The 360 is the king of Shooters,Not the PS3 or PC.

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NinjaOmega

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#1 NinjaOmega
Member since 2009 • 319 Posts

With games like Halo 3,ODST,Gears of war 1 and 2,Left 4 dead 2,The up-coming Crysis 2,Cod modern warfare 2(timed exclusive maps),Crackdown,The orange box(The better verison),Frontlines,Halo reach,Bioshock(Again the better verison of the game)..It's really hard to argue that no doubt he 360 is the king of shooters there's a reason on why the Xbox image always get the Shooter stigma...And why not shooters are the...

It thing right now, Yes the 360 has other genres sucessful on the platform but the shooters are the best...Now that the 360 has crysis..PC gamers can't use the crysis series as Ammo now since it's multiplat..Sames goes with left 4 dead or half life...

As the for the PS3 rivarly i'ts a no brainer with the broken gameplay like killzone 2,MAG,uncharted 2 and reistance..It's no competion..With Halo you won't need another shooter in ur life

By the time you know it the 360 will eb taking over the RTS genre in a matter of time:D

Discuss.

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Brainkiller05

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#2 Brainkiller05
Member since 2005 • 28954 Posts
You couldn't be more wrong, enjoy your broken versions of PC shooters.
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mitu123

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#3 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

It would be better if you took out 360/PS3/PC games...

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Yandere

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#4 Yandere
Member since 2009 • 9878 Posts

The PC is king of FPSs, just like it's the kig of RTS.

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Legendaryscmt

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#5 Legendaryscmt
Member since 2005 • 12532 Posts

I love your arguement.

" Well, some of these games are on PC, so they're multiplatform, but the 360 obviously has the better versions of those games."

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NinjaOmega

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#6 NinjaOmega
Member since 2009 • 319 Posts

You couldn't be more wrong, enjoy your broken versions of PC shooters. Brainkiller05

Halo series>Half life series..When you combine the all the sales and high scores...

*looks at your sig oh a soulja boy fan* carry on...:|

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FragTycoon

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#7 FragTycoon
Member since 2008 • 6430 Posts

There is no browser on a 360 so I'm assuming you have a PC.... so why are you still wrong? =/

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imaps3fanboy

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#8 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

pc shooters > kz2 > the conduit > halo 3

yeah I said it.

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xgraderx

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#9 xgraderx
Member since 2008 • 2395 Posts

I like your spunk TC and I agree,but you just made alot of insecure people very angry,good luck with their crap.

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strudel420

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#10 strudel420
Member since 2006 • 3687 Posts

--

Why do you post such lies?

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NinjaOmega

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#11 NinjaOmega
Member since 2009 • 319 Posts

The PC is king of FPSs, just like it's the kig of RTS.

Yandere

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

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STurn21

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#12 STurn21
Member since 2009 • 290 Posts

The PC is the king of all gaming.....

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imaps3fanboy

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#13 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]You couldn't be more wrong, enjoy your broken versions of PC shooters. NinjaOmega

Halo series>Half life series..When you combine the all the sales and high scores...

*looks at your sig oh a soulja boy fan* carry on...:|

Says in your sig you are playing the 360 version of batman AA. Is playing with the joker any good?...oh wait..

Don't judge people for their sigs, unless its AHUGECAT. Lol.

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Legendaryscmt

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#14 Legendaryscmt
Member since 2005 • 12532 Posts

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

The PC is king of FPSs, just like it's the kig of RTS.

NinjaOmega

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

You just lost your...wait, what am I talking about, you didn't even start with any credibility.

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SilverChimera

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#15 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

pc shooters > kz2 > the conduit > halo 3

yeah I said it.

imaps3fanboy
lol. switch halo and conduit and there's my opinion
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DarkerKamikaze

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#16 DarkerKamikaze
Member since 2007 • 1011 Posts

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]You couldn't be more wrong, enjoy your broken versions of PC shooters. NinjaOmega

Halo series>Half life series..When you combine the all the sales and high scores...

