I am not all that surprise taking into consideration their preference and difference in taste compare to our gaming preference.
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I am not all that surprise taking into consideration their preference and difference in taste compare to our gaming preference.
[QUOTE="Birdy09"]I cant believe it, its the same syndrome people have with blizzard, a fanboy complex where they cant do any wrong. Dragon Age - a crap storied version of Baldurs Gate .... infact, other than graphics and modern talking technology :lol: its an inferior, shorter and milder game in general, yet ofc, even lacking things that NWN 1&2 brought to the picture with great online systems... whats that Bioware? couldnt be bothered? oh... but teh GS 9.5 means that DA is the top notch of this style RPG right? :roll: .... ugh. Mass Effect - Popularity heavily based on graphics AND IT BEING A SHOOTER! yea ok, fun games, but bragging about the popularity of a godamn game thats aimed at the shooter fad with very VERY light RPG elements beyond optional dialogue is laughable at best. FF13 can be mocked for its characters, its story style and linearity, but god at least they gave a damn about the combat, itemization and challenge, unlike Bioware, which barely every do those things correctly.Hakkai007
Looks like someone has his rose colored glasses on...
Dragon Age was great. This is coming from a person who played Planescape Torment, which of course is better, but still DA:O is not a bad game and is quite good.
Rose Coloured Glasses on for who? DA is a short game, bland characters, bland story, im not saying it isnt a bad game, im just saying its not up to some mighty standard that gives Bioware the right to slate anyone, because its thier worst (D&D Isometric) release in terms of everything except graphics, providing less for the players, but oh wait, I guess there is more buyable DLC :roll:. And Mass Effect, while good games, are story tailored shooters, which are very easy, near challengless (yes on hard) and provide little for the player to do in terms of gear/farming/boss challenges ... theres just nothing there whatsoever, its go from point A-B-C-D but in a optional order, spiced up with "NPC Live or Die" basic options. With a main prognastic that no matter how you play him/her they do everything perfectly with no soul, perfect speaking and undeniably the most souless type around. Hell, least The Witcher was a believeable character. ok sure its because "YOU are Shepard" ... well yea I am, so this bland lifeless avatar I "role play" now makes it the best? A silly little preference that has been around for years yet is the new fad of this gen.I'm just going to throw this out there because you're a PC gamer (as am I) and I've read your posts so I know you're a pretty balanced guy.[QUOTE="LongZhiZi"][QUOTE="Arach666"]
That´s not a surprise to me,the Japanese audience is very ethnocentric and is usually only focused on their market,with very few exceptions.
The Japanese should open their mind and broaden their horizons about western developed games,they are way to close minded about them,unlike we are.
They are just limiting themselves,and that´s a damn shame.
Arach666
I think you'd agree that PC gaming is a very non-Japanese thing. So if you were to make a PC game/port, it would be only appealing to non-Japanese consumers. If Japanese gamers are so closed-minded and Western consumers are so open-minded, why do we typically not see JRPGs on the PC? It's not like Square-Enix has an aversion to PC gaming, as they publish all of their Western developed games on the PC. Logically, if Western-gamers were truly so open-minded, certainly you'd want to get it on every platform possible (and if I recall correctly, the engine that powers FF13 was also designed for the PC) so a PC version would be a no-brainer.
Well,I believe that the question you ask can only be answered by SE,they are the ones that have the power to release the FF SP games on the PC,and yet they don´t.
There are some explanations to that though.
First,the PC gaming market is more oriented to PC franchises,not console ports or franchises that have origins on the consoles. The FF franchise is clearly a console oriented franchise,it´s not because it´s of Japanese origin.
You can see that FFXIII sold exteremely well in here on both consoles(and one of those consoles isn´t Japanese),and that is kind of my point.They are console franchises,they will always sell better on consoles.
Piracy can be another barrier for SE,but considering that many PC games(keyword being PC) sell by the millions,that really isn´t an excuse.
Besides,western consumers are indeed more open minded to Japanese games,if you see the sales numbers in the US and Europe of games like SMG2 or FFXIII(among many others),you can state that they sell millions,while the top US/EU games seel very poorly there.
Let me give you an example: Little big Planet is a game that,considering the taste of Japanese gamers for platformers and for the style of the game itself,should have been a success in Japan.
Why wasn´t it then? Because it wasn´t developed by a Japanese company...
