The Online Pass (why hurt the dev team?)

I'm hurting myself? I don't think so. People should not be treated like criminals if they buy used. There's a used market for everything, why are games the exception?

I don't have an opinion but are you saying do nothing?

fadersdream

I'm not sure of what do in this case. If we don't buy the game because of it the dev team/studio will probably shut down. If we do buy it the publisher will continue to add online passes. Either way the publisher is going to stay and we will lose, unless all of these former studio employees pool their money together and create a new publishing company.

lowkey254

I'm not suggesting boycotting, just giving a devils advocate: Wouldn't a loss of sales trigger a change in strategy? Creative =/= advertising and sales profits. seems like the cause would be directly effected.

It could look bad to the owners if a game doesn't perform though, hard to say.

.

I think the only real solution becomes the same solution that has hurt comic books, movies and toys; Spend less, take less chances and only buy the ones that you feel are really worth the money. Of course this leads to more sequels and annual releases which are also bad for the industry.

fadersdream

I'm hurting myself? I don't think so. People should not be treated like criminals if they buy used. There's a used market for everything, why are games the exception?

NeonNinja

I'm off of my soap box now.

People are just cheap and don't understand the cost of making games today. Besides...... Online pass is not the worst it can get for you used game buyers. Just wait 5-10 years from now when most games go Digital ( Yes even console ).

People are just cheap and don't understand the cost of making games today. Besides...... Online pass is not the worst it can get for you used game buyers. Just wait 5-10 years from now when most games go Digital ( Yes even console ).

Vambran

You do have a good point. Video game budgets and mainstream expectations are much higher today than even 10 years ago.

If their sales aren't rising developers need something to make up for a discrepancy in revenue.

If you cut the head of the beast now, the beast won't grow. If you allow the beast to stay alive, the beast will grow, flip you around, and you have no choice but to take it up the, you know.

ShadowDeathX

And in picture form.

I accept on-line passes as a necessary evil and since I normally buy games new it doesn't really affect me directly. Indirectly it is very annoying though as I have 4 kids who often pool their money to buy a game leading to "who gets the on-line pass" etc. An on-line pass should somehow be household specific! Also all games should allow a free trial on-line for people renting titles etc. Part of renting a game is to decide whether or not to buy and part of that decision can be the on-line play!

Whoever says that its hurting gamers is wrong. It's hurting cheap gamers who like to save money by not buying new. Also it hurts places like gamestop, which I don't mind. People should quit crying and buy the games new or on sale

Whoever says that its hurting gamers is wrong. It's hurting cheap gamers who like to save money by not buying new. Also it hurts places like gamestop, which I don't mind. People should quit crying and buy the games new or on sale

Jray0705

Buying used games effects the developers the same way pirating a game does so why does everyone hate pirating? chaoz-king

Because people are selfish and greedy. They don't care about how it affects the developers.

At least buying used games is harder to do than piracy.

Having to spend money to acquire the game dissuades people less from buying games new than being able to freely download the game at whim.

Stupid console peasants actually complaining about having to pay more for less. This is what your cheap asses deserve. All the clowns who don't want to support their favorite games should go to the same place that megaupload guy and PC pirating clowns go. Into the gutter.

You like something then put your damn money behind it. You can games cheaper NEW on places like Amazon for cheaper then you get it used at Gamestop. Gamestop is a glorified Pawn Shop but at the same time I don't blame Gamestop. The stupid devs want their cake and eat it to. Give Gamestop exlclusive rights to DLC and pre order bonuses only to complain about them and used games later.

Online pass is just an excuse for people too cheap to support the creators of the game.

Online pass is just an excuse for people too cheap to support the creators of the game.

Gxgear

If I buy the game "new" a year from now, I still have to pay for the online pass because it expires. What next, single-player passes?

It is a detestable practice that I've wavered on over the past couple years, but have decided to hold my ground against it now. If I miss out on a game because I've stood up for my principles, then so be it.foxhound_fox

I'm hurting myself? I don't think so. People should not be treated like criminals if they buy used. There's a used market for everything, why are games the exception?NeonNinja

I agree. Plus I just love it when all of these so called "gamers" defend corporations on anti-consumer practices like they actually care about them.

