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They're the only thing that matter
Like Metal Gear 4? well thanks the sales of 1-3
Like GTA4? Thank previous sales
Happy about Mario? Thank his line of selling titles
Sales are the only thing in the industry that matter
Anyone who says otherwise is doing a great job lying to themselves
Sales will always matter no matter how much you argue against it. Just like Quality will always matter just like quantity will always matter. Everything matters. Why are people trying to say it doesn't?BumFluff122
agreed, everything matters.
Sales do matter to that extent. But if you have huge sells but only a handful of must buy games in a sea of awful games (in the case of the Wii), I'd rather go with the console with the better games (the Xbox 360, IMO).What's important to YOU is that you have the most fun (no matter the sales). Y'know what I'm saying?They're the only thing that matter
Like Metal Gear 4? well thanks the sales of 1-3
Like GTA4? Thank previous sales
Happy about Mario? Thank his line of selling titlesSales are the only thing in the industry that matter
Anyone who says otherwise is doing a great job lying to themselves
Jaysonguy
[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]Sales do matter to that extent. But if you have huge sells but only a handful of must buy games in a sea of awful games (in the case of the Wii), I'd rather go with the console with the better games (the Xbox 360, IMO).What's important to YOU is that you have the most fun (no matter the sales). Y'know what I'm saying?They're the only thing that matter
Like Metal Gear 4? well thanks the sales of 1-3
Like GTA4? Thank previous sales
Happy about Mario? Thank his line of selling titlesSales are the only thing in the industry that matter
Anyone who says otherwise is doing a great job lying to themselves
gmc2u_64
You have a good point. When people say that the Wii has a load of poor titles.....they dont ask themselves "by whos standards?". I believe that the Wii/DS will never fall into second place. The Wii and DS has a wider fanbase or target than any other console. PERIOD. If you were buying for your 8 year old nephew or son...your getting a Wii or DS, If your buying for your Parents...the chances are high that you will be getting the Wii. People dont really purchase gifts etc as much for adults as much as children.
The entire family picks up games for kids, you might go to bestbuy think about your kid or neice or cousin and see a pony game and just get it. The cycle will just keep going, grandma might want something simple to keep her attention....will she want MGS4? Gears 2? or Wii Sports?
Sales even matter if you dont care about sales....for example I love PRIZEFIGHTER. thats a game that EVERYONE hates...I love it, but I cant play it online because its hard to get a match. I think sales might have something to do with that.
In some ways yes, but just because a console or a specific game doesn't sell well doesn't mean that it isn't a quality console or game. Games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Sins of a Solar Empire on PC don't have the greatest sales, but man are they amazing games that truely deliver an experience that few other games can come close to.arto1223
Actually both STALKER and Sins sold well...very well.
STALKER sold 2-3 million, which was huge for a developer who had no previous experience with FPS's...and Sins sold over 500,000...which may not seem like a lot, but bear in mind the game was developed with a small budget of a million...and managed to pull a pretty massive profit. So large in fact, that the developer opened a second studio.
[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]Sales do matter to that extent. But if you have huge sells but only a handful of must buy games in a sea of awful games (in the case of the Wii), I'd rather go with the console with the better games (the Xbox 360, IMO).What's important to YOU is that you have the most fun (no matter the sales). Y'know what I'm saying?They're the only thing that matter
Like Metal Gear 4? well thanks the sales of 1-3
Like GTA4? Thank previous sales
Happy about Mario? Thank his line of selling titlesSales are the only thing in the industry that matter
Anyone who says otherwise is doing a great job lying to themselves
gmc2u_64
I understand your posotion
What's fun to me is knowing that the things I like keep being made
If there's a great game but no one buys it I don't like it as much as I want to because I know it's dead in the water
If there's a game I like AND it's selling well I feel even better playing it because I know more is coming after this.