SE is indeed focusing their efforts on a PC FF game though,and that will come at least 6 months before the console version,wich is something,I guess.
Then again,it´s an MMO,and SE knows that the PC market is way stronger than the console market in that regard,and it´s the comple opposite for usual SP JRPG´s.
Just my 2 cents but you probably shouldn't include Nintendo in this type of discussion. They have a heavy hand start since they propelled console gaming to the path its on now. no western or Japanese company has ever had as successful games worldwide as they have and you don't even need to look at this gen to see that.
The west is more open to different cultured games I agree to a point but that also has a lot to do with genre kings. What was the last JRPG that isn't FF that sold very well in NA? Pretty much non existant. Its easy to point out super successful games and say hey, here's proof but hnoestly, while Japanese games sell better in the West, unless you pour millions into marketing or are already popular due to simple creation of said franchise when console gaming was dominated by the Japanese, they don't sell as much as people would lead you to believe.
How does ME (a AA game) DA:O (a AAA game) and ME2 (a AAA game) Make bioware the best devs this gen? ... Surely, Kojima productions the developers behind Portable Ops and Peace Walker which are 2 AAAs and MGS4, a AAAA, are better devs. Oh and then theres nintendo. (Dunno which teams made what but you know which one I mean)Final Fantasy XIV is on show at Gamescom, we spoke with director Nobuaki Komoto about Square-Enix's latest MMORPG and the performance of Western developers in Japan.
We asked director Nobuaki Komoto why he feels Final Fantasy XIV will prove more accessible than the daunting Final Fantasy XI.
"We have not been creating FFXIV solely for establishing the genre of MMORPG," Komoto explains, "MMORPG has been selected as a stage for the most attractive game experience and story. I expect that any mainstream gamers, especially those who love RPGs and Final Fantasy, would find their way into the world of FFXIV with ease and start unlocking doors from one to another to enjoy new stories."
"Both are so far virtually unknown to the mass public in Japan and the sales are quite disastrous."
When NowGamer asked Komoto how he felt the game would fare against RPG heavyweights Bethesda and Bioware, the director revealed, "Although I do think both developers are creating great games, unfortunately, both are so far virtually unknown to the mass public in Japan and the sales are quite disastrous, too. They only seem to cater for a handful of core gamers."
Link.Their loss. They have been by far the best developers throughout this gen.
Zune_HD
[QUOTE="Hakkai007"][QUOTE="Birdy09"]I cant believe it, its the same syndrome people have with blizzard, a fanboy complex where they cant do any wrong. Dragon Age - a crap storied version of Baldurs Gate .... infact, other than graphics and modern talking technology :lol: its an inferior, shorter and milder game in general, yet ofc, even lacking things that NWN 1&2 brought to the picture with great online systems... whats that Bioware? couldnt be bothered? oh... but teh GS 9.5 means that DA is the top notch of this style RPG right? :roll: .... ugh. Mass Effect - Popularity heavily based on graphics AND IT BEING A SHOOTER! yea ok, fun games, but bragging about the popularity of a godamn game thats aimed at the shooter fad with very VERY light RPG elements beyond optional dialogue is laughable at best. FF13 can be mocked for its characters, its story style and linearity, but god at least they gave a damn about the combat, itemization and challenge, unlike Bioware, which barely every do those things correctly.Birdy09
Looks like someone has his rose colored glasses on...
Dragon Age was great. This is coming from a person who played Planescape Torment, which of course is better, but still DA:O is not a bad game and is quite good.
Rose Coloured Glasses on for who? DA is a short game, bland characters, bland story, im not saying it isnt a bad game, im just saying its not up to some mighty standard that gives Bioware the right to slate anyone, because its thier worst (D&D Isometric) release in terms of everything except graphics, providing less for the players, but oh wait, I guess there is more buyable DLC :roll:. And Mass Effect, while good games, are story tailored shooters, which are very easy, near challengless (yes on hard) and provide little for the player to do in terms of gear/farming/boss challenges ... theres just nothing there whatsoever, its go from point A-B-C-D but in a optional order, spiced up with "NPC Live or Die" basic options. With a main prognastic that no matter how you play him/her they do everything perfectly with no soul, perfect speaking and undeniably the most souless type around. Hell, least The Witcher was a believeable character. ok sure its because "YOU are Shepard" ... well yea I am, so this bland lifeless avatar I "role play" now makes it the best? A silly little preference that has been around for years yet is the new fad of this gen.I like the no speak avatar. Also I enjoyed the characters in Dragon Age a lot.