I think there are several issues that new game buyers have that are very real:

1. Lending it to their buddies. This is something I do A LOT. I could have a game with amazing multiplayer and I can't let a poorer buddy of mine experience it and determine whether he should buy it to play with me.

2. Selling it. If a game is "meh", not really worth being in a collection, someone might want to sell it. The online pass diminished its value, and its unfair since it takes away someone's right to own a game, and makes them more a licenser of that product.

Plus not all of us buy games brand spanking new day one. Some of us stick to Gamefly before we buy, and an online pass removes a portion of the game we could try. In probably the worst case, WAY down the road you can see an awesome game for $20, you never got to buy it and its summer, so you pick it up, but BOOM: Online pass removes cool stuff from it you gotta spend extra on just because no new copies existed 6 years later.

Its not a big deal for me, but I can see the merit in arguing against it. Its just greedy and unnecessary and its like if movies that were bought didn't show the ending unless you picked it up brand new, which would completely remove movie rentals and just be a dumb and greedy business move.

I hate online passes because they restrict freedom, and ultimately the consumer loses. I pay for two LIVE accounts, my own and my little brothers, and my family has two Xboxes. WIth online passes, either the content is locked to the account or it's locked to the console - either way, someone is losing out on value even though the game has been bought new:

If I register the game to one account, the other account is robbed of features. I bought the game new - I shouldn't have to jump through any hoops to have said game work with any profile I own and pay for.

If I register a game to a single Xbox, then we have a "Singleplayer" Xbox and a "Multiplayer Xbox". If I want to play Halo at the same time my brother is playing CoD (assuming in some world where the both had online passes), I'd be sh*t out of luck.

That's ignoring the fact that most console games don't even ship with a co-op mode, have a short single-player and a derivative multiplayer. So I'm paying more money for that takes little risks and diminished value. Yet publishers have tricked some people into believing that giant corporations are are victim?

Screw that. I'm all for supporting developers, but I'm have to support myself as a consumer first. Any console game that ships with an online pass is getting rented or bought used, without a second thought.

I hate online passes because they restrict freedom, and ultimately the consumer loses. I pay for two LIVE accounts, my own and my little brothers, and my family has two Xboxes. WIth online passes, either the content is locked to the account or it's locked to the console - either way, someone is losing out on value even though the game has been bought new:

If I register the game to one account, the other account is robbed of features. I bought the game new - I shouldn't have to jump through any hoops to have said game work with any profile I own and pay for.

If I register a game to a single Xbox, then we have a "Singleplayer" Xbox and a "Multiplayer Xbox". If I want to play Halo at the same time my brother is playing CoD (assuming in some world where the both had online passes), I'd be sh*t out of luck.

That's ignoring the fact that most console games don't even ship with a co-op mode, have a short single-player and a derivative multiplayer. So I'm paying more money for that takes little risks and diminished value. Yet publishers have tricked some people into believing that giant corporations are are victim?

Screw that. I'm all for supporting developers, but I'm have to support myself as a consumer first. Any console game that ships with an online pass is getting rented or bought used, without a second thought.

Kickinurass

These are very good points. It isn't the consumers responsibility to work out monetary problems. Ultimately an agreement needs to be reached between all the related parties--developer, publisher, and retailer(and whoever else might be involved).

I hate online passes because they restrict freedom, and ultimately the consumer loses. I pay for two LIVE accounts, my own and my little brothers, and my family has two Xboxes. WIth online passes, either the content is locked to the account or it's locked to the console - either way, someone is losing out on value even though the game has been bought new:

If I register the game to one account, the other account is robbed of features. I bought the game new - I shouldn't have to jump through any hoops to have said game work with any profile I own and pay for.

If I register a game to a single Xbox, then we have a "Singleplayer" Xbox and a "Multiplayer Xbox". If I want to play Halo at the same time my brother is playing CoD (assuming in some world where the both had online passes), I'd be sh*t out of luck.

That's ignoring the fact that most console games don't even ship with a co-op mode, have a short single-player and a derivative multiplayer. So I'm paying more money for that takes little risks and diminished value. Yet publishers have tricked some people into believing that giant corporations are are victim?

