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It shakes. It has more precise moving speed. It's more ergonomical. It feels more like you're holding a gun. But it has crappy precision for aiming and few buttons. Comment.nameless12345
This makes sense.
About the ergonomics are there real studies or proof? How many times I have seen people saying that X controller has crappy ergonomics. When it is of benefit all of a sudden gamepads are highly ergonomic. The gun part is nonsense.
As for the gun argument - the key is squeezable triggers. Those feel much like the gun's trigger.nameless12345no.... not even close :|
It shakes. It has more precise moving speed. It's more ergonomical. It feels more like you're holding a gun. But it has crappy precision for aiming and few buttons. Comment.nameless12345
Have you ever held a weapon before? I doubt it as if you had, you would never had made such a comparison.
Well does a mouse feel more like a gun? I think not.nameless12345I will be the first to admit that a mouse does not feel like a weapon, but I would never make such a claim as you did when you stated that with a controller. I have held weapons and controllers and nothing is similar.
This:
is a whole lot different than this:
I will be the first to admit that a mouse does not feel like a weapon, but I would never make such a claim as you did when you stated that with a controller. I have held weapons and controllers and nothing is similar.[QUOTE="nameless12345"]Well does a mouse feel more like a gun? I think not.WhiteKnight77
This:
is a whole lot different than this:
Why would you post such a huge image? :|
It shakes. It has more precise moving speed. It's more ergonomical. It feels more like you're holding a gun. But it has crappy precision for aiming and few buttons. Comment.nameless12345
I think from this we can safely conclude that you've never held a gun in your life.
[QUOTE="nameless12345"]It shakes. It has more precise moving speed. It's more ergonomical. It feels more like you're holding a gun. But it has crappy precision for aiming and few buttons. Comment.Eggimannd
I think from this we can safely conclude that you've never held a gun in your life.
I did but it was wooden :DI think the only advantage the gamepad has over kbm is movement
left analog > WASD
(imo of course)
Sword-Demon
I think people forget that movement in PC games is more of a combination of KB and mouse than just the KB itself.
I'd like to see a console gamer pull off a 360, jumping in the air and shooting someone all at the same time.
[QUOTE="Sword-Demon"]
I think the only advantage the gamepad has over kbm is movement
left analog > WASD
(imo of course)
Eggimannd
I think people forget that movement in PC games is more of a combination of KB and mouse than just the KB itself.
I'd like to see a console gamer pull off a 360, jumping in the air and shooting someone all at the same time.
all i'm saying is that pressure sensitivity is nice.
and i don't know what your example of spinning, jumping, and shooting has to do with movement. that's more quick, precise aiming, which is all the mouse.
Yeah... no.
There is no advantage the gamepad has over the mouse and keyboard. Even the analogue stick is negligible compared to the many advantages of the keyboard and mouse.
I will be the first to admit that a mouse does not feel like a weapon, but I would never make such a claim as you did when you stated that with a controller. I have held weapons and controllers and nothing is similar.[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]
[QUOTE="nameless12345"]Well does a mouse feel more like a gun? I think not.Guppy507
This:
is a whole lot different than this:
Why would you post such a huge image? :|
Best picture I could find.
The only thing that the controller has (That's not exactly an advantage, more like an extra) is the vibrations.tagyhagYea you'd like that wouldn't you ;)
It has more precise moving speed.nameless12345
I have always found anything beyond "run, walk, stop" in shooters to be pretty useless.
It's more ergonomical.nameless12345
Depends on the keyboard, mouse, and controller in question.
It feels more like you're holding a gun.nameless12345
Not really. Have you ever used a firearm?
Pretty much. Console controller are built with gaming in mind. KB/M just happens to suit FPS, MMO, RPGs and strategy games. Every other game is best played on a console controller. It provides more precise movement, vibration, ergonomics and everything else.
When keyboards have push sensitive keys and mice get vibration, this kinds of discussions will end.
Yeah... no.
There is no advantage the gamepad has over the mouse and keyboard. Even the analogue stick is negligible compared to the many advantages of the keyboard and mouse.foxhound_fox
Why not? There are lots of pros and cons to each.
Can you play on the couch comfortably with a M/KB? Can you play a game while lying on your back? Can you choose how slow or fast you want your character to walk and not be limited to toggling walk/run with shift? Can you get the precision you need for racing games? How about fighting games? How about vibration?
[QUOTE="Espada12"]
Have you ever held a gun before? Because a controller is nothing like that.
topgunmv
He's probably referring to the act of pulling a trigger to shoot vs. pushing a mouse button, not that it actually feels like some malformed gun in his hands.
They know that. They just wanted to flame him.
Why is it that PC-only fans can't admit that controllers have any advantages when they clearly do? I know you want to be right, but you can still be right while admitting the other side has legitimate points. The fact is millions of people prefer gamepads to KB + M. They must have their reasons.
