Steam Needs Quality Control

How is the console killing PC in quality when you just admitted that what I said was true?

I don't mind.

If I'm skeptical of a game not working (and not through fault of my own hardware issues, but because the developer is terrible) then I'll read about it.

I'm not going to sacrifice the openness of PC to save myself from potentially playing a broken game once every 5 years or so. It's an incredibly rare issue. I've experienced two in the last gen, and I know console gamers have also gotten to experience a handful of them as well. Only difference is I can typically fix the issues in a few minutes when they do come up. On consoles it could take weeks, or months, or it may never happen. How long was Skyrim broken on PS3 for?

you can't pull the wool over my eyes on this one - i've read enough jim sterling to know he supports playstation.

I wonder if CrownKingArthur could pull my sword out.

@Shielder7: read this - http://www.destructoid.com/the-ultimate-pc-gamer-to-do-list-155752.phtml

2009, november 22nd. authored by jim sterling.

he is clearly writing a satirical parody, fakeboying as a pc gamer - showing intent to troll, flamebait pc gamers - he is anti pc gamers.

i reject your claim "Jim sterling is primarily a PC supporter anyone that even occasionally watches his stuff would know"

so yes you are correct, i don't even lie good - i'm telling the truth.

You undermined your own post by being a disrespectful ignorant little twat, which eliminated all possibility of having a proper discussion, not that you ever intended to have one to begin with anyway.

Man, it's almost like there are sites you can go to that review games and can tell you if a game is broken.

Avoiding to answer,as usual.

Keep hiding

Xbox 360 and PS3 Are Just Very Crap PCs

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6014-Xbox-360-and-PS3-Are-Just-Very-Crap-PCs

Why PC Gaming Gets Away With It

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7586-Why-PC-Gaming-Gets-Away-With-It

Children of the Resolution

www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/steam-needs-quality-control-31060895/?messageId=342098475&page=3#js-message-105

Are you ready to admit you're wrong yet? 3 different videos from 3 different time points. You know just because he's not completely brain dead like some hermits here I won't mention by completely ignoring PCs faults while endlessly faping to it doesn't mean he's not a PC fan. You can criticize something you like surprise surprise.

Only Complete idiotic fanboys refuse to criticize something they like. I like Playstation but the Cell was a mistake, Not having backwards capability is a bad joke and requiring PSN+ to play online is Greedy BS taken straight from the pages of Microsoft in order to sell you the game you bought in bits and pieces.

lol - three articles all of which were written after the article i posted - which proved he's nothing more than a divisive fakeboy troll.

his opinion is worthless. my opinions are worthless. your opinions are worthless.

yeah let's discuss them - but to give merit to another person's opinion, and to project your feeling of merit for that person's opinion onto others - that's a bit ridiculous.

you should give up here. you cannot change the contents of my head, and i couldn't give a toss if you don't like what i think. the door swings both ways.

good day.

And if those "Videos" were released before you would of said.

lol - three articles all of which were written before the article i posted - which proved he's nothing more than a divisive fakeboy troll as his current opinion PC gaming isn't good.

And no someones opinion can be more valid if they actually know what they're talking about and use facts to back them up. I have no intention of changing anything in your head because it's obviously broken at this point. You're attacking your own which makes you look incredibly stupid.....er. Jim sterling is primarily a PC supporter even since the Dungeon keeper days. Like I said you can like something and still criticize and poke fun at, something most hermits are to ignorant to understand. I'm done with you period from now on you're just going to get " I think he's either incredible crazy or tremulously stupid" response something only 2 other people here have managed to accomplish you should be proud.

Agreed, alot of those early access titles are a complete joke. As well as the ones that get greenlit.

The greenlit system especially, It's just severely flawed. For example a few months back, Idk about now but there were so many freaking slender clones, and they all looked like shit. Where actual games that had an interesting premise, and or took a more unique stance were just left on the backburner and have been since.

