Square Enix in big trouble, huge drop in popularity and sales of FF !

[QUOTE="cloud3601"]I also heard in had an awesome story. GT gave the story a 9.8.

Its everything FF hsould have been, but with a better ring systemRandoIph

FF and pretty much every JRPG is outdated and outdated for a long time, not surprising.silversix_

only for people to complain me, the games have now seen a drop in quality

You mean to tell me that people are losing interest in a franchise that has been milked for the past decade?

SpinoRaptor24

[QUOTE="verbtex"]

They need to do something different but it's hardly time for them to ring the alarm bells of closing. They just need a new strategy. This is one of those times when you fix things because obviously the company's doing something wrong.

hakanakumono

Trying to do something different is partly how they ended up with FFXII and FFXIII, polar opposites of each other, both hated upon release (although for FFXII you don't really see it much anymore).

[QUOTE="cloud3601"]

[QUOTE="robokill"]12 was most definitely your normal ff game as was 10, but 13 was just crap. It's bound to happen, they'll come back strong I'm sure.finalfantasy94

FF11-14 were not normal FF games

thats a terrible guidline to go by. Since its all opinion based. Whats a good story is very opinoin based and 12 and 13 both had fun battle systems,but again that can be subjective to.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]Square owns Eidos thus are a part of Square enix, actually Eidos was rebranded Square Enix Europe aswell so bang goes your whole ZOMG square are dying.subrosian

It proves his point bout Square Enix being in trouble completely wrong though.Considering its a very profitable arm of their company it actually disproves his topic title.Maybe if he said FF it might be agreeable but Squeenix as a whole...NOPE.

Thats the point.

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

[QUOTE="cloud3601"]A normal FF game is one that is epic. Has a good story and strategic battle system.

FF11-14 were not normal FF games

cloud3601

thats a terrible guidline to go by. Since its all opinion based. Whats a good story is very opinoin based and 12 and 13 both had fun battle systems,but again that can be subjective to.

No, it's not, that's opinion.

These opinions disagree:

FF12 - 92% (Metacritic)

FF13 - 83% (Metacritic)

[QUOTE="cloud3601"]

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

thats a terrible guidline to go by. Since its all opinion based. Whats a good story is very opinoin based and 12 and 13 both had fun battle systems,but again that can be subjective to.

SteamedBennet

No, it's not, that's opinion.

These opinions disagree:

FF12 - 92% (Metacritic)

FF13 - 83% (Metacritic)

Its the last one with a good story

I understand that Square Enix want to evolve Final Fantasy and create/improve battle-systems along with appealing to the majority of the gaming world, but I think they're just doing it all wrong, simple as. As for those saying "they should return to their roots" that's a stupid idea and will never work. People don't want that anymore; they want improvements and new ideas, not everybody wants a damn clone of Final Fantasy VII. meconate

No it's not stupid, nobody ever wanted extreme change for the franchise and said they got bored of the old. Thats just a myth made up by new fans. Just like nobody ever got bored of them old survival horror games with tank controls. I see people play older games on live gaming streams all the time and hundreds people come to watch and the caster is generally enjoying what he is playing.

[QUOTE="meconate"]I understand that Square Enix want to evolve Final Fantasy and create/improve battle-systems along with appealing to the majority of the gaming world, but I think they're just doing it all wrong, simple as. As for those saying "they should return to their roots" that's a stupid idea and will never work. People don't want that anymore; they want improvements and new ideas, not everybody wants a damn clone of Final Fantasy VII. Crossel777

No it's not stupid, nobody ever wanted extreme change for the franchise and said they got bored of the old. Thats just a myth made up by new fans. Just like nobody ever got bored of them old survival horror games with tank controls. I see people play older games on live gaming streams all the time and hundreds people come to watch and the caster is generally enjoying what he is playing.

That's just nostalgia, a series can't survive of that alone. Poeple will grow tired of it eventually. Don't get me wrong, games like Final Fantasy IX and Resident evil 2+3 are some of my favourite games, but I want to see evolution in a series (which will only come about from trying things to see if they work). For example, when they made RE 4, the developers were trying a new direction for the series, and look how good RE 4 turned out (also, look how much RE 5 didn't evolve and looked how that turned out).

[QUOTE="Crossel777"]

[QUOTE="meconate"]I understand that Square Enix want to evolve Final Fantasy and create/improve battle-systems along with appealing to the majority of the gaming world, but I think they're just doing it all wrong, simple as. As for those saying "they should return to their roots" that's a stupid idea and will never work. People don't want that anymore; they want improvements and new ideas, not everybody wants a damn clone of Final Fantasy VII. SteamedBennet

No it's not stupid, nobody ever wanted extreme change for the franchise and said they got bored of the old. Thats just a myth made up by new fans. Just like nobody ever got bored of them old survival horror games with tank controls. I see people play older games on live gaming streams all the time and hundreds people come to watch and the caster is generally enjoying what he is playing.