*looks at your sig oh a soulja boy fan* carry on...:|

Halo is an overrated series and the games are very medicore. IMO

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TehSonofUgly

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#17 TehSonofUgly
Member since 2008 • 1643 Posts

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]You couldn't be more wrong, enjoy your broken versions of PC shooters. imaps3fanboy

Halo series>Half life series..When you combine the all the sales and high scores...

*looks at your sig oh a soulja boy fan* carry on...:|

Says in your sig you are playing the 360 version of batman AA. Is playing with the joker any good?...oh wait..

Don't judge people for their sigs, unless its AHUGECAT. Lol.

:lol: You have a quote from TC in your sig

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STurn21

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#18 STurn21
Member since 2009 • 290 Posts

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]You couldn't be more wrong, enjoy your broken versions of PC shooters. imaps3fanboy

Halo series>Half life series..When you combine the all the sales and high scores...

*looks at your sig oh a soulja boy fan* carry on...:|

Says in your sig you are playing the 360 version of batman AA. Is playing with the joker any good?...oh wait..

Don't judge people for their sigs, unless its AHUGECAT. Lol.

OH NOES! CAN'T PLAY AS THE JOKER!?!?

Fanboys make me sick....

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imaps3fanboy

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#19 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

Halo series>Half life series..When you combine the all the sales and high scores...

*looks at your sig oh a soulja boy fan* carry on...:|

TehSonofUgly

Says in your sig you are playing the 360 version of batman AA. Is playing with the joker any good?...oh wait..

Don't judge people for their sigs, unless its AHUGECAT. Lol.

:lol: You have a quote from TC in your sig

Yep, his hilariousness goes beyond this thread, lol

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NinjaOmega

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#20 NinjaOmega
Member since 2009 • 319 Posts

pc shooters > kz2 > the conduit > halo 3

yeah I said it.

imaps3fanboy

This thread doesn't involve the Wii,That wii cannot compete with the likes of gears or halo

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imaps3fanboy

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#21 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

Halo series>Half life series..When you combine the all the sales and high scores...

*looks at your sig oh a soulja boy fan* carry on...:|

STurn21

Says in your sig you are playing the 360 version of batman AA. Is playing with the joker any good?...oh wait..

Don't judge people for their sigs, unless its AHUGECAT. Lol.

OH NOES! CAN'T PLAY AS THE JOKER!?!?

Fanboys make me sick....

Only reason I said that is to make a point to him, not everyone else.

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Filthybastrd

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#22 Filthybastrd
Member since 2009 • 7124 Posts

So it turns out that the pc is still the king of shooters.......

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NinjaOmega

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#23 NinjaOmega
Member since 2009 • 319 Posts

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]You couldn't be more wrong, enjoy your broken versions of PC shooters. imaps3fanboy

Halo series>Half life series..When you combine the all the sales and high scores...

*looks at your sig oh a soulja boy fan* carry on...:|

Says in your sig you are playing the 360 version of batman AA. Is playing with the joker any good?...oh wait..

Don't judge people for their sigs, unless its AHUGECAT. Lol.

Joker is overrated besides i got it as a gift.

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imaps3fanboy

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#24 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

Halo series>Half life series..When you combine the all the sales and high scores...

*looks at your sig oh a soulja boy fan* carry on...:|

NinjaOmega

Says in your sig you are playing the 360 version of batman AA. Is playing with the joker any good?...oh wait..

Don't judge people for their sigs, unless its AHUGECAT. Lol.

Joker is overrated besides i got it as a gift.

Halo 3 is overrated, I burned, I got it as a gift also.

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Ribnarak

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#25 Ribnarak
Member since 2008 • 2299 Posts

With games like Halo 3,ODST,Gears of war 1 and 2,Left 4 dead 2,The up-coming Crysis 2,Cod modern warfare 2(timed exclusive maps),Crackdown,The orange box(The better verison),Frontlines,Halo reach,Bioshock(Again the better verison of the game)..It's really hard to argue that no doubt he 360 is the king of shooters there's a reason on why the Xbox image always get the Shooter stigma...And why not shooters are the...