[QUOTE="gmc2u_64"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]Sales do matter to that extent. But if you have huge sells but only a handful of must buy games in a sea of awful games (in the case of the Wii), I'd rather go with the console with the better games (the Xbox 360, IMO).What's important to YOU is that you have the most fun (no matter the sales). Y'know what I'm saying?They're the only thing that matter
Like Metal Gear 4? well thanks the sales of 1-3
Like GTA4? Thank previous sales
Happy about Mario? Thank his line of selling titlesSales are the only thing in the industry that matter
Anyone who says otherwise is doing a great job lying to themselves
IIJuggaNottII
You have a good point. When people say that the Wii has a load of poor titles.....they dont ask themselves "by whos standards?". I believe that the Wii/DS will never fall into second place. The Wii and DS has a wider fanbase or target than any other console. PERIOD. If you were buying for your 8 year old nephew or son...your getting a Wii or DS, If your buying for your Parents...the chances are high that you will be getting the Wii. People dont really purchase gifts etc as much for adults as much as children.
The entire family picks up games for kids, you might go to bestbuy think about your kid or neice or cousin and see a pony game and just get it. The cycle will just keep going, grandma might want something simple to keep her attention....will she want MGS4? Gears 2? or Wii Sports?
Sales even matter if you dont care about sales....for example I love PRIZEFIGHTER. thats a game that EVERYONE hates...I love it, but I cant play it online because its hard to get a match. I think sales might have something to do with that.
Well, as long as they have fun, I won't care what they play (opinions). The most important thing is that people have fun. Am I right?Sales will always matter no matter how much you argue against it. Just like Quality will always matter just like quantity will always matter. Everything matters. Why are people trying to say it doesn't?BumFluff122Well the the reason sales matter is if a game does well it gives the dev more money for development cost for a better sequel. But in if Game X sells more than Game Y is it better? No way Jose
No sales don't matter, at least as far as SW goes.
I had this to say about it a couple months ago:
I think you are all missing the point of the whole "you can't play sales/ sales don't matter" argument. I'll try my best to clarify.
Everyone agrees that sales are critical for a console's success, at least as far as the business side of things are concerned. No one disagrees. A console that sells like hotcakes, i.e. the Wii, is far more successful than a console that has sluggish sales i.e. the Dreamcast. No one debates this fact. Why? Because no one cares.
That's right. Real gamers don't care whether their console of choice is a success from a business point of view. That just doesn't matter. What does matter however, are the games that they get to play on their console. From a gamer's point of view, this is all that matters. Thus, a system that has a great lineup, is a better system than one without one, regardless of sales. Why is this? Don't we care about the well being of the console maker? Of course we do, but sadly, they won't be giving a cut of the profits, the only thing they'll give us, are the games. Thus, whether in victory or defeat, a console is judged solely by the games it had. It's ironic that you mentioned the Dreamcast as a "failure" because most gamers who actually owned a Dreamcast look back on it fondly, and as an excellent system.
"Now then, what about the software sales? Don't tie-in rates matter? Doesn't it matter how many copies a game sells on each system? And Agentfred, don't you know that selling boatloads of copies will lead to more games? And are you so heartless that you don't care whether a game succeeds or not?"
Software sale's follow the same principle as Hardware sale's do. By this I mean, if you are truly concerned about playing games, then the number of copies a games sells doesn't matter, only the quality of the game does. To prove my point, I'll draw upon the analogy between System Shock 2, and 50 Cent's Bulletproof. Yes I know, you've seen it a thousand times before, but that doesn't make it any less effective. System Shock 2 was a simply amazing game, no one can deny, yet it failed in terms of sales. Bulletproof however, outsold it by a great margin, but was a terrible game. No matter how many times Bulletproof outsells SS2, it'll still be the worse game.
Before I move on let me recap that part: Software sales mean nothing to gamer, when it comes to playing games. Remember, hamburgers sell more than steaks.
"But wait! Everyone knows that if a game sells lots of copies, the developers will prosper, and make more games for your system! Thus, sales are important to gamers, and you're wrong agentfred!" A powerful argument it seems, yet it is still flawed. In this case, sales are a means to an end, meaning that sales are the cause of quality games. However, untill those games materialize, it's all just theory. At the end of the day, if those sales haven't made more quality games, than the gamer loses, regardless of how many copies he bought. So, again, the only thing that matters is the amount of quality games on a system. If sales help to increase that, great, but alone, those sales mean nothing.
