of Mod Nation Racers for PSP is $29.99. But if you buy it used or someone lends itto uto borrow or keep, the new owner must pay $15 to access the online feature. No matter how u spin it considering its $29.99 new, thats just wrong.

I mean lets assume Gamestop will charge $24.99 and then add the $15 which comes to $45 + tax which is more than the actual game new.

Is Sony, EA, THq, bulling customers to buy it new?

PSP107

If people are going to pay GS's used game prices then they deserve to be dinged an extra $15 by Sony.

Like it or not devs are trying to kill the used game market, they have done it on pc and now the next target is console games. Pc games have had cd keys that can only be used once for years so what's the big deal? want to play boring old online buy it new. If not you can save and buy used copies. imprezawrx500

whats the big deal?

there's a HUGE difference between these 2 issues:

they started including keys in PC games to fight PIRACY... an illegal act.

what hey are doing know is trying to fight the Used market... which is quite Legal

instead of making smart business moves to assimilate with the used market, they are trying to fight it (reminds me of when DD of music (napster) was just coming along and recording companies were fighting them instead of working with them like they do now)

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]Like it or not devs are trying to kill the used game market, they have done it on pc and now the next target is console games. Pc games have had cd keys that can only be used once for years so what's the big deal? want to play boring old online buy it new. If not you can save and buy used copies. ogvampire

whats the big deal?

there's a HUGE difference between these 2 issues:

they started including keys in PC games to fight PIRACY... an illegal act.

what hey are doing know is trying to fight the Used market... which is quite Legal

instead of making smart business moves to assimilate with the used market, they are trying to fight it (reminds me of when DD of music (napster) was just coming along and recording companies were fighting them instead of working with them like they do now)

It seems to me that they are doing exactly what you are suggesting by trying to assimilate with the used game market instead of fighting it. They are not trying to shut it down, they are not trying to stop people from trading used games, and instead they are trying to get a cut of the profits.

They are doing the opposite of what the music industry did with napster. This would be like the music industry telling napster: "keep sharing files, but for each song you download, you'll have to pay us $1 if you want to be able to listen to the song in high quality. If not, do your thing, you can still trade the song but the sound quality will be lower."

That's not a bad thing. The entire purpose is so they make money off of the game they made. If you buy a game used or rent/borrow it, Sony is only making money off of one sale, even if that copy is sold fifty times.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"]Like it or not devs are trying to kill the used game market, they have done it on pc and now the next target is console games. Pc games have had cd keys that can only be used once for years so what's the big deal? want to play boring old online buy it new. If not you can save and buy used copies. Mazoch

whats the big deal?

there's a HUGE difference between these 2 issues:

they started including keys in PC games to fight PIRACY... an illegal act.

what hey are doing know is trying to fight the Used market... which is quite Legal

instead of making smart business moves to assimilate with the used market, they are trying to fight it (reminds me of when DD of music (napster) was just coming along and recording companies were fighting them instead of working with them like they do now)

It seems to me that they are doing exactly what you are suggesting by trying to assimilate with the used game market instead of fighting it. They are not trying to shut it down, they are not trying to stop people from trading used games, and instead they are trying to get a cut of the profits.

They are doing the opposite of what the music industry did with napster. This would be like the music industry telling napster: "keep sharing files, but for each song you download, you'll have to pay us $1 if you want to be able to listen to the song in high quality. If not, do your thing, you can still trade the song but the sound quality will be lower."

i dont know about that... the music industry assimilated with DD distribution NOT by charging consumers or double-charging certain customers, but by working WITH them... not trying to shut it down

we all know its MUCH too difficult for EA and other publishers to actually make their own Used game trade-in project, right?

and your analogy is wrong. napster was pretty much piracy, but if youre trying to use that as an analogy, a more fitting description would be:

"keep sharing albums, but you'll only get 8 out of the 12 songs in the album. if you want the other 4 songs you will have to pay us"

That's not a bad thing. The entire purpose is so they make money off of the game they made. If you buy a game used or rent/borrow it, Sony is only making money off of one sale, even if that copy is sold fifty times.

Phoenix534

the same economic rules that allow companies to sell their things also allow the people that BUY and OWN their things to do whatever they want with them, short of piracy and anything illegal of course

funny how they only like to play the part of economics that benefit them, not the consumer

i, as a consumer, am fighting for my rights... F them...