The hiding behind the PC myth.........

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Heil68"] Yet no one talks about the exclusives the PC has lost, which is far more than the consoles.Heil68

How bout sticking to the subject at hand instead of vearing off calling the person a name.. As it stands he is correct... The Pc has the most highquality exclusives out there.. And the reason why he said we excluding you, because if you were really into PC games you would realize this.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]most of the comparisons between the 360 and ps3 are done to compare exclusives. this is done because if you want to play these games, you have to buy that particular system. if multiplats are listed, you can play the games without having to buy that particular system.akuma303x

and if you already own another system that can play those multiplats?

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="akuma303x"]when comparing what each system offers as a whole for a gamer, you must include all expiriences possible on that platform including multiplats. ( especially when you cannot play them on a competitors system) MS does not see the PC as competition. Why does everyone else see it that way, I dont know. But it does not matter. IF you buy a 360, you can play gears of war. So when you compare list , Gears should be included. I just dont get how a system can have a game that doesnt count twords it's offerings.Heil68

considering that these exlusives are always much better on the pc and there are still so many high quality exclusives available for the pc, peope prefer talking more abut 360 where the of the few quality exclusives they have, almost all come over to the pc

Oh, God, not this discussion again. The problem you are going to find with this argument is that the percentage of gamers who own a console AND a gaming PC in this forum are far higher than the average gamer. Why? Because most of us in these forums aren't your average gamer - we are more hardcore, manticore, etc. We are a small percentage compared to the masses out there. I'm not just talking about casual gamers, just not the hardcore gamers like us. Most people I know have one system (PC, 360, etc) and play games exclusively on that system. Thus, the TC's argument holds.

The bulk of the people who own a PS3 don't have a gaming PC. The bulk of the people who own a 360 don't have a gaming PC. Thus, using the "well, you can play it on the PC" statement, when comparing PS3-to-360 games 1-to-1, doesn't apply in most cases.

REVENGEotSITH

I have a gaming PC (8800GTX, E6600 etc.), a 360, and a PS3

LOL but the PC is an open platform, M$ make a lot of losses if people play the game on PC and not 360, so will the Lemmings stop pretending that it isn't a big deal if it goes to PC, as it is, it's a loss for M$ and it means us Cows can still play it without buying a 360. So it doesn't matter whether it's on the 360 or not, in the end.ShmenonPie

[QUOTE="Heil68"] You use the "we" like I dont have a PC capable of gaming? How ignorant.Vandalvideo

lol, and the 360 pool has the danger of being totally empty if 2-3 fat guys jump at the same time

Thats nice.

Remember, some of us actually are PC gamers. Not everyone mentioning the PC is just a Cow. I dont care if its not on the PS3. I still get to play it without buying a 360.

EDIT: and your "MS still gets the money" argument is void. MS still makes money when Sony games sell, indirectly, just like MS gets money indirectly for PC games as you claim.

XaosII

Wait what? MS doesn't make money off PC games unless they published/developed it somehow. PC developers don't have to pay royalties to MS. Most PC games sell without MS seeing a single penny for them.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

they're not acting like it's unplayable.

akuma303x

because if they really don't like the 360, there's an alternative.

[QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"]

Oh, God, not this discussion again. The problem you are going to find with this argument is that the percentage of gamers who own a console AND a gaming PC in this forum are far higher than the average gamer. Why? Because most of us in these forums aren't your average gamer - we are more hardcore, manticore, etc. We are a small percentage compared to the masses out there. I'm not just talking about casual gamers, just not the hardcore gamers like us. Most people I know have one system (PC, 360, etc) and play games exclusively on that system. Thus, the TC's argument holds.