It thing right now, Yes the 360 has other genres sucessful on the platform but the shooters are the best...Now that the 360 has crysis..PC gamers can't use the crysis series as Ammo now since it's multiplat..Sames goes with left 4 dead or half life...

As the for the PS3 rivarly i'ts a no brainer with the broken gameplay like killzone 2,MAG,uncharted 2 and reistance..It's no competion..With Halo you won't need another shooter in ur life

By the time you know it the 360 will eb taking over the RTS genre in a matter of time:D

Discuss.

NinjaOmega

ok lets take some of those multiplats out and then compare.

"With games like Halo 3,ODST,Gears of war 1 Halo reach,"

Wow, an amazing line up. Btw, who are you to decide what is the better version of a game on each console, i mean they are almost the exact same with minute differences.

1) killzone 2 does not hae broken gameplay

2) name one game for 360 that is announced or is out there, that will have an experience of 256 players in one game. (Dont think you can, yet...)
3) ALot of people don't like halo3. Trust me its just a matter of opinion.

4)Shooters for PS3: resistance 1, 2, Killzone 2, Warhawk, MGS4, MAg Uncharted 1 n 2....

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imaps3fanboy

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#26 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

With games like Halo 3,ODST,Gears of war 1 and 2,Left 4 dead 2,The up-coming Crysis 2,Cod modern warfare 2(timed exclusive maps),Crackdown,The orange box(The better verison),Frontlines,Halo reach,Bioshock(Again the better verison of the game)..It's really hard to argue that no doubt he 360 is the king of shooters there's a reason on why the Xbox image always get the Shooter stigma...And why not shooters are the...

It thing right now, Yes the 360 has other genres sucessful on the platform but the shooters are the best...Now that the 360 has crysis..PC gamers can't use the crysis series as Ammo now since it's multiplat..Sames goes with left 4 dead or half life...

As the for the PS3 rivarly i'ts a no brainer with the broken gameplay like killzone 2,MAG,uncharted 2 and reistance..It's no competion..With Halo you won't need another shooter in ur life

By the time you know it the 360 will eb taking over the RTS genre in a matter of time:D

Discuss.

Ribnarak

ok lets take some of those multiplats out and then compare.

"With games like Halo 3,ODST,Gears of war 1 Halo reach,"

Wow, an amazing line up. Btw, who are you to decide what is the better version of a game on each console, i mean they are almost the exact same with minute differences.

1) killzone 2 does not hae broken gameplay

2) name one game for 360 that is announced or is out there, that will have an experience of 256 players in one game. (Dont think you can, yet...)
3) ALot of people don't like halo3. Trust me its just a matter of opinion.

4)Shooters for PS3: resistance 1, 2, Killzone 2, Warhawk, MGS4, MAg Uncharted 1 n 2....

Forgot Socom

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Filthybastrd

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#27 Filthybastrd
Member since 2009 • 7124 Posts

Oh.... It's NinjaOmega again. You forgot to claim that something was messiah in your OP. You would'nt happen to be Ahugecat's alterego would you?

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imaps3fanboy

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#28 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

Oh.... It's NinjaOmega again. You forgot to claim that something was messiah in your OP. You would'nt happen to be Ahugecat's alterego would you?

Filthybastrd

Whoah, I never thought of that, I actually havent seen him in awhile too..

