The gaming industry is so bias and out of touch with reality it isn't even funny

Now on to how dangerous the Wii market is. I will fully admit the Wii market is not thee most receptive market ever but some of the standards I read are ridiculous. Forgive me but any person who judges the userbase of a system by the sales of railshooters is completely out of touch with reality. Why is it that some how Deadspace and Darkside Chronicles are now the staple of why third parties cannot succeed on the system? If we are going to play the game of a system being unable to sell games can we not use legitimate examples? I don't understand why whenever I ask someone to explain why the Wii, the system that again will be the system that sells the most third party software in the year is being judged by Deadspace, a brand which is not even strong where it originated. (no people, 1.5 million off of heavily discounted copies is not a strong brand, don't waste my time) So here is mytquestion, why is it okay that Deadspace on rails is the core game we must judge 3 years of Wii neglect off of but if I make the statement that the Wii hasn't gotten the type of support necessary to have big selling third party games I am being unreasonable? Why is it that people love to place the blame on casual wii owners who only buy Nintendo games when the highest rated Wii game this year was, OMG, a Nintendo game? Realistically, why do people think that Wii owners must buy any mediocore half assed effort to show they care for third parties but at the same time they have low standards if they do? I would love an answer.ActicEdge

Sorry to scare you, but Reach could easily be the best seller of them all.enterawesome

I agree with much of the article. Based on you comments, it would seem that may it's you that's out of touch with reality.

The Wii IS a dangerous place for third parties. And Dead Space and Darkside Chronicles ARE prime examples of this.... as are MadWorld and No More Heroes. Critically well-received but all sold rather poorly. What reason is there for a dev to put so much effort into games that not enough people are supporting? What sells well? Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit. Mario.

I don't see anything wrong with their predictions either. Although I may not agree 100%, their opinions aren't too far off from my own. Sorry. GT5 will sell pretty well, but the racing sim genre is niche. It is not a system selling blockbuster. It's a fan-driven game that has long legs, carrying it through several years. However, next year, I wouldn't expect it to sell like gangbusters in the way Halo or Modern Warfare will sell.

VoodooHak

I agree with much of the article. Based on you comments, it would seem that may it's you that's out of touch with reality.

The Wii IS a dangerous place for third parties. And Dead Space and Darkside Chronicles ARE prime examples of this.... as are MadWorld and No More Heroes. Critically well-received but all sold rather poorly. What reason is there for a dev to put so much effort into games that not enough people are supporting? What sells well? Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit. Mario.

I don't see anything wrong with their predictions either. Although I may not agree 100%, their opinions aren't too far off from my own. Sorry. GT5 will sell pretty well, but the racing sim genre is niche. It is not a system selling blockbuster. It's a fan-driven game that has long legs, carrying it through several years. However, next year, I wouldn't expect it to sell like gangbusters in the way Halo or Modern Warfare will sell.

VoodooHak

I'm not out of touch with anything. the wii cannot be a dangerous place. They don't even try on the system. Looking at all the losses the industry experienced I posted and the fact that none of those studios have had legitimate games with chances to sell big on the wii it seems like they haven't actually proved there is a danger. Deadspace and Darkside Chronicles are not examples. They are rail shooters, as in a genre that to my knowlede has never reached 2 million in sales apart from Links Crossbow training. Rail shooters are never a legitimate exsmple of selling power. They never will be either. It is not a hugely popular genre.Explain to me why those games along with Madworld are prime examples. I'd curious becaus scoring well is not a recipe for success and never has been. NMH sold fine so its exempt.

There predictions are silly, no if ands or buts. Where is pokemon, where Mario Galaxy 2, where is Wiifitplus, wii Sports Resort, why are Bioshock 2 and Mass Effect 2 on the list, who's idea was it to put FF13 2nd? If you agree with that list, you;re wrong plain and simple. Also, GT is niche but the series on average outsells Halo, please. Also, you have a Wii, which one of those games did you purchase.

[QUOTE="lazybum131"]

[QUOTE="enterawesome"]Sorry to scare you, but Reach could easily be the best seller of them all.VoodooHak

Your missing the point that ArticEdge is making regarding the list. This forecast list of 2010 bestsellers is suppose to be created by "industry professionals taking part in the annual GamesIndustry.biz Network Survey" consisting of "9900 members working in all areas of the games business, from publishing and development to retail and education".

These "industry professionals" somehow made a top 10 bestseller list COMPLETELY DEVOID of Nintendo software even though Nintendo games have DOMINATED the sales charts for the past three years. NSMB Wii, Wii Fit Plus, Wii Sports Resort, SMG2, and Pokemon Heartgold/Soulsilver are all games that should easily by on that list. The fact that Nintendo games were completely left out reflects a huge disconnect the perception of reality these professionals have compared to actual reality of the game industry.

Whether the omission was intentional or subconscious, I think it speaks volumes about how the gaming industry perceives the relevance of Nintendo, the Wii in particular.

I've written them off, basically. The Wii's main base of support is a non-gamer/casual-gamer population that has proven to be fickle, if not volatile.... either way, they could be unpredictable from season to season. I would have no problem in disregarding the Wii when I look into my 2010 crystal ball. They're just not relevant to me, a core gamer.

Your kidding, the very fact that you are defending this tells me I am wasting my effort debating with you. You are exactly what I'm talking about, swallowing what the journalists are feeding you instead of using logic and seeing that in a professional survey that is based on sales, ignoring the market leader and its games let alone pokemon is a blatant sign of blatant bias and ignornce. I don't care for your personal opinion, no one here does, this is about the industry.

I agree with much of the article. Based on you comments, it would seem that may it's you that's out of touch with reality.

The Wii IS a dangerous place for third parties. And Dead Space and Darkside Chronicles ARE prime examples of this.... as are MadWorld and No More Heroes. Critically well-received but all sold rather poorly. What reason is there for a dev to put so much effort into games that not enough people are supporting? What sells well? Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit. Mario.

I don't see anything wrong with their predictions either. Although I may not agree 100%, their opinions aren't too far off from my own. Sorry. GT5 will sell pretty well, but the racing sim genre is niche. It is not a system selling blockbuster. It's a fan-driven game that has long legs, carrying it through several years. However, next year, I wouldn't expect it to sell like gangbusters in the way Halo or Modern Warfare will sell.

VoodooHak

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

I agree with much of the article. Based on you comments, it would seem that may it's you that's out of touch with reality.