I personally prefer gamepads over KB + Mouse for FPSs. I'll outline my reasoning below. These won't apply to everyone, but surely you can all agree that I have at least some legitimate points. I game for fun and immersion, so those are the criteria on which I am basing the advantages/disadvantages. I also work 8+ hours a day in a computer chair on a KB + Mouse. Therefore if your life differs from mine, I concede that KB + M may, in fact, be best for you.
KB + Mouse Advantages:
KB + Mouse Disadvantages (Note that I work 8+ hours a day on a computer chair with KB + Mouse.)
Gamepad Advantages:
Gamepad Disadvantages
So as you can see, for me there are more advantages to the gamepad than disadvantages, and most of the advantages have to do with immersion (which is very important to me) at the expense of precision (which is less important to me). More precise does not equal better if you have other, more heavily weighted criteria. For example, an F1 car is faster and more precise than a human, but F1 Racing isn't neccessarily a 'better' sport than sprinting.
And ultimately I'm not doing a spreadsheet in my mind when I play. I can just feel myself having more fun when gaming with a gamepad. Playing on KB +M feels like I'm gaming at work.
*Note: I have a feeling some people might take issue with my assertion that games look better when sitting back from the screen. Let me make a comparison: have you ever seen a Monet painting? How does it look up close? Pretty lousy, right? How does it look far away? Brilliant. In my opinion, games are still at a point where they don't look good close-up. You can see too many of the seams, the jaggies, the polygonal edges, texture and geometry pop-in, etc. Sit back, and they look much better. IMO, that's the main reason why the layman has no idea PC game graphics surpass console graphics. Try playing Crysis while sitting back 4 feet from the screen. Brilliant. (GTX 275, by the way).
EDIT: I used the word "concede" way too many times.
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
Yeah... no.
There is no advantage the gamepad has over the mouse and keyboard. Even the analogue stick is negligible compared to the many advantages of the keyboard and mouse.erglesmergle
Why not? There are lots of pros and cons to each.
Can you play on the couch comfortably with a M/KB? Can you play a game while lying on your back? Can you choose how slow or fast you want your character to walk and not be limited to toggling walk/run with shift? Can you get the precision you need for racing games? How about fighting games? How about vibration?
How about plugging a controller into the PC if you want these things?
If you think rumble simulates firing a gun/recoil of a gun realistically, then you are so very wrong.
No but it adds to authenticity. Same with the squeezable triggers.If you think rumble simulates firing a gun/recoil of a gun realistically, then you are so very wrong.
Vesica_Prime
Most of your points are preference, all of which I disagree with.Why is it that PC-only fans can't admit that controllers have any advantages when they clearly do? I know you want to be right, but you can still be right while admitting the other side has legitimate points. The fact is millions of people prefer gamepads to KB + M. They must have their reasons.
I personally prefer gamepads over KB + Mouse for FPSs. I'll outline my reasoning below. These won't apply to everyone, but surely you can all agree that I have at least some legitimate points. I game for fun and immersion, so those are the criteria on which I am basing the advantages/disadvantages. I also work 8+ hours a day in a computer chair on a KB + Mouse. Therefore if your life differs from mine, I concede that KB + M may, in fact, be best for you.
KB + Mouse Advantages:
- Better aiming precision
- Significantly faster turning speed
- More buttons
- Lean (which I never remember to use)
- No auto-aim required
KB + Mouse Disadvantages (Note that I work 8+ hours a day on a computer chair with KB + Mouse.)
- Less comfortable on couch or recliner, which I prefer to game on.
- I have concers about developing repetitive strain injuries if I spend both my free time and my work day repeating the same motions.
- Unlike with a gamepad, I am constantly aware of my hands hovering over the keyboard and mouse (due in part to the above concerns). This detracts from the immersion
- Requires me to sit close to the screen, which makes flaws, sprites, aliasing and other visual problems much more noticeable, reducing the perceived graphical quality. *
- Fingers can get momentarily lost on the keyboard. Locating some buttons requires looking down. It doesn't help that ASDW is the standard over SDFE (anchoring on the home row)
- Movement looks spastic and less convincing visually (to me), destracting from the immersion. The lack of spring tension reduces the feeling of weight to both moving the player and aiming a heavy weapon.
- No force feedback.
- Clicking a mouse is a rather ginger, dainty movement compared to pulling a controller trigger (which is more viscerally satisfying)
- No analog movement control
Gamepad Advantages:
- Ideal for couch gaming, resulting in greater comfort
- Allows me to sit back from the screen, which, to my eyes, greatly reduces the appearance of flaws, improving the percieved quality of the visuals. *
- Analog movement control
- Fingers cannot become lost on the gamepad
- Different ergonomic conditions than work. Physically and mentally, that difference means a lot to me. It lets my body and mind know it's time for fun.