That's just nostalgia, a series can't survive of that alone. Poeple will grow tired of it eventually. Don't get me wrong, games like Final Fantasy IX and Resident evil 2+3 are some of my favourite games, but I want to see evolution in a series (which will only come about from trying things to see if they work). For example, when they made RE 4, the developers were trying a new direction for the series, and look how good RE 4 turned out (also, look how much RE 5 didn't evolve and looked how that turned out).

True enough, but a series can evolve while remaining true to itself and I believe that is what many fans are wishing for. The first 9 FF's had plenty of evolution and differentiation between games while still having a familiar core. Even X deviated from the norm a good bit, but still felt like a FF game.

There is a big difference between evolving a series or making a series unrecognizable. I enjoyed FFXII and disliked XIII, but neither game really felt like FF. Take out the staple reoccurring names of items, spells and other miscellaneous naming conventions and the games could have launched under different titles without anybody knowing the difference. Nobody would have thought "hmmm this a re-branded FF game" because they simply don't fit the bill.

There is plenty of room to improve and evolve upon the old formula. Its a damn shame that we now have the hardware capable of realizing the types of worlds they tried to convey on the SNES and PSX, but instead we just get pretty visuals.

My favorite game in the series is VI, but I don't want a clone of that by any means. I just think SE could do some good by taking elements of the old that people enjoyed and building upon those ideas. There is nothing outdated, or archaic about being able to explore unique dungeons and towns, flying airships around the world, looking for secret areas, controlling all your characters, having freedom (to an extent) over your characters growth, playing mini-games, having like-able characters and an enjoyable, non-pretentious, non-convoluted story.

Look at the idea of bringing back airships. Many fans have been wanting this for years. We have the hardware now to make airship gameplay better than ever. You could fly around a full 3d world, explore secrets hidden in the clouds, have castles, or entire landmasses in the sky, airship battles against other airships, or stranger enemies. Hell they could limit your exploration based on how powerful enemies are in certain areas of the sky just as they would do for a dungeon, or other area that you are not leveled high enough for on land. Even storms could be taken into account.

Of course I'm no game designer, but for a guy just sitting behind his computer thinking of ideas off the top of my head, I think those would be some cool ways of evolving an old idea.

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

[QUOTE="cloud3601"]A normal FF game is one that is epic. Has a good story and strategic battle system.

FF11-14 were not normal FF games

cloud3601

thats a terrible guidline to go by. Since its all opinion based. Whats a good story is very opinoin based and 12 and 13 both had fun battle systems,but again that can be subjective to.

no thats an opinion. learn the differences between fact and opinion.

12 was good, but felt like a pebblestone for something much greater to succeed it. 13 went waaaaay off course, and the rest was history.

[QUOTE="SteamedBennet"]

[QUOTE="Crossel777"]

No it's not stupid, nobody ever wanted extreme change for the franchise and said they got bored of the old. Thats just a myth made up by new fans. Just like nobody ever got bored of them old survival horror games with tank controls. I see people play older games on live gaming streams all the time and hundreds people come to watch and the caster is generally enjoying what he is playing.

sandbox3d

That's just nostalgia, a series can't survive of that alone. Poeple will grow tired of it eventually. Don't get me wrong, games like Final Fantasy IX and Resident evil 2+3 are some of my favourite games, but I want to see evolution in a series (which will only come about from trying things to see if they work). For example, when they made RE 4, the developers were trying a new direction for the series, and look how good RE 4 turned out (also, look how much RE 5 didn't evolve and looked how that turned out).

True enough, but a series can evolve while remaining true to itself and I believe that is what many fans are wishing for. The first 9 FF's had plenty of evolution and differentiation between games while still having a familiar core. Even X deviated from the norm a good bit, but still felt like a FF game.

There is a big difference between evolving a series or making a series unrecognizable. I enjoyed FFXII and disliked XIII, but neither game really felt like FF. Take out the staple reoccurring names of items, spells and other miscellaneous naming conventions and the games could have launched under different titles without anybody knowing the difference. Nobody would have thought "hmmm this a re-branded FF game" because they simply don't fit the bill.

There is plenty of room to improve and evolve upon the old formula. Its a damn shame that we now have the hardware capable of realizing the types of worlds they tried to convey on the SNES and PSX, but instead we just get pretty visuals.

