Sony really dropped the ball with the Pro

That was a botched, rushed job.

-That system doesn't even feel like a premium PS4. It feels the same as my old PS4 which I sold in the anticipation of the Pro.

-The list of good games having supporting worthwhile features on the Pro is paper thin. Sure, Uncharted 4 looks kinda nicer but 1440p on a 55" 4K screen doesn't cut it. Still doesn't appear as sharp as native 4K.

-Ratchet and Cank 2016 is the biggest winner. Game looks gorgeous but it sadly held back by 30fps because Sony decided to cheap out and rush their product so no CPU upgrade.

-Some games which would have benefited from the upgrade like Bloodborne and The Witcher 3 got no upgrade. Bloodborne is still janky as hell, the aliasing is all kinds of bad and the frame-pacing is vomit inducing at times. The Witcher 3 still dips way too much for its own good.

Overall very disappointed. Half-assed upgrade and Sony should be ashamed.

What says you fellas?

half assed is the key word here

not really, the market is just moving to 4k experiences so it was obvious that it wasn't going to make a big impact in just a few months. Like with all new technologies it will take time for it to really show its potential.

Yeah it's just a slightly upgraded PS4.

That's probably why we're already hearing rumors of the PS5.

I don't think Sony wants to be outclassed in every way by Microsofts Scorpio.

So they better get their shit together with PS5.

There are 0 rumors about the PS5. One dev that has nothing to do with Sony did a prediction about the PS5, that's it. Scorpio won't be much different than the Pro. Side by side games won't show any significant difference for the bulk of gamers.

Weren't you one of those claiming the PS4 destroyed the Xbox One in graphics quality?

Yeah, it really is. The upgrade isn't worth it.

Nope, even though the PS4 is capable of better graphical quality than the xbone I've always maintained that the PS4's true advantage is in games and that the difference in quality is not big enough to matter to most gamers, specially console gamers who are normally not so interested in relatively small graphical differences. Most people who care about graphical differences have a PC for obvious reasons. Console gamers focus more on price + games. That's what Sony has specially done right.

Of course it was half-ass upgrade console, I saw that shit from a mile away since day one and it's the reason why I'm NOT getting rid of my launch PS4 and besides, I'm one of the few who is cool with the console for what it is.

It should be a good hold over console for when PS5 releases. They should drop the price once Scorpio releases. Im guessing PS5 will come in 2018.

Not happening. Sony doesn't even know itself if there will ever be PS5 and even if there was, I wouldn't buy it day one anyways.

It's an upgraded ps4. Not sure what you guys expected, but I dig it

Just wasted 400 my self I still hate the ui you would think they would add new features but nope same ol ps4 just slightly more powerful not enough to warrant anyone who already owns one to go out buy it

Sony stated they released PS4 Pro as an easy way to stop people from upgrading to PC. So i feel no way in hell they let Scorpio and PC get an upper hand.

2018 doubtful a reveal probably. Sony will have 3 consoles if it came out in 2018, a nightmare to manage. Sony will have to allow a 3 year gap. So late 2019, i am betting. And they show it off ar E3 2018 7 months after Scorpio releases to generate hype for Playstation followers,

Yep, fucking pointless. Although, i think any 4K console is pointless.

The thing that really had me scratching my head was that it can read 4K Blu-ray Discs and the Xbox One S can.

@Juub1990:

Can you list the games you have personally played through on your PS4 pro?

Street Fighter V

Ratchet & Clank 2016

Uncharted 4

Bloodborne

Tomb Raider 2013

Nioh Demo

The Witcher 3

half generations are pointless in general

@Juub1990:

Out of that Ratchet was the only one worth it?

In fact I think what Sony did was smart. Consider that in one year when Scorpio releases there will be many more people with 4k tvs that can take advantage of a console like the Pro. Developers would have had 1 more year to get used to the Pro hardware in comparison to the Scorpio. That means that Sony will have a machine that will be capable of doing 4k (native or not) for a cheaper price and that devs find easier to work with which will probably show in the initial games that are released after the Scorpio releases. Now MS could potentially counter that by investing in first party games looking much better than multiplats on Scorpio at first like Sony did with the PS3 to show its true potential but since MS first party offers, and in general exclusive offers, are pathetic then I don't think they'll have that leverage. Sony has probably done a pretty good strategic move with the Pro.

Yes. Mostly because of the HDR+Resolution upgrade. Uncharted 4 presumably at the same but the color palette didn't make HDR stand out(compared to the numerous lasers, neon lights and fancy effects of R&C). I also believe it's 1800p using checkerboarding and not just 1440p.

This makes no sense at all.