The Wii IS a dangerous place for third parties. And Dead Space and Darkside Chronicles ARE prime examples of this.... as are MadWorld and No More Heroes. Critically well-received but all sold rather poorly. What reason is there for a dev to put so much effort into games that not enough people are supporting? What sells well? Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit. Mario.

I don't see anything wrong with their predictions either. Although I may not agree 100%, their opinions aren't too far off from my own. Sorry. GT5 will sell pretty well, but the racing sim genre is niche. It is not a system selling blockbuster. It's a fan-driven game that has long legs, carrying it through several years. However, next year, I wouldn't expect it to sell like gangbusters in the way Halo or Modern Warfare will sell.

Half-Way

That's great that they're doing a sequel. If by "great", you mean did better after ratcheting down expectations, then that's even better. It's too bad though that they haven't even cracked 1mmm worldwide after 2 years on the market.

I honestly believe that World at War is an exception, powered by the law of averages, rather than a rule.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"][QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

I agree with much of the article. Based on you comments, it would seem that may it's you that's out of touch with reality.

The Wii IS a dangerous place for third parties. And Dead Space and Darkside Chronicles ARE prime examples of this.... as are MadWorld and No More Heroes. Critically well-received but all sold rather poorly. What reason is there for a dev to put so much effort into games that not enough people are supporting? What sells well? Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit. Mario.

I don't see anything wrong with their predictions either. Although I may not agree 100%, their opinions aren't too far off from my own. Sorry. GT5 will sell pretty well, but the racing sim genre is niche. It is not a system selling blockbuster. It's a fan-driven game that has long legs, carrying it through several years. However, next year, I wouldn't expect it to sell like gangbusters in the way Halo or Modern Warfare will sell.

VoodooHak

That's great that they're doing a sequel. If by "great", you mean did better after ratcheting down expectations, then that's even better. It's too bad though that they haven't even cracked 1mmm worldwide after 2 years on the market.

I honestly believe that World at War is an exception, powered by the law of averages, rather than a rule.

TC, I have no idea what your trying to say but we are in a recession, everyone is laying people off, all forms of business is doing badly now not just gaming.

Also,

1. Name one game nintendo announced with a specific date coming out this year?

....You can't because Nintendo hasn't given any details of when their games are coming out, so how can you include Wii games if you don't know when they're coming out.

2.When has halo not sell well?

....It not that the list is bad or good, It just that based on history these games sell. You can't tell me that Halo reach is not going to sell close to a 10 million especially with its fan base. As well as the rest of the list, these games are the most popular now, why won't they sell?

3.Even good wii games are not selling.

....Sure you can say Dead space and The Conduit didn't sell because they were bad games but what about Punch out and No more Heroes, they were fantastic game and they didn't sell. Sure the wii has a bunch of shovel ware but they do have good game and they don't sell on the system like the new Silent hill on the wii. Most of the time it's a 1st party game or shovel ware that sells well and for this year all that was announced was Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid other m , and Zelda which all have no dates so far and for Zelda has not been formally announced.

So really whats your point, that you don't like generic articles that state the obvious or that they should of put Wii games on the list even though we don't know when we are getting them, or that the recession hit gaming and its the game industries fault because people who are getting pay cuts or who lost their jobs choose food and bills to pay over buying a game or maybe that you don't realise that Sony doesn't have as big as a hold over the game industry as it use to and their former demograph is so spread out that even a game like GT5 wouldn't sell as well as it use too do to the fact that it's a driving game which most of the people playing game are not into more than playing a fps.

Please, explain?:evil:

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

I agree with much of the article. Based on you comments, it would seem that may it's you that's out of touch with reality.

The Wii IS a dangerous place for third parties. And Dead Space and Darkside Chronicles ARE prime examples of this.... as are MadWorld and No More Heroes. Critically well-received but all sold rather poorly. What reason is there for a dev to put so much effort into games that not enough people are supporting? What sells well? Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit. Mario.

I don't see anything wrong with their predictions either. Although I may not agree 100%, their opinions aren't too far off from my own. Sorry. GT5 will sell pretty well, but the racing sim genre is niche. It is not a system selling blockbuster. It's a fan-driven game that has long legs, carrying it through several years. However, next year, I wouldn't expect it to sell like gangbusters in the way Halo or Modern Warfare will sell.

Half-Way

TC, I have no idea what your trying to say but we are in a recession, everyone is laying people off, all forms of business is doing badly now not just gaming.

Also,

1. Name one game nintendo announced with a specific date coming out this year?

....You can't because Nintendo hasn't given any details of when their games are coming out, so how can you include Wii games if you don't know when they're coming out.

2.When has halo not sell well?

....It not that the list is bad or good, It just that based on history these games sell. You can't tell me that Halo reach is not going to sell close to a 10 million especially with its fan base. As well as the rest of the list, these games are the most popular now, why won't they sell?

3.Even good wii games are not selling.

....Sure you can say Dead space and The Conduit didn't sell because they were bad games but what about Punch out and No more Heroes, they were fantastic game and they didn't sell. Sure the wii has a bunch of shovel ware but they do have good game and they don't sell on the system like the new Silent hill on the wii. Most of the time it's a 1st party game or shovel ware that sells well and for this year all that was announced was Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid other m , and Zelda which all have no dates so far and for Zelda has not been formally announced.

So really whats your point, that you don't like generic articles that state the obvious or that they should of put Wii games on the list even though we don't know when we are getting them, or that the recession hit gaming and its the game industries fault because people who are getting pay cut or who lost their jobs choose food and bills to pay over buying a game or maybe that you don't realise that Sony doesn't have as big as a hold over the game industry as it use to and their former demograph is so spread out that even a game like GT5 wouldn't sell as well as it use too do to the fact that it's a driving game which most of the people playing game are not into more than playing a fps.

Please, explain?:evil:

dreman999

Game sales have been going up not down. So the idea of the recession hiting us hard is overblown. The only thinkg it would affect is companies getting loans and paying employees but with how much the industry has expanded, the amount of lay offs out strips recession, sorry.

I don't need to have specific release dates. Does the next cod haave one? Does star craft have on? Does Bioshock 2 have one? Or Fifa? We know that Mario will be out this year and we also know Wii Sports Resort,Wii fit plus and NSMBWii will easily outsell many of those choices. Not to mention pokemon will bury everything and easily be top 5.