The bulk of the people who own a PS3 don't have a gaming PC. The bulk of the people who own a 360 don't have a gaming PC. Thus, using the "well, you can play it on the PC" statement, when comparing PS3-to-360 games 1-to-1, doesn't apply in most cases.

akuma303x

Yeah, this is typical here in System Wars - the fanboys come out in groves and think that EVERYONE is just like them. Well, news flash - the demographics here in System Wars are a little skewed from reality. Not everyone plays games as much as we do. Not everyone owns every system known to man. Not everyone has a gaming PC. Thus, I grow tired of seeing Cows say "well, its on the PC, so that hurts the 360." Well, the last time I checked, Oblivion sold 1.94 million copies and it didn't seem to hurt it that it was also on the PC. Why would all of those people have bought it for the 360 if they could have bought the "superior" version on the PC??? Why??? Because the bulk of people who own a 360 don't have a gaming PC. I don't. And I'd venture to say that the same holds for people who own a PS3.

[QUOTE="akuma303x"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]most of the comparisons between the 360 and ps3 are done to compare exclusives. this is done because if you want to play these games, you have to buy that particular system. if multiplats are listed, you can play the games without having to buy that particular system.CaseyWegner

and if you already own another system that can play those multiplats?

most big games go to pc from 360 so it gives u less reason to own a 360 if u have a good pcdeadmeat59

Not if you have to wait over a year to play the game and don't have a PC powerful enough to play said game. These games that are coming on the 360 first are outselling the PC version by 5 to 1 or more. Why do you think developers are making these games on the XBox 360 first? The PC is an afterthought for most of the top 15 developers in the industry. The reason the PC get more exclusive titles is because there are literally thousand of small team developers specifically making games for the PC and don't have the fund to purchase a PS3 or XBox 360 Dev Kit. So obviously the PC is going to have more exclusives. They have more exclusive developers who will never make a game on the XBox 360 or PS3. PC and game console markets aren't anywhere near being the same. The real difference is the console gaming market is much more profitable.

[QUOTE="akuma303x"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

they're not acting like it's unplayable.

CaseyWegner

because if they really don't like the 360, there's an alternative.

Well, the last time I checked, Oblivion sold 1.94 million copies and it didn't seem to hurt it that it was also on the PC. Why would all of those people have bought it for the 360 if they could have bought the "superior" version on the PC??? Why??? Because the bulk of people who own a 360 don't have a gaming PC. I don't. And I'd venture to say that the same holds for people who own a PS3.REVENGEotSITH

[QUOTE="Derek240"]

[QUOTE="akuma303x"]I just say it like this, if it's on the 360 and PC but not PS3, guess what....... It's still on the 360 and not the PS3. Im tired of cows just saying it;s on PC and looking past it as if 360 fans cant play it. Most PC gamers are not console gamers. Vice Versa. MS still gets the money. The games devision still gets the profit. But all COWS are affraid of GEARS OF WAR , and BIOSHOCK. You know you wont beat them anytime soon. So all of you just hide behind the "It's on PC too" saying. Stop running scared. If I have a 360 and can PLAY the game on my 360 and you cant on your PS3, You should have to beat it with a game on the PS3. All the great talk from cows about UT3 is proof. And that is on the 360 as well. ALL IM SAYING IS STOP HIDING.akuma303x

Prove the bolded statement because i'm a pc and console gamer and i'm sure i'm not one of the only ones on earth.

So your arguing about ownage rights?? Again, you have no clue what people on this forum have set up wise, so to say that most "cows" dont have a PC that can run GEOW and Bioshock is a bold statement to make. Again, if a person can play these games and not own a 360, then why should it count, because you want it to.

The truth is arguing about games may be fun to some but is ultimatly pointless. Everyone has different tastes which is why games get different ratings from different sites and games like Okami and NG can get praise but not sell up to their potential. You know there are people in the world that truly have no desire to play those games, did you think of that.

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]PC is an open platform: that's why the games are significantly cheaper than console games. akuma303x

Good, you've just disproved your original point. Self-owned.

