The wii is going to kill of high-end console gaming in a few years....

[QUOTE="scottie300z"]: hardware to software ratio: 3.44 (hardware total sold = 4.5 million; software total sold = 15.5 million)

LordQuorthon

You DO realize that those figures are horribly outdated, right?

I just checked it from another source and you're right. So yes, horribly is the right word. Although it still shows that during that period of time more 360 games were sold per console than wii. Now that could change (or it might not have,) but is it b/c after all this time all of a sudden the casuals are searching for more of the experience or have more hardcore players bought wiis and therefore more wii games? (I know it's not really a fair question since the answer would be speculation.) But why don't you do us both a favor for the sake of the conversation and provide the correct hardware and software sales since I can't seem to find the right ones for both consoles?

Now that could change, but is it b/c after all this time all of a sudden the casuals are searching for more of the experience or have more hardcore players bought wiis and therefore more wii games?

scottie300z

Oh... So, you think the labels "casual" and "hardcore" actually mean something. See... That means there's no way we will find any kind of agreement zone. Please, let's just drop the debate right here, if you don't mind.

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]I'm willing to bet that Nintendo's next console will be less powerful than the X360. neo__jc

the Wii has more power than the old xbox, so i think next nintendo console will have more power than 360

Doubt it, unless Nintendo intends to hemorrage their bank account.

[QUOTE="scottie300z"] Now that could change, but is it b/c after all this time all of a sudden the casuals are searching for more of the experience or have more hardcore players bought wiis and therefore more wii games?

LordQuorthon

Oh... So, you think the labels "casual" and "hardcore" actually mean something. See.. That means there's no way we will find any kind of agreement zone. Please, let's just drop the debate right here, if you don't mind.

We can drop it ,but I would like to atleast make myself clear on my use of those labels, if that's ok.

Just like in my first post that you quoted, when I used "casual" in this discussion I was refering to the mainly 30+ people who bought wiis when they hadn't really been into gaming before. Hardcores are of course people who spend plenty of time and money on the past time. And it's an important distinction given the point of that first post I made. The reason people seem to think the wii will kill off high-end gaming is b/c of the rise of that market. And that's why I was discussing them.

I honestly was interested in learning more than just trying to be "right." Sorry if it seemed like I was picking an argument.

[QUOTE="neo__jc"]

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]I'm willing to bet that Nintendo's next console will be less powerful than the X360. BladesOfAthena

the Wii has more power than the old xbox, so i think next nintendo console will have more power than 360

Doubt it, unless Nintendo intends to hemorrage their bank account.

maybe by then it would be cheaper to make...Look at how cheap the 360 is getting

[QUOTE="neo__jc"]

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]I'm willing to bet that Nintendo's next console will be less powerful than the X360. BladesOfAthena

the Wii has more power than the old xbox, so i think next nintendo console will have more power than 360

Doubt it, unless Nintendo intends to hemorrage their bank account.

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"][QUOTE="neo__jc"]

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]I'm willing to bet that Nintendo's next console will be less powerful than the X360. HarlockJC

the Wii has more power than the old xbox, so i think next nintendo console will have more power than 360

Doubt it, unless Nintendo intends to hemorrage their bank account.

maybe by then it would be cheaper to make...Look at how cheap the 360 is getting

Yeah but you also have to consider the miniaturization of the chipsets, which costs quite hefty sum of moola, that is assuming that Nintendo follows the same route with the Wii with its successor.

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"][QUOTE="neo__jc"]

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]I'm willing to bet that Nintendo's next console will be less powerful than the X360. air_wolf_cubed

the Wii has more power than the old xbox, so i think next nintendo console will have more power than 360

Doubt it, unless Nintendo intends to hemorrage their bank account.

Yeah, but Nintendo is interested in making money, not losing it. Even if X360 caliber technology is to be cheap in the upcoming future, even so...assuming that Nintendo takes the minimalist approach with their next console, its still going to cost a lot of money just to shrink the chipsets.

Just like in my first post that you quoted, when I used "casual" in this discussion I was refering to the mainly 30+ people who bought wiis when they hadn't really been into gaming before. Hardcores are of course people who spend plenty of time and money on the past time.

scottie300z

And how do you define the audience that never played video games, but, during the last generation, was on their 30s+, got a PS2 and played games like Resident Evil 4 and Soul Calibur 2/3 every now and then? There's a reason the PS2 sold 100+ million units.

You see, obviously, Nintendo is trying to get even more new players, that's clear. But there's a reason why they are not planning a Wii Sports sequel. And that's why you need to be very careful when you use terms like "casual", because, statistically, it's irrelevant. Sure, a bunch of people got the Wii for Wii Sports and don't buy games, as well as a bunch teenage girls got a DS for Nintendogs and never bought more games, but they are a really tiny fraction. That's why the term "casual" doesn't really exist. If it did, what "casual" game did 200 freaking million PS1/PS2 owners played? It's clear that only a fraction of PS1/PS2 owners played 10 or more hours every week, but that doesn't make the rest of them "casual".