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biggest_loser

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#29 biggest_loser
Member since 2007 • 24508 Posts
You don't have Crysis 1 - no one knows what the environments in Crysis 2 will be like in terms of scale. And regardless, it still won't ever look as good on the 360. And I don't know why you think you have the better version of The Orange Box. Valve games have always been superior on the PC. Thats what they're made for. Both your attempts at the RTS genre: End War and the Halo RTS were both extreme flops. The PC will always be the first choice for the RTS because of the control scheme. Have you actually played KZ2, MAG, Uncharted 2? What would you be doing with a PS3 if you have?
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#30 jasonharris48
Member since 2006 • 21441 Posts

You know what's funny TC? Thosegames that PC versions of them play better on PC and have mod support. I'm a console gamer but I wouldn't say something so far fetched.

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Hanass

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#31 Hanass
Member since 2008 • 2204 Posts

Wow, this is really sad. Claiming that Crysis 2 is the reason Xbox 360 > PC and PS3. Damn... Oh, and LMFAO at Orange Box. Your last gen graphics with no mod support clearly proves that Xbox 360 is superior to PC and PS3.

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pyromaniac223

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#32 pyromaniac223
Member since 2008 • 5896 Posts

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

Oh.... It's NinjaOmega again. You forgot to claim that something was messiah in your OP. You would'nt happen to be Ahugecat's alterego would you?

imaps3fanboy

Whoah, I never thought of that, I actually havent seen him in awhile too..

I'm pretty sure this is the "For all you who think Half Life is better than Halo" guy. The one that tried to use metacritic to prove halo was better than half life but refused to compare the versions on the same platform
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NinjaOmega

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#33 NinjaOmega
Member since 2009 • 319 Posts

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

With games like Halo 3,ODST,Gears of war 1 and 2,Left 4 dead 2,The up-coming Crysis 2,Cod modern warfare 2(timed exclusive maps),Crackdown,The orange box(The better verison),Frontlines,Halo reach,Bioshock(Again the better verison of the game)..It's really hard to argue that no doubt he 360 is the king of shooters there's a reason on why the Xbox image always get the Shooter stigma...And why not shooters are the...

It thing right now, Yes the 360 has other genres sucessful on the platform but the shooters are the best...Now that the 360 has crysis..PC gamers can't use the crysis series as Ammo now since it's multiplat..Sames goes with left 4 dead or half life...

As the for the PS3 rivarly i'ts a no brainer with the broken gameplay like killzone 2,MAG,uncharted 2 and reistance..It's no competion..With Halo you won't need another shooter in ur life

By the time you know it the 360 will eb taking over the RTS genre in a matter of time:D

Discuss.

Ribnarak

ok lets take some of those multiplats out and then compare.

"With games like Halo 3,ODST,Gears of war 1 Halo reach,"

Wow, an amazing line up. Btw, who are you to decide what is the better version of a game on each console, i mean they are almost the exact same with minute differences.

1) killzone 2 does not hae broken gameplay

2) name one game for 360 that is announced or is out there, that will have an experience of 256 players in one game. (Dont think you can, yet...)
3) ALot of people don't like halo3. Trust me its just a matter of opinion.

4)Shooters for PS3: resistance 1, 2, Killzone 2, Warhawk, MGS4, MAg Uncharted 1 n 2....

To answer your questions:

1)When you sprint in killzone 2 it feels very gimmicky that's why is aid it has broken gameplay and boring level design

2)256 players is too much for me i would rahter play 5v5,or 16v16

3)I know.

4)R1,R2,KZ2,Warhawk,U1 and 2 couldnt even manage to get AAA...That's sad imo.

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Ribnarak

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#34 Ribnarak
Member since 2008 • 2299 Posts

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

The PC is king of FPSs, just like it's the kig of RTS.

NinjaOmega

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

The PC will always be more powerful than the 360, trust me. IF you're just comparing pc to 360, PC is the handsdown winner. I mean seriously , the 360 has games that are developed on the pc :P , and everyconsole is going to be outdated compared to a pc. ANd if im correct, halo 1 and 2 are on the PC.

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XaosII

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#35 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

I think its funny you say PC gamers cant use the crysis series because its multiplat, but you use the Halo series and its multiplat with the PC. No to mention almost every single other game.