And DA wasn't short for me. It took me 55 hours on my first play through and I didn't even do all the side quests.
Even if it was their worst it is still a great game.
Like being the least intelligent out of the group of rocket scientists......you are still a damn smart just not as smart as the others.
You are going to have to get used to the changes as this is the future of gaming whether you like it or not.
How does ME (a AA game) DA:O (a AAA game) and ME2 (a AAA game) Make bioware the best devs this gen? ... Surely, Kojima productions the developers behind Portable Ops and Peace Walker which are 2 AAAs and MGS4, a AAAA, are better devs. Oh and then theres nintendo. (Dunno which teams made what but you know which one I mean)[QUOTE="Zune_HD"]
Final Fantasy XIV is on show at Gamescom, we spoke with director Nobuaki Komoto about Square-Enix's latest MMORPG and the performance of Western developers in Japan.
We asked director Nobuaki Komoto why he feels Final Fantasy XIV will prove more accessible than the daunting Final Fantasy XI.
"We have not been creating FFXIV solely for establishing the genre of MMORPG," Komoto explains, "MMORPG has been selected as a stage for the most attractive game experience and story. I expect that any mainstream gamers, especially those who love RPGs and Final Fantasy, would find their way into the world of FFXIV with ease and start unlocking doors from one to another to enjoy new stories."
"Both are so far virtually unknown to the mass public in Japan and the sales are quite disastrous."
When NowGamer asked Komoto how he felt the game would fare against RPG heavyweights Bethesda and Bioware, the director revealed, "Although I do think both developers are creating great games, unfortunately, both are so far virtually unknown to the mass public in Japan and the sales are quite disastrous, too. They only seem to cater for a handful of core gamers."
Link.Their loss. They have been by far the best developers throughout this gen.
hd5870corei7
Not really, its all up to interpretation and preference really. For example, Bioware made 3 RPGs, Kojima Production made 3 TPS/Stealth games and Nintendo made 3 platformers. The best will be on what youprefer really.
Just my 2 cents but you probably shouldn't include Nintendo in this type of discussion. They have a heavy hand start since they propelled console gaming to the path its on now. no western or Japanese company has ever had as successful games worldwide as they have and you don't even need to look at this gen to see that.
The west is more open to different cultured games I agree to a point but that also has a lot to do with genre kings. What was the last JRPG that isn't FF that sold very well in NA? Pretty much non existant. Its easy to point out super successful games and say hey, here's proof but hnoestly, while Japanese games sell better in the West, unless you pour millions into marketing or are already popular due to simple creation of said franchise when console gaming was dominated by the Japanese, they don't sell as much as people would lead you to believe.
ActicEdge
I mentioned SMG2 as an example of a sucessfull Japanese game in the west,wich it is. I understand that Ninty was always very popular here though,so I do see your point.
I agree,there are some specific franchises that sell better than others,but at least that´s something,while the most popular EU/US games with heavy marketing have embarrassing sales in Japan.
Even the 360,a console that was heavily marketed in Japan is way behind in terms of sales there,while the PS3(I´m leaving N out of this) sells pretty well in here as a Japanese product.
Overall,the 360 is the HD leading system in terms of sales worldwide,but that´s certainly not because of the help of the japanese market.
Arach666, Japan is becoming increasingly less xenophobic as time goes on. Young people are playing games in Japan and they don't really have a problem with America. It's an easy explanation to go by, but I don't think it's quite it.
These companies aren't known in Japan because they never put themselves on the map. Moreover, the style and "shooting" in these games isn't really that popular. "Shooting" is considered to be such a western concept, that sometimes Resident Evil is mistaken for a western game. Moreover, western games and Japanese games have totally different visual styles to them. Western gamers are constantly complaining about the style in Japanese games, but for some reason why feel compelled to buy them anyways. Japanese don't feel compelled to buy western games.
It's kind of like asking the average American how many bollywood movies they've seen. It's just not on the map.
And whats funny is that Square is pretty unknown this gen for a majority of gamers in the USA. .
BOOM.
Lol I love both Square and Bioware (Though been a much longer Square fan). But this is just pure comedy gold. And I gotta say Square kinda went for the knockout punch don't you guys think? I mean
Bioware: Square doesn't make real RPG's.