Screw that. I'm all for supporting developers, but I'm have to support myself as a consumer first. Any console game that ships with an online pass is getting rented or bought used, without a second thought.

I hate online passes because they restrict freedom, and ultimately the consumer loses. I pay for two LIVE accounts, my own and my little brothers, and my family has two Xboxes. WIth online passes, either the content is locked to the account or it's locked to the console - either way, someone is losing out on value even though the game has been bought new:

If I register the game to one account, the other account is robbed of features. I bought the game new - I shouldn't have to jump through any hoops to have said game work with any profile I own and pay for.

If I register a game to a single Xbox, then we have a "Singleplayer" Xbox and a "Multiplayer Xbox". If I want to play Halo at the same time my brother is playing CoD (assuming in some world where the both had online passes), I'd be sh*t out of luck.

That's ignoring the fact that most console games don't even ship with a co-op mode, have a short single-player and a derivative multiplayer. So I'm paying more money for that takes little risks and diminished value. Yet publishers have tricked some people into believing that giant corporations are are victim?

Screw that. I'm all for supporting developers, but I'm have to support myself as a consumer first. Any console game that ships with an online pass is getting rented or bought used, without a second thought.

I love how some of you gamers here are saying that the rest of us who are against online passes are cheap losers who are trying to ripoff the developers and whining and stuff. Let me make it clear that people like me and others who have the same views as me always buy our games brand new and not used but the reason we are against online passes is because the companies are getting really greedy and used game sales are not hurting them as they love to claim.

And it's about having control on the games you own. And we know it's going to get worse later on when more games now has it's singleplayer content locked out like in Rage or parts of Batman Arkham City. It's about principles, not us being greedy. That is why we are against it but you guys only respond as"blah blah blah stop being cheap, you're criminals, you're hurting the companies, you need to support them because they don't make any money because they say so" I mean come on. And what if you want to lend a game to your friend? Actually know why we are against it instead of making up weak responses. And I stopped buying games that have online passes and if it hurts the companies then too bad. I buy my games new but I will never support this online pass greed so I skip them.

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

I hate online passes because they restrict freedom, and ultimately the consumer loses. I pay for two LIVE accounts, my own and my little brothers, and my family has two Xboxes. WIth online passes, either the content is locked to the account or it's locked to the console - either way, someone is losing out on value even though the game has been bought new:

If I register the game to one account, the other account is robbed of features. I bought the game new - I shouldn't have to jump through any hoops to have said game work with any profile I own and pay for.

If I register a game to a single Xbox, then we have a "Singleplayer" Xbox and a "Multiplayer Xbox". If I want to play Halo at the same time my brother is playing CoD (assuming in some world where the both had online passes), I'd be sh*t out of luck.

That's ignoring the fact that most console games don't even ship with a co-op mode, have a short single-player and a derivative multiplayer. So I'm paying more money for that takes little risks and diminished value. Yet publishers have tricked some people into believing that giant corporations are are victim?

Screw that. I'm all for supporting developers, but I'm have to support myself as a consumer first. Any console game that ships with an online pass is getting rented or bought used, without a second thought.

Jray0705

Don't say it's a rare case unless you have data to back it up. It may not be the majority, but you have no idea on how often it happens. It could be them sweeping a huge amount of people under the rug for all you know. I'm not cheap. I'll pay for anything that gives me value. Refusing to buy something because the price tag doesn't reflect it's relative value is not always being cheap - in my case it's making smart purchasing decisions.

I don't buy $100 textbooks for every class because that's a waste of money. I go on Chegg or Amazon and look for deals - or I just don't buy the book at all because in most semester classes, we don't even touch the books. Yet on the same token, I've spent $200 on books in the last month, from C++ Reference Manuals, 3ds and Maya materials, and a ton more. Same principle with games - I buy every Halo, Fallout, and Elder Scrolls game new without thinking about it. I know that for $60, I'm getting my money's worth. I don't drop that kind of cash on CoD, sports games, or GeoW because I know I'd be bored within a week. I'm not going to spend my cash on a game like Darksiders new - I'll either wait to it's cheap (either used or on sale) or I'll rent it. It doesn't have the value to justify me wasting a whole $60 on it.

