The 360 is crippling new multiplatform releases

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Newsflash: Every time a game goes multiplat, it winds up not taking best advantage of the systems it's being made for.

It's a fact that 360 games have been kept from being the best they possibly could be because of multiplat development, as they don't get designed to take best advantage of the triple-core solution.

It's a fact that PS3 games have been kept from being the best they could possibley be because of the same reason.

It's a reality for developers who decide to split time and develop the same game on more than one system. Everyone can make a claim to a game having less of something by being on another system.

Kook18

It's frustrating, really.

It must hurt people to know end to know that there are things that the 360 can do that the PS3 can't (purely from a DirectX vs. OpenGL). There are things the PS3 can do that the 360 can't do as well.

But that hurt should not blind people from that reality. Of course, I know better.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="JaptainCack"]

You are basing this on a rumor. The article itself states:

Sony Japan has confirmed that a massive 1000 cars will appear for the highly anticipated PlayStation 3 racer Gran Turismo 5, according to CVG, making it the most vehicle-fueled game of its genre ever released.

It is also rumoured that 340 cars will be included on the game disc itself

So Sony confirmed 1000 cars infact. However didn't state on whether it would be on the disc. But it clearly DOES infact say it's just simply rumoured that only some of that will be on the disc itself. A link with rumors is just as useless as speculation in a forum.

JaptainCack

big whoop, it still points to you being wrong. and who cares, it's argument based on speculation and rumors, drop it. it was your only hope at some substantial evidence - and it's gone :P

It was not my only hope, it was just an example of how Blu-Ray will become utilized in the future. And DVD based XBOX 360 could hold it back in the future if it's still in the market and having games released for it that are for the PS3 as well. If GT5 infact does ship with 700 cars that is the kind of content that cannot fit on a DVD disc. That was my prime example. And whether or not it IS really going to ship with this much is speculation on my part.

That was the whole point of what I was trying to say. Ok say even, if GT5 releases with 1000 cars like that article said it MIGHT. Then thats the kind of content that cannot fit on a DVD, there it could never be out for the 360. Now imagine if say Rockstar wanted to have 3 cities in it's game! Or 300 different car models or people models. This could have been what rockstar wanted to do yet it's not going to have 3 cities or any of that for the sake to fit on a DVD for the 360. Now I am speculating but I'm just giving a hypothetical example of how multiplatform releases will affect the PS3 in the future because of developers having to cut content to fit on the 360 and be able to release the "SAME" game on both platforms. That's what I mean by dragging games down.

SUD makes a good point. However, if you spend alot on your game, give it a lot of content and great graphics (that of such sizes that Blu-Ray would handle) you will sell ALOT of copies of your game. GT4 has sold millions upon millions upon millions of copies and was said to help drive the PS2 sales into the 120 million region that it is at today. So the more content in your game, the more it will keep people in it, talking about it, spreading word of mouth about it and thus having more people buy it. Look at World of Warcraft from 2004. It has 10 million registered and ACTIVE users now. Simply because of all the cost of production that went into it and how much content it has that people still buy it and new players come all the time still to this day, almost 4 years later! But games like, I dont know, Gears of War are dying down now. It's been played, it's been done, it was great, game over. The amount of money you spend on a title, and how much content you put it will directly affect how much money you make in the long run from this product.JaptainCack

GTA4 was delayed because of problems with the PS3, and DMC4 has mandatory installs for the PS3 because of blue ray, the majority of multiplats are better on the 360, If anything its the PS3 that is hurting multiplats. Shift05

GTA 4 was delayed because of the ps3

/thread

TheDarkDisciple

[QUOTE="Steppy_76"]That would have been the case about 5 years ago or so, but the things you speak of are now handled by programmable texture shaders. A shader can make unique textures on the fly from a base texture, and leads to more variety than putting in a bunch on canned textures. Why make 5 different textures to add rust and stuff like that and only have 5 variations of rust patterns when you can make a shader program to dynamically rust a surface and have infinite rust textures. As GPU's get more powerful there is less of a need to use premade variations of textures since those can be made on the fly easier and easier.HuusAsking

Can anyone even name a game that is over 4 gigs compressed (the word compressed is key) without it just being a bunch of movie files(cutscenes)??? The argument is kind of silly... You could make a disc to hold a terrabite in the end it would make as much sense as sticking a 500gb harddrive in a commodore 64.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="Steppy_76"]That would have been the case about 5 years ago or so, but the things you speak of are now handled by programmable texture shaders. A shader can make unique textures on the fly from a base texture, and leads to more variety than putting in a bunch on canned textures. Why make 5 different textures to add rust and stuff like that and only have 5 variations of rust patterns when you can make a shader program to dynamically rust a surface and have infinite rust textures. As GPU's get more powerful there is less of a need to use premade variations of textures since those can be made on the fly easier and easier.Titus_WoWplayer