Never said Halo didn't sell well. I said the list was bad. A bad list doesn't mean it can't have some degree of correctness. And if you want to base the list on history, ME2, BS2, GOW3 and MW2 will not make the list. Not over the other games.

Some good Wii games don't sell well yes. I never denied that. I said rail shooters like deadspace are a poor example of Wii owners buying habits as it was destined to fail despite getting positive reviews. Punchout Sold fine, Its over 500k in the US alone. NMH is at 400k. For what NMH was, that's fine. Silent Hill was never going to perform well. Mixed reviews and it really just isn't suited to the Wii's userbase. Would have been better off else where. On top of that, Konami did not market the game at all. Shovelware hits on the Wii are not common. They happen but they are not all that sell. First party titles to my knowledge are Sin and Punishment 2, Endless Ocean 2, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Other M, Possible Zelda, Wii Relax and whatever launches with that, Monado, Line attack heros and Spawn Smasher. Only Zelda, Mario and Wii Relax will sell but even then its still enough to knock 3 games off thaat list.

What's my point? I dislike uninformed articles that use unrealistic standards and have a blatant bias. Again, if you are judging the Wii's potential to sell "hardcore games" after 3 years and countingof neglectoff of which was hardly mass marketed let alone in a high performing genre, you are not to e taken seriously. But seriously, all this doubt in what Isay, GT5 is not going to have difficulty outselling GOW3, not at all. Any professional should be able to see this. And people, please point me to where I mention Halo's placing in my opening (hint, I don't)

TC, I have no idea what your trying to say but we are in a recession, everyone is laying people off, all forms of business is doing badly now not just gaming.

Also,

1. Name one game nintendo announced with a specific date coming out this year?

....You can't because Nintendo hasn't given any details of when their games are coming out, so how can you include Wii games if you don't know when they're coming out.

2.When has halo not sell well?

....It not that the list is bad or good, It just that based on history these games sell. You can't tell me that Halo reach is not going to sell close to a 10 million especially with its fan base. As well as the rest of the list, these games are the most popular now, why won't they sell?

3.Even good wii games are not selling.

....Sure you can say Dead space and The Conduit didn't sell because they were bad games but what about Punch out and No more Heroes, they were fantastic game and they didn't sell. Sure the wii has a bunch of shovel ware but they do have good game and they don't sell on the system like the new Silent hill on the wii. Most of the time it's a 1st party game or shovel ware that sells well and for this year all that was announced was Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid other m , and Zelda which all have no dates so far and for Zelda has not been formally announced.

So really whats your point, that you don't like generic articles that state the obvious or that they should of put Wii games on the list even though we don't know when we are getting them, or that the recession hit gaming and its the game industries fault because people who are getting pay cuts or who lost their jobs choose food and bills to pay over buying a game or maybe that you don't realise that Sony doesn't have as big as a hold over the game industry as it use to and their former demograph is so spread out that even a game like GT5 wouldn't sell as well as it use too do to the fact that it's a driving game which most of the people playing game are not into more than playing a fps.

Please, explain?:evil:

dreman999

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

TC, I have no idea what your trying to say but we are in a recession, everyone is laying people off, all forms of business is doing badly now not just gaming.

Also,

1. Name one game nintendo announced with a specific date coming out this year?

....You can't because Nintendo hasn't given any details of when their games are coming out, so how can you include Wii games if you don't know when they're coming out.

2.When has halo not sell well?

....It not that the list is bad or good, It just that based on history these games sell. You can't tell me that Halo reach is not going to sell close to a 10 million especially with its fan base. As well as the rest of the list, these games are the most popular now, why won't they sell?

3.Even good wii games are not selling.

....Sure you can say Dead space and The Conduit didn't sell because they were bad games but what about Punch out and No more Heroes, they were fantastic game and they didn't sell. Sure the wii has a bunch of shovel ware but they do have good game and they don't sell on the system like the new Silent hill on the wii. Most of the time it's a 1st party game or shovel ware that sells well and for this year all that was announced was Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid other m , and Zelda which all have no dates so far and for Zelda has not been formally announced.

So really whats your point, that you don't like generic articles that state the obvious or that they should of put Wii games on the list even though we don't know when we are getting them, or that the recession hit gaming and its the game industries fault because people who are getting pay cuts or who lost their jobs choose food and bills to pay over buying a game or maybe that you don't realise that Sony doesn't have as big as a hold over the game industry as it use to and their former demograph is so spread out that even a game like GT5 wouldn't sell as well as it use too do to the fact that it's a driving game which most of the people playing game are not into more than playing a fps.

Please, explain?:evil:

Half-Way

1. Name one game nintendo announced with a specific date coming out this year?

....You can't because Nintendo hasn't given any details of when their games are coming out, so how can you include Wii games if you don't know when they're coming out.dreman999

Umm...Nintendo announced at E3 2009 that SMG2 and Metroid: Other M were 2010 releases. SMG2 should definitely be above GoW3, Mass Effect 2 and BioShock 2. And about a 'definite' date, Starcraft 2 doesn't have one either but it's on the list.

You'll also notice the list includes Modern Warfare 2, meaning these industry pros thought it would have legs. Anyone knowledgable would have then also included the likes of NSMB Wii, Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit Plus considering it's well known that these kinds of Nintendo games have sales legs. Heck, Mario Kart Wii could have a chance.

2.When has halo not sell well?

....It not that the list is bad or good, It just that based on history these games sell. You can't tell me that Halo reach is not going to sell close to a 10 million especially with its fan base. As well as the rest of the list, these games are the most popular now, why won't they sell?dreman999

That's not ArcticEdge's point, some of the games (Halo - 8m+ seller, CoD - 10m+ seller , Gran Turismo - 10m seller) definitely deserve to be on the list based on past history, the rest, not so much.

3.Even good wii games are not selling.dreman999

Others in this thread and other threads have already gone through the reasons and explanations why these particular games don't sell. One point I'd like to make, what proof do you have that shovelware sells more than it would than any other winning console (PS2, PS1, Snes, etc.) other than naming Carnival Games and Game Party as budget games that sold over a million? People post this all the time, but they never have any numbers to back it up.

lol wow, I think you need to maybe go outside or find a hobby =S. That post is just too long!

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

TC, I have no idea what your trying to say but we are in a recession, everyone is laying people off, all forms of business is doing badly now not just gaming.