Just because I can afford something doesn't mean I'm going to bend over backwards and let some greedy publishers take anymore money than they are entitled too. If they want $10 extra, they better cram that game with some much content and replay value that I feel the need to mail them a handwritten letter telling them how awesome they are for making my life better with their game. If they can't handle that, then they should take the NASA approach and do more with less.

Developers are people, and true enough they need money. But this isn't a charity. If they want to charge me more for their product, I expect their product to deliver more.

[QUOTE="Gxgear"]

Online pass is just an excuse for people too cheap to support the creators of the game.

PurpleMan5000

This sense of self-entitlement is exactly why online passes were implemented in the first place. Thank you for reaffirming my point.

I accept on-line passes as a necessary evil!

SadPSPAddict

The problem with online passes is that it affects the customer negatively.

That's not how any business should operate.

I buy the AAA games but the terrible games with online passes I refuse to deal with.

the only bad thing about them as far as i am concerned is that the code should work on your xbox or PS3 as a whole and allow other users of that console to access the MP component. what about two brothers who share a console? it should not be prevent other users of that console from doing the same IMO.

sts106mat

I'm hurting myself? I don't think so. People should not be treated like criminals if they buy used. There's a used market for everything, why are games the exception?

NeonNinja

]How are you being "treated like a criminal"? :/

shinrabanshou

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

]How are you being "treated like a criminal"? :/

Miroku32

The actions being taken do nothing to treat one "like a criminal."

Amidst all the hyperbole, indignation and slippery slope arguments these threads always incite is lost that these measures don't prohibit you from buying and selling used games. You may continue to act however you like, it may simply be less lucrative or more expensive than previously.

Online pass is almost as stupid as the XBL fee, they both are rip offs but at least it isn't as bad as XBL, it doesn't completely lock the game out. All this does is trample on consumer rights, and the idiot fanboys that defend this crap are the ones to blame for this. If you defend this or XBL your just stupid, I guess you enjoy being ripped off, sorry but it's the cold hard truth.

I'm also pissed of at Sony for bullying devs to do this, they did it to Naughty Dog and they did it to Santa Monica (Twisted Metal and God of War deves, buy TM btw, the demo's awesome). They refused to do this but Sony forced them to, they don't care about consumer rights very much. But MS is even worse, and the only person we have to blam are the idiots that defend this.

These are the same people that buy over priced map packs and think it's a good deal, hell I remember this one Lem thought the XBL family pack was a great deal because he get's 4 accounts for paying $100 a year, sorry that's just straight up stupid. I can have as many accounts as I want to on PSN for FREE!

Online pass is almost as stupid as the XBL fee, they both are rip offs but at least it isn't as bad as XBL, it doesn't completely lock the game out. All this does is trample on consumer rights, and the idiot fanboys that defend this crap are the ones to blame for this. If you defend this or XBL your just stupid, I guess you enjoy being ripped off, sorry but it's the cold hard truth.

I'm also pissed of at Sony for bullying devs to do this, they did it to Naughty Dog and they did it to Santa Monica (Twisted Metal and God of War deves, buy TM btw, the demo's awesome). They refused to do this but Sony forced them to, they don't care about consumer rights very much. But MS is even worse, and the only person we have to blam are the idiots that defend this.

These are the same people that buy over priced map packs and think it's a good deal, hell I remember this one Lem thought the XBL family pack was a great deal because he get's 4 accounts for paying $100 a year, sorry that's just straight up stupid. I can have as many accounts as I want to on PSN for FREE!

ShadowMoses900

I love how some of you gamers here are saying that the rest of us who are against online passes are cheap losers who are trying to ripoff the developers and whining and stuff. Let me make it clear that people like me and others who have the same views as me always buy our games brand new and not used but the reason we are against online passes is because the companies are getting really greedy and used game sales are not hurting them as they love to claim.