[QUOTE="Steppy_76"]That would have been the case about 5 years ago or so, but the things you speak of are now handled by programmable texture shaders. A shader can make unique textures on the fly from a base texture, and leads to more variety than putting in a bunch on canned textures. Why make 5 different textures to add rust and stuff like that and only have 5 variations of rust patterns when you can make a shader program to dynamically rust a surface and have infinite rust textures. As GPU's get more powerful there is less of a need to use premade variations of textures since those can be made on the fly easier and easier.HuusAsking

Well models to be fair are really small, it's usually textures, sound and movie files that will kill the most space on a disc.

Can anyone even name a game that is over 4 gigs compressed (the word compressed is key) without it just being a bunch of movie files(cutscenes)??? The argument is kind of silly... You could make a disc to hold a terrabite in the end it would make as much sense as sticking a 500gb harddrive in a commodore 64.

Ilikemyname420

[QUOTE="Titus_WoWplayer"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="Steppy_76"]That would have been the case about 5 years ago or so, but the things you speak of are now handled by programmable texture shaders. A shader can make unique textures on the fly from a base texture, and leads to more variety than putting in a bunch on canned textures. Why make 5 different textures to add rust and stuff like that and only have 5 variations of rust patterns when you can make a shader program to dynamically rust a surface and have infinite rust textures. As GPU's get more powerful there is less of a need to use premade variations of textures since those can be made on the fly easier and easier.HuusAsking

Some good discussion on this. Most (half) are probably not unique.

In any case, I think there are a few of us that sort of agree that innovation will occur on the procedural side. Exactly where the balance is going to be between artistry and programming is unclear, as is exactly how this will be achieved. Nevertheless, I think it is a certainty that much greater exploration of procedural options MUST take place because the current method of essentially handcrafting greater and greater requirements for 'realism' is not cost sustainable.

Meaning that space itself is not the primary problem in this area.

[QUOTE="Ilikemyname420"]

Can anyone even name a game that is over 4 gigs compressed (the word compressed is key) without it just being a bunch of movie files(cutscenes)??? The argument is kind of silly... You could make a disc to hold a terrabite in the end it would make as much sense as sticking a 500gb harddrive in a commodore 64.

HuusAsking

Crysis is under 6 gigs compressed(read the wrong disc drive on previous edit), Oblivion is like 4 and change (getting rid of DX install etc) . both were one disc (unless you got the collectors and they have like a making of and soundtrack disc)

I am pissed off that Playstation exclusives such as Grant Theft Auto, Devil May Cry and Resident Evil are being released on the 360.

JaptainCack

People really need to know what a PC is.

I am pissed off that Playstation exclusives such as Grant Theft Auto, Devil May Cry and Resident Evil are being released on the 360. It absolutely cripple's the PS3's ability to use the BluRay disc's space to it's full potential. The 360 is still limited to it's DVD discs, and money hungry companies like Rockstar and Capcom want to sell as many copies of their product as they can so they limit their games graphically and length-wise to fit on a DVD disc so it can be released on the 360 as well as the PS3.

Games like Grand Theft Auto IV will seriously suffer from this as they will not be as graphically impressive and as long as next-gen games trully should be. You will see the typical GTA stuff, traffic dissapearing, not enough pedestrians/cars on the streets to make a true busy looking city, recycled car models and textures and voices. All of these issues are DVD related. (except the number of cars/peds thats just the hardware's ability to render, I know that. But the PS3 does house faster hardware so it will impact the graphics too) The fact that more content cannot be fit onto the DVD disc. The PS3 has such huge potential for really amazing games to be released in the future, timeless classics like Resident Evil, but since they are planned for the 360 as well this cripples the potential of really amazing next-gen games to be released any time soon for the PS3.

I am not saying the 360 is a bad machine. I think it's good. But with that said I am put off that so many Playstation exlcusives are being dumbed down as future "next-gen" games because of a multiplatform releases and the DVD limitations on the 360 causing this to happen. And everyone is fighting about this right now too: Which console is faster, which version of the game has better graphics and so and so forth. Who cares? What's important is the games and how neighboring consoles affect the other console's ability to reach it's full potentional. I think that eventually if the 360 will stay in the market, that they should split the game library up at that point. Just like the Wii having it's own library of games apart from all the other consoles. The 360 has hit it's peak of potential, and theres nothing wrong with that. The PS2 is still releases great games and it's hit it's peak years ago and it's a great console. But games are and will suffer. Devil May Cry 4 has taken a hit because of this, it's extremely short in my opinion. And even though I think it's a great game I think it could have been so much more.