Also,

1. Name one game nintendo announced with a specific date coming out this year?

....You can't because Nintendo hasn't given any details of when their games are coming out, so how can you include Wii games if you don't know when they're coming out.

2.When has halo not sell well?

....It not that the list is bad or good, It just that based on history these games sell. You can't tell me that Halo reach is not going to sell close to a 10 million especially with its fan base. As well as the rest of the list, these games are the most popular now, why won't they sell?

3.Even good wii games are not selling.

....Sure you can say Dead space and The Conduit didn't sell because they were bad games but what about Punch out and No more Heroes, they were fantastic game and they didn't sell. Sure the wii has a bunch of shovel ware but they do have good game and they don't sell on the system like the new Silent hill on the wii. Most of the time it's a 1st party game or shovel ware that sells well and for this year all that was announced was Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid other m , and Zelda which all have no dates so far and for Zelda has not been formally announced.

So really whats your point, that you don't like generic articles that state the obvious or that they should of put Wii games on the list even though we don't know when we are getting them, or that the recession hit gaming and its the game industries fault because people who are getting pay cut or who lost their jobs choose food and bills to pay over buying a game or maybe that you don't realise that Sony doesn't have as big as a hold over the game industry as it use to and their former demograph is so spread out that even a game like GT5 wouldn't sell as well as it use too do to the fact that it's a driving game which most of the people playing game are not into more than playing a fps.

Please, explain?:evil:

ActicEdge

Game sales have been going up not down. So the idea of the recession hiting us hard is overblown. The only thinkg it would affect is companies getting loans and paying employees but with how much the industry has expanded, the amount of lay offs out strips recession, sorry.

I don't need to have specific release dates. Does the next cod haave one? Does star craft have on? Does Bioshock 2 have one? Or Fifa? We know that Mario will be out this year and we also know Wii Sports Resort,Wii fit plus and NSMBWii will easily outsell many of those choices. Not to mention pokemon will bury everything and easily be top 5.

Never said Halo didn't sell well. I said the list was bad. A bad list doesn't mean it can't have some degree of correctness. And if you want to base the list on history, ME2, BS2, GOW3 and MW2 will not make the list. Not over the other games.

Some good Wii games don't sell well yes. I never denied that. I said rail shooters like deadspace are a poor example of Wii owners buying habits as it was destined to fail despite getting positive reviews. Punchout Sold fine, Its over 500k in the US alone. NMH is at 400k. For what NMH was, that's fine. Silent Hill was never going to perform well. Mixed reviews and it really just isn't suited to the Wii's userbase. Would have been better off else where. On top of that, Konami did not market the game at all. Shovelware hits on the Wii are not common. They happen but they are not all that sell. First party titles to my knowledge are Sin and Punishment 2, Endless Ocean 2. Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Other M, Possible Zelda, Wii Relax and whatever launches with that, Monado, Line attack heros and Spawn Smasher. Only Zelda, Mario and Wii Relax will sell but even then its still enough to knock 3 games off thaat list.

What's my point? I dislike uninformed articles that use unrealistic standards and have a blatant bias. Again, if you are judging the Wii's potential to sell "hardcore games" after 3 years and countingof neglectoff of which was hardly mass marketed let alone in a high performing genre, you are not to e taken seriously. But seriously, all this doubt in what Isay, GT5 is not going to have difficulty outselling GOW3, not at all. Any professional should be able to see this. And people, please point me to where I mention Halo's placing in my opening (hint, I don't)

Don't believe everything you read ? Ever heard of something called history ? In the immortal words of Modern Warfare 2, " History is written by the victor ". People lie bro.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

Umm...Nintendo announced at E3 2009 that SMG2 and Metroid: Other M were 2010 releases. SMG2 should definitely be above GoW3, Mass Effect 2 and BioShock 2. And about a 'definite' date, Starcraft 2 doesn't have one either but it's on the list.

You'll also notice the list includes Modern Warfare 2, meaning these industry pros thought it would have legs. Anyone knowledgable would have then also included the likes of NSMB Wii, Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit Plus considering it's well known that these kinds of Nintendo games have sales legs. Heck, Mario Kart Wii could have a chance.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]2.When has halo not sell well?

....It not that the list is bad or good, It just that based on history these games sell. You can't tell me that Halo reach is not going to sell close to a 10 million especially with its fan base. As well as the rest of the list, these games are the most popular now, why won't they sell?lazybum131

That's not ArcticEdge's point, some of the games (Halo - 8m+ seller, CoD - 10m+ seller , Gran Turismo - 10m seller) definitely deserve to be on the list based on past history, the rest, not so much.

3.Even good wii games are not selling.dreman999

Others in this thread and other threads have already gone through the reasons and explanations why these particular games don't sell. One point I'd like to make, what proof do you have that shovelware sells more than it would than any other winning console (PS2, PS1, Snes, etc.) other than naming Carnival Games and Game Party as budget games that sold over a million? People post this all the time, but they never have any numbers to back it up.

2.The 10 million is it's life time sales of the entire GT series. Halo 3 only sold 10 million not ever counting the other games in the series. GT5 IS ON THE LIST and the rest of the games are what popular now. Tell me me won't they sell.

3. Don't care why they aren't selling. They are just not selling.

Please reread my post.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

TC, I have no idea what your trying to say but we are in a recession, everyone is laying people off, all forms of business is doing badly now not just gaming.

Also,

1. Name one game nintendo announced with a specific date coming out this year?

....You can't because Nintendo hasn't given any details of when their games are coming out, so how can you include Wii games if you don't know when they're coming out.

2.When has halo not sell well?

....It not that the list is bad or good, It just that based on history these games sell. You can't tell me that Halo reach is not going to sell close to a 10 million especially with its fan base. As well as the rest of the list, these games are the most popular now, why won't they sell?

3.Even good wii games are not selling.

....Sure you can say Dead space and The Conduit didn't sell because they were bad games but what about Punch out and No more Heroes, they were fantastic game and they didn't sell. Sure the wii has a bunch of shovel ware but they do have good game and they don't sell on the system like the new Silent hill on the wii. Most of the time it's a 1st party game or shovel ware that sells well and for this year all that was announced was Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid other m , and Zelda which all have no dates so far and for Zelda has not been formally announced.