I think what the TC is trying to get at, which I have argued countless times, is the fact that you have PS3 owners arguing about games with the 360. Than the PS3 owner basically states that whatever comes to the 360 goes to the PC so basically that makes the 360 a pointless, wasted, investment. Not only that PS3 fans like to discount the games all together that go to pc that are on 360 because you can getthemon the pc. Well if thats the case the UT3 will be an absolute waste of time and money on the PS3 because you can get it on the pc. So we can discount that game all together. Not only that I will argue until I am blue in the face or possibly dead, that a console is not a pc, there for whatever goes to the 360 for games and is not on the PS3 it is a CONSOLE exclusive. Now I'm notstating that PC is not a gaming platform because it very much is. But the PC is called a pc for a reason, and the console is called a console for a certain reason. Now you have a discussion of 360 v.s. PS3 you should be able to use bioshock and gears of war against the PS3 because those games are not on the Wii nor the PS3, and call it a "CONSOLE EXCLUSIVE".xscrapzx

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="akuma303x"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]most of the comparisons between the 360 and ps3 are done to compare exclusives. this is done because if you want to play these games, you have to buy that particular system. if multiplats are listed, you can play the games without having to buy that particular system.akuma303x

and if you already own another system that can play those multiplats?

why would you consider games that you can already play when you're deciding to get a new system?

because if they really don't like the 360, there's an alternative.CaseyWegner

You are right but that still doesn't discount the FACT that you can get certain games on the 360 that you can't on the PS3. So when you are in a discussion of PS3 v.s. 360 you can say well you can't play gears on PS3 so that is a plus for 360. You can't act like its not exsistant on the 360.

[QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"]Well, the last time I checked, Oblivion sold 1.94 million copies and it didn't seem to hurt it that it was also on the PC. Why would all of those people have bought it for the 360 if they could have bought the "superior" version on the PC??? Why??? Because the bulk of people who own a 360 don't have a gaming PC. I don't. And I'd venture to say that the same holds for people who own a PS3.Vandalvideo

This is true. Undefineable, but true. However, when a game sells almost 2 million copies, I don't go as far as say anything "hurt" its sales...

it can be done right if the point is to show that those games can be played without needinga 360.CaseyWegner

The problem with your theory is that there are games on the 360 that will never be on the PC. So gamers still will need to buy a XBox 360. Hermits make it seem that every XBox 360 game will be on the PC. Nope, not even close. The only 360 games even going to the PC from the 360 are FPS. I have yet to see a racing, 3D platform, Fighting or Air Combat game more from the 360 to the PC. Many of the FPS shooters going to the PC are being released 6-12 months after they've been on the Xbox 360.

[QUOTE="akuma303x"][QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]PC is an open platform: that's why the games are significantly cheaper than console games. TrueReligion_

Good, you've just disproved your original point. Self-owned.

I say stop hiding IN your computer...

Alright, my first post on this forum. I'm going to try and get the opinions in my head to come out somewhat coherently in this post. If as stated this System Wars is a forum for PS3 vs. Xbox 360 vs. Wii vs. PC vs...... then then we need to draw clear and defined lines.

You can't use the argument that my PS3 is better than your Xbox 360 because I also own a gaming PC. That makes no sense.... PS3 + PC > Xbox 360. All you would need to say is my gaming PC is better than your Xbox 360. I think this is the point lemmings try to make: The use of System A to justify why System B is better than System C is stupid. Time after time I basically see the same arguments that certain combinations of systems provide more entertainment than ONE other system, OF COURSE THEY DO!!! Is the 360 inferior to the PC, or the PS3, or the Wii.....it's personal preference nothing is going to ever be written in stone to prove you right or wrong in your beliefs.

I guess my point in the exclusive argument is that fully multi-plat games affect nobody more than the other, but games that are multi-plat while excluding a major competitor do offer advantages to the systems they are appearing on. Does the 360 lose sales to the PC? Sure. Do PC Hardware (CPU's, GPU's that some people would need) salestake a hit due toa game being on 360? Absolutely. Is there a way to determine which side takes the bigger hit? Nope, so stop arguing about it.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

because if they really don't like the 360, there's an alternative.xscrapzx

You are right but that still doesn't discount the FACT that you can get certain games on the 360 that you can't on the PS3. So when you are in a discussion of PS3 v.s. 360 you can say well you can't play gears on PS3 so that is a plus for 360. You can't act like its not exsistant on the 360.

