The Definitive Counter-Argument to Bashers of Heavenly Sword (56k warning)

The main argument bashers of Heavenly Sword have is that before HS, the developers made Kung Fu Chaos, a title largely regarded by the review community as mediocre.

Therefore, bashers of HS say that HS will not be good, because it was made by a mediocre studio.

That argument just doesn't fly. History might be indicative of the future, but it does not determine it. We have to look at the variables involved.

For starters, Kung-fu Chaos was a relatively low-budget title that centered on zany, humorous kung-fu action. Heavenly Sword is a large-scale title with a serious story, high production values, lavish art style, and a detailed combat system. It's made by a much larger team than the one that worked on Kung-fu Chaos, and the game has been in development for several years.

Kung-fu Chaos

GS score: 6.5 

Heavenly Sword.

GS Score: TBD 

As you can see, the two share little in common save for a martial arts theme, albeit interpreted in very different ways.

My second argument is that Sony Santa Monica has only made 3 games in its lifetime: Kinetica, God of War, and God of War II. Source: Sony Santa Monica developer Derek Daniel's blog. Read the entry "God of War 2's first review."

Let's take a look:

Kinetica

A futuristic motorcycle racing game.

GS Score: 7.0

God of War

GS Score: 9.3

God of War II

GS Score: 9.2

As is common knowledge, God of War 1 and 2 were some of Playstation 2's best games and most memorable experiences. Kinetica? Not so much. Imagine if people had said before GoW1's release that the game was bound to be mediocre because of Kinetica. If that argument was made, it would be long invalidated by now.

Sony Santa Monica's experience proves that developers who made a low-budget, mediocre game their first try are not bound to repeat their mistake. With a bigger budget, a bigger staff, higher production values, and a second chance, development studios can follow a mediocre title with a masterpiece. 

My final argument is that Heavenly Sword's gameplay looks awesome. Critics of Sony games often make the argument that Sony lies with CG trailers of their games. This is understandable, given the Killzone debacle.

But have a look at HS's gameplay videos:

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1679

The potential for something great here is pretty evident, in my opinion. Heavenly Sword will not be restricted to tiny arenas...you will travel across lands inspired by eastern culture and confront villains as well as entire armies.

All this is not to say that Heavenly Sword is a guaranteed success or AAA game--it's not. But it is to say that the primary argument with which bashers of the game condemn it to certain failure (or mediocrity) are unfounded.

Good point.

The same thing can be said about Bungie with Oni and Halo.

Bungie > Any Sony/Nintendo first party developer.

Nice thread. Unfortunately, your not gonna convince legions of fanboys from any side.

Myself personally, I think the game looks good, but I am concerned with the gameplay. Will it be more like a DMC-type gameplay, like Ninty-Nine-Nights, or something completely different?

I hope that it turns out to be something different, and not just another mindless hack and slash. Even the prettiest graphics don't mean nothing if the gameplay is garbage. I really hope it does turn out unique and different. Something innovative instead of the generic crap that devs put out just for money.

Bungie > Any Sony/Nintendo first party developer.

Click_Clock

Oni PS2 = 7.1

Your point?

Bungie > Any Sony/Nintendo first party developer.

 

 

Click_Clock

Bungie is a AAA dev. But Sony has more devs that put out awesome AAA games versus MS. Sony Santa Monica, Ico Team, Polyphony Digital, and Naughty Dog. Also, though Insomniac is an independant developer, they are as of now only supporting Sony platforms. 

Bungie > Any Sony/Nintendo first party developer.

Click_Clock

Retro>Bungie

You're really smart. That's a very good point you made.

Having said that, let the haters hate all they want. The game has been development for many years, it's looking to be a great title (at least AA on GS) so the shock value will be great for those expecting this game to suck.

that main character is so friggen hot i hate ps3 but i LOVE her :(STABW0UND

Why do you hate a PS3?

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]that main character is so friggen hot i hate ps3 but i LOVE her :(the-very-best

Why do you hate a PS3?

i have my reasons, if i told you someone would report me for "trolling" and i just got back from a 7 day suspension... 

Bungie > Any Sony/Nintendo first party developer.

 

 

Click_Clock

this is false

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]that main character is so friggen hot i hate ps3 but i LOVE her :(STABW0UND

Why do you hate a PS3?

i have my reasons, if i told you someone would report me for "trolling" and i just got back from a 7 day suspension...