- Gripping handles is more suitable for an intense experience than hovering hands over KB + mouse. The natural reaction of the hands during an intense experience is to grip. I prefer not to deny them that.
- Squeezing trigger + feeling force feedback feels much more viscerally satisfying than clicking a mouse (even if the controller trigger does not resemble a real weapon trigger)
- Spring tension adds more believable visual weight to the movements, increasing immersion. (movement is less spastic looking)
Gamepad Disadvantages
- Worse aiming precision
- Significantly slower turning speed
- Fewer buttons in total
- Generally no lean.
- Auto-aim can feel cheap or appear distracting (fighting the helicopter in HL2 is the most distracting example I've come across)
So as you can see, for me there are more advantages to the gamepad than disadvantages, and most of the advantages have to do with immersion (which is very important to me) at the expense of precision (which is less important to me). More precise does not equal better if you have other, more heavily weighted criteria. For example, an F1 car is faster and more precise than a human, but F1 Racing isn't neccessarily a 'better' sport than sprinting.
And ultimately I'm not doing a spreadsheet in my mind when I play. I can just feel myself having more fun when gaming with a gamepad. Playing on KB +M feels like I'm gaming at work.
*Note: I have a feeling some people might take issue with my assertion that games look better when sitting back from the screen. Let me make a comparison: have you ever seen a Monet painting? How does it look up close? Pretty lousy, right? How does it look far away? Brilliant. In my opinion, games are still at a point where they don't look good close-up. You can see too many of the seams, the jaggies, the polygonal edges, texture and geometry pop-in, etc. Sit back, and they look much better. IMO, that's the main reason why the layman has no idea PC game graphics surpass console graphics. Try playing Crysis while sitting back 4 feet from the screen. Brilliant. (GTX 275, by the way).
EDIT: I used the word "concede" way too many times.
XenonRadon
"Clicking a mouse is a rather ginger, dainty movement compared to pulling a controller trigger (which is more viscerally satisfying)"
Pressing a button on the keyboard is like pressing the freakin' huge red button that's used for nuclear strikes and clearly states DO NOT PUSH.
The amount of satisfaction I get from pressing something similar cannot compare to what a gamepad can do :P
You don't pull the "trigger" on the gamepad, you press it. I hate being a nitpicker but that's just not right.
Wiimote has all those advantages and more.
It's harder to circle someone with wiimote than kb/m. That's the only disadvantage that I notice.
[QUOTE="XenonRadon"]Most of your points are preference, all of which I disagree with.Why is it that PC-only fans can't admit that controllers have any advantages when they clearly do? I know you want to be right, but you can still be right while admitting the other side has legitimate points. The fact is millions of people prefer gamepads to KB + M. They must have their reasons.
I personally prefer gamepads over KB + Mouse for FPSs. I'll outline my reasoning below. These won't apply to everyone, but surely you can all agree that I have at least some legitimate points. I game for fun and immersion, so those are the criteria on which I am basing the advantages/disadvantages. I also work 8+ hours a day in a computer chair on a KB + Mouse. Therefore if your life differs from mine, I concede that KB + M may, in fact, be best for you.
KB + Mouse Advantages:
- Better aiming precision
- Significantly faster turning speed
- More buttons
- Lean (which I never remember to use)
- No auto-aim required
KB + Mouse Disadvantages (Note that I work 8+ hours a day on a computer chair with KB + Mouse.)
- Less comfortable on couch or recliner, which I prefer to game on.
- I have concers about developing repetitive strain injuries if I spend both my free time and my work day repeating the same motions.
- Unlike with a gamepad, I am constantly aware of my hands hovering over the keyboard and mouse (due in part to the above concerns). This detracts from the immersion
- Requires me to sit close to the screen, which makes flaws, sprites, aliasing and other visual problems much more noticeable, reducing the perceived graphical quality. *
- Fingers can get momentarily lost on the keyboard. Locating some buttons requires looking down. It doesn't help that ASDW is the standard over SDFE (anchoring on the home row)
- Movement looks spastic and less convincing visually (to me), destracting from the immersion. The lack of spring tension reduces the feeling of weight to both moving the player and aiming a heavy weapon.
- No force feedback.
- Clicking a mouse is a rather ginger, dainty movement compared to pulling a controller trigger (which is more viscerally satisfying)
- No analog movement control
Gamepad Advantages:
- Ideal for couch gaming, resulting in greater comfort
- Allows me to sit back from the screen, which, to my eyes, greatly reduces the appearance of flaws, improving the percieved quality of the visuals. *
- Analog movement control
- Fingers cannot become lost on the gamepad
- Different ergonomic conditions than work. Physically and mentally, that difference means a lot to me. It lets my body and mind know it's time for fun.