And it's about having control on the games you own. And we know it's going to get worse later on when more games now has it's singleplayer content locked out like in Rage or parts of Batman Arkham City. It's about principles, not us being greedy. That is why we are against it but you guys only respond as"blah blah blah stop being cheap, you're criminals, you're hurting the companies, you need to support them because they don't make any money because they say so" I mean come on. And what if you want to lend a game to your friend? Actually know why we are against it instead of making up weak responses. And I stopped buying games that have online passes and if it hurts the companies then too bad. I buy my games new but I will never support this online pass greed so I skip them.

Warhawk_

Online pass is almost as stupid as the XBL fee, they both are rip offs but at least it isn't as bad as XBL, it doesn't completely lock the game out. All this does is trample on consumer rights, and the idiot fanboys that defend this crap are the ones to blame for this. If you defend this or XBL your just stupid, I guess you enjoy being ripped off, sorry but it's the cold hard truth.

I'm also pissed of at Sony for bullying devs to do this, they did it to Naughty Dog and they did it to Santa Monica (Twisted Metal and God of War deves, buy TM btw, the demo's awesome). They refused to do this but Sony forced them to, they don't care about consumer rights very much. But MS is even worse, and the only person we have to blam are the idiots that defend this.

These are the same people that buy over priced map packs and think it's a good deal, hell I remember this one Lem thought the XBL family pack was a great deal because he get's 4 accounts for paying $100 a year, sorry that's just straight up stupid. I can have as many accounts as I want to on PSN for FREE!

ShadowMoses900

All this does is trample on consumer rights

they don't care about consumer rights very much

ShadowMoses900

An online pass does not prevent the onsale of goods. It does not prevent the purchase of used goods.

Even in the event that whole games become tied to accounts, there isn't any particular consumer right issue. If there was then I'd have expected people to be battering down the doors of Valve offices to string up Gabe Newell by now.

I buy all my games new, always have, always will. I'm OCD about my discs, and I need them to be immaculate. I'm a game collector, and here's why I have a problem with the online pass.

The online passes don't always work. I've bought a few online pass games, and 2 of them didn't work. The pass included inside was expired. The customer service to get something like this resolved is atrocious.

Games like Kingdom of Amular require an online pass for the single player. I don't like that trend, because when I am buying retro games that I can no longer find new or are no longer in production, sometimes I don't want to pay $200 for it on Amazon for a sealed copy. Who's to say what is going to happen if I want to buy a game like Kingdom of Amular 15 years from now when the game requires an online pass to play the single player? How would that even work? I don't even know, which is what bugs me.

Edit: I was just thinking about something. You know that thread about David Jaffe talking about how he doesn't like online passes? He was talking about how he didn't want to use online passes for his Twisted Metal game, but Sony made him do it. I now understand why he's mad about it. Since online passes are relatively new, it isn't a universal understanding among gamers that games are using these online passes. I GUARANTEE YOU that most of the people that buy an online pass game, new or used, are unaware that the game even uses an online pass. If I were David Jaffe, I would be pissed off as well, because he is essentially the guinea pig for the online pass project. They're using him and his game to test the waters. If uninformed gamers get screwed over by his product, he's going to be the one getting the backlash.

Online Passes can go die in a fire. The Batman online pass lockssingle playercontent and expires on Oct 2016. If someone picks up the game late, he's screwed. You need an internet connection to activate it, so you're missing part of the game if you don't have your console connected to the internet.

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

]How are you being "treated like a criminal"? :/

Miroku32

it is worse, at least withpirated games no one gains money. With saved games a massive company that does nothing for gaming makes all the profits.

Principles.
Though you are pointing to a very worrysome trend in all kinds of markets today:
Voting with your money is becoming obsolete, because companies are seeing what they want to see in market behaviour.

Like your example:
If you stop buying games with online passes, they won't think 'hey people don't like online passes'. They rather think 'piracy is costing us a lot of profit'.

This way the consumer is silenced, and companies become not so much 'for' the consumer, but 'regardless' or even 'against' the consumer. They set out to write laws to control the consumers wallet regardless of your opinion, through things like sopa, pipa, acta.