Square: You might as well not even exist in our world. :shock:
Or a Bioware game......[QUOTE="hayato_"]
[QUOTE="siLVURcross"] Least it wasn't as boring as a Bethesda game.Advid-Gamer
Edit: Oh and it was a statement. Those games don't do well because they are just boring to the public over there. Nothing more, nothing less. If anything they should try harder. Even with all the hate Square has had, most of there titles are globally wanted.
I cant even take you seriously. "THEY" are both really good developers and have and continue to put out great games. What have you done? Maybe you should try harder.
Just an observation.
Get marketing to make a better campaign. Change box art (Square does this already). Work on proper localizations. Western developers (not only RPG developers) need to try harder to crack the market and doing it on the 360 isn't gonna work first of all (more multiplats are needed). Maybe even try and put the Mass Effect or Star Wars series on the handheld. Japan just doesn't like or doesn't have a reason to like Bethesda or Biowares games. Also, why would I try harder. Its not my problem lol, (unless I get a job in marketing or something). Calm down, I don't care if you take me seriously or not.
eastern EU devs are the best. Those guys when they make a game they dont comprimise they go balls deep.
Rose Coloured Glasses on for who? DA is a short game, bland characters, bland story, im not saying it isnt a bad game, im just saying its not up to some mighty standard that gives Bioware the right to slate anyone, because its thier worst (D&D Isometric) release in terms of everything except graphics, providing less for the players, but oh wait, I guess there is more buyable DLC :roll:. And Mass Effect, while good games, are story tailored shooters, which are very easy, near challengless (yes on hard) and provide little for the player to do in terms of gear/farming/boss challenges ... theres just nothing there whatsoever, its go from point A-B-C-D but in a optional order, spiced up with "NPC Live or Die" basic options. With a main prognastic that no matter how you play him/her they do everything perfectly with no soul, perfect speaking and undeniably the most souless type around. Hell, least The Witcher was a believeable character. ok sure its because "YOU are Shepard" ... well yea I am, so this bland lifeless avatar I "role play" now makes it the best? A silly little preference that has been around for years yet is the new fad of this gen.[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="Hakkai007"]
Looks like someone has his rose colored glasses on...
Dragon Age was great. This is coming from a person who played Planescape Torment, which of course is better, but still DA:O is not a bad game and is quite good.
Hakkai007
I like the no speak avatar. Also I enjoyed the characters in Dragon Age a lot.
And DA wasn't short for me. It took me 55 hours on my first play through and I didn't even do all the side quests.
Even if it was their worst it is still a great game.
Like being the least intelligent out of the group of rocket scientists......you are still a damn smart just not as smart as the others.
You are going to have to get used to the changes as this is the future of gaming whether you like it or not.
Well so is FF13, notwhere near the best but still a decent game, yet its been treated alot harsher than DA for example. These are not "Changes" they are just what Fashion goes through, trends and fads, like I said, Bioware has been making the same game for 10 years.... barely went noticed the last 2 gens other than PC gamers, console gamers just take a generation to play catch up. Shooters (Multiplayer focused ones) have hitting a slump in PC Gaming, MMO is the new king of the platform, that goes without saying, and now consoles's dominent genre is online shooters, it follows the same pattern, next gen one thing will come and then next one will take its place. Judging Sqaure harshly on some published spin offs and FF13 is ridiculous when Bioware does not have a AAA+ spotless record either, just favouritism for making shooters and dialogue options, it will come and go.That´s not a surprise to me,the Japanese audience is very ethnocentric and is usually only focused on their market,with very few exceptions.
The Japanese should open their mind and broaden their horizons about western developed games,they are way to close minded about them,unlike we are.
They are just limiting themselves,and that´s a damn shame.
