Tech Analysis: Watch Dogs on PlayStation 4

[QUOTE="ManatuBeard"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]It's a tech demo that no PS4 game can match in real time rendering an open environment and lots of characters unless they want the PS4 to explode, if anything they would be the last thing to use to judge graphics on hardware.

Wickerman777

If a demo created in the refered conditions look like that, im sure when games use the full 7gb mem, PS4 tools, fully optimized code and GPGPU, games can look like that too,

All the logic/physics in that demo was using CPU only, since PS3 tools dont have GPGPU features.

Has 7 gigs available to the games even been confirmed yet? I don't think it has been. Is speculation right now.

Confirmed by Geometrics, creators of Enlighten.

"Specifically, we compared the Xbox Ones 8 GB DDR3 RAM and the PlayStation 4s 8 GB DDR5 RAM, with 5 GB and 7 GB allocated to games respectively, and asked Doran which is a better solution for crafting realistic lighting."

Source

I recall it being confirmed by 2 other devs, but cant find the links (the main topic wasnt about memory, so its not really google-able)

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="ManatuBeard"]

If a demo created in the refered conditions look like that, im sure when games use the full 7gb mem, PS4 tools, fully optimized code and GPGPU, games can look like that too,

All the logic/physics in that demo was using CPU only, since PS3 tools dont have GPGPU features.

ManatuBeard

Has 7 gigs available to the games even been confirmed yet? I don't think it has been. Is speculation right now.

Confirmed by Geometrics, creators of Enlighten.

"Specifically, we compared the Xbox Ones 8 GB DDR3 RAM and the PlayStation 4s 8 GB DDR5 RAM, with 5 GB and 7 GB allocated to games respectively, and asked Doran which is a better solution for crafting realistic lighting."

Source

Hmm, didn't check out your source but your quote sounds like speculation rather than confirmed figures to me.

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

So the majority of people that play any Steam games have 8 gigs of vram? Lol, I doubt that. And when it comes to processing it ain't an apples to apples thing cuz code for consoles is much more efficient than it is for PC.

Wickerman777

You are seriously mistaken. The PS4 has 8 Gigs of GDDR5 Ram which is SHARED memory across the whole hardware, including graphics. GDDR5 is great for graphics, because of the speed of the RAM but for normal CPU work, it's not so great because the latency is much higher than DDR3. There are always trade offs.

But it can be used for graphics memory. The point is that right now most PCs don't have that kind of video memory available to them.

But neither does the PS4 because it's shared, not dedicated. You might get a max of 7 Gigs of GDDR5 for games on PS4. You can buy GFX cards on PC that are 6 Gigs of GDDR5.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

Again though, consoles get a lot more out of their GPUs than PCs do because the code is much tighter. PCs tend to brute force their way through things.

Wickerman777

Yeah, that's the reason! Lmmao. I guess it has nothing to do with those only being 250 gflop machines with 512 megs of RAM. Try getting a PC with the same specs to do what they do and it'd melt.

[QUOTE="ManatuBeard"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

Has 7 gigs available to the games even been confirmed yet? I don't think it has been. Is speculation right now.

Wickerman777

Confirmed by Geometrics, creators of Enlighten.

"Specifically, we compared the Xbox Ones 8 GB DDR3 RAM and the PlayStation 4s 8 GB DDR5 RAM, with 5 GB and 7 GB allocated to games respectively, and asked Doran which is a better solution for crafting realistic lighting."

Source

Hmm, didn't check out your source but your quote sounds like speculation rather than confirmed figures to me.

Considering the console was initially going to have 4gb ram, and 3.5gb free for games, doubling the OS reserve makes sense for future proofing any possible changes.

So its either 7gb or 7.5gb. Its only 1 OS... not 3 like the X1.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]We probably will be seeing graphics like those, except with a much better art direction (because that demo has some pretty hideous designs) this next gen, if the evolution from 2005-2013 is any indication.parkurtommo

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

You are seriously mistaken. The PS4 has 8 Gigs of GDDR5 Ram which is SHARED memory across the whole hardware, including graphics. GDDR5 is great for graphics, because of the speed of the RAM but for normal CPU work, it's not so great because the latency is much higher than DDR3. There are always trade offs.

dream431ca

But it can be used for graphics memory. The point is that right now most PCs don't have that kind of video memory available to them.

But neither does the PS4 because it's shared, not dedicated. You might get a max of 7 Gigs of GDDR5 for games on PS4. You can buy GFX cards on PC that are 6 Gigs of GDDR5.