So really whats your point, that you don't like generic articles that state the obvious or that they should of put Wii games on the list even though we don't know when we are getting them, or that the recession hit gaming and its the game industries fault because people who are getting pay cut or who lost their jobs choose food and bills to pay over buying a game or maybe that you don't realise that Sony doesn't have as big as a hold over the game industry as it use to and their former demograph is so spread out that even a game like GT5 wouldn't sell as well as it use too do to the fact that it's a driving game which most of the people playing game are not into more than playing a fps.

Please, explain?:evil:

dreman999

Game sales have been going up not down. So the idea of the recession hiting us hard is overblown. The only thinkg it would affect is companies getting loans and paying employees but with how much the industry has expanded, the amount of lay offs out strips recession, sorry.

I don't need to have specific release dates. Does the next cod haave one? Does star craft have on? Does Bioshock 2 have one? Or Fifa? We know that Mario will be out this year and we also know Wii Sports Resort,Wii fit plus and NSMBWii will easily outsell many of those choices. Not to mention pokemon will bury everything and easily be top 5.

Never said Halo didn't sell well. I said the list was bad. A bad list doesn't mean it can't have some degree of correctness. And if you want to base the list on history, ME2, BS2, GOW3 and MW2 will not make the list. Not over the other games.

Some good Wii games don't sell well yes. I never denied that. I said rail shooters like deadspace are a poor example of Wii owners buying habits as it was destined to fail despite getting positive reviews. Punchout Sold fine, Its over 500k in the US alone. NMH is at 400k. For what NMH was, that's fine. Silent Hill was never going to perform well. Mixed reviews and it really just isn't suited to the Wii's userbase. Would have been better off else where. On top of that, Konami did not market the game at all. Shovelware hits on the Wii are not common. They happen but they are not all that sell. First party titles to my knowledge are Sin and Punishment 2, Endless Ocean 2. Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Other M, Possible Zelda, Wii Relax and whatever launches with that, Monado, Line attack heros and Spawn Smasher. Only Zelda, Mario and Wii Relax will sell but even then its still enough to knock 3 games off thaat list.

What's my point? I dislike uninformed articles that use unrealistic standards and have a blatant bias. Again, if you are judging the Wii's potential to sell "hardcore games" after 3 years and countingof neglectoff of which was hardly mass marketed let alone in a high performing genre, you are not to e taken seriously. But seriously, all this doubt in what Isay, GT5 is not going to have difficulty outselling GOW3, not at all. Any professional should be able to see this. And people, please point me to where I mention Halo's placing in my opening (hint, I don't)

The recession happened, I don't deny it. The closure outstrip the recession plain and simple, that list is just 2009, we have all od 08 as well, sorry, recession is not the only cause. Its the PS3 and 360 regardless of whether you want tobelieve it or not.

Mario is coming this year, its all but confirmed. As for Zelda not selling to casuals, Zelda TP would be in the top 5 selling PS3 games and the tope 5 360 as well. Its not a sales light weight, not at all. I never mentioned Metroid as a big seller so please don't act like I did. And prime 3 was not a launch title. August 07 is not november 06.

Never said they would't selll but over Mario, Zelda and the wii series and pokemon. Don't kid yourself. super Mario Galaxy outsold every game on the PS3 by a wide margin. The sequel will do well undoubtebly. You put too much stock in the idea that I'm unaware of sales range, I'm not, the games will sell well but not that well.

i never use VG trash, don't attach me to that site. Punchout sold around 500k in the UUS according to NPD insiders at neogaf and tracking data. 400k for NMH is straight from Marvelous. those are the numbers. With those games your are just repeating what I said, I said theyy won't be big sellers. What sells on the Wii is fairly obvious, just from NPD leaks and general gathered data I can gather the general trend of what sells and what doesn't, its not hard. Telling me GT is niche is silly. every GT game has outsold every GOW game 3 times over. Its not going to be different this time. I seem to be the only one in touch with reality around here. GT is far bigger than GOW.

I whole heartily agree. Third parties have nearly no right to complain. The top selling wii games are nintendo games because the top wii games are nintendo games. If third parties want success on the wii, they have to put real effort into their games. Madworld and the conduit were awful. HotD, dead space, and RE were all short rail shooters with no replay value.None of these games had the production values of any 1st party game.

Little Kings Story was way delayed, was missing pointer support, and was so kiddy I thought it would give me diabetes. It was good, but severely niche.

IMO, the only two third party games that meet nintendo's quality level was LKS and Silent Hill. LKS is way to niche to every be successful. It''s the same problem that kept zack and wiki from ever being a massive success.

Who knows how well silent hill will do. There's a lot of positive buzz around it, it looks great, has wonderful attention to detail, amazing controls, and isn't kiddy. But, silent hill has never been a massive seller and the game is pretty much a new genre. It's also pretty short.

CoD: MW is a good game too, it's just 2 years too late, but it should sell well.

All in all, that's pretty sad compared to what nintendo's been putting out. So third parties can cry me a river when their half-arsed attempts at games fail.

2.The 10 million is it's life time sales of the entire GT series.

dreman999

:lol:

You are completely unaware aren't you?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6190676.html

Gran Turismo takes 50 millionth sales lap

Press skepticism aside, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue will go down in history as having helped the Gran Turismo series reach a major milestone. Today, SCEA proclaimed to the world that the racing franchise has shipped 50 million units worldwide, thanks in large part to this latest entry, which is available both at retail and digitally via the PlayStation Store.

Gamespot

And you are actually arguing with me on this. Really?

TC, I have no idea what your trying to say but we are in a recession, everyone is laying people off, all forms of business is doing badly now not just gaming.

Also,

1. Name one game nintendo announced with a specific date coming out this year?

....You can't because Nintendo hasn't given any details of when their games are coming out, so how can you include Wii games if you don't know when they're coming out.

dreman999

Name the specific release date of Halo:reach, name the title of COD7 and its release date, name the release date of Gran Turismo 5...

also Zelda Wii: Oct 2010 which is much more specific than most games on the list.

2.The 10 million is it's life time sales of the entire GT series.

dreman999

WARNING! WARNING! The TC's topic presents too much logic for the current mentality of the video game industry and its most vocal inhabitants. Please discard this thread and all that it stands for immediately!