He is not saying that they dont exist on the 360, what he is sayingis that if Bioshock is the game that appeals most to you on the 360 and it comes out on the PC at the same time and you like most people have a PC and a decent one to play this game that is one less reason to buy that console. A multiplat is a multiplat. You cant act like the 360 is the only route to take to enjoy this game and thats why these games being touted as "console exclusive" is crap.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"]Well, the last time I checked, Oblivion sold 1.94 million copies and it didn't seem to hurt it that it was also on the PC. Why would all of those people have bought it for the 360 if they could have bought the "superior" version on the PC??? Why??? Because the bulk of people who own a 360 don't have a gaming PC. I don't. And I'd venture to say that the same holds for people who own a PS3.REVENGEotSITH

This is true. Undefineable, but true. However, when a game sells almost 2 million copies, I don't go as far as say anything "hurt" its sales...

Not the games sales, the consoles sales.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]I think what the TC is trying to get at, which I have argued countless times, is the fact that you have PS3 owners arguing about games with the 360. Than the PS3 owner basically states that whatever comes to the 360 goes to the PC so basically that makes the 360 a pointless, wasted, investment. Not only that PS3 fans like to discount the games all together that go to pc that are on 360 because you can getthemon the pc. Well if thats the case the UT3 will be an absolute waste of time and money on the PS3 because you can get it on the pc. So we can discount that game all together. Not only that I will argue until I am blue in the face or possibly dead, that a console is not a pc, there for whatever goes to the 360 for games and is not on the PS3 it is a CONSOLE exclusive. Now I'm notstating that PC is not a gaming platform because it very much is. But the PC is called a pc for a reason, and the console is called a console for a certain reason. Now you have a discussion of 360 v.s. PS3 you should be able to use bioshock and gears of war against the PS3 because those games are not on the Wii nor the PS3, and call it a "CONSOLE EXCLUSIVE".akuma303x

I'm not discounting PC as a gaming platform, my problem is that PC is not a console. So when you are comparing consoles(PS3, Wii, 360) those games such as gears, such as bioshock can ONLY be play on the 360 as far as CONSOLES are concerned. If i was comparing all gaming platforms, then 360 does not have those games held exclusive to them. I just think that hiding behind the pc is NOT ok when you are comparing consoles. If you are comparing all platforms then yes you can use the pc.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]it can be done right if the point is to show that those games can be played without needinga 360.blackace

The problem with your theory is that there are games on the 360 that will never be on the PC. So gamers still will need to buy a XBox 360. Hermits make it seem that every XBox 360 game will be on the PC. Nope, not even close. The only 360 games even going to the PC from the 360 are FPS. I have yet to see a racing, 3D platform, Fighting or Air Combat game more from the 360 to the PC. Many of the FPS shooters going to the PC are being released 6-12 months after they've been on the Xbox 360.

there's no problem with my theory at all. when you're looking at a list of the 360 games, you can still decide if the exclusives are enough to make you want it.

I'm not discounting PC as a gaming platform, my problem is that PC is not a console. So when you are comparing consoles(PS3, Wii, 360) those games such as gears, such as bioshock can ONLY be play on the 360 as far as CONSOLES are concerned. If i was comparing all gaming platforms, then 360 does not have those games held exclusive to them. I just think that hiding behind the pc is NOT ok when you are comparing consoles. If you are comparing all platforms then yes you can use the pc.xscrapzx

pc is the real gaming platform consoles are for little kids

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]it can be done right if the point is to show that those games can be played without needinga 360.blackace

The problem with your theory is that there are games on the 360 that will never be on the PC. So gamers still will need to buy a XBox 360. Hermits make it seem that every XBox 360 game will be on the PC. Nope, not even close. The only 360 games even going to the PC from the 360 are FPS. I have yet to see a racing, 3D platform, Fighting or Air Combat game more from the 360 to the PC. Many of the FPS shooters going to the PC are being released 6-12 months after they've been on the Xbox 360.