That's why I said most PCs don't have that much. I didn't say none do. This all goes back to an assertion someone made that most PC gamers have systems right now that blow away the performance of PS4. That just ain't true. A few do but they are in the minority.

[QUOTE="ImBatman-"]

PC>PS4>Xbone in terms of multiplats this gen.

muffin200

In other breaking news water is wet.

If Sony miraculously start having superior multiplats i would call that shocking news indeed.  And PC? Try playing this on "a PC" and it will look like shit, specify.

[QUOTE="muffin200"]

[QUOTE="ImBatman-"]

PC>PS4>Xbone in terms of multiplats this gen.

sebbi11

In other breaking news water is wet.

If Sony miraculously start having superior multiplats i would call that shocking news indeed.  And PC? Try playing this on "a PC" and it will look like shit, specify.

I'm pretty sure he meant mid/high end PC.   As in 660ti or better if you talking Nvidia or 7950 or better if you talking AMD.

optimization can only do so much kids. It can't squeeze water from a rock. The 7850+ in the PS4 will run out of juice long before it runs out of RAM. But it will get pushed to its limits which should result in some interesting stuff.NFJSupreme

Yeah, the possibilities aren't infinite, of course. But I believe based on what I've seen X360 and PS3 achieve with their meager specs that eventually PS4 will achieve results with its 1.8 tflops GPU what a GPU twice that powerful in a PC could do. Of course no amount of optimisation is gonna catch up to PC GPUs 3-5X as powerful as PS4's... but twice as powerful? Yes, I believe so. In other words a 1.8 tflops GPU in a console is roughly akin to a 3.6 tflops GPU in a PC (Not right away. But it'll perform like that in a few years) because the efficiency of consoles is so much better.

PC looks better but what kind of PC? A PC where the graphics card alone costs double the price of a PS4? Not really worth it. 

Pray_to_me

But cost isn't the only consideration. Think of it this way: the Wii U is cheaper than the PS4, yet you still choose the PS4. Well, in the same way, many of us choose to play on PC even if the initial outlay of money is a little more. It has more value to us. Especially considering that the PC more than makes up for it with free online, cheaper games, and far more capabilities and uses in our lives.

Looks pretty much identical between PC and PS4 with the latter missing some bokeh dof for the rain drops, but that's still not final code so they may very well fixed that by release. It's pointless to do comparison at this stage since we still need to see if the PC version also changed in the final code. But graphically I'd be content if PS4 version looks exactly as it is in the demo. My feeling tells me xbox1 version might run at sub 1080p and missing effects.gpuking

You're so funny. You'll call any difference between the PC and PS4 versions of a game 'minimal' no matter how significant they are, but I bet you'll blow any differences between the PS4 and Xbox One way out of proportion.

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

But it can be used for graphics memory. The point is that right now most PCs don't have that kind of video memory available to them.

Wickerman777

But neither does the PS4 because it's shared, not dedicated. You might get a max of 7 Gigs of GDDR5 for games on PS4. You can buy GFX cards on PC that are 6 Gigs of GDDR5.

That's why I said most PCs don't have that much. I didn't say none do. This all goes back to an assertion someone made that most PC gamers have systems right now that blow away the performance of PS4. That just ain't true. A few do but they are in the minority.

Well, PS4 is not release yet and AMD plans to release Radeon HD 9000s series starting sometime in October 2013.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/amd_radeon_hd_9970_engineering_samples_ship_to_manufacturers.html

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]optimization can only do so much kids. It can't squeeze water from a rock. The 7850+ in the PS4 will run out of juice long before it runs out of RAM. But it will get pushed to its limits which should result in some interesting stuff.Wickerman777

Yeah, the possibilities aren't infinite, of course. But I believe based on what I've seen X360 and PS3 achieve with their meager specs that eventually PS4 will achieve results with its 1.8 tflops GPU what a GPU twice that powerful in a PC could do. Of course no amount of optimisation is gonna catch up to PC GPUs 3-5X as powerful as PS4's... but twice as powerful? Yes, I believe so. In other words a 1.8 tflops GPU in a console is roughly akin to a 3.6 tflops GPU in a PC (Not right away. But it'll perform like that in a few years) because the efficiency of consoles is so much better.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

PS4 still looks good but there is a smoothness and depth to the PC version. The lighting and shadows play a big part in that

uninspiredcup

Agreed. The gap is huge. At this point. we might as well already declair the pc a generation ahead.

But PC-gamers playing 1-2generations behind because according to steam people have old hardware...