I've also played some early access titles that were barely in Alpha already being charged money for. There's of course some diamonds in the rough but there's also Alooooooot of shit in there.

how do you know what i would have said? i was actually going to talk about umbrellas, but instead i will respond to your new post.

i used proof to show he's an incisive flamebater - not exactly someone with a reputation for honesty. why do you omit this evidence in your analysis? facts don't add up to say his opinion is worth listening to.

which brings me to my next point, your repeated assertion that i think i'm some kind of god tier gamer by gaming on pc, and finding the platform faultless - that's not accurate.

firstly - let me remind you i was the first one to mention 'proper discussion', and i mentioned it along with steam early access. totalbiscuit criticised steam's early access for a number of reasons, mainly that it gives developers the excuse to revenue gather from unfinished games - having thought about it i share this opinion on the subject. that's just one criticism of pc gaming. we could have had that proper discussion.

i would also say a fair criticism of the platform is steam drm, its put a stop to loaning and selling used games on the pc platform - something which can still occur on consoles, and to many that's an advantage. also on consoles you can choose to be a digital consumer. i'm sure you remember my purchase of dark souls on 360?

despite these criticisms and more, my opinion is pc is the best platform.

but anyway, just wanted to share a couple of opinions from my 'broken' head. of course - you can have an opinion about these opinions and you can have an opinion about me and i can't change either of those things.

Consoles need Quality-....period...

Seriously, less AAA/AA than PC when combining all 3 consoles.....thats weak sauce son. Less Knack/Ryse/Killzone and more Mario/Zelda which got a 10.0 (which ironically is better on PC).

@Shielder7:

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Games/XboxIndieGames

dem quality control

I told him I wasn't going to bother reading anything he put again or reply other than with stupid ducks before he replied. For the reason read my above post

Depends on your PC now doesn't it Oh and..........

Shaming PC Ports Because Why Not?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/8545-Shaming-PC-Ports-Because-Why-Not

I'm going to ask this again since you ignored it the first time. What exactly is the problem with not having this quality control? Yes, lots of bad games are released but you literally (for the most part) have to try to look for these bad games. Looking on the front screen of steam I see maybe one or two games that I'd consider horrible games. But then you can take a look inside and see whether or not the community thinks they're a bad game or not (if you're into other's opinions) and then can quite clearly stay away from the shit games. I'd assume all of this would be a problem if you're not particularly bright, but if you have half a brain cell you will be able to tell a game isn't worth your time with some basic research.

Do I even have to answer this? I mean you're just trolling me because I decided to ignore you in the EA thread right or have hermits really become generally this stupid that they don't understand why something needs QC? If you truly don't understand why QC is important from the video I won't be able to beat it into that thick head of yours so it's pointless. QC is already taking a back seat to "We'll fix it latter in a patch" The last thing the games industry needs is even less QC.

@Shielder7 said:

@soulitane said:

I'm going to ask this again since you ignored it the first time. What exactly is the problem with not having this quality control?

Do I even have to answer this? I mean you're just trolling me because I decided to ignore you in the EA thread right or have hermits really become generally this stupid that they don't understand why something needs QC? If you truly don't understand why QC is important from the video I won't be able to beat it into that thick head of yours so it's pointless. QC is already taking a back seat to "We'll fix it latter in a patch" The last thing the games industry needs is even less QC.

Take a look at the time stamps, I posted this before I posted in that EA thread, but lets ignore that little tidbit because I don't want to bog your mind down.

Let's now address your other points. I addressed in my other post simply having low quality games, and pointed out how they are very easily ignored on steam. In fact, it's far easier to ignore those games on steam than in a physical store for the reasons I stated.

Your point now is about patching games that were badly made. I saw the video you posted earlier (well like half of it) about bad ports from console to PC. Those games on consoles were also broken to some extent. I'm not sure about Dark Souls but Demon Souls had horrible frame rate drops and I do think I heard Dark Souls has them too. Deadly Premonitions and both PS3 and 360 has horrible graphics (in the 360's case it's 480p) and frame rate drops. Then there's Bethesda's games which also suffer game breaking bugs on consoles and for Skyrim on PS3 is literally had a count down to where it would become unplayable due to being run at around a single frame per second or something like that.