The point is if even some of the 360s top games are going to the PC, gamers dont need a 360. And if they want racing, 3d platforming, fighting and air combat games you dont HAVE to go to the 360 to get them. The PS3 has many solid games for all of those genres and the Wii covers some of those genres as well. Its all about preference.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

because if they really don't like the 360, there's an alternative.Javy03

You are right but that still doesn't discount the FACT that you can get certain games on the 360 that you can't on the PS3. So when you are in a discussion of PS3 v.s. 360 you can say well you can't play gears on PS3 so that is a plus for 360. You can't act like its not exsistant on the 360.

He is not saying that they dont exist on the 360, what he is sayingis that if Bioshock is the game that appeals most to you on the 360 and it comes out on the PC at the same time and you like most people have a PC and a decent one to play this game that is one less reason to buy that console. A multiplat is a multiplat. You cant act like the 360 is the only route to take to enjoy this game and thats why these games being touted as "console exclusive" is crap.

CONSOLE EXCLUSIVE is not crap is a fact of life. Consoles are not PCs, there for when you are comparing CONSOLES, and interested in getting a console NOT A PC. You compare games that you can get on CONSOLES. Gears of War can be played on how many CONSOLES??? One, which is? The 360. I end my case, CONSOLE EXCLUSIVE stand true.

[QUOTE="akuma303x"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

[QUOTE="akuma303x"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]most of the comparisons between the 360 and ps3 are done to compare exclusives. this is done because if you want to play these games, you have to buy that particular system. if multiplats are listed, you can play the games without having to buy that particular system.CaseyWegner

and if you already own another system that can play those multiplats?

why would you consider games that you can already play when you're deciding to get a new system?

[QUOTE="blackace"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]it can be done right if the point is to show that those games can be played without needinga 360.CaseyWegner

The problem with your theory is that there are games on the 360 that will never be on the PC. So gamers still will need to buy a XBox 360. Hermits make it seem that every XBox 360 game will be on the PC. Nope, not even close. The only 360 games even going to the PC from the 360 are FPS. I have yet to see a racing, 3D platform, Fighting or Air Combat game more from the 360 to the PC. Many of the FPS shooters going to the PC are being released 6-12 months after they've been on the Xbox 360.

there's no problem with my theory at all. when you're looking at a list of the 360 games, you can still decide if the exclusives are enough to make you want it.

And he seems not to realize that his entire argument on exclusives solely for the Xbox360 can be reversed TEN FOLD for exclusives on the PC..

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

Thats nice.

Remember, some of us actually are PC gamers. Not everyone mentioning the PC is just a Cow. I dont care if its not on the PS3. I still get to play it without buying a 360.

EDIT: and your "MS still gets the money" argument is void. MS still makes money when Sony games sell, indirectly, just like MS gets money indirectly for PC games as you claim.

Bgrngod

Wait what? MS doesn't make money off PC games unless they published/developed it somehow. PC developers don't have to pay royalties to MS. Most PC games sell without MS seeing a single penny for them.

Right.

The argument goes that you bought an MS OS to play those games so MS makes money indirectly. Aside from the fact that 100% of people here own a PC (almost all of them with an MS OS already), Sony games that sell are just as much of a neglible factor to contributing to MS profits. The developers that make the game certainly arent making them on a Mac. Sales/Profits of any games contribute to growth of Sony and the developers. THey will be using MS OS too.

pc is the real gaming platform consoles are for little kids

FIghterFX

Hmmm... Maybe some of us got sick and tired of having to read the side of the game box to see if we could even play the freakin' game. Ever think about that???