You don't get modded just for saying you dislike a console. It's only when you say something like "PS3 is rubbish" and leave it at that.

Do you not like the console because of the price? The games? What exactly is so bad about it that you "hate" it for? 

[QUOTE="Click_Clock"]

Bungie > Any Sony/Nintendo first party developer.

web966

Retro>Bungie

Yeah, Retro is the $hizni+ :D. I hope that after they finish MP3 they'll pick up on Raven Blade. Or even Mario Football, lol.

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="the-very-best"]

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]that main character is so friggen hot i hate ps3 but i LOVE her :(the-very-best

Why do you hate a PS3?

i have my reasons, if i told you someone would report me for "trolling" and i just got back from a 7 day suspension...

You don't get modded just for saying you dislike a console. It's only when you say something like "PS3 is rubbish" and leave it at that.

Do you not like the console because of the price? The games? What exactly is so bad about it that you "hate" it for?

He has no valid reasons. He's just a hater. He gave Oblivion for the PS3 a 1/10. You're wasting your time on him. 

Can I just say it looks like God of War + estrogen? Its not that unique >_>Vandalvideo

You can, but on an objective measure it isn't designed like God of War.

Any game that features a female protagonist that lacks clothes makes me suspicious. It either leads me to believe A, that the developer will rely too heavily on demographic appeal and not enough content, or B, that the ever persistent secret of video gaming that allow females to kick *** without armor or clothing will continue to be withheld from me:( bman784

she has way more clothes and is far more conservative than some other female video game characters.

[QUOTE="the-very-best"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="the-very-best"]

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]that main character is so friggen hot i hate ps3 but i LOVE her :(KeyWii

Why do you hate a PS3?

i have my reasons, if i told you someone would report me for "trolling" and i just got back from a 7 day suspension...

You don't get modded just for saying you dislike a console. It's only when you say something like "PS3 is rubbish" and leave it at that.

Do you not like the console because of the price? The games? What exactly is so bad about it that you "hate" it for?

He has no valid reasons. He's just a hater. He gave Oblivion for the PS3 a 1/10. You're wasting your time on him.

LMAO! 1/10?

BTW referring to PS3 Oblivion...is it just me, or is the aiming (Right Analog Stick) digital and not analog. There's only like 2 speeds: slow and fast. The 360 version is more intuitive with looking around more precisely. I think Bethesda crapped the PS3 version with digital aiming :?

Any comments? 

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Can I just say it looks like God of War + estrogen? Its not that unique >_>Runningflame570

You can, but on an objective measure it isn't designed like God of War.

[QUOTE="bman784"]Any game that features a female protagonist that lacks clothes makes me suspicious. It either leads me to believe A, that the developer will rely too heavily on demographic appeal and not enough content, or B, that the ever persistent secret of video gaming that allow females to kick *** without armor or clothing will continue to be withheld from me:( Flame1

she has way more clothes and is far more conservative than some other female video game characters.

I think the partial nudity (which I believe this game will be Rated M) is very tasteful.

[QUOTE="the-very-best"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="the-very-best"]

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]that main character is so friggen hot i hate ps3 but i LOVE her :(KeyWii

Why do you hate a PS3?

i have my reasons, if i told you someone would report me for "trolling" and i just got back from a 7 day suspension...

You don't get modded just for saying you dislike a console. It's only when you say something like "PS3 is rubbish" and leave it at that.

Do you not like the console because of the price? The games? What exactly is so bad about it that you "hate" it for?

He has no valid reasons. He's just a hater. He gave Oblivion for the PS3 a 1/10. You're wasting your time on him.

i gave it a 7.5 because of poor gameplay and the fact you dont get to see how much gold you earned like the 360 version and for the record i got suspended for something that has nothing to do with ps3. 

i dont like it because:

1. poor game lineup.

2. overpriced console because of the blu-ray witch i dont want and/or need.

3. horrible online with few games that even support it.

4. the lack of a better GPU to make gameplay more smooth

5. bottlenecked bandwidth

before you say "oh you dont know anything about the ps3" blah blah your wrong. i own one. 

[QUOTE="bman784"]Any game that features a female protagonist that lacks clothes makes me suspicious. It either leads me to believe A, that the developer will rely too heavily on demographic appeal and not enough content, or B, that the ever persistent secret of video gaming that allow females to kick *** without armor or clothing will continue to be withheld from me:( Flame1

she has way more clothes and is far more conservative than some other female video game characters.