So your point is that this is a problem on PC but it is also a problem on consoles, just look at Bayonetta. With the inclusion of patches it will become a problem on all platforms. The PC on the other hand has the benefit of having a community to fix up these problems while consoles don't. So while consoles are stuck with whatever the dev gives them or decides to patch, the PC version can be fixed (sometimes quite fast) by other people meaning in the end it holds the best version of the game.

So, now I'm curious as to why you're focusing on steam in this thread when it is already a problem across all platforms?

System Wars needs quality control.

I think Shielder is upset when he saw the games count for this gen.

Well ignoring how your points about QC are completely redundant and if you bothered watching the video all the way through you would of seen how publishers on Steam get to mod their own steam forums and store page comments, filtering out negative comments and criticism while bumping up positive reviews. This squiring the narrative making their ***** games look way better than they are is making it impossible for consumers to successfully filter out the crap, if they did War Z wouldn't have made the money it did and it deserved Zero.

If you honestly can't see why this is a problem or how it relates to QC I honestly can't do anything for you. This type of QA/QC doesn't exist on consoles or at least no where near as severe. Has there been a few bad ports on the PS 3? Sure where they as abundant and severe %$#& NO!

Sure Bayonettas load times were atrocious, Skyrim was filled with bugs but it wasn't near as bad as the utter shit you find on steam, I know because I played and have both those games for the PS 3 and although buggy they're far from unplayable.. The console department could use a few lessons in QC for sure, but it's leaps and bounds ahead of steam, you're literately comparing a hill to a mountain.

I really don't don't know how any %$&* wit can say the games industry should do away with QC altogether after the whole BF 4 debacle and BF 4 still worked better than most steam games. People wonder why I don't PC game anymore and this is a good %^&*ing example.

Next time, try actually reading as those points rebutted the video you had just posted. I'm not watching the whole video you posted, I did watch it part of the way and all his examples were already poorly made games on consoles, so I don't really care about his opinion on the matter.

Now, your first point holds no point what so ever as the reviews are purely user based, ie the users can vote for them. Then if you're going to complain that they devs are bumping up the positive reviews, check out the negative ones to see what the problems with the game are.

I don't see it as a problem when someone with half a brain cell can see when a game is bad for the most part. Like I said, there are things put in place to tell you if a game is bad or not, which you're conveniently ignoring. Yes, if a game is just released there won't be reviews, like War Z, but that is a problem on consoles too. Just look at that new Aliens Game, people jumped in and were disappointed. While it might not be as bad of a game, the point still stands that buying any game on day one is a risk in itself in terms of quality.

BF4 on every platform is (or was) a horrible mess, not just on PC, all the consoles as far as I've heard have suffered problems. So again, that's not a point against PC, it's a point against EA.

So I'll sum it all up again. If you can't tell the quality games from the bad games on steam then that's your own problem. There are no restrictions to making a game on PC, so of course there will be a lot of shit, it's up to the user to determine what's bad and what's good. If you can't take the time to do some very quick research about what you're going to buy then I consider it your own fault that you bought a bad game no the store that supplied it.

i have never had too many problems with it.

the only thing i ever bought that flat out didn't play was company of heros and (it is some weird monitor compatibility problem) it was a dollar so i never even put any effort into figuring out what was wrong.

Steam is fine. It's just a store. His complaint like saying iTunes should ban certain musicians because they don't like the "quality" of music they make. That's dumb. That's for consumers and critics to decide. Especially for a digital storefront where you don't have a limit on shelf space and practically no storage issues assuming you can sell at least like $50 in profit a day.

Ok I cut most of your crap out because it was pointless fluff and none of your points holds holds any value because they're on the verge of being completely absurd.

A consumer can't make an informed choice if the ratings system for the game is being hijacked and defrauded, the devs are desperately suppressing how awful their games truly are. There isn't many ways to realize that you've invested in a dud before you've sunk some money into it. Not to mention shifting through all the BS and trying to figure out what's a legitimate comment/score and what's contrived is way too much work than the average consumer should have to do, and also one of the reasons I'm personally turned off by PC gaming and I hardly think I'm alone.