Anyways, this is quite the pathetic list. To completely dismiss the company that has moved by far the most software in the past few years in a multitude of ways really shows how foolishly the so-called "industry experts" are viewing Nintendo these days. What's crazier about that list is that the games they expect to sell is not even totally consistent. For instance, how is it that you expect a rise in the so-called social/casual genre, and yet, not have a single game from this "genre" show up as a top seller or even a "dark horse?" It's like people like to say stuff just to say it these days and put no thought into what exactly they're implying. But yeah... those list definitely reek of shortsightedness and a complete disinterest in a portion of the market that is currently dominating, and it's a shame that you have many (including those who browse these forums) who eat up every bit of things like this, without thinking for themselves about how things have gone.

Still, if it was only heresy and had no effect on how things within the industry are actually being handled, it would be much of a problem. However, like you (the TC) pointed out, you have developers buying into this nonsense that the Wii and Nintendo in general is such a dangerous thing to deal with. Publishers went on a pointless witch-hunt to find the "mature/hardcore" Wii market with untested/unestablished games, and now have come to a quick and seemingly decisive conclusion that the Wii isn't a viable platform in terms of game development. Never mind the fact that the Wii has had the best selling games this gen and continues to show that it can move software in droves that rivals the HD systems WITH the slow-burning effect that only the Nintendo platforms have shown to give to games this gen. Oh no... since a couple of rail-shooters bombed, the Wii can't sell a thing these days, and publishers have been more than vocal about it of late. Meh. Their loss, I say.

Longer story short, the attitude that this industry has had the past few years has been nothing short of sad. At a time where inclusion has been the key to flourishing, all of the big-talkers insist that the way to go is focusing on being exclusive and insisting that the philosophies of the past are the way of the future. Because we all know that Sony and Microsoft have tried to adapt a more "casual" approach to their consoles lately in order to appease the 18-35 demographic that won't go much further beyond the games they've always clinged to, right? But hey, if people wish to wallow in their own bias and ignorance, if that is what one can call the latter, I say let them. Fortunately, the results we've seen thus far this gen have had very little in common to what many said was going to happen, so it's really not a significant matter in the big picture. :P

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

2.The 10 million is it's life time sales of the entire GT series.

ActicEdge

:lol:

You are completely unaware aren't you?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6190676.html

Gran Turismo takes 50 millionth sales lap

Press skepticism aside, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue will go down in history as having helped the Gran Turismo series reach a major milestone. Today, SCEA proclaimed to the world that the racing franchise has shipped 50 million units worldwide, thanks in large part to this latest entry, which is available both at retail and digitally via the PlayStation Store.

Gamespot

And you are actually arguing with me on this. Really?

[QUOTE="dragonfly110"]

• 1. Halo: Reach
• 2. Final Fantasy XIII
• 3. StarCraft II
• 4. Call of Duty 7
• 5. FIFA 11
• 6. BioShock 2
• 7. Mass Effect 2
• 8. God of War III
• 9. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
• 10. Gran Turismo 5

Granturismo 5 Prologue sold 2.5 million in Europe alone. GOW3 is not going to touch GT5, quote me on that. It is Sony's biggest frnachise, how exactly is it logical to put a relatively smaller franchise above it on principle alone? That doesn't even excuse the fact that ME2 and Bioshock2 are above it.

ActicEdge

For one I think you're underestimating ME2, also, remember that GT5 is being launched on the PS3 alone, a platform that generally tend to move less units than the games on the X360. Consider that there's a lot more decent to good driving games out now compared to when prolouge was released. I don't know how much BioShock 1 sold, but again, remeber that it's being released on three platforms, not one.

GT5 might have been Sony's biggest franchise at some point but it's a long time ago that it held the same respect as it did in the past. A lot is likely to be decided by how good the game actually is but it's no longer 'the best and only' really good driving game on the consoles, that alone means a lot when it comes to how well it'll sell.

[QUOTE="Yandere"]We're in a rescission, what's new?ActicEdge

Being in a recession is still not an excuse. The game industry has grown significantly, it has purchased more games than ever, therefore the is no reason so many devs should be dying out on that principle alone.

That's nice but it dosent actually fit reality. Cutbacks and closings are often caused by investors or parent companies wanting to 'play it safe' rather than the studio messing up. Very few studios fund their own games, they are paid by publishers. During a resession, publishers tend to become more hesitant to fund new projects, even if the previous project generated a profit. In short it's a lot harder for companies to get new funding for new games.. even if their last game did well. That's why you're seeing closings and shutdown.. both in this industry and in other industries.

But hey I guess they are just all idiots because they don't see GT as being as strong a brand as you do. As for the wii. I could see SMG2 make the list, but pokemon? As far as I can tell, the only pokomon game released for the wii sold only 1.2 million.. that wouldnt be near enough to make it ont that list. Even Metroid Prime, hailed as one of the best games this gen is only listed as having sold 1.31 mill. The whole issue with the Wii from a developer point of view has always been that games sales on the Wii tend to be really bad unless the game has Wii or Mario in it's title.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

:lol:

You are completely unaware aren't you?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6190676.html

Gran Turismo takes 50 millionth sales lap

[QUOTE="Gamespot"]

Press skepticism aside, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue will go down in history as having helped the Gran Turismo series reach a major milestone. Today, SCEA proclaimed to the world that the racing franchise has shipped 50 million units worldwide, thanks in large part to this latest entry, which is available both at retail and digitally via the PlayStation Store.

dreman999

And you are actually arguing with me on this. Really?

Nice thread Actic. I find it a shame how even professionals dismiss Wii and Ds games just because they don't like or it's not targeted for them. Not very professional if you ask me.

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]I think somebody needs to take some play a little Flower and relax a bit.ActicEdge

This is funny, you think I was not relaxed when I did this? Sorry I want to have a brain stimulating conversation instead of entering another GRAPHICS KING thread.

Nice thread Actic. I find it a shame how even professionals dismiss Wii and Ds games just because they don't like or it's not targeted for them. Not very professional if you ask me.

boredy-Mcbored

[QUOTE="boredy-Mcbored"]

Nice thread Actic. I find it a shame how even professionals dismiss Wii and Ds games just because they don't like or it's not targeted for them. Not very professional if you ask me.

Mazoch

Okay so when you are making the list of best selling games of the year, why exaclty do you ignore those titles?

I think somebody needs to take some play a little Flower and relax a bit.Greyfeld

[QUOTE="Mazoch"][QUOTE="boredy-Mcbored"]

Nice thread Actic. I find it a shame how even professionals dismiss Wii and Ds games just because they don't like or it's not targeted for them. Not very professional if you ask me.