[QUOTE="Flame1"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Any game that features a female protagonist that lacks clothes makes me suspicious. It either leads me to believe A, that the developer will rely too heavily on demographic appeal and not enough content, or B, that the ever persistent secret of video gaming that allow females to kick *** without armor or clothing will continue to be withheld from me:( bman784

she has way more clothes and is far more conservative than some other female video game characters.

So what? What's wrong with that? Most gamers are males. Are you not a male? Or are you... yeah, nevermind. 

[QUOTE="KeyWii"][QUOTE="the-very-best"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="the-very-best"]

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]that main character is so friggen hot i hate ps3 but i LOVE her :(STABW0UND

Why do you hate a PS3?

i have my reasons, if i told you someone would report me for "trolling" and i just got back from a 7 day suspension...

You don't get modded just for saying you dislike a console. It's only when you say something like "PS3 is rubbish" and leave it at that.

Do you not like the console because of the price? The games? What exactly is so bad about it that you "hate" it for?

He has no valid reasons. He's just a hater. He gave Oblivion for the PS3 a 1/10. You're wasting your time on him.

i gave it a 7.5 because of poor gameplay and the fact you dont get to see how much gold you earned like the 360 version and for the record i got suspended for something that has nothing to do with ps3.

i dont like it because:

1. poor game lineup.

2. overpriced console because of the blu-ray witch i dont want and/or need.

3. horrible online with few games that even support it.

4. the lack of a better GPU to make gameplay more smooth

5. bottlenecked bandwidth

before you say "oh you dont know anything about the ps3" blah blah your wrong. i own one.

You gave oblivion 1/10. You posted a bunch of generic anti-PS3 talking points. You're a hater, sir. 

[QUOTE="KeyWii"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="KeyWii"][QUOTE="the-very-best"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="the-very-best"]

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]that main character is so friggen hot i hate ps3 but i LOVE her :(STABW0UND

Why do you hate a PS3?

i have my reasons, if i told you someone would report me for "trolling" and i just got back from a 7 day suspension...

You don't get modded just for saying you dislike a console. It's only when you say something like "PS3 is rubbish" and leave it at that.

Do you not like the console because of the price? The games? What exactly is so bad about it that you "hate" it for?

He has no valid reasons. He's just a hater. He gave Oblivion for the PS3 a 1/10. You're wasting your time on him.

i gave it a 7.5 because of poor gameplay and the fact you dont get to see how much gold you earned like the 360 version and for the record i got suspended for something that has nothing to do with ps3.

i dont like it because:

1. poor game lineup.

2. overpriced console because of the blu-ray witch i dont want and/or need.

3. horrible online with few games that even support it.

4. the lack of a better GPU to make gameplay more smooth

5. bottlenecked bandwidth

before you say "oh you dont know anything about the ps3" blah blah your wrong. i own one.

You gave oblivion 1/10. You posted a bunch of generic anti-PS3 talking points. You're a hater, sir.

look in my profile, unless your blind it says 7.5

Look below that, you dirty little scoundrel you. Under "My Recent Ratings" and by the way, whatever score you wrote in your review isn't factored into the 'You Say' score. The 1.0 rating you gave Oblivion, however, was.

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="Flame1"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Any game that features a female protagonist that lacks clothes makes me suspicious. It either leads me to believe A, that the developer will rely too heavily on demographic appeal and not enough content, or B, that the ever persistent secret of video gaming that allow females to kick *** without armor or clothing will continue to be withheld from me:( KeyWii

she has way more clothes and is far more conservative than some other female video game characters.

So what? What's wrong with that? Most gamers are males. Are you not a male? Or are you... yeah, nevermind.

i gave it a 7.5 because of poor gameplay and the fact you dont get to see how much gold you earned like the 360 version and for the record i got suspended for something that has nothing to do with ps3.

i dont like it because:

1. poor game lineup.

2. overpriced console because of the blu-ray witch i dont want and/or need.

3. horrible online with few games that even support it.

4. the lack of a better GPU to make gameplay more smooth

5. bottlenecked bandwidth

before you say "oh you dont know anything about the ps3" blah blah your wrong. i own one.