You can't blame consumers when devs are actively scamming them and preventing them from having all the facts. Not that I would expect a blind hermit like you to grasp such a concept that thinks QC needs to be tossed out altogether for no other legitimate reason than there precious STEAM is being criticized for it.

I'd try reading what I wrote again then, since it was to do with the video you posted and how stupid his complaints about those games were.

Then simply google the game. It takes a few seconds to get to the user reviews on a site like metacritic or a forum post complaining about how bad a game is. People should be doing a little bit of research before they buy any game. Or, you could look up gameplay and see if it's your cup of tea. Steam also puts the metacritic score nicely on the side of the page, so if that's your thing, you can go there.

Now where do you get the idea that I'm a blind hermit? Because I'm arguing with you about Steam? If that's all the evidence you have then boy you really can't hold an argument. Now please do tell me how I'm a blind Hermit, other wise I may get bored of this and go back to playing Bioshock Infinite on my PS3.

Devs wouldn't be able to scam people if they simply did research before buying rather than just throwing their money at any game with a well written concept. Of course an open platform is going to have a lot of bad games, as there is nothing stopping them from releasing on it. It comes down to the consumers to determine if a game holds value for them. If you don't do any sort of research when purchasing a game that costs enough money for you to feel ripped off by, then yes I do consider that your own fault. Games are no different to any other medium in terms of quality. You'll have a large amount of shit and a more select number of great games, movies, books or music. The only reason that they get away with it is because people still buy it, the same reason why we still get milked for DLC, the same reason why we pay for online and the same reason why microtransactions are now popping up in more and more games, people pay money for this shit so they continue to make it. So yes I can blame consumers as they are the ones enabling them to keep on scamming, if they jump in too fast with all these games and don't learn from their mistake then they're just asking for it to continue. I apologise that I actually want people to think for themselves instead of aimlessly throwing money at every other project that's got cool sounding ideas.

No you're wrong just like your bad opinion on how great Origin is is wrong. Your rationality of defending devs for knowingly putting out broken / bad products and than doing their best to hid and edit that fact boarders on the line of mentally insane and is beyond stupid. No different than defending EA for Dungeon Keeper.

You're either purposely not getting it to support you brain dead argument or are a complete tool. Either way it's pointless to continue so I'll just quote the piece of logic that only a complete moron would try and refute. And encase you're wondering no I didn't bother reading most of your crap.

A consumer can't make an informed choice if the ratings system for the game is being hijacked and defrauded, the devs are desperately suppressing how awful their games truly are. There isn't many ways to realize that you've invested in a dud before you've sunk some money into it.

You can't blame consumers when devs are actively scamming them and preventing them from having all the facts.

and if you're not going to read my post, then how do you know it's crap? Try reading it, because it answers your last to bolded points quite nicely. But I'll sum it up quite nicely for you. There are other places to get information for games other than Steam.

Now, let's look at this whole situation logically. You want Steam to enforce quality control. That would mean that before a game gets put on Steam someone from Valve would need to play the entire game. That requires two things, money and time. The money is needed to pay people and hire new people to play these games. Time would be obviously needed to play through these games. That means that the developers would need to then pay Valve to sit there and play through their games just so they can get released and thus a quality product be placed on their store. That means two things for the consumer, an increased cost in games as devs will be needing to pay Valve for the testing of their game and less games released on Steam as more niche indie games will have an even harder time getting put onto the store. So how is that ideal from a consumers perspective? It's best that people just grow a brain and realise that throwing money at every cool sounding project it a stupid endeavor and they should be more careful with their money.

Now, this time try actually reading because to me it just seems like you have absolutely no counter arguments and you're really showing how poor you are at holding an argument. The latter is true as you've shown on two occasions as when you disagree you just ignore the points instead of refuting them which as I said before leads me to believe you can't (or perhaps you're just not smart enough to). So please do try as you're really starting to bore me.