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FragTycoon

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#36 FragTycoon
Member since 2008 • 6430 Posts

It might be a little early but I'm fairly sure this warrants the,

gif

Personaly, I'm not really looking for another shooter anyway.

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Hanass

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#37 Hanass
Member since 2008 • 2204 Posts

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

The PC is king of FPSs, just like it's the kig of RTS.

NinjaOmega

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

You know what, that actually makes a lot of sense, considering that the controller will still be as crappy as ever for RTS, and that Xbox 360's hardware will never improve.

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funsohng

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#38 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
thankfully i dont like shooters
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Ratchet_Fan8

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#39 Ratchet_Fan8
Member since 2008 • 5574 Posts

[QUOTE="Ribnarak"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]R2,KZ2,U2 couldnt even manage to get AAA...That's sad imo.

NinjaOmega
Its sad that U2 wasnt even released yet,and KZ2 and R2 did get an AAA. Are you real? either your 10 years old,or an account suicider
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imaps3fanboy

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#40 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

[QUOTE="Ribnarak"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

With games like Halo 3,ODST,Gears of war 1 and 2,Left 4 dead 2,The up-coming Crysis 2,Cod modern warfare 2(timed exclusive maps),Crackdown,The orange box(The better verison),Frontlines,Halo reach,Bioshock(Again the better verison of the game)..It's really hard to argue that no doubt he 360 is the king of shooters there's a reason on why the Xbox image always get the Shooter stigma...And why not shooters are the...

It thing right now, Yes the 360 has other genres sucessful on the platform but the shooters are the best...Now that the 360 has crysis..PC gamers can't use the crysis series as Ammo now since it's multiplat..Sames goes with left 4 dead or half life...

As the for the PS3 rivarly i'ts a no brainer with the broken gameplay like killzone 2,MAG,uncharted 2 and reistance..It's no competion..With Halo you won't need another shooter in ur life

By the time you know it the 360 will eb taking over the RTS genre in a matter of time:D

Discuss.

NinjaOmega

ok lets take some of those multiplats out and then compare.

"With games like Halo 3,ODST,Gears of war 1 Halo reach,"

Wow, an amazing line up. Btw, who are you to decide what is the better version of a game on each console, i mean they are almost the exact same with minute differences.

1) killzone 2 does not hae broken gameplay

2) name one game for 360 that is announced or is out there, that will have an experience of 256 players in one game. (Dont think you can, yet...)
3) ALot of people don't like halo3. Trust me its just a matter of opinion.

4)Shooters for PS3: resistance 1, 2, Killzone 2, Warhawk, MGS4, MAg Uncharted 1 n 2....

To answer your questions:

1)When you sprint in killzone 2 it feels very gimmicky that's why is aid it has broken gameplay and boring level design

2)256 players is too much for me i would rahter play 5v5,or 16v16

3)I know.

4)R1,R2,KZ2,Warhawk,U1 and 2 couldnt even manage to get AAA...That's sad imo.

1 - How does it feel gimmicky, do you know what that means??

2 - Too much? thats pure fanboyism, thats like a complete war, how could you not like that? BTW they have options for smaller matches

3 - Of course you know

4 - KZ2, R2 both got 9's on Gamespot..and warhawk, and uncharted both got awesome reviews, whats your opinion on halo wars' reviews? LAWL at 6.5!!!!111!!!!!

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NinjaOmega

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#41 NinjaOmega
Member since 2009 • 319 Posts

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

The PC is king of FPSs, just like it's the kig of RTS.

Ribnarak

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

The PC will always be more powerful than the 360, trust me. IF you're just comparing pc to 360, PC is the handsdown winner. I mean seriously , the 360 has games that are developed on the pc :P , and everyconsole is going to be outdated compared to a pc. ANd if im correct, halo 1 and 2 are on the PC.