STABW0UND

1. Poor game lineup? Are you serious or are you just trying to get a reaction? I don't see how it's a bad lineup. To be honest I think it has the best out of the 3. I don't know about you but I don't wanna miss out on MGSIV, GT5, FFXIII, GTAIV, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, God of War III etc.

2. Only $120 more than the Elite, and while I agree the PS3 is expensive, it is certainly not overpriced for what you get.

3. You say you own a PS3? I know Resistance and a few other games have fantastic online. Why are you hating on a free online which will only get better?

4. .....wow.

5. Yeah, OK.

If you really believe all that just return the console. In my opinion your hate is unjustified though, maybe you should pick up a 360 or Wii instead.

[QUOTE="KeyWii"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="Flame1"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Any game that features a female protagonist that lacks clothes makes me suspicious. It either leads me to believe A, that the developer will rely too heavily on demographic appeal and not enough content, or B, that the ever persistent secret of video gaming that allow females to kick *** without armor or clothing will continue to be withheld from me:( bman784

she has way more clothes and is far more conservative than some other female video game characters.

So what? What's wrong with that? Most gamers are males. Are you not a male? Or are you... yeah, nevermind.

Look at Rachael in Ninja Gaiden Sigma. Dante doesn't wear armor either. Hayabusa is wearing a similarly thin leather outfit. All games have target demographs, and whether you like it or not, you've probably liked a game that targetted you.

[QUOTE="KeyWii"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="Flame1"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Any game that features a female protagonist that lacks clothes makes me suspicious. It either leads me to believe A, that the developer will rely too heavily on demographic appeal and not enough content, or B, that the ever persistent secret of video gaming that allow females to kick *** without armor or clothing will continue to be withheld from me:( bman784

she has way more clothes and is far more conservative than some other female video game characters.

So what? What's wrong with that? Most gamers are males. Are you not a male? Or are you... yeah, nevermind.

kratos doesnt wear armor. 

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="KeyWii"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="Flame1"]

[QUOTE="bman784"]Any game that features a female protagonist that lacks clothes makes me suspicious. It either leads me to believe A, that the developer will rely too heavily on demographic appeal and not enough content, or B, that the ever persistent secret of video gaming that allow females to kick *** without armor or clothing will continue to be withheld from me:( KeyWii

she has way more clothes and is far more conservative than some other female video game characters.

So what? What's wrong with that? Most gamers are males. Are you not a male? Or are you... yeah, nevermind.

Look at Rachael in Ninja Gaiden Sigma. Dante doesn't wear armor either. All games have target demographs, and whether you like it or not, you've probably liked a game that targetted you.

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]

i gave it a 7.5 because of poor gameplay and the fact you dont get to see how much gold you earned like the 360 version and for the record i got suspended for something that has nothing to do with ps3.

i dont like it because:

1. poor game lineup.

2. overpriced console because of the blu-ray witch i dont want and/or need.

3. horrible online with few games that even support it.

4. the lack of a better GPU to make gameplay more smooth

5. bottlenecked bandwidth

before you say "oh you dont know anything about the ps3" blah blah your wrong. i own one.

the-very-best

1. Poor game lineup? Are you serious or are you just trying to get a reaction? I don't see how it's a bad lineup. To be honest I think it has the best out of the 3. I don't know about you but I don't wanna miss out on MGSIV, GT5, FFXIII, GTAIV, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, God of War III etc.

2. Only $120 more than the Elite, and while I agree the PS3 is expensive, it is certainly not overpriced for what you get.

3. You say you own a PS3? I know Resistance and a few other games have fantastic online. Why are you hating on a free online which will only get better?

4. .....wow.

5. Yeah, OK.

If you really believe all that just return the console. In my opinion your hate is unjustified though, maybe you should pick up a 360 or Wii instead.

1. thats all based on opinion and in my opinion i dont have an intrest in any of the games coming out

2. yes but i dont want what i get (blu-ray) they should get rid of it and replace it with a better gpu and drop the price $100 IMO

3. Resistance online is decent but it dosent even copare to gears of war or any other 360 online game for that matter

4. thats what i thought

5. :lol:

*edit* i have a 360 and a wii also im not a huge fan of the wii its definatly a gimmick system and 360 is great but they need to fix there damn hardware and d-pad. 