- Gripping handles is more suitable for an intense experience than hovering hands over KB + mouse. The natural reaction of the hands during an intense experience is to grip. I prefer not to deny them that.
- Squeezing trigger + feeling force feedback feels much more viscerally satisfying than clicking a mouse (even if the controller trigger does not resemble a real weapon trigger)
- Spring tension adds more believable visual weight to the movements, increasing immersion. (movement is less spastic looking)
Gamepad Disadvantages
- Worse aiming precision
- Significantly slower turning speed
- Fewer buttons in total
- Generally no lean.
- Auto-aim can feel cheap or appear distracting (fighting the helicopter in HL2 is the most distracting example I've come across)
So as you can see, for me there are more advantages to the gamepad than disadvantages, and most of the advantages have to do with immersion (which is very important to me) at the expense of precision (which is less important to me). More precise does not equal better if you have other, more heavily weighted criteria. For example, an F1 car is faster and more precise than a human, but F1 Racing isn't neccessarily a 'better' sport than sprinting.
And ultimately I'm not doing a spreadsheet in my mind when I play. I can just feel myself having more fun when gaming with a gamepad. Playing on KB +M feels like I'm gaming at work.
*Note: I have a feeling some people might take issue with my assertion that games look better when sitting back from the screen. Let me make a comparison: have you ever seen a Monet painting? How does it look up close? Pretty lousy, right? How does it look far away? Brilliant. In my opinion, games are still at a point where they don't look good close-up. You can see too many of the seams, the jaggies, the polygonal edges, texture and geometry pop-in, etc. Sit back, and they look much better. IMO, that's the main reason why the layman has no idea PC game graphics surpass console graphics. Try playing Crysis while sitting back 4 feet from the screen. Brilliant. (GTX 275, by the way).
EDIT: I used the word "concede" way too many times.
KHAndAnime
I dont even know what to say. *scratches head for 5 minutes*
1 decent cs/quake/ut experienced KB+M player will floor a 5-man gamepad team without breaking a sweat, you can make all the arguments you want in favor of the gamepad, but when everything is said and done; you have incredibly poor control over your crosshair compared to KB+M setups. It's FPS, the aim is alpha and omega.
Point the crosshair in the wrong direction and you fail, point it in the right direction and you win. Only one of these setups are almost perfectly suitable for this, while the other setup barely manages to scrape 'tolerable'.
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
Yeah... no.
There is no advantage the gamepad has over the mouse and keyboard. Even the analogue stick is negligible compared to the many advantages of the keyboard and mouse.erglesmergle
Why not? There are lots of pros and cons to each.
Can you play on the couch comfortably with a M/KB? Can you play a game while lying on your back? Can you choose how slow or fast you want your character to walk and not be limited to toggling walk/run with shift? Can you get the precision you need for racing games? How about fighting games? How about vibration?
What is with these replies of "can you play on the couch and can you play while laying on your back"? Is that seriously an advantage?This. It's no contest. Anyone who denies the superiority of KB/M in FPS games is just in complete denial.1 decent cs/quake/ut experienced KB+M player will floor a 5-man gamepad team without breaking a sweat, you can make all the arguments you want in favor of the gamepad, but when everything is said and done; you have incredibly poor control over your crosshair compared to KB+M setups. It's FPS, the aim is alpha and omega.
Point the crosshair in the wrong direction and you fail, point it in the right direction and you win. Only one of these setups are almost perfectly suitable for this, while the other setup barely manages to scrape 'tolerable'.
BiancaDK
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
Yeah... no.
There is no advantage the gamepad has over the mouse and keyboard. Even the analogue stick is negligible compared to the many advantages of the keyboard and mouse.swontario
Why not? There are lots of pros and cons to each.
Can you play on the couch comfortably with a M/KB? Can you play a game while lying on your back? Can you choose how slow or fast you want your character to walk and not be limited to toggling walk/run with shift? Can you get the precision you need for racing games? How about fighting games? How about vibration?
What is with these replies of "can you play on the couch and can you play while laying on your back"? Is that seriously an advantage?You dont watch TV while laying on your back?
What is with these replies of "can you play on the couch and can you play while laying on your back"? Is that seriously an advantage?[QUOTE="swontario"]
[QUOTE="erglesmergle"]
Why not? There are lots of pros and cons to each.
Can you play on the couch comfortably with a M/KB? Can you play a game while lying on your back? Can you choose how slow or fast you want your character to walk and not be limited to toggling walk/run with shift? Can you get the precision you need for racing games? How about fighting games? How about vibration?
erglesmergle
You dont watch TV while laying on your back?
How does any of that give an advantage in FPS games?Please Log In to post.
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