Tbh i dont know about that in my eyes PC gaming is in tatters right now,Devs and publishers are jumping ship to consoles,For example tim schafer(Brutal legend creator),Next thing you know RTS will find a new home on the 360:)

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taj7575

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#42 taj7575
Member since 2008 • 12084 Posts

PC is the best for shooters IMO

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Hanass

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#43 Hanass
Member since 2008 • 2204 Posts

[QUOTE="Ribnarak"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

NinjaOmega

The PC will always be more powerful than the 360, trust me. IF you're just comparing pc to 360, PC is the handsdown winner. I mean seriously , the 360 has games that are developed on the pc :P , and everyconsole is going to be outdated compared to a pc. ANd if im correct, halo 1 and 2 are on the PC.

Tbh i dont know about that in my eyes PC gaming is in tatters right now,Devs and publishers are jumping ship to consoles,For example tim schafer(Brutal legend creator),Next thing you know RTS will find a new home on the 360:)

Great, all you need to do now is convince 200 million PC gamers.

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NinjaOmega

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#44 NinjaOmega
Member since 2009 • 319 Posts

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

The PC is king of FPSs, just like it's the kig of RTS.

Hanass

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

You know what, that actually makes a lot of sense, considering that the controller will still be as crappy as ever for RTS, and that Xbox 360's hardware will never improve.

Halo wars proves that RTS can be done on consoles.

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NinjaOmega

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#45 NinjaOmega
Member since 2009 • 319 Posts

PC is the best for shooters IMO

taj7575

Have fun playing with a keyboard and a mouse:lol:

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imaps3fanboy

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#46 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

NinjaOmega

You know what, that actually makes a lot of sense, considering that the controller will still be as crappy as ever for RTS, and that Xbox 360's hardware will never improve.

Halo wars proves that RTS can be done on consoles.

Agreed. Halo wars reviews were awesome! C&C3 for the ps3 was much better, and it's superior to the 360 version w/ all the extra added content it has.

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pyromaniac223

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#47 pyromaniac223
Member since 2008 • 5896 Posts

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

PC is the best for shooters IMO

NinjaOmega

Have fun playing with a keyboard and a mouse:lol:

With precision in aiming not possible with a controller? Okay.
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Hanass

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#48 Hanass
Member since 2008 • 2204 Posts

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

NinjaOmega

You know what, that actually makes a lot of sense, considering that the controller will still be as crappy as ever for RTS, and that Xbox 360's hardware will never improve.

Halo wars proves that RTS can be done on consoles.

Yep, 6.5 with extremely low standards = better than all PC RTS's combined. I would be surprised if that game scored more than 2/10 if it came out on PC.

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taj7575

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#49 taj7575
Member since 2008 • 12084 Posts

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

NinjaOmega

You know what, that actually makes a lot of sense, considering that the controller will still be as crappy as ever for RTS, and that Xbox 360's hardware will never improve.

Halo wars proves that RTS can be done on consoles.

Yeah, but so what? Overall, the game sucked anway..

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TehSonofUgly

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#50 TehSonofUgly
Member since 2008 • 1643 Posts

[QUOTE="Ribnarak"]

[QUOTE="NinjaOmega"]

Give it few more years and the 360 will have game that plays better than starcraft 2

NinjaOmega

The PC will always be more powerful than the 360, trust me. IF you're just comparing pc to 360, PC is the handsdown winner. I mean seriously , the 360 has games that are developed on the pc :P , and everyconsole is going to be outdated compared to a pc. ANd if im correct, halo 1 and 2 are on the PC.

Tbh i dont know about that in my eyes PC gaming is in tatters right now,Devs and publishers are jumping ship to consoles,For example tim schafer(Brutal legend creator),Next thing you know RTS will find a new home on the 360:)

TC absolutly no one agrees with you. You made a stupid and pointless thread. Your facts are all wrong and opinions moot. Please refrain from making topics in the future if you're just going to be a blantant fanboy.

Btw, the lack of fail pics in this thread is disturbing