1. thats all based on opinion and in my opinion i dont have an intrest in any of the games coming out

2. yes but i dont want what i get (blu-ray) they should get rid of it and replace it with a better gpu and drop the price $100 IMO

3. Resistance online is decent but it dosent even copare to gears of war or any other 360 online game for that matter

4. thats what i thought

5. :lol:

STABW0UND

Fine, but why would you buy something you hate?

You didn't have any interest in the games and you still bought it? I don't get it. 

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]

1. thats all based on opinion and in my opinion i dont have an intrest in any of the games coming out

2. yes but i dont want what i get (blu-ray) they should get rid of it and replace it with a better gpu and drop the price $100 IMO

3. Resistance online is decent but it dosent even copare to gears of war or any other 360 online game for that matter

4. thats what i thought

5. :lol:

the-very-best

Fine, but why would you buy something you hate?

You didn't have any interest in the games and you still bought it? I don't get it.

i have the money and when something i DO want comes out it would be good to know i have the proper equiptment to play it. thats why i have all 3. 

Good point.

The same thing can be said about Bungie with Oni and Halo.

jsnepo

Bungie did great games like Marathon before Oni, the reason Oni got f***ed up was that MS forced them to finish Halo.

[QUOTE="jsnepo"]

Good point.

The same thing can be said about Bungie with Oni and Halo.

bobby_king

Bungie did great games like Marathon before Oni, the reason Oni got f***ed up was that MS forced them to finish Halo.

i personally liked oni and sold alot of games to get it when it first came out... 

i have the money and when something i DO want comes out it would be good to know i have the proper equiptment to play it. thats why i have all 3.

STABW0UND

Now you're confusing me. You just told me this before...

in my opinion i dont have an intrest in any of the games coming out STABW0UND

? 

[QUOTE="jsnepo"]

Good point.

The same thing can be said about Bungie with Oni and Halo.

bobby_king

Bungie did great games like Marathon before Oni, the reason Oni got f***ed up was that MS forced them to finish Halo.

[QUOTE="STABW0UND"]

i have the money and when something i DO want comes out it would be good to know i have the proper equiptment to play it. thats why i have all 3.

the-very-best

Now you're confusing me. You just told me this before...

in my opinion i dont have an intrest in any of the games coming out STABW0UND

?

that he listed i mean, i have no intrest in Final fantasy or MGS. there 5 years to go hopefully they will release something to impress me. 

[QUOTE="the-very-best"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"]

i gave it a 7.5 because of poor gameplay and the fact you dont get to see how much gold you earned like the 360 version and for the record i got suspended for something that has nothing to do with ps3.

i dont like it because:

1. poor game lineup.

2. overpriced console because of the blu-ray witch i dont want and/or need.

3. horrible online with few games that even support it.

4. the lack of a better GPU to make gameplay more smooth

5. bottlenecked bandwidth

before you say "oh you dont know anything about the ps3" blah blah your wrong. i own one.

STABW0UND

1. Poor game lineup? Are you serious or are you just trying to get a reaction? I don't see how it's a bad lineup. To be honest I think it has the best out of the 3. I don't know about you but I don't wanna miss out on MGSIV, GT5, FFXIII, GTAIV, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, God of War III etc.

2. Only $120 more than the Elite, and while I agree the PS3 is expensive, it is certainly not overpriced for what you get.

3. You say you own a PS3? I know Resistance and a few other games have fantastic online. Why are you hating on a free online which will only get better?

4. .....wow.

5. Yeah, OK.

If you really believe all that just return the console. In my opinion your hate is unjustified though, maybe you should pick up a 360 or Wii instead.

1. thats all based on opinion and in my opinion i dont have an intrest in any of the games coming out

2. yes but i dont want what i get (blu-ray) they should get rid of it and replace it with a better gpu and drop the price $100 IMO

3. Resistance online is decent but it dosent even copare to gears of war or any other 360 online game for that matter

4. thats what i thought

5. :lol:

*edit* i have a 360 and a wii also im not a huge fan of the wii its definatly a gimmick system and 360 is great but they need to fix there damn hardware and d-pad.

I'll only respond to #4...

Resistance's online is on par to Gears' online. Resistance has waaay more options and better connection thanks to dedicated servers. You'd think that paying for Live would get you good connections, but nope :(. Gears is one of my favorite online games, but it's determined by the lag and not skills alot of the time.