My favorite game in the series is VI, but I don't want a clone of that by any means. I just think SE could do some good by taking elements of the old that people enjoyed and building upon those ideas. There is nothing outdated, or archaic about being able to explore unique dungeons and towns, flying airships around the world, looking for secret areas, controlling all your characters, having freedom (to an extent) over your characters growth, playing mini-games, having like-able characters and an enjoyable, non-pretentious, non-convoluted story.

Look at the idea of bringing back airships. Many fans have been wanting this for years. We have the hardware now to make airship gameplay better than ever. You could fly around a full 3d world, explore secrets hidden in the clouds, have castles, or entire landmasses in the sky, airship battles against other airships, or stranger enemies. Hell they could limit your exploration based on how powerful enemies are in certain areas of the sky just as they would do for a dungeon, or other area that you are not leveled high enough for on land. Even storms could be taken into account.

Of course I'm no game designer, but for a guy just sitting behind his computer thinking of ideas off the top of my head, I think those would be some cool ways of evolving an old idea.

same could be said with anything. the only thing i really expect from a ff game that makes it ff is the spells,summons,chocobo and proboly a airship and thats it. you cant put things like story and character in that list since its just opinion. You may hate the story and characters,but someone could feel the exact opposite. Theres not a fact sheet that says "FF characters and story should be like this" end of the day its ether you like it or you dont its still FF characters and story.

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="SteamedBennet"]

That's just nostalgia, a series can't survive of that alone. Poeple will grow tired of it eventually. Don't get me wrong, games like Final Fantasy IX and Resident evil 2+3 are some of my favourite games, but I want to see evolution in a series (which will only come about from trying things to see if they work). For example, when they made RE 4, the developers were trying a new direction for the series, and look how good RE 4 turned out (also, look how much RE 5 didn't evolve and looked how that turned out).

finalfantasy94

True enough, but a series can evolve while remaining true to itself and I believe that is what many fans are wishing for. The first 9 FF's had plenty of evolution and differentiation between games while still having a familiar core. Even X deviated from the norm a good bit, but still felt like a FF game.

There is a big difference between evolving a series or making a series unrecognizable. I enjoyed FFXII and disliked XIII, but neither game really felt like FF. Take out the staple reoccurring names of items, spells and other miscellaneous naming conventions and the games could have launched under different titles without anybody knowing the difference. Nobody would have thought "hmmm this a re-branded FF game" because they simply don't fit the bill.

There is plenty of room to improve and evolve upon the old formula. Its a damn shame that we now have the hardware capable of realizing the types of worlds they tried to convey on the SNES and PSX, but instead we just get pretty visuals.

My favorite game in the series is VI, but I don't want a clone of that by any means. I just think SE could do some good by taking elements of the old that people enjoyed and building upon those ideas. There is nothing outdated, or archaic about being able to explore unique dungeons and towns, flying airships around the world, looking for secret areas, controlling all your characters, having freedom (to an extent) over your characters growth, playing mini-games, having like-able characters and an enjoyable, non-pretentious, non-convoluted story.

Look at the idea of bringing back airships. Many fans have been wanting this for years. We have the hardware now to make airship gameplay better than ever. You could fly around a full 3d world, explore secrets hidden in the clouds, have castles, or entire landmasses in the sky, airship battles against other airships, or stranger enemies. Hell they could limit your exploration based on how powerful enemies are in certain areas of the sky just as they would do for a dungeon, or other area that you are not leveled high enough for on land. Even storms could be taken into account.

Of course I'm no game designer, but for a guy just sitting behind his computer thinking of ideas off the top of my head, I think those would be some cool ways of evolving an old idea.

same could be said with anything. the only thing i really expect from a ff game that makes it ff is the spells,summons,chocobo and proboly a airship and thats it. you cant put things like story and character in that list since its just opinion. You may hate the story and characters,but someone could feel the exact opposite. Theres not a fact sheet that says "FF characters and story should be like this" end of the day its ether you like it or you dont its still FF characters and story.

I'm sorry, but could you elaborate on how the same could be said about anything?

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

True enough, but a series can evolve while remaining true to itself and I believe that is what many fans are wishing for. The first 9 FF's had plenty of evolution and differentiation between games while still having a familiar core. Even X deviated from the norm a good bit, but still felt like a FF game.

There is a big difference between evolving a series or making a series unrecognizable. I enjoyed FFXII and disliked XIII, but neither game really felt like FF. Take out the staple reoccurring names of items, spells and other miscellaneous naming conventions and the games could have launched under different titles without anybody knowing the difference. Nobody would have thought "hmmm this a re-branded FF game" because they simply don't fit the bill.