"Are you just a complete jerk?" Yes. "Do you care about the developers at all?" I sure do. Don't get me wrong, I hope every single good game out their succeeds, and sells millions of copies. I feel for developers when the get the short end of the stick, and I'm happy for them when the get a hit on their hands. Still, however I feel about the developers, it doesn't effect my enjoyment of a game, nor the system it is on. As such, this isn't an effective argument in System Wars.
--------------
Alright then, now that I've written a long post, allow me to summarize.
Hardware/Software sales are one factor of success, quality is another. I, as a gamer, only care about the latter.
Do sales matter? Yes sir. Do they matter to me? Not even a little.
I hope I clarified this for even one person, because I spent way to much time writting this. :P
agentfred
I'm of the firm opinion that we should just judge games and not speculate on sales=games cause this is afterall, the multiplatform generation. Eddie-Vedder
Again. I can understand that, but when you say WE I believe that this is a hardcore site. I dont believe that the consumer that made the Wii number one this gen is represented on this site, or majority of sites. It will be MGS4, Gears 2 all day long....Mario Galaxy wont get many nods, or most of the Wii games. Like I stated Sales gives a better outlook of what EVERYONE thought about games.
[QUOTE="gmc2u_64"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]Sales do matter to that extent. But if you have huge sells but only a handful of must buy games in a sea of awful games (in the case of the Wii), I'd rather go with the console with the better games (the Xbox 360, IMO).What's important to YOU is that you have the most fun (no matter the sales). Y'know what I'm saying?They're the only thing that matter
Like Metal Gear 4? well thanks the sales of 1-3
Like GTA4? Thank previous sales
Happy about Mario? Thank his line of selling titlesSales are the only thing in the industry that matter
Anyone who says otherwise is doing a great job lying to themselves
Jaysonguy
I understand your posotion
What's fun to me is knowing that the things I like keep being made
If there's a great game but no one buys it I don't like it as much as I want to because I know it's dead in the water
If there's a game I like AND it's selling well I feel even better playing it because I know more is coming after this.
Good point. In my opinion, fun and sales are 50-50 important (as long as there are a bunch of good games, btw).Yep.Thats the bottom line.
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]Sales will always matter no matter how much you argue against it. Just like Quality will always matter just like quantity will always matter. Everything matters. Why are people trying to say it doesn't?Animal-MotherWell the the reason sales matter is if a game does well it gives the dev more money for development cost for a better sequel. But in if Game X sells more than Game Y is it better? No way JoseWho cares if it's better or not? Sales matter because the developer makes money. Everything matters in the gaming community. The problem with the vast majority of the posts in SW that argue between what ganme or what console is better is that they don't specifiy better at what? Better at sales? Better gameplay? Better graphics? Better at walking your dog? If you personally enjoy graphics over something else then that is what matters to you but it might not matter to someone else. Just like if someone works for the company that develops a game your damn right sales do matter to them. Everything matter. Sales mattered to playstation fans last gen but not this gen. SW is full of weird weird stuff.
[QUOTE="IIJuggaNottII"] Like I stated Sales gives a better outlook of what EVERYONE thought about games.agentfredMore accurately, what everyone thought about the games before ever playing them.
To a certian extent yeah. I guess your saying that games that sell well are just NOT good games?
But how do sales directly effect the quality of a game for YOU. That's right they don't. SMG sold more copeis than STALKER, does that make it a better game... no. In fact, it is a much much worse game. Sales may effect future titles but as for the actual game itself, not one bit.They're the only thing that matter
Like Metal Gear 4? well thanks the sales of 1-3
Like GTA4? Thank previous sales
Happy about Mario? Thank his line of selling titlesSales are the only thing in the industry that matter
Anyone who says otherwise is doing a great job lying to themselves
Jaysonguy
More accurately, what everyone thought about the games before ever playing them.[QUOTE="agentfred"][QUOTE="IIJuggaNottII"] Like I stated Sales gives a better outlook of what EVERYONE thought about games.IIJuggaNottII
To a certian extent yeah. I guess your saying that games that sell well are just NOT good games?
They could be, or they could not be. Really what I'm saying is that sales don't indicate either way.No sales don't matter, at least as far as SW goes.
I had this to say about it a couple months ago:
[QUOTE="agentfred"]
I think you are all missing the point of the whole "you can't play sales/ sales don't matter" argument. I'll try my best to clarify.