I'm just going to throw this out there because you're a PC gamer (as am I) and I've read your posts so I know you're a pretty balanced guy. I think you'd agree that PC gaming is a very non-Japanese thing. So if you were to make a PC game/port, it would be only appealing to non-Japanese consumers. If Japanese gamers are so closed-minded and Western consumers are so open-minded, why do we typically not see JRPGs on the PC? It's not like Square-Enix has an aversion to PC gaming, as they publish all of their Western developed games on the PC. Logically, if Western-gamers were truly so open-minded, certainly you'd want to get it on every platform possible (and if I recall correctly, the engine that powers FF13 was also designed for the PC) so a PC version would be a no-brainer. SE's 'The Last Remnant' was available for the PC. I didn't like hero character i.e. annoying brat.[QUOTE="LongZhiZi"][QUOTE="Arach666"]I'm just going to throw this out there because you're a PC gamer (as am I) and I've read your posts so I know you're a pretty balanced guy. I think you'd agree that PC gaming is a very non-Japanese thing. So if you were to make a PC game/port, it would be only appealing to non-Japanese consumers. If Japanese gamers are so closed-minded and Western consumers are so open-minded, why do we typically not see JRPGs on the PC? It's not like Square-Enix has an aversion to PC gaming, as they publish all of their Western developed games on the PC. Logically, if Western-gamers were truly so open-minded, certainly you'd want to get it on every platform possible (and if I recall correctly, the engine that powers FF13 was also designed for the PC) so a PC version would be a no-brainer. SE's 'The Last Remnant' was available for the PC. I didn't like hero character i.e. annoying brat.That´s not a surprise to me,the Japanese audience is very ethnocentric and is usually only focused on their market,with very few exceptions.
The Japanese should open their mind and broaden their horizons about western developed games,they are way to close minded about them,unlike we are.
They are just limiting themselves,and that´s a damn shame.
ronvalencia
Puting aside cultural things SE games are clearly not made with a PC in mind. Even if the games are good they feel lackluster on a PC even beyond the basic porting work. For the Japanese a gaming PC is basically only for MMO's and visual novels.
So pretty much what they are saying is Japanese people like JRPG, and American people like WRPG. Wow this is a breakthrough. Who would have ever thought that?
Well at least Bioware and Square have one thing in common: Their games have sucked this gen.
[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]
[QUOTE="hayato_"] Or a Bioware game......
Edit: Oh and it was a statement. Those games don't do well because they are just boring to the public over there. Nothing more, nothing less. If anything they should try harder. Even with all the hate Square has had, most of there titles are globally wanted.
hayato_
I cant even take you seriously. "THEY" are both really good developers and have and continue to put out great games. What have you done? Maybe you should try harder.
Just an observation.
Get marketing to make a better campaign. Change box art (Square does this already). Work on proper localizations. Western developers (not only RPG developers) need to try harder to crack the market and doing it on the 360 isn't gonna work first of all (more multiplats are needed). Maybe even try and put the Mass Effect or Star Wars series on the handheld. Japan just doesn't like or doesn't have a reason to like Bethesda or Biowares games. Also, why would I try harder. Its not my problem lol, (unless I get a job in marketing or something). Calm down, I don't care if you take me seriously or not.
Still, what have YOU done?Why are some so offended by this? It is true, what's the problem?nintendo-4lifeIt's insane that a game like Fallout 3 or Dragon Age wouldn't be popular over there. If some foreign culture had awesome games I would want to get my hands on what their playing
[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]Why are some so offended by this? It is true, what's the problem?GunSmith1_basicIt's insane that a game like Fallout 3 or Dragon Age wouldn't be popular over there. If some foreign culture had awesome games I would want to get my hands on what their playing That's not the point of this thread though. Both companies have no influence what so ever there. It's just the sad truth. SE also acknowledged the great games they are making but the market simply isn't interested. Rather than bashing SE wouldn't be better to discuss what actually went wrong?
[QUOTE="hayato_"][QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]
I cant even take you seriously. "THEY" are both really good developers and have and continue to put out great games. What have you done? Maybe you should try harder.
Advid-Gamer
Just an observation.
Get marketing to make a better campaign. Change box art (Square does this already). Work on proper localizations. Western developers (not only RPG developers) need to try harder to crack the market and doing it on the 360 isn't gonna work first of all (more multiplats are needed). Maybe even try and put the Mass Effect or Star Wars series on the handheld. Japan just doesn't like or doesn't have a reason to like Bethesda or Biowares games. Also, why would I try harder. Its not my problem lol, (unless I get a job in marketing or something). Calm down, I don't care if you take me seriously or not.
Still, what have YOU done?Played them 8)
They´re not xenophobic,they´re ethnocentric. And so do many Westerners (look at the NPD threads where many are concerned over North American sales and quickly dismiss European and Japanese sales; also the judging of Japanese gaming tastes). We are not better than they are.[QUOTE="felipebo"]
Makes sense, Japanese are known for being xenophobic.
Japan may never accept me as one of their own, but I'll cointinue to love JRPGs.
Arach666
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