That companies see what they want to see is because of their top down structure. Nobody opposes the 'man with the gun'. So the employees see what the boss wants them to see. The company throughout time becomes blind to the truth. This is why naturally in our future, companies will become oppressors if they have the power and possibility to do so.

If companies become oppressors they should know that all possible outcomes of that situation are undesirable by all involved. For consumers and companies, as they need each other and are part of each other. Sadly, corporations don't think. I think it's an unevitable necessary step for mankind to, at some point in our future, have to deal with very corrupt corporate power.

What I'm saying is, I don't think sopa, pipa, acta haven't been the last of their kind and that this will only get worse.

[QUOTE="Miroku32"][QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

]How are you being "treated like a criminal"? :/

tenaka2

it is worse, at least withpirated games no one gains money. With saved games a massive company that does nothing for gaming makes all the profits.

Not one game I've purchased this gen has an online pass.

And out of the games I've bought or plan on buying this year, (SoulCalibur V, Mass Effect 3, Dragon's Crown, Bioshock Infinite, Dragon's Dogma) only one of them (ME3) will have an online pass.

So coincidentally, I never bought games with online passes. It seems as if most of the games I'm interested in don't require them.

But then again, I rarely buy 4-8 hour games where online MP is the main focus. I rent those types of games for 99 cents, or borrow them from friends and just play through the campaign.

[QUOTE="Miroku32"][QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

]How are you being "treated like a criminal"? :/

tenaka2

it is worse, at least withpirated games no one gains money. With saved games a massive company that does nothing for gaming makes all the profits.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Online pass is almost as stupid as the XBL fee, they both are rip offs but at least it isn't as bad as XBL, it doesn't completely lock the game out. All this does is trample on consumer rights, and the idiot fanboys that defend this crap are the ones to blame for this. If you defend this or XBL your just stupid, I guess you enjoy being ripped off, sorry but it's the cold hard truth.

I'm also pissed of at Sony for bullying devs to do this, they did it to Naughty Dog and they did it to Santa Monica (Twisted Metal and God of War deves, buy TM btw, the demo's awesome). They refused to do this but Sony forced them to, they don't care about consumer rights very much. But MS is even worse, and the only person we have to blam are the idiots that defend this.

These are the same people that buy over priced map packs and think it's a good deal, hell I remember this one Lem thought the XBL family pack was a great deal because he get's 4 accounts for paying $100 a year, sorry that's just straight up stupid. I can have as many accounts as I want to on PSN for FREE!

mems_1224

[QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"][QUOTE="Gxgear"]

Online pass is just an excuse for people too cheap to support the creators of the game.

Gxgear

This sense of self-entitlement is exactly why online passes were implemented in the first place. Thank you for reaffirming my point.

Online pass is almost as stupid as the XBL fee, they both are rip offs but at least it isn't as bad as XBL, it doesn't completely lock the game out. All this does is trample on consumer rights, and the idiot fanboys that defend this crap are the ones to blame for this. If you defend this or XBL your just stupid, I guess you enjoy being ripped off, sorry but it's the cold hard truth.

I'm also pissed of at Sony for bullying devs to do this, they did it to Naughty Dog and they did it to Santa Monica (Twisted Metal and God of War deves, buy TM btw, the demo's awesome). They refused to do this but Sony forced them to, they don't care about consumer rights very much. But MS is even worse, and the only person we have to blam are the idiots that defend this.

These are the same people that buy over priced map packs and think it's a good deal, hell I remember this one Lem thought the XBL family pack was a great deal because he get's 4 accounts for paying $100 a year, sorry that's just straight up stupid. I can have as many accounts as I want to on PSN for FREE!

[QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"][QUOTE="mems_1224"]wait...why is it a rip off? id think as a harcore cow you'd want as many new copies of twisted metal or uncharted being sold.mems_1224

[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"] Do you have any data that suggests that games with the online pass sell better than games without it?PurpleMan5000

I don't buy them because every game I've bought with an online pass has been pretty much crap.

R3, KZ3, BC2, BF3. Actually, KZ3 may not have had a pass... I can't remember. It was crap though.

I actually tried to play the SP of BF3 and I couldn't because I couldn't connect to EA's servers... for the single player campaign.