Everyone agrees that sales are critical for a console's success, at least as far as the business side of things are concerned. No one disagrees. A console that sells like hotcakes, i.e. the Wii, is far more successful than a console that has sluggish sales i.e. the Dreamcast. No one debates this fact. Why? Because no one cares.
That's right. Real gamers don't care whether their console of choice is a success from a business point of view. That just doesn't matter. What does matter however, are the games that they get to play on their console. From a gamer's point of view, this is all that matters. Thus, a system that has a great lineup, is a better system than one without one, regardless of sales. Why is this? Don't we care about the well being of the console maker? Of course we do, but sadly, they won't be giving a cut of the profits, the only thing they'll give us, are the games. Thus, whether in victory or defeat, a console is judged solely by the games it had. It's ironic that you mentioned the Dreamcast as a "failure" because most gamers who actually owned a Dreamcast look back on it fondly, and as an excellent system.
"Now then, what about the software sales? Don't tie-in rates matter? Doesn't it matter how many copies a game sells on each system? And Agentfred, don't you know that selling boatloads of copies will lead to more games? And are you so heartless that you don't care whether a game succeeds or not?"
Software sale's follow the same principle as Hardware sale's do. By this I mean, if you are truly concerned about playing games, then the number of copies a games sells doesn't matter, only the quality of the game does. To prove my point, I'll draw upon the analogy between System Shock 2, and 50 Cent's Bulletproof. Yes I know, you've seen it a thousand times before, but that doesn't make it any less effective. System Shock 2 was a simply amazing game, no one can deny, yet it failed in terms of sales. Bulletproof however, outsold it by a great margin, but was a terrible game. No matter how many times Bulletproof outsells SS2, it'll still be the worse game.
Before I move on let me recap that part: Software sales mean nothing to gamer, when it comes to playing games. Remember, hamburgers sell more than steaks.
"But wait! Everyone knows that if a game sells lots of copies, the developers will prosper, and make more games for your system! Thus, sales are important to gamers, and you're wrong agentfred!" A powerful argument it seems, yet it is still flawed. In this case, sales are a means to an end, meaning that sales are the cause of quality games. However, untill those games materialize, it's all just theory. At the end of the day, if those sales haven't made more quality games, than the gamer loses, regardless of how many copies he bought. So, again, the only thing that matters is the amount of quality games on a system. If sales help to increase that, great, but alone, those sales mean nothing.
"Are you just a complete jerk?" Yes. "Do you care about the developers at all?" I sure do. Don't get me wrong, I hope every single good game out their succeeds, and sells millions of copies. I feel for developers when the get the short end of the stick, and I'm happy for them when the get a hit on their hands. Still, however I feel about the developers, it doesn't effect my enjoyment of a game, nor the system it is on. As such, this isn't an effective argument in System Wars.
--------------
Alright then, now that I've written a long post, allow me to summarize.
Hardware/Software sales are one factor of success, quality is another. I, as a gamer, only care about the latter.
Do sales matter? Yes sir. Do they matter to me? Not even a little.
I hope I clarified this for even one person, because I spent way to much time writting this. :P
agentfred
You make one faulty assumption in your argument. Real gamers who don't care about sales aren't real gamers.
[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]But how do sales directly effect the quality of a game for YOU. That's right they don't. SMG sold more copeis than STALKER, does that make it a better game... no. In fact, it is a much much worse game. Sales may effect future titles but as for the actual game itself, not one bit.They're the only thing that matter
Like Metal Gear 4? well thanks the sales of 1-3
Like GTA4? Thank previous sales
Happy about Mario? Thank his line of selling titlesSales are the only thing in the industry that matter
Anyone who says otherwise is doing a great job lying to themselves
_Pinbot_
For some games that might apply. What about games that rely on multiplayer...you might not have as many people to play with. LBP...you need to have good sales so that move people can create levels. LBP relies on community. One guy said that the sales reflect how people thought about the game before playing it. Well...thats true to a certian extent...but I play a great deal of demos before I purchase most games if they are available, Im sure others do too. If the game is poor...trust me word gets around. If your reading a site, or if your buying a game and the person at the counter says "yo...thats a lemon, you should get something else". I dont think many people live in caves anymore, I went to a party and this lady out of the blue who knows my wife asked me about Gears of War 2 because her husband games too. She didnt ask where to buy it, she was asking if it was good. You dont sell millions of games to the wrong target...the people who buy the Wii fits, and Wii sports probably love it. Sure it might have flew over the head of guys like me and any other hardcore gamer but eh, they think its great.