There is plenty of room to improve and evolve upon the old formula. Its a damn shame that we now have the hardware capable of realizing the types of worlds they tried to convey on the SNES and PSX, but instead we just get pretty visuals.

My favorite game in the series is VI, but I don't want a clone of that by any means. I just think SE could do some good by taking elements of the old that people enjoyed and building upon those ideas. There is nothing outdated, or archaic about being able to explore unique dungeons and towns, flying airships around the world, looking for secret areas, controlling all your characters, having freedom (to an extent) over your characters growth, playing mini-games, having like-able characters and an enjoyable, non-pretentious, non-convoluted story.

Look at the idea of bringing back airships. Many fans have been wanting this for years. We have the hardware now to make airship gameplay better than ever. You could fly around a full 3d world, explore secrets hidden in the clouds, have castles, or entire landmasses in the sky, airship battles against other airships, or stranger enemies. Hell they could limit your exploration based on how powerful enemies are in certain areas of the sky just as they would do for a dungeon, or other area that you are not leveled high enough for on land. Even storms could be taken into account.

Of course I'm no game designer, but for a guy just sitting behind his computer thinking of ideas off the top of my head, I think those would be some cool ways of evolving an old idea.

sandbox3d

same could be said with anything. the only thing i really expect from a ff game that makes it ff is the spells,summons,chocobo and proboly a airship and thats it. you cant put things like story and character in that list since its just opinion. You may hate the story and characters,but someone could feel the exact opposite. Theres not a fact sheet that says "FF characters and story should be like this" end of the day its ether you like it or you dont its still FF characters and story.

I'm sorry, but could you elaborate on how the same could be said about anything?

I doubt he can. A person could play FF9 without all the common names for stuff and still know they are playing FF. Just like how LO is basically a low budget FF and its clear as day. I agree that 12 and 13 could easily pass as not being FF and damn 12 is my favorite of the series.

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

same could be said with anything. the only thing i really expect from a ff game that makes it ff is the spells,summons,chocobo and proboly a airship and thats it. you cant put things like story and character in that list since its just opinion. You may hate the story and characters,but someone could feel the exact opposite. Theres not a fact sheet that says "FF characters and story should be like this" end of the day its ether you like it or you dont its still FF characters and story.

ConanTheStoner

I'm sorry, but could you elaborate on how the same could be said about anything?

I doubt he can. A person could play FF9 without all the common names for stuff and still know they are playing FF. Just like how LO is basically a low budget FF and its clear as day. I agree that 12 and 13 could easily pass as not being FF and damn 12 is my favorite of the series.

lol I know, but this is the same guy that doesn't get why people think Lords of Shadow doesn't really feel like CV. I was just curious to hear his explanation this time around.

I personaly cant stand DQ.

finalfantasy94

[QUOTE="SteamedBennet"]

[QUOTE="cloud3601"]ffx was last good ff. thats a fact.

cloud3601

No, it's not, that's opinion.

These opinions disagree:

FF12 - 92% (Metacritic)

FF13 - 83% (Metacritic)

Its the last one with a good story

[QUOTE="ConanTheStoner"]

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

I'm sorry, but could you elaborate on how the same could be said about anything?

sandbox3d

I doubt he can. A person could play FF9 without all the common names for stuff and still know they are playing FF. Just like how LO is basically a low budget FF and its clear as day. I agree that 12 and 13 could easily pass as not being FF and damn 12 is my favorite of the series.

lol I know, but this is the same guy that doesn't get why people think Lords of Shadow doesn't really feel like CV. I was just curious to hear his explanation this time around.

basicly what you said is take away staples like names of spells, summons,items and such and people wouldint know its a ff games which i find can be said about series. If ff9 didint have spell names or art you couldint tell its a ff game cause well thats a part of FF.Heck they even use the blackmage art. Also I dont get why people think castlevania doesint look like castlevanain when it from my pov as a fan of the series it does. It just has more relatio to super castlevania 4 which some people have seem to forgoten and is less like the metroidvania gameplay which is whats current.Castlevania has 2 ways to look at it not just one.

It still did pretty well in Japan in it's first week and was first place on the charts. I find it funny how the haters are like "see, it failed". Plus, it came around the same time as the Vita and generally the new system gets most of the attention...Also, not everyone hated XIII. There are many people who enjoyed it, like me.

Face it, times changed. Don't expect another FF game to be the same as the the older ones. Even if they remade FF VII it would be different than the PS1 one.