Why? Care to elaborate? Developers usually uncover more potential from a machine the longer it is in the market. Just compare Uncharted with Uncharted 2 for example. The graphical fidelity skyrocketed thanks to the developer having more experience with it. Sony just gave developers a machine capable of 4k one year ahead of the Scorpio. If developers learn to take advantage of its hardware then they'll potentially make use of it in a better way than with Scorpio at the beginning so that will take down Scorpio's momentum.

Might have been true for previous generations of consoles which had pretty exotic architecture. The PS4 is a known quantity. Uncharted 2 also looked better than Uncharted because of the experience Naughty Dog acquired and they built upon the foundations of the original one to make the second one. Look at the upgrade from Uncharted 2 to 3. There barely is any. Hell some argue 2 looks better than 3.

PS4 Pro having a head-start over the Scorpio won't help it at all in terms of development. No idea where you got that from.

It has more than double the GPU power than PS4 but Lemmings are like "oh it's only slightly more powerful". Ok buddy sure. It's going to be the same thing for Xbone 2 just uprezzed Xbone ports. Only difference is the Pro will actually have games.

I think the Pro, for what it is, is a competent upgrade and serves its purpose.

I do appreciate the attempt to give fans yearning for more power something to push their 4K TVs.

The biggest mistake Sony made with the Pro is not opening up the resources so that EVERY game could take advantage of the extra power, much like the XB1 S.

When i play an Xbox One or 360 game on the S, the extra 10% power smoothes frame rates and eliminates screen tearing.

No dev patches needed.

I wouldve traded my base PS4 in a heartbeat if the games i already own could take advantage without patches.

All of the other dev patches are just bonus.

If I bought a PS4, then a pro and then Sony announces a PS5 for 2018/19 I think at that point I'd get pissed. For me the pro was too small an upgrade to be worthwhile and really feels like a very temporary stop gap for a new console.

@Juub1990:

That's a shame

Microsoft will show Sony how to make a seamless system upgrade that improve all the existing games with the Scorpio.

PS, it would be funny if I am wrong.?

The most damning faults to me are the fact that not only did most games not get any kind of upgrade, but no games got an increased frame rate, also the fact that it has no 4k blu ray player, and last but not least, it actually makes some games... Run worse! Absolute half assed job, and complete waste of money if you already own an OG PS4.

Pointless upgrade for a pointless console.

It's called hubris. They let their market lead push them into a state of overconfidence and didn't push themselves to do any better.

Good news, that means I'll keep my orig. PoS4 even though it's noisy.

There is no true potentional as the PS3 anymore. Because the architectures are not completely alien anymore. They can dig in the full potential already straight from out of the gate as they all use PC type of architectures. Which are well known.

The only thing that will happen over time is lesser 4k game support. You already see it now. The PS4 pro isn't a 4k machine it does all kinds of tricks to even get to it in older games. Games that will launch from now on will get a resolution bump but nowhere near 4k.

The only way to do 4k atm is through PC. Nothing else. If resolution or graphics matter people wouldn't even jump into consoles to start with as they are far to limited in what they do.

I agree the ps4 pro is a terrible mid gen device. It doesn't do what it advertises 4k. the performance is all over the place and resolutions with games in general which makes it even more vague.

But at the other end its a affordable one, and people with 4k tv's can have at some point in time a bit better resolutions then the stock ps4 one. And that's what consoles is about support + affordable prices. So they did well here.

That's because when the ps3 launched, nobody know what they where supposed to do with it. The architecture was alien, the dev tools where a joke, and the performance on it was terrible in the traditional way. Most devs with no pc background couldn't do much with it as they never coded for such a new architecture. All with all it took huge amounts of time for them to move over and get anything worthwhile going. ( This is also why xbox360 got more populaire as it was a far more friendlier platform to make games on )

That's why you see such a difference between early gen and later gen games.

This no longer applies with current gen consoles, as they all use a PC architecture with well known engines to build games on. This also means the same for the switch, that everything can already be maxed out straight from the first day. Unless sony allocates more resources like unlock more cores or reserve less ram to do things with for games. Which even then isn't going to be noticed much.

This basically means that the moment scorpio launches or the ps4 pro, the console can already be used to its max straight out of the gate. and you clearly see this already with the pro from day one as they can't hit 4k resolutions already or stable 60 fps over 30 fps in current gen ps4 titles. Because there is not enough performance simple as that.

That's why you see all those weird resolutions and mixed settings with the ps4 pro, because it just can't keep up with PC's as it's a weak box still.

Witcher 3 1080p mixture of mid / high settings barely 30 fps on xbox one / ps4

Witcher 3 1080p/1440p 60 fps, high settings ( ps4 pro will barely manage the last one if at all without tuning settings down )

Witcher 3 4k 30/60 fps high settings, scorpio most likely won't even hit the 60 fps let alone ultra settings.