[QUOTE="scottie300z"]

Just like in my first post that you quoted, when I used "casual" in this discussion I was refering to the mainly 30+ people who bought wiis when they hadn't really been into gaming before. Hardcores are of course people who spend plenty of time and money on the past time.

LordQuorthon

And how do you define the audience that never played video games, but, during the last generation, was on their 30s+, got a PS2 and played games like Resident Evil 4 and Soul Calibur 2/3 every now and then? There's a reason the PS2 sold 100+ million units.

You see, obviously, Nintendo is trying to get even more new players, that's clear. But there's a reason why they are not planning a Wii Sports sequel. And that's why you need to be very careful when you use terms like "casual", because, statistically, it's irrelevant. Sure, a bunch of people got the Wii for Wii Sports and don't buy games, as well as a bunch teenage girls got a DS for Nintendogs and never bought more games, but they are a really tiny fraction. That's why the term "casual" doesn't really exist. If it did, what "casual" game did 200 freaking million PS1/PS2 owners played? It's clear that only a fraction of PS1/PS2 owners played 10 or more hours every week, but that doesn't make the rest of them "casual".

I never described any game as a "casual game" Any wii game I mentioned was b/c of the easy and new gameplay that attracted them to the wii. It doesn't matter what game the ps2 casuals played. You pointed out that there were people who gamed casually, those same people are the ones I called caual gamers. I think you misinterpreted me, You're right in that games shouldn't necessarily be titled as casual games but there are people who play more casually than other people. No matter what kind of game catches their fancy. I'm sure some people play 10 hrs a week of games like wii sports and raymond raving rabbids and buy tons of those types of games.

I never said the casual gamer didn't exist before. And if anything you sort of proved my first point that you quoted. The wii offered those casual gamers something new that they hadn't seen before, so now instead of buying a ps3 what did they buy? A wii. Or they stayed w/ their ps2. They obviously weren't content to buy more of the same experience, or they would have.

Wow im convinced the more time you spend on here the more stupid you get. Ok for starters saying 360 has better games that wii is an opinion not fact. 360 sales are fine and its software sales are great. So I really cant see why Microsoft would change its tatics and stop doing high end machines when its getting great 3rd party support and 3rd party games are selling great.Mitazaki

They would stop doing High-End tatics because of all the RROD.

That cost them so damn much. They came out with how many new 360 models???

The TC is trying to say in the future MS and Sony will use cheaper hardware and possibly less powerful than you think they might be, compared to ...a PC.

Predicting future = fail.

[QUOTE="Mitazaki"]Wow im convinced the more time you spend on here the more stupid you get. Ok for starters saying 360 has better games that wii is an opinion not fact. 360 sales are fine and its software sales are great. So I really cant see why Microsoft would change its tatics and stop doing high end machines when its getting great 3rd party support and 3rd party games are selling great.kingman03

They would stop doing High-End tatics because of all the RROD.

That cost them so damn much. They came out with how many new 360 models???

The TC is trying to say in the future MS and Sony will use cheaper hardware and possibly less powerful than you think they might be, compared to ...a PC.

I don't that it was the X360's high-end architecture was what affected the RRODs so much as it was MS's mishandling of the shortages back when it first launched.

How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.VideoGameGuy

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.ofx360

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

[QUOTE="scottie300z"]

Just like in my first post that you quoted, when I used "casual" in this discussion I was refering to the mainly 30+ people who bought wiis when they hadn't really been into gaming before. Hardcores are of course people who spend plenty of time and money on the past time.

LordQuorthon

And how do you define the audience that never played video games, but, during the last generation, was on their 30s+, got a PS2 and played games like Resident Evil 4 and Soul Calibur 2/3 every now and then? There's a reason the PS2 sold 100+ million units.

You see, obviously, Nintendo is trying to get even more new players, that's clear. But there's a reason why they are not planning a Wii Sports sequel. And that's why you need to be very careful when you use terms like "casual", because, statistically, it's irrelevant. Sure, a bunch of people got the Wii for Wii Sports and don't buy games, as well as a bunch teenage girls got a DS for Nintendogs and never bought more games, but they are a really tiny fraction. That's why the term "casual" doesn't really exist. If it did, what "casual" game did 200 freaking million PS1/PS2 owners played? It's clear that only a fraction of PS1/PS2 owners played 10 or more hours every week, but that doesn't make the rest of them "casual".

One question: out of that 200 "freaking million" ps1/ps2, how many