[QUOTE="Miroku32"]Ppl are still angry at Square Enix for FF13. sandbox3d

True. I have no idea what they were thinking. Why make a sequel to one of your worst received games in your main series? Why???? It would be like Nintendo making a sequel to Mario Sunshine.

I'm sure it was easy for SE to recycle assets and build upon the previous games structure so the investment was cheap in relative terms, but still they are only further damaging the image of Final Fantasy rather than taking that time and money and investing it towards something that could revitalize the series. Hell they could have even used those resources to bring back one of their many forgotten IPs.

SE has everything they need to be considered a powerhouse developer again, but they keep making piss poor decisions.

Why? Because it's easier to make a sequel than a whole brand new game from scratch. Not only that, they wanted to fix the things that was hated in XIII. But I guess no amount of fixes will truely please everyone. If they remade FF VII for example, it would just get hated.

[QUOTE="cloud3601"]

[QUOTE="SteamedBennet"]

No, it's not, that's opinion.

These opinions disagree:

FF12 - 92% (Metacritic)

FF13 - 83% (Metacritic)

jasonharris48

Its the last one with a good story

That's crazy talk. :P

[QUOTE="meconate"]I understand that Square Enix want to evolve Final Fantasy and create/improve battle-systems along with appealing to the majority of the gaming world, but I think they're just doing it all wrong, simple as. As for those saying "they should return to their roots" that's a stupid idea and will never work. People don't want that anymore; they want improvements and new ideas, not everybody wants a damn clone of Final Fantasy VII. Crossel777

No it's not stupid, nobody ever wanted extreme change for the franchise and said they got bored of the old. Thats just a myth made up by new fans. Just like nobody ever got bored of them old survival horror games with tank controls. I see people play older games on live gaming streams all the time and hundreds people come to watch and the caster is generally enjoying what he is playing.

I wanted change. After playing a multitude of RPGs outside of FF, I realized the battle systems were typically pretty dull and it needed something. Typically, an FF requires no effort outside of boss battles. FFXIII pretty much exceeded my expectations in the battle department. I've been playing since VII on the PC. Played the classic games long before FFXIII.

[QUOTE="Crossel777"]

[QUOTE="meconate"]I understand that Square Enix want to evolve Final Fantasy and create/improve battle-systems along with appealing to the majority of the gaming world, but I think they're just doing it all wrong, simple as. As for those saying "they should return to their roots" that's a stupid idea and will never work. People don't want that anymore; they want improvements and new ideas, not everybody wants a damn clone of Final Fantasy VII. hakanakumono

No it's not stupid, nobody ever wanted extreme change for the franchise and said they got bored of the old. Thats just a myth made up by new fans. Just like nobody ever got bored of them old survival horror games with tank controls. I see people play older games on live gaming streams all the time and hundreds people come to watch and the caster is generally enjoying what he is playing.

I wanted change. After playing a multitude of RPGs outside of FF, I realized the battle systems were typically pretty dull and it needed something. Typically, an FF requires no effort outside of boss battles. FFXIII pretty much exceeded my expectations in the battle department. I've been playing since VII on the PC. Played the classic games long before FFXIII.

The high water-mark of the battle systems in FF for me is X. That extra strategy element in there was perfect.

I don't want Final Fantasy VII. I want Final Fantasy XV and I want it to not suck like the other FF's since X. And I'm all in favour of the series returning to its roots, the same way IX did (coincidentally, IX's my favorite FF behind VI).

All IMO, of course, but SE's doing a fantastic job of making me not care about Final Fantasy.

I still say DQ VIII's the best JRPG released since FF X.

[QUOTE="cloud3601"]

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

thats a terrible guidline to go by. Since its all opinion based. Whats a good story is very opinoin based and 12 and 13 both had fun battle systems,but again that can be subjective to.

SteamedBennet

No, it's not, that's opinion.

These opinions disagree:

FF12 - 92% (Metacritic)

FF13 - 83% (Metacritic)

[QUOTE="SteamedBennet"]

[QUOTE="cloud3601"]ffx was last good ff. thats a fact.

cloud3601

No, it's not, that's opinion.

These opinions disagree:

FF12 - 92% (Metacritic)

FF13 - 83% (Metacritic)

Nice too see FF8 as the best selling game, proves how good the game is compared the the overrated FF7Code_Blue_

...But VIII didn't outsell VII. These are launch week sales only. :?

If you were going to try and get anything out of those numbers, it would be that VII led more people to get excited about the next FF than any other. You'd notice that VIII didn't maintain that for IX nearly as well...