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

So the majority of people that play any Steam games have 8 gigs of vram? Lol, I doubt that. And when it comes to processing it ain't an apples to apples thing cuz code for consoles is much more efficient than it is for PC.

Wickerman777

You are seriously mistaken. The PS4 has 8 Gigs of GDDR5 Ram which is SHARED memory across the whole hardware, including graphics. GDDR5 is great for graphics, because of the speed of the RAM but for normal CPU work, it's not so great because the latency is much higher than DDR3. There are always trade offs.

But it can be used for graphics memory. The point is that right now most PCs don't have that kind of video memory available to them.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

Most PC gamers have PC's that are 2 gens ahead of PS4 and XB1.

dream431ca

And the type of PC gamer you're describing = hardly anyone.

Steam says otherwise. A lot of PC gamers might not have super powerful PCs but I can guarantee that almost all people who game on PC will be able to best the PS4 and XB1 without any trouble at all.

You are wrong.

The thing is, often the early PC builds are running on ridiculous specs with tech that is only stable on a very small set of equipment. Most of the really advanced stuff doesn't make it through the optimization stages of development on the PC and is scrapped. 

This happened with Battlefield 3. The original demos showed better lighting, textures, and more effects. They removed some probably during optimization.

Early gameplay videos are rarely what you want to go off of. Devs are trying to make it look as good as possible. When it hits the mass market and thousands of potential configurations of hardware on the PC, they often do a "best fit" scenario and lower the amount of effects or even change the algorithms to run better thus decreasing overall quality. This is common because it's MUCH more important to have stable graphic settings on machines with compareable power (AMD vs Intel, AMD vs. Nvidia).

So bascially if you have 2 computers with different parts but similar power, they should run the same. One shouldn't run way better than the other becuase you used some graphic rendering technique that works better on one or the other.

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

And the type of PC gamer you're describing = hardly anyone.

StrongBlackVine

Steam says otherwise. A lot of PC gamers might not have super powerful PCs but I can guarantee that almost all people who game on PC will be able to best the PS4 and XB1 without any trouble at all.

You are wrong.

Steam stats would count my laptop with an Intel HD 4000 i.e. the primary display would be Intel HD 4000 with additional GPU power being boosted by AMD Radeon HD 8870M. For display, AMD Radeon HD 8870M's rendering results (e.g. assigned game) are piped into Intel HD 4000.

Intel HD 4000 continues to handle lighter GPU workloads while AMD Radeon HD 8870M handles heavier GPU workloads.

NVIDIA Optimus works in a similar manner.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

PS4 still looks good but there is a smoothness and depth to the PC version. The lighting and shadows play a big part in that

uninspiredcup

Agreed. The gap is huge. At this point. we might as well already declair the pc a generation ahead.

Does this game have online component, or single player only?Mr-Kutaragi

Looks promissing for a launch title

How come we ain't seen x1 version

#ms sort yourself out

Cuby_Finest

Why no PC comparison????

Why you not thinking about that???

Ass RAPED

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

So the majority of people that play any Steam games have 8 gigs of vram? Lol, I doubt that. And when it comes to processing it ain't an apples to apples thing cuz code for consoles is much more efficient than it is for PC.

Wickerman777

You are seriously mistaken. The PS4 has 8 Gigs of GDDR5 Ram which is SHARED memory across the whole hardware, including graphics. GDDR5 is great for graphics, because of the speed of the RAM but for normal CPU work, it's not so great because the latency is much higher than DDR3. There are always trade offs.

But it can be used for graphics memory. The point is that right now most PCs don't have that kind of video memory available to them.

PC's do not need that amount of Vram, a console does because it lacks the horsepower, so storing more stuff in ram will give the console time to process it, this is also why you only get 720p with sub 30fps most of the time.

3GB 780 will rip a PS4 a new backside then spit it out on your doorstep, memory has no real part in performance until you get to a crazy resolution pushing serious amunts of AA, like 8xMSAA at 2560x1600+ res.

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]

[QUOTE="Pray_to_me"]

PC looks better but what kind of PC? A PC where the graphics card alone costs double the price of a PS4? Not really worth it. 

Pray_to_me

It was running on a 680 which you can get for around $400.  Or you could get a 7970 which costs less and has similar performance.  Or if you are a smart you can get a 670 and over clock it for 350 or so.  And if you are pro you could just get a 7950 for sub 300 and overclock the hell out of it.  Or you could get the new 760 or 770.  None of these cards are over $400.  Some as low as $250 or less depending on what sale is going on.