I rest my case, no excuses for Steam letting Devs defraud their consumers by editing and filtering out negative comments and criticism.

@Shielder7: You need post quality control. that is a fact.

@Shielder7: and again, you try and refute me by taking exerts out of a whole post which have nothing to do with what you're actually saying. So instead of making a fool of yourself, sit down, read my comments and then get back to me.

I'm not sure why I need to make an excuse for a company. However, I have pointed out the fact that there are many ways to not get defrauded by a company. Seeing as you've ignored them, I'm only going to assume that you have no way of refuting my points and are only going to continue quoting very small parts of my post so as to make yourself think you're actually contributing to this argument.

Like I said in my previous, there are multiple sources a person can look to get an idea on a game, steam doesn't have to be one of those. So now, read what I've said and try again.

I remember telling you that I do enjoy talking to idiots sometimes, but you're on a whole different level. Even some of the worse trolls on here can hold a better argument than you.

You can make that statement about any product and it's going to fall flat for the same reasons every time. There are multiple sources a person can look to get an idea on just about anything, but I'm not about to throw away false advertizing laws and the FDA on that pretense.

When companies are not only purposely lying and defruding their consumers, but also slicing criticism it's bad. It's bad for the industry and it's bad for consumers, if it wasn't cigarette companies would still be telling us Smoking is good for us while throwing out disinformation to the contrary.

I haven't addressed your so called points because they haven't done anything to discredit or debunk the original topic except maybe in your demented mined. Before you start calling anyone an idiot look at your own argument and than in the mirror, because your argument makes no sense period.

You can't blame consumers when devs are actively scamming them and preventing them from having all the facts.

and again, you haven't proved a single thing, you've repeated the same thing every time. If my points makes no sense, then prove it. Until you can actually formulate a proper rebuttal then I'm done with you.

That last line, the one you've been spamming for your last few posts has been proven wrong by me on multiple occasions. People can easily do research on the product, devs aren't stopping people from googling yet you act as if steam is the only source of information on a game. So yes, I can blame consumers who fall for the same thing over and over again without even thinking if they're going to be wasting their money. Let's look at an example to prove that people just like to throw their money at stuff without even thinking. 7 Ways to Die is on the Steam top sellers list, going onto the page for it and scrolling down to the reviews shows that every single review for the game is negative and they do not recommend it. People however choose to ignore that and continue to buy the game. You complain that I blame the consumers, but all the information is right there for them, they choose to ignore it and continue to buy any shit with a cool idea. People are idiots, any smart person could see the game is bad and ignore it, that is with all the facts as you like to say.

So again, take your time, think of an actual response, and then get back to me.

Nether have you and I don't have to prove anything the video did that for me, and the only one who hasn't be able to come up with a proper rebuttal is you. You want me to prove you make no sense? I think you've done a well enough Job on that on your own, but the Fact QC is such an important part of any business model and even required by law in some areas pretty much refutes any lame brain attempt you can come up with to discredit it.

Although I digress I actually have no idea why I'm arguing with you. The despite the fact I'm 100% right and you're 100% wrong as well as batshit crazy if you think Steam or any other business doesn't need QC. I actually hope they do what you suggest.

To Quote Jim Sterling in the video you never bothered watching all the way through.

"It can't last this kind of business model, one that favors total market saturation over customer satisfaction, Quality guarantee and ones own credibility is so short sighted I'm surprised any company still goes for it."

You can't say these devs aren't making money off of a whole bunch of people with this shady business practice. If they weren't it wouldn't be a problem because no one would be doing it and these devs that were would be going under instead of multiplying.

You see with no QC people(lots of people) on steam are just going to get fed up and forgo Steam and maybe PC gaming altogether and perhaps look at the Greener Grass the PS 4 has to offer.

So again you ignore my point, which proves that even when given all the information people will flock to shit. The problem you have is not being able to accept the opinions of others, which is quite a simple minded point of view. I haven't said you're wrong, but you're really trying hard to ignore the other side of the coin. There are two sides to every argument whether you like it or not, you're simply fixated on the idea that someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong.