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"]Well, the last time I checked, Oblivion sold 1.94 million copies and it didn't seem to hurt it that it was also on the PC. Why would all of those people have bought it for the 360 if they could have bought the "superior" version on the PC??? Why??? Because the bulk of people who own a 360 don't have a gaming PC. I don't. And I'd venture to say that the same holds for people who own a PS3.REVENGEotSITH

This is true. Undefineable, but true. However, when a game sells almost 2 million copies, I don't go as far as say anything "hurt" its sales...

it sold a total of 3 million and that is pc and 360 combined. do you have a link wher you can show how much the 360 version alone sold

Bioshock may as well be exclusive to 360 as it's out of reach for many PC gamers. PC gaming is all about cutting edge now, it shuns the majority in favour of the few, add in rampant piracy andit's in deep trouble.NickyJo

Bioshocks requirements are not high at all....and if its in deep trouble....the 360 is long dead.....since it has far less AAE+ then the PC....

lemmings need to stop hiding behind the pc. can't your system stand on what seperates it from the rest of the competition?CaseyWegner

Last time I checked, I thought it was the COWS who were hiding behind the PC and not the Lemmings...

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]I'm not discounting PC as a gaming platform, my problem is that PC is not a console. So when you are comparing consoles(PS3, Wii, 360) those games such as gears, such as bioshock can ONLY be play on the 360 as far as CONSOLES are concerned. If i was comparing all gaming platforms, then 360 does not have those games held exclusive to them. I just think that hiding behind the pc is NOT ok when you are comparing consoles. If you are comparing all platforms then yes you can use the pc.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="FIghterFX"]

pc is the real gaming platform consoles are for little kids

REVENGEotSITH

Hmmm... Maybe some of us got sick and tired of having to read the side of the game box to see if we could even play the freakin' game. Ever think about that???

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]

[QUOTE="akuma303x"][QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]PC is an open platform: that's why the games are significantly cheaper than console games. akuma303x

Good, you've just disproved your original point. Self-owned.

Nice try. You said Microsoft makes a profit off PC games.

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

because if they really don't like the 360, there's an alternative.xscrapzx

You are right but that still doesn't discount the FACT that you can get certain games on the 360 that you can't on the PS3. So when you are in a discussion of PS3 v.s. 360 you can say well you can't play gears on PS3 so that is a plus for 360. You can't act like its not exsistant on the 360.

He is not saying that they dont exist on the 360, what he is sayingis that if Bioshock is the game that appeals most to you on the 360 and it comes out on the PC at the same time and you like most people have a PC and a decent one to play this game that is one less reason to buy that console. A multiplat is a multiplat. You cant act like the 360 is the only route to take to enjoy this game and thats why these games being touted as "console exclusive" is crap.

CONSOLE EXCLUSIVE is not crap is a fact of life. Consoles are not PCs, there for when you are comparing CONSOLES, and interested in getting a console NOT A PC. You compare games that you can get on CONSOLES. Gears of War can be played on how many CONSOLES??? One, which is? The 360. I end my case, CONSOLE EXCLUSIVE stand true.

LOL..people get consoles for what purpose, to play GAMES. So if a person has an electronic that can play the game they want and they dont have to dump 400 dollars down on a console then why would they. Gamers dont care about the word console or PC as much as they care about the word GAME. They will get any device that can play games and if they want a game and they have the device to play it, it doesnt make sense to buy a second device to play a game they can currently already play. What would presway a person to get a new device are exclusive games and features.

[QUOTE="REVENGEotSITH"]

This is true. Undefineable, but true. However, when a game sells almost 2 million copies, I don't go as far as say anything "hurt" its sales...

naval

it sold a total of 3 million and that is pc and 360 combined. do you have a link wher you can show how much the 360 version alone sold

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=636

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]I'm not discounting PC as a gaming platform, my problem is that PC is not a console. So when you are comparing consoles(PS3, Wii, 360) those games such as gears, such as bioshock can ONLY be play on the 360 as far as CONSOLES are concerned. If i was comparing all gaming platforms, then 360 does not have those games held exclusive to them. I just think that hiding behind the pc is NOT ok when you are comparing consoles. If you are comparing all platforms then yes you can use the pc.Vandalvideo