ActicEdge

Okay so when you are making the list of best selling games of the year, why exactly do you ignore those titles?

For one I think you're underestimating ME2, also, remember that GT5 is being launched on the PS3 alone, a platform that generally tend to move less units than the games on the X360. Consider that there's a lot more decent to good driving games out now compared to when prolouge was released. I don't know how much BioShock 1 sold, but again, remeber that it's being released on three platforms, not one.

GT5 might have been Sony's biggest franchise at some point but it's a long time ago that it held the same respect as it did in the past. A lot is likely to be decided by how good the game actually is but it's no longer 'the best and only' really good driving game on the consoles, that alone means a lot when it comes to how well it'll sell.

Mazoch

ME2 will not be one of the best selling games of the year, that's laughable. Neither will Bioshock 2. But I will save this thread and say I told you so because people are under the assumption these games are going to outsell Nintendo games with the best legs in the history of the industry. We'll see is all I have to say.

That's nice but it dosent actually fit reality. Cutbacks and closings are often caused by investors or parent companies wanting to 'play it safe' rather than the studio messing up. Very few studios fund their own games, they are paid by publishers. During a resession, publishers tend to become more hesitant to fund new projects, even if the previous project generated a profit. In short it's a lot harder for companies to get new funding for new games.. even if their last game did well. That's why you're seeing closings and shutdown.. both in this industry and in other industries.

But hey I guess they are just all idiots because they don't see GT as being as strong a brand as you do. As for the wii. I could see SMG2 make the list, but pokemon? As far as I can tell, the only pokomon game released for the wii sold only 1.2 million.. that wouldnt be near enough to make it ont that list. Even Metroid Prime, hailed as one of the best games this gen is only listed as having sold 1.31 mill. The whole issue with the Wii from a developer point of view has always been that games sales on the Wii tend to be really bad unless the game has Wii or Mario in it's title.

Mazoch

I disagree because I have been following the industry and they never cut back unless they have dead weight. It makes no sense that a company like EA who is swallowing up so many devs would just throw it all away. Their overwhelming size has always been their advantage. Most of those layoff are also form fully owned studios opposed to contracts. Also again, if the industry is making more money during te recession than before, why exactly were they cutting back? I am aware that studios will close if they can't get their game published but again, with the buynig habits, even if an increased closure would occur that amount is not healthy. And the simple fact is most of those layoffs come after a game not on the Wii bombs. Its almost eerie how the announcements are made. If what you say is true (which I don believe) you'd think the devs would be more careful with their money but shedding studios has not made the losses any less significant. They run their companies like idiots.

Not my words but GT is bigger than the majority of those games. Pokemon on the DS, Heart Gold and Soul Silver, already at 3.3 million in Japan. Tear up the list. Again, why are their not even nintendo games on that list? And really, no 3rd game on the wii has aside from MH3 has met the criteria it actually takes to sell. That's just too bad but for the effort they put in, 3d parties get more than they deserve out.

[QUOTE="dragonfly110"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

This is funny, you think I was not relaxed when I did this? Sorry I want to have a brain stimulating conversation instead of entering another GRAPHICS KING thread.

ActicEdge

but you mentioned GT5 AND Halo Reach, you know that pics are going to be flooding in eventually :P

I actually never mentioned Reach, its justifiable as #1, but there is no way in hell GOW, ME2, or Bioshock are outselling GT. This list is entirely not based on logic. The hype for GOW3 on the forums is not a measurement, GT in Europe alone has outsold any GOW game handily.

Reach won't hit #1, Halo community is split in so many directions at the moment. Plenty of people just want Halo 4, calling Reach a worthless prequel.

And no, people don't just buy things because of the Halo name, they do think about multiplayer and story, which is where even more rifts have come. One side wants multiplayer-heavy with Reach, other wants Combat Evolved story of sorts to be the game.

GT5 looks like it's been declining from each sequel, really, no idea why it sells so much, just don't hear anything about it. But that will probably be first.

[QUOTE="Mazoch"]

For one I think you're underestimating ME2, also, remember that GT5 is being launched on the PS3 alone, a platform that generally tend to move less units than the games on the X360. Consider that there's a lot more decent to good driving games out now compared to when prolouge was released. I don't know how much BioShock 1 sold, but again, remeber that it's being released on three platforms, not one.

GT5 might have been Sony's biggest franchise at some point but it's a long time ago that it held the same respect as it did in the past. A lot is likely to be decided by how good the game actually is but it's no longer 'the best and only' really good driving game on the consoles, that alone means a lot when it comes to how well it'll sell.

ActicEdge

ME2 will not be one of the best selling games of the year, that's laughable. Neither will Bioshock 2. But I will save this thread and say I told you so because people are under the assumption these games are going to outsell Nintendo games with the best legs in the history of the industry. We'll see is all I have to say.

That's nice but it dosent actually fit reality. Cutbacks and closings are often caused by investors or parent companies wanting to 'play it safe' rather than the studio messing up. Very few studios fund their own games, they are paid by publishers. During a resession, publishers tend to become more hesitant to fund new projects, even if the previous project generated a profit. In short it's a lot harder for companies to get new funding for new games.. even if their last game did well. That's why you're seeing closings and shutdown.. both in this industry and in other industries.

But hey I guess they are just all idiots because they don't see GT as being as strong a brand as you do. As for the wii. I could see SMG2 make the list, but pokemon? As far as I can tell, the only pokomon game released for the wii sold only 1.2 million.. that wouldnt be near enough to make it ont that list. Even Metroid Prime, hailed as one of the best games this gen is only listed as having sold 1.31 mill. The whole issue with the Wii from a developer point of view has always been that games sales on the Wii tend to be really bad unless the game has Wii or Mario in it's title.

Mazoch

I disagree because I have been following the industry and they never cut back unless they have dead weight. It makes no sense that a company like EA who is swallowing up so many devs would just throw it all away. Their overwhelming size has always been their advantage. Most of those layoff are also form fully owned studios opposed to contracts. Also again, if the industry is making more money during te recession than before, why exactly were they cutting back? I am aware that studios will close if they can't get their game published but again, with the buynig habits, even if an increased closure would occur that amount is not healthy. And the simple fact is most of those layoffs come after a game not on the Wii bombs. Its almost eerie how the announcements are made. If what you say is true (which I don believe) you'd think the devs would be more careful with their money but shedding studios has not made the losses any less significant. They run their companies like idiots.