Aaaaand then you can go ahead and buy a new card when next gen really hits its stride and we're not playing PS360 ports such as watch dogs. Gonna need to upgrade your CPU which means new mobo, new OS or if you have a licence you still need to reinstall all your shit should take you a day not including reasearching parts, waiting for them to ship, building the shit. And then still you'll still be stuck playing X-Box one ports and maybe one or two Kickstarter funded exclusives that may or may not ever release.  

Ooooor just get a PS4, all these mutiplats and real actual exclusives not crowd funded pipe dreams. 400 bucks and set for 5-10 years. Boom, Done, Easy. 

And still be stuck playing inferior multiplats, paying to play online, and paying more for your games. Doesn't sound as amazing as you are trying to make it sound.

Both versions look great. I want this game.

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

Shouldn't phrase it like that. Most PCs are not more powerful than PS4 or Xbox One. Should say: Tiny percentage of PCs>PS4>Xbox One.

Wickerman777

Most PC gamers have PC's that are 2 gens ahead of PS4 and XB1.

And the type of PC gamer you're describing = hardly anyone.

My rig has a 3 year old GPU, it still towers above the PS4 GPU, my 2500k rapes the CPU in both consoles, no 8 core 1.6ghz APU will come close to 4 sandy bridge cores at 5ghz.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

Most PC gamers have PC's that are 2 gens ahead of PS4 and XB1.

AMD655

And the type of PC gamer you're describing = hardly anyone.

My rig has a 3 year old GPU, it still towers above the PS4 GPU, my 2500k rapes the CPU in both consoles, no 8 core 1.6ghz APU will come close to 4 sandy bridge cores at 5ghz.

You are in that "hardly any one" category.

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

And the type of PC gamer you're describing = hardly anyone.

StrongBlackVine

My rig has a 3 year old GPU, it still towers above the PS4 GPU, my 2500k rapes the CPU in both consoles, no 8 core 1.6ghz APU will come close to 4 sandy bridge cores at 5ghz.

You are in that "hardly any one" category.

Well if i am, almost everyone must be jobless and feeding of their mother still.......

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]optimization can only do so much kids. It can't squeeze water from a rock. The 7850+ in the PS4 will run out of juice long before it runs out of RAM. But it will get pushed to its limits which should result in some interesting stuff.Wickerman777

Yeah, the possibilities aren't infinite, of course. But I believe based on what I've seen X360 and PS3 achieve with their meager specs that eventually PS4 will achieve results with its 1.8 tflops GPU what a GPU twice that powerful in a PC could do. Of course no amount of optimisation is gonna catch up to PC GPUs 3-5X as powerful as PS4's... but twice as powerful? Yes, I believe so. In other words a 1.8 tflops GPU in a console is roughly akin to a 3.6 tflops GPU in a PC (Not right away. But it'll perform like that in a few years) because the efficiency of consoles is so much better.

Yes, but by that time a 3.6 tflop PC graphics card will also be able to run much better looking games, simply due to the better techniques that developers learn. Look at some of the amazing looking games, like Dead Space 3, that an 8800 gtx can run.

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

My rig has a 3 year old GPU, it still towers above the PS4 GPU, my 2500k rapes the CPU in both consoles, no 8 core 1.6ghz APU will come close to 4 sandy bridge cores at 5ghz.

AMD655

You are in that "hardly any one" category.

Well if i am, almost everyone must be jobless and feeding of their mother still.......

Price is not the only reason people don't own high end gaming PCs though initial investment is a barrier.

These differences is only noticeable when you sit close to the monitor trying to find them. If you run both versions on a typical TV at 1080p, while sitting at a normal distance away, you won't see the differences at all. The important stuff about the game was the same. NPC count, lighting and reflections, stable framerate, resolution, and physics.

I hope you are talking about console comparisons.

Why the fvck can't PS4 beat a 2012 PC game?ShoulderOfOrion

1.6ghz CPU + 7850, hardly ground breaking in PC terms, great for console gamers though.

[QUOTE="Cuby_Finest"]

Looks promissing for a launch title

How come we ain't seen x1 version

#ms sort yourself out

AMD655

Why no PC comparison????

Why you not thinking about that???

Ass RAPED

.

DF will have a fun time doing face off of this... 6 platforms lol

They might split in 2, ps3/360/wiiu and ps4/x1/pc

.

AMD655

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

.

Cuby_Finest

.

AMD655

[QUOTE="Cuby_Finest"]

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

.

AMD655

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

PS4 still looks good but there is a smoothness and depth to the PC version. The lighting and shadows play a big part in that

uninspiredcup

Agreed. The gap is huge. At this point. we might as well already declair the pc a generation ahead.