Witcher 3 720p/4k+ 30-144fps+ low/ultra+ settings + even modded further settings , PC

Consoles are no longer in there own bubble, same goes for switch. It all uses PC architectures that everybody is well known with and they can see directly on the specs what it can or can't run.

I still don't understand why you are so sure about that. Even if the PS4 has a more traditional architecture than the PS3 it's still a fixed architecture that can be optimized. If Sony develops better developer technologies that take advantage of the Pro's potential here and there then developers will have a way to improve on the games. And that doesn't happen only with the PS3 it happens to every console every generation. Later games tend to use resources better and run better overall unless the dev is completely incompetent. With Scorpio the same will happen but it will take more time since it is releasing later. It's pretty standard software development processes all of this.

These consoles have been out for three years and I still don't see the optimization that you're talking about. BF1 looks a lot better than BF4 but the performance is also a lot worse. Sacrifices have to be made. Killzone Shadow Fall came out in 2013 and is still one of the best looking PS4 games out there. What will tip the scales is budget and development time.

Every console generation prior to this one used exotic proprietary architectures. These consoles are closer to PC than any one before them. There used to be a time an equivalent PC couldn't hold a candle to a console. This doesn't apply any more.

@Gatygun: Look at my post above. Yeah the PS3 was alien so it makes sense that the jump of quality was higher with time but even with more traditional architectures is going to happen since consoles are a closed PC and, therefore, easier to optimize on. A developer has little motivation to optimize a game on PC much because PC architectures are too variable so they do much by brute force but with consoles things change and every detail of the hardware configuration can be exploited to squish more performance out of it and that takes time and experience. Of course it won't be a big jump but it could potentially put the Pro in a quite comparable efficiency level with the Scorpio around the time it releases and while the Scorpio's resources are not being used optimally.

This won't happen and this is just wishful thinking on your part. For a so-called manticore you sure have a hard-on for everything Sony.

@Juub1990: It's not so easy to compare a first party dev like Guerrilla Games to multiplat devs. First party devs definitely have advantages that will allow them to squish out power sooner than multiplat devs. It also helps that they can stick to only one architecture a luxury multiplat devs don't have. That's why I said that MS can show the true potential of Scorpio faster using their first party but MS also is making that difficult by opening their first party on pc, meaning that first party devs now have to focus on multiple architectures, and by having a weak first party with little to no investments. So I think the Scorpio's potential will take a while to show and in that time the Pro can really take advantage to create positive publicity towards it, specially using their first party talent.

That's even more hilarious than the secret sauce of Microsoft.

Go read up the Pro papers and the Scorpio white paper Eurogamer recently covered. You'll see why your logic of gen 7 doesn't apply any more.

Let's wait and see. Bookmarked for future ownage. I buy all my multiplats on PC because I know they'll run better than on any console so whatev.

Bookmark it. I'll be sure to laugh at you when the time comes.

@dakur: Designing games for the Xbox and PC is intertwined and the game design process translates well with increase in processing power because the foundation of the entire system is designed for it. The Pro would not have an advantage in this area because of extra time on the market.

This is a thing better proven in practice than on paper. So let's see how Sony's first party on the Pro compares to games on the Scorpio once it releases. My prediction is that Sony's games will be impressively close (or even higher) to Scorpio's quality.

We won't compare 1st party because this boils down to talent more than anything else. It's also very difficult to compare assets across games.

We will compare multiplats and see how well the PS4 Pro does because the devs will supposedly have had more time to optimize for it.

@Pedro: Impossible to know that since there is a software layer that will have to be dealt with by each dev and that makes passing from one hardware architecture to the next pretty seamlessly. So that depends completely on the quality of this software layer and the ability of the dev and how it manages the translations to different hardware configurations. This is not a trivial task and a software that sticks with only one architecture can always be more optimized than one that needs to work on several different ones.

This is about marketing. Sony will take advantage of it because they want to market the machine as capable as the Scorpio so it will DEFINITELY involve Sony's first party since they are the most talented devs on Sony's platform. MS will be advertising a multiplat on the Scorpio that looks good but Sony can perfectly well show a first party game that looks as well or better and say, look! We can do it too for a cheaper price! and most console gamers will not care about the differences or how Sony managed it. I'm talking about the real world here not SW.

@dakur: You speak as if UWP does not exist. You speak as if this technology is hidden and obtuse when devs create games for Xbox and the UWP platform. You speak as though the Xbox One is not running on the same OS as a PC. Stop creating these imaginary walls.