Not my words but GT is bigger than the majority of those games. Pokemon on the DS, Heart Gold and Soul Silver, already at 3.3 million in Japan. Tear up the list. Again, why are their not even nintendo games on that list? And really, no 3rd game on the wii has aside from MH3 has met the criteria it actually takes to sell. That's just too bad but for the effort they put in, 3d parties get more than they deserve out.

I'm sorry but then you havent been following anything at all.. no offense. The games industry has a long tradition of firing people at the end of projects. It's VERY common for companies to lay off 10-20% of it's work force at the end of a big project. And as said, they are cutting back because fewer publishers are willing to lend them money for new games, just like banks today are less willing to lend money to buisnesses or private people. You're misunderstanding the situation, the devs dont have any money.. well at least not on the scale were talking about. They borrow the money to start making a game, they don't make a game and then try to get money to publish it.

The situation is slightly diffrent for compaanies that publish games themselves (EA, Ubisoft, Sony and others). But the VIP's who give out the money largely behave the same. They are less likely to give a studio 10 million dollars to make a game that might be great than they were 2-3 years ago.

As I said in the earlier post GT WAS bigger. It remains to be seen if it still is. Sure it'll sell quite well.. all of those games will, but GT has never had anything resembling the competition it has today. It sold 50 million units while mostly being in a situation where it was the best looking car game, the best driving simulator (with no real competition), Released on the best selling platforms (PS1 and PS2) .. for the most part it had no competition until a few years after this generation started. Today it's Jonny-come-late after Forza 3, Dirt 2 and others.. all very well recieved, good looking driving simulators. It's released on the consoles with the lowest sales this gen. Sure it could still blow away all others but I don't think it's a given. It's certianly a much tougher situation than the previous iterations of the franchise.

Soooooo the people who are in the industry and actually go through the process of developing/publishing/marketing a game don't understand the industry, but you do?

Soooooo the people who are in the industry and actually go through the process of developing/publishing/marketing a game don't understand the industry, but you do?

Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

Soooooo the people who are in the industry and actually go through the process of developing/publishing/marketing a game don't understand the industry, but you do?

gmc2u_64

Soooooo the people who are in the industry and actually go through the process of developing/publishing/marketing a game don't understand the industry, but you do?

Teufelhuhn

top 10 selling games of 2009

1 Wii Sports Nintendo 18,916,589

2 Wii Sports Resort Nintendo 11,833,871

3 New Super Mario Bros. Wii Nintendo 9,257,731

4 Wii Fit Nintendo 9,178,083

5 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 Activision 8,533,184

6 Wii Fit Plus Nintendo 7,600,738

7 Mario Kart Wii Nintendo 7,286,885

8 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 Activision 5,854,861

9 Wii Play Nintendo 5,524,438

10

They must be right, Nintendo will suddenly die in 2010, like it should in 2006, 2007, etc...

Explain their "best selling" list when 2009 looks like this:

They must be right, Nintendo will suddenly die in 2010, like it should in 2006, 2007, etc...

loco145

[QUOTE="loco145"]

Explain their "best selling" list when 2009 looks like this:

They must be right, Nintendo will suddenly die in 2010, like it should in 2006, 2007, etc...

Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="loco145"]

Explain their "best selling" list when 2009 looks like this:

They must be right, Nintendo will suddenly die in 2010, like it should in 2006, 2007, etc...

loco145

Of course it can be questioned. But note that it says that the web site has 9900 members. It never say anything about how many of those participated in the survey. It says nothing of what possitions those members generally hold. It says nothing about how the survey was structured, what questions were asked and what limitations were placed on the participants. Also from my previous post:

- The list was based on a survey. What did that survey look like? Did it list the possible games? If so was the list missing Nintendo games?
- The survey might have asked about non-portable consoles. If so the article should have stated that, and it would be a silly stipulation to make in the first place. but with the actual survey it's hard to say how things look, what questions are asked and so on.
- I believe Gamebiz is a western site and most of the members are likely westerners. From a 'professional' point of view, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of western games that do well on the Wii or DS (Feel free to correct me, that just an impression). But if western developers traditionally do badly on those platforms they are less likely to take them into consideration when guessing what will be the 'big titles' in 2010. that might be statistically incorrect but from their POV it makes sense.. why focus on something that you cant affect?
- Just because you work in the games industry doesn't mean that you spend time looking at sales charts. If you're a graphical artist, the number of games sold dosent really affect how you do you're job. If you're a designer you don't decide if you should make a game for the Wii or the X360. Testers have even less say in what their studio should work on. The people who really need to know and understand these numbers (Top part of producers and studio heads, publishers and financiers) make out a very small part of those 9xxx members. So in a sense, yes, by being a System War poster you might well be better qualified to comment on such a list than most of the members on the site.

A survey ignoring nintendo at all is exactly what the op is talking about.

- The survey might have asked about non-portable consoles. If so the article should have stated that, and it would be a silly stipulation to make in the first place. but with the actual survey it's hard to say how things look, what questions are asked and so on.Mazoch

Ok, No Pokemon. Fair enough

- I believe Gamebiz is a western site and most of the members are likely westerners. From a 'professional' point of view, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of western games that do well on the Wii or DS (Feel free to correct me, that just an impression). But if western developers traditionally do badly on those platforms they are less likely to take them into consideration when guessing what will be the 'big titles' in 2010. that might be statistically incorrect but from their POV it makes sense.. why focus on something that you cant affect?Mazoch

Then why FFXIII is on the list?

- Just because you work in the games industry doesn't mean that you spend time looking at sales charts. If you're a graphical artist, the number of games sold dosent really affect how you do you're job. If you're a designer you don't decide if you should make a game for the Wii or the X360. Testers have even less say in what their studio should work on. The people who really need to know and understand these numbers (Top part of producers and studio heads, publishers and financiers) make out a very small part of those 9xxx members. So in a sense, yes, by being a System War poster you might well be better qualified to comment on such a list than most of the members on the site.Mazoch

Yet, we got attacked on the original reply i quoted.

9000 industry professionals. The article says it. But since they are industry insiders they must be right and can't be questioned, right?

loco145

[QUOTE="loco145"]

Explain their "best selling" list when 2009 looks like this:

They must be right, Nintendo will suddenly die in 2010, like it should in 2006, 2007, etc...

Teufelhuhn