I think the idea is that sales don't make a game good. I don't believe that a game that sales a lot is automatically good. This goes for the shovelware crap that somehow sells a lot like 50 Cent to Halo 3 (I never cared for it). Obviously if games never sold we would never see sequels or continuations and gaming would have already died out.They're the only thing that matter
Like Metal Gear 4? well thanks the sales of 1-3
Like GTA4? Thank previous sales
Happy about Mario? Thank his line of selling titlesSales are the only thing in the industry that matter
Anyone who says otherwise is doing a great job lying to themselves
Jaysonguy
Sales will always matter no matter how much you argue against it. Just like Quality will always matter just like quantity will always matter. Everything matters. Why are people trying to say it doesn't?BumFluff122I agree with this sums up my thoughts on the situation.
it depends on the context of the conversation. when debateing which is a more "successful" franchise/system sales could matter. when debateing the "QUALITY" of a franchise or System sales should not matter. just because average flavor of the month FPS sold 11 million copys in a week dosent necessarily mean its a higher quality game.redbaron3
I agree with this. Fanboys are always mixing both.
To gamers who like to play good games? No.foxhound_foxRidiculous. If your console doesn't sell, you don't get games. If your favorite game doesn't sell, it won't get a follow-up. Sales attract publishers, and publishers bring games. We're seeing now with SEGA's influx of great Wii titles the effects of the system's sales. About a year and a half ago, SEGA announced that the Wii would be their primary platform. Now we're seeing SEGA develop and/or publish games like Madworld (Platinum), The Conduit (High Voltage), Sonic and the Black Knight (Sonic Team), The House of the Dead Overkill (Headstrong), Let's Tap (Prope; SEGA Subsidiary), and Bleach Versus Crusade (Treasure).
Ridiculous. If your console doesn't sell, you don't get games. If your favorite game doesn't sell, it won't get a follow-up. Sales attract publishers, and publishers bring games. We're seeing now with SEGA's influx of great Wii titles the effects of the system's sales. About a year and a half ago, SEGA announced that the Wii would be their primary platform. Now we're seeing SEGA develop and/or publish games like Madworld (Platinum), The Conduit (High Voltage), Sonic and the Black Knight (Sonic Team), The House of the Dead Overkill (Headstrong), Let's Tap (Prope; SEGA Subsidiary), and Bleach Versus Crusade (Treasure).colecoavenger
Sakes matter.
Hardware sales REALLY matter becuase people can learn from Sales. Sony for instance has a good system with the PS3, but its too expensive for the market to really bear right now, so the sales are not as hot asthe Ps2, they will have to cut the price and the Ps4 with not be a crazy high price now. Good for us as gamers.
You will notice a Transition forming where 3rd parties are going over to the Wii now. (Example Tenchu 4, House of the Dead, Deadly creatures, Madworld, The Conduit, And MOST importantly Dragon Quest series with 9 on the Ds and 10 on The Wii.
Dragon quest ONLY MOVED OVER cuase of Sales.
Mark my words now by this time next year you will see most of the RPGs come on the Wii becuase of Dragon quest. Its all about sales.
So yes sales matter like it or not.
[QUOTE="colecoavenger"]Ridiculous. If your console doesn't sell, you don't get games. If your favorite game doesn't sell, it won't get a follow-up. Sales attract publishers, and publishers bring games. We're seeing now with SEGA's influx of great Wii titles the effects of the system's sales. About a year and a half ago, SEGA announced that the Wii would be their primary platform. Now we're seeing SEGA develop and/or publish games like Madworld (Platinum), The Conduit (High Voltage), Sonic and the Black Knight (Sonic Team), The House of the Dead Overkill (Headstrong), Let's Tap (Prope; SEGA Subsidiary), and Bleach Versus Crusade (Treasure).foxhound_fox
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