I am glad that games like Gran Turismo 5 are staying exclusive to the PS3, obviously because it's going to be published by Sony. But this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Gran Turismo 5 will feature true 1080p resolutions, amazingly sharp graphics (at that resolution no less) and 700 fully fleshed extremely detailed cars! There is no way that you can fit that kind of content on a DVD. And I'm glad that this title will work out as a trully next-gen game.

This is all just my opinion, not saying this is how everyone feels or should feel :)

JaptainCack

I screamed the same thing last gen about the xbox ports being screwed by playstation ports. Listen up cow, The playstation 3 and blue ray are BARELY better please jsut dont speak it makes me sick.

I feel where he's coming from. A game like Gt5 can undoubtedly have more high production value than DMC4 b/c Capcom was to busy spliting labor between 2 consoles. so DMC4 suffered in high production value. While GT5 or MGS4 wont suffer from that since all the man-labor is being put into one console.

I agree with him.

Solid-CELL

the same thing can be said about 360 developed games for 360. Gears of Wars is awsome because it was developed for one system, same thing with Bioshock, same with mass Effect. This is why ports of once exclusive games are crap

[QUOTE="Solid-CELL"]

I feel where he's coming from. A game like Gt5 can undoubtedly have more high production value than DMC4 b/c Capcom was to busy spliting labor between 2 consoles. so DMC4 suffered in high production value. While GT5 or MGS4 wont suffer from that since all the man-labor is being put into one console.

I agree with him.

mtron32

the same thing can be said about 360 developed games for 360. Gears of Wars is awsome because it was developed for one system, same thing with Bioshock, same with mass Effect. This is why ports of once exclusive games are crap

[QUOTE="shoeman12"]blame sony, those games are multiplat because the 360 is the better machine with the bigger install base.JaptainCack

The 360 is not a better machine. Such fanboy talk. The 360 doesn't have bluetooth, the 360 can't support 7 controllers, the 360 doesn't boast Blu-Ray, the 360 has only 3 cores as opposed to PS3's 7 cores. There so much hardware talk you can throw into the game right now. But the fact is, both consoles are on par for the sake of 360 at the moment. All multiplatform games are released so they can both run well on either console at the moment. Soon a split of games will occur and the difference will be apparent. If you look at earlier 360 games, like Fight Night, the graphics were the same back then as they are now 3 years later. The 360 has no more room for improvement and I believe that it's holds back PS3's potential because of all these multiplatform releases being kept at 360's bar.

no the difference won't be appearant because its the differences that will cost more mony. Why should a developer spend the extra time just to make a few extra effects ona different system when they can optomize for both and ship them out? The graphics on either system are not going to get any better as of today, what will improve are the technical treats like physics and AI. Right now developers pretty much know what they can and can't do as far as art goes, so you can stop wishing upon a star for that.

If a game like GTA4 really needed to have a lot of space, they would use an extra dvd disc, it's no big deal. 360 users would have 2-4 discs, PS3 users would have 1 BD and for some reason would laugh at 360 users. As if switching discs is all that difficult, I switch 5 discs per gaming session.

Another thing, what the heck are you trying to say about FN3? It looked the same on PS3 as it did in 360, they were released a year apart and you nerds were sitting here comparing snapshots instead of playing the game. As it stands, that game had a LOT of things going on like animated normal maps, sweat maps, dynamics all over the ropes, cloth simulators on the shorts and a pretty in depth create a player system (that looked like a nightmare to build). One of the tasks of developing games is to make a game inside the limitations of the hardware, it's been done this way for years. Right now, the differences between the systems are miniscule as far as games go, I don't see where one system drastically has an advantage. Only in rare cases such as: MGS4, GeOW, or Uncharted where these games were developed solely ot run on those systems.

[QUOTE="mtron32"][QUOTE="Solid-CELL"]

I feel where he's coming from. A game like Gt5 can undoubtedly have more high production value than DMC4 b/c Capcom was to busy spliting labor between 2 consoles. so DMC4 suffered in high production value. While GT5 or MGS4 wont suffer from that since all the man-labor is being put into one console.

I agree with him.

HuusAsking

the same thing can be said about 360 developed games for 360. Gears of Wars is awsome because it was developed for one system, same thing with Bioshock, same with mass Effect. This is why ports of once exclusive games are crap

Its easier to port PC to 360 or 360 to PC because they are similar architectures hence why the games run well on both platforms. The same can't be said for PC to ps3 or 360 to ps3.