You're also putting words in my mouth, where did I say that no business needs QC? Oh right, I didn't, which you'd know if you bothered to actually read rather than just ignore. This is all very amusing, you say I'm wrong, put words in my mouth and yet aren't smart enough to actually prove me wrong. Since you need a video to do that all for you, I'm inclined to say that your intelligence is rather lacking, which has been shown by your complete lack of reading skills.

You ignored the only logical way of implementing QC onto steam and then continue to say that there needs to be quality control.

I'll put it quite clearly for you then. Stem releases a number of games daily, in order to have quality control, Valve or a company paid by Valve will need to play every single one of those games. That's a lot of time and money being put into assuring that only quality is released on Steam. That begs the question of who's going to pay for that? Valve sure as hell aren't going to, that means the devs will. If the devs have to pay for it that means less games on steams as smaller indie devs can't afford to go through that. It also means a whole lot less games on steam as the time it would take to assure all of them are quality and promise what they say will be too high to be able to play every single one of them. That again means the more niche games will suffer as that is the smart thing for Valve to do, priorities the bigger games over smaller games.

Of course they make money off of it, where have I denied that? They make money off of it because people are stupid, as I showed in my previous post but like most of my other points you deleted it (which as far as I know is against the rules of this site) and ignored it. People will flock to this shit because that's what they do. If people were smarted then the devs wouldn't get away with it. I am actually quite curious as to why you ignored that part of it, as it goes to show that these games do sell, but I guess it goes against your idea that the devs hide all the flaws in their game.

You're saying that people will move away from steam as there becomes more and more bad games, I wholeheartedly disagree. People have spent hundreds of dollars on steam and then you think they're going to drop it all because there are a lot of bad games on the store? That's illogical in itself, steam is continuing to increase in users and continues to make a lot of money off its sales. Until their numbers start to slip, I'm inclined to say that people stopping using steam is wishful thinking.

http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

Don't ever compare PS4 to PC. Not the sub-par gfx, not the low fps, not the shoddy online...and sure as **** not the games as my link proves.

If you say so.

PS3 has highest quality bro.

Dat AAAAE MGS4

PC has higher quality AND quantity.

Like I said, i'd rather have 100 more AAA/AA's than 1 more AAAA.

You must have trouble understanding. You can't have higher quality when MGS4 is a 10, and no PC game is a 10. 10 > 9.5 , 9.0 , 8.5 , 8.0 , 7.5 ... etc. 10 is the highest value number on a scale from 1 to 10. Basic maths bro.

PS3 has higher quality, PC has higher quantity.

and as for AAAA vs 100 AAA/AAs, No way in hell are there 100 more AAAs/AAs on PC than on any of the consoles

I'd rather have ONE mindblowing game that I will remember for the rest of my life than to play 20 games of which all will be forgotten in a matter of months after completion.

@Mozelleple112: Questions:

How many times did you beat MGS4?

How many times did you beat UC3?

How many times have you revisited TLOU?

Have you even replayed Beyond: Two souls?

After asking these, i'm looking at my steam list, and according to it (only gonna list the PC exclusives)

Spiral Knights: 233 hours

Killing Floor: 156 hours

The Binding of Isaac: 145 hours (would have more registered if there wasn't an issue with this game and steam hours)

Garry's mod: 129 hours

And those aren't excactly getting perfect 10/10 scores on metacritic, and some i'm still playing along with others that i just started and plan to give them a go in the long run

And if you ask me? I'd rather have 20 games that people would consider "Forgettable" than being stuck with playing only one game for a long time, i'd rather have something to play than something to brag about (although the PC does have in fact more high rated exclusives than all consoles combined)

Especially when the game in question(MGS4) is about 5 to 6 hours long without the horrificly long,poorly edited cutscenes.

Also,we´re just talking about a 10 on GS,because otherwise there are hundreds of PC games that got 10´s(or perfect scores in general) in most websites and magazines,and with higher average scores than MGS4.