The Metagame of System Wars

best thread ever! /thread

lol

best thread ever! /thread

lol

Star67

Yeah, we have so many runners for 2007-TOTY.(Thread of The Year)

Wow, I like this post. I told you Subrosian was one of the best posters/debaters here. I must admit, I never post illogical stuff..I can be fanboyish but I do realize other Systems for what they are great at.Pro_wrestler

Want a cookie?

:P

[QUOTE="Star67"]

best thread ever! /thread

lol

Pro_wrestler

Yeah, we have so many runners for 2007-TOTY.(Thread of The Year)

at the end of the year we need to make a thread to vote for our favorite thread. Then we can crown the true TOTY!(I also like the funny pictures thread)

Interesting analogy, much kudos to you for sharing it.

In the case of fanboys/mobbing/personal attacks, I personally attribute the mentality to a fundamental instinctive behaviour. In a nutshell, humans were originally tribal creatures, and though it isn't as apparent today, you can still see a LOT of it around if you're willing to draw the parallels. We get instinctive satisfaction from achieving a higher 'rank' in a social 'hierarchy', regardless of whether that hierarchy is clearcut or subconscious.

Insulting/attacking another person makes one feel superior and gives satisfaction, as you're artificially placing yourself above that person in the hierarchy. You see a lot of the hierarchy mentality in schoolyards with bullies and clubs/cliques/'popular' groups etc. As an example, don't you feel good about yourself for being 'better' than people like the posters who go down in legend with comments like "Who/what the hell are the Zerg?". Not levelling that last bit as a criticism at anyone, it's just natural.

Fanboyism is a bit of an extreme case of this, as a person tries to take themself to a much higher 'rank' by completely denying the opinions and beliefs of anybody who feels differently about gaming/consoles/companies. It can often backfire though, as some fanboys get pretty agitated when others effectively debunk their one-sided arguments, making their rank seem less 'secure' and killing the satisfaction they try and achieve.

This also plays a part in fakeboyism/trolling, as by making others over-react, you feel good by playing with people's opinions and emotions, it gives a sense of superiority that you can make people act in a certain way by using yourself as flamebait. It's a form of manipulation, and it makes one feel more intelligent by 'outwitting' others.

I must admit my beliefs don't really fit in with the meta-gaming argument from what I can see, but I just thought I might try and contribute a tidbit to an interesting, original thread.

Oh, and for playing in character, you must be getting a decent EXP boost, you lucky sod. You're gonna out-level me at this rate :(

Jagazaar

I read it all. That was an excellent post and very informative. Millions of thumbs up!

The only problem I see is with the "probing" issue. Probing is a GREAT way to show someone they're bias. In hopes that they will see it and then change their viewpoint. At very least, it shows all the other posters the true colors of the person in question. Once that is discovered, you can avoid future posts by the individual in question. Personally, I hope the practice of probing continues.

As far as it being deceitful, only an idiot, or kid, would not be able to see that they are being probed for more info in order to show their fanboy/fakeboyness.

I don't know if I should answer as myself or my forum character sonicare. :Psonicare

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"]Wow, I like this post. I told you Subrosian was one of the best posters/debaters here. I must admit, I never post illogical stuff..I can be fanboyish but I do realize other Systems for what they are great at.Jandurin

Want a cookie?

:P

Uhm yeah actually..make sure its chocolate chip or the kind with the M&Ms.

The only problem I see is with the "probing" issue. Probing is a GREAT way to show someone they're bias. In hopes that they will see it and then change their viewpoint. At very least, it shows all the other posters the true colors of the person in question. Once that is discovered, you can avoid future posts by the individual in question. Personally, I hope the practice of probing continues.

As far as it being deceitful, only an idiot, or kid, would not be able to see that they are being probed for more info in order to show their fanboy/fakeboyness.

DeerhunterIA

Another problem I see arising with probing is that someone may have thought of an excellent argument, however someone using probing can keep pushing until the poster "stumbles" by saying something that doesn't mesh with their inital argument. In many cases, probing is relying on, as you've said "revealing true colors", implying that a post is invalidated simply because it came from a fanboy.

I don't agree with the underlying assumption that unpopular posters, or even fanboys are incapable of meaningful discussion, and by stigmatizing them based entirely on past posting, we don't give them an opportunity to redeem themselves. If they are a fakeboy, or a fanboy, this will become apparent from their arguments alone - there's simply no need to use probing as a side route to a personal attack.

Asking questions is always okay though, and it rightly gives the poster an opportunity to clarify their point.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"]Wow, I like this post. I told you Subrosian was one of the best posters/debaters here. I must admit, I never post illogical stuff..I can be fanboyish but I do realize other Systems for what they are great at.Pro_wrestler

Want a cookie?

:P

Uhm yeah actually..make sure its chocolate chip or the kind with the M&Ms.

Teh graphics :shock:

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"]Wow, I like this post. I told you Subrosian was one of the best posters/debaters here. I must admit, I never post illogical stuff..I can be fanboyish but I do realize other Systems for what they are great at.Jandurin

Want a cookie?

:P

Uhm yeah actually..make sure its chocolate chip or the kind with the M&Ms.

Teh graphics :shock:

EYE CANDY! :)

There was this one thread created by AfterShocker(Or AfterShafter, I can't exactly remember his name. He to is a great poster) But it went on about how certain words induce a certain thought associated with a System. For instance, when someone mentions "3-rings" you automatically think of X360; When you talk about "$600" you think of PS3.

The fact that PS3 is not the only thing that cost "$600" doesn't matter, you always refer to PS3 when '$600' is mentioned. I find that interesting, rarely thought but obvious once you do think about it, how we insinuate certain words and how we already know the contents of a thread just by reading the title.

If your judging purely on the title, this type of thinking can cause you to label the TC as a fanboy. But he may or may not be a fanboy at all when you take into account the contents of his thread.

The whole perception thing plays a part in it to, people think because you defend a certain something you are a fanboy of it. Totaly not true, thats why I created my "I am not a fanboy" blog.:P

I would say that one of the main reasons people use these metagame tactics and whatnot is becuase there is no such thing as a progression here in system wars. It doesn't matter how well thought out and correct your posts are because the next day they will be buried8 pages back and the same arguments will pop up all over again. GunSmith1_basic

I'm not even certain that multiple threads about the same thing are the end of the world though, as the argument tends to go in differet directions when repeated at different times, which an be interesting. A browser that supports tabbed browsing, such as Opera or Firefox is an extremely useful tool for system wars - you can keep threads you're tracking open, so that whenever you get around to checking, everything is ready for you to read and respond - no searching through pages of other threads.

I like to keep a positive outlook on the future of System Wars, it's not a doomed, static forum, if you compare it to 2004 / 2005, it is a much different place.

[QUOTE="IbukiNinja"]I like how you made the term "fanboy" seem so negative. Back in the 80's fanboys were a good thing. Ford fanboy, Chevy fanboy, Levis fanboy, Converse fanboy, you were proud to be called a fanboy back then. Now, It's like you're a digusting indiviual for strongly supporting a brand. I guess times are changing...Jandurin

Blindly you say? You mean not seeing what the other competition has or not wanting what the other competition has?

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="IbukiNinja"]I like how you made the term "fanboy" seem so negative. Back in the 80's fanboys were a good thing. Ford fanboy, Chevy fanboy, Levis fanboy, Converse fanboy, you were proud to be called a fanboy back then. Now, It's like you're a digusting indiviual for strongly supporting a brand. I guess times are changing...IbukiNinja

Blindly you say? You mean not seeing what the other competition has or not wanting what the other competition has?

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]I would say that one of the main reasons people use these metagame tactics and whatnot is becuase there is no such thing as a progression here in system wars. It doesn't matter how well thought out and correct your posts are because the next day they will be buried8 pages back and the same arguments will pop up all over again. subrosian

I'm not even certain that multiple threads about the same thing are the end of the world though, as the argument tends to go in differet directions when repeated at different times, which an be interesting. A browser that supports tabbed browsing, such as Opera or Firefox is an extremely useful tool for system wars - you can keep threads you're tracking open, so that whenever you get around to checking, everything is ready for you to read and respond - no searching through pages of other threads.

I like to keep a positive outlook on the future of System Wars, it's not a doomed, static forum, if you compare it to 2004 / 2005, it is a much different place.

[QUOTE="IbukiNinja"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="IbukiNinja"]I like how you made the term "fanboy" seem so negative. Back in the 80's fanboys were a good thing. Ford fanboy, Chevy fanboy, Levis fanboy, Converse fanboy, you were proud to be called a fanboy back then. Now, It's like you're a digusting indiviual for strongly supporting a brand. I guess times are changing...Jandurin

Blindly you say? You mean not seeing what the other competition has or not wanting what the other competition has?

You don't know what a fanboy really is then. I guess it took up a new meaning, so I wouldn't blame you for not knowing. My brother, dad, and grandfather are all Ford fanboys. Do they complain about Ford? all the freaking time. Do they like what chevy has beocme? Yes,My dadwas even thinking about getting one until my Brother talked him out of it. You putting irrational judgement with the word "fanboy". As I said before, the meaning has totally change.

You don't know what a fanboy really is then. I guess it took up a new meaning, so I wouldn't blame you for not knowing. My brother, dad, and grandfather are all Ford fanboys. Do they complain about Ford? all the freaking time. Do they like what chevy has beocme? Yes,My dadwas even thinking about getting one until my Brother talked him out of it. You putting irrational judgement with the word "fanboy". As I said before, the meaning has totally change.IbukiNinja

[QUOTE="IbukiNinja"]You don't know what a fanboy really is then. I guess it took up a new meaning, so I wouldn't blame you for not knowing. My brother, dad, and grandfather are all Ford fanboys. Do they complain about Ford? all the freaking time. Do they like what chevy has beocme? Yes,My dadwas even thinking about getting one until my Brother talked him out of it. You putting irrational judgement with the word "fanboy". As I said before, the meaning has totally change.Jandurin

Well, brand loyalty is not a bad thing. I guess you feel the need to have "what is best for you". Don't let the Wal-mart, Microsoft, and AT&T shenanigansgo unnoticed when that mentality is abused. I don't care if Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft wins. What I do care about is them having enough customer to keep all three on each other heals. If every one thought like you, we all be eating at 1 restaurant, 1 gas station, 1 city,etc...

If every one thought like you, we all be eating at 1 restaurant, 1 gas station, 1 city,etc...IbukiNinja

Brand loyalty leads to the reality you've envisioned.

My brain hurts. And I don't get the problem with "trapping", if you know what you're talking about you wouldn't fall into the trap. If you get trapped its your fault.

My brain hurts. And I don't get the problem with "trapping", if you know what you're talking about you wouldn't fall into the trap. If you get trapped its your fault.

PBSnipes

[QUOTE="IbukiNinja"] If every one thought like you, we all be eating at 1 restaurant, 1 gas station, 1 city,etc...Jandurin

Brand loyalty leads to the reality you've envisioned.

I understand every thing except what GUFUs are.

I understand every thing except what GUFUs are.

nw030

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/home.php?union_id=GSUFU

Stupid Glitchspot. My sig actually answers your question as well. :P

[QUOTE="nw030"]

I understand every thing except what GUFUs are.

Jandurin

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/home.php?union_id=GSUFU

Stupid Glitchspot. My sig actually answers your question as well. :P

thanks

The proper response to the original post is this: Wall of text FTL KTHXBYE. No one used this so deduct 10 points from your total meta-game score.JiveT

Does using leet speak get me moar points?

[QUOTE="JiveT"]The proper response to the original post is this: Wall of text FTL KTHXBYE. No one used this so deduct 10 points from your total meta-game score.Jandurin

Does using leet speak get me moar points?

YEH, N FOR T3H 4X MULTI ON UR SCORE, U NEED TO BADLI SPEL UR SENTANCE N PUT IT IN ALL CAPS!!!!!!!11twentyseven-and-a-quarter!!!!!!

I think I just simultaneously scored a whopping bonus and a genocide on my brain cells :?

Impressive job, subrosian. Props on the sticky.

There's a lot to take from the thread (I need to re-evaluate myself as a DM now, considering how much some of my friends optimize...), but the thing that I think is the most valuable lesson is to not just know how to post, but when to post. If someone is being a fan/fakeboy, or going off topic, or whatever, just ignore them. It not only spares your own sanity, but it discourages the use of those tactics in the future.

I really dont get this thread... is this an explanation of what we already know and see? like when you see someone who got a haircut then say to him "ey buddy did you get a haircut?"

I really dont get this thread... is this an explanation of what we already know and see? like when you see someone who got a haircut then say to him "ey buddy did you get a haircut?"

Tamarind_Face

Well, isn't this a nice surprise after being gone for so long. Nice work.

Well, isn't this a nice surprise after being gone for so long. Nice work.

Tsug_Ze_Wind

Long time no see.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="IbukiNinja"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="IbukiNinja"]I like how you made the term "fanboy" seem so negative. Back in the 80's fanboys were a good thing. Ford fanboy, Chevy fanboy, Levis fanboy, Converse fanboy, you were proud to be called a fanboy back then. Now, It's like you're a digusting indiviual for strongly supporting a brand. I guess times are changing...IbukiNinja

Blindly you say? You mean not seeing what the other competition has or not wanting what the other competition has?

You don't know what a fanboy really is then. I guess it took up a new meaning, so I wouldn't blame you for not knowing. My brother, dad, and grandfather are all Ford fanboys. Do they complain about Ford? all the freaking time. Do they like what chevy has beocme? Yes,My dadwas even thinking about getting one until my Brother talked him out of it. You putting irrational judgement with the word "fanboy". As I said before, the meaning has totally change.

Actually your example of the word "fanboy" being used in the car circle is a stolen meaning - car enthusists stole the term from comic book fans during the early 1980s. "Fanboy" initially started as something *bad* - it was a term used to described the fans of various comic series, usually with images of people who look like "comic book guy" from the Simpsons. The word the migrated into other nerdy venues, especially sci-fi tv show and movie fans, then anime fans, videogame fans, et cetera.

The usage you may have heard of fanboy is with car fanatics, however any positive usage of the word is something exclusive to "car culture". Within gaming culture, fanboys are repeatedly depicted in an extremely negative light. Each system's fanboys have different stereotypes, but the typical image of an overweight middle-aged man dressed in an underdsized Tingle costume, talking about how he wishes he was Japanese because no one understand the genius of Miyamoto that way he does- is a pretty standard "Nintendo fanboy" depiction. Microsoft fans are often depicted as "dumb jocks" who only care about FPS games and madden, et cetera... there is little, if any, praise in gaming culture for fanboys.

[QUOTE="Tsug_Ze_Wind"]

Well, isn't this a nice surprise after being gone for so long. Nice work.

cakeorrdeath

Long time no see.

I was getting the SW itch. (That doesn't sound pleasant). I would have come back sooner, but I misplaced my internet.

Quite a few new stickies, what'll happen when you have to put up a hype thread or two?

[QUOTE="cakeorrdeath"][QUOTE="Tsug_Ze_Wind"]

Well, isn't this a nice surprise after being gone for so long. Nice work.

Tsug_Ze_Wind

Long time no see.

I was getting the SW itch. (That doesn't sound pleasant). I would have come back sooner, but I misplaced my internet.

Quite a few new stickies, what'll happen when you have to put up a hype thread or two?

Took down three stickies yesterday. This is light.

Actually your example of the word "fanboy" being used in the car circle is a stolen meaning - car enthusists stole the term from comic books fans during the early 1980s. "Fanboy" initially started as something *bad* - it was a term used to described the fans of various comic series, usually with images of people who look like "comic book guy" from the Simpsons. The word the migrated into other nerdy venues, especially sci-fi tv show and movie fans, then anime fans, videogame fans, et cetera.

The usage you may have heard of fanboy is with car fanatics, however any positive usage of the word is something exclusive to "car culture".

subrosian

@ Cake: Seriously? :shock:

And having this potential change right before E3 '07 is definitely good timing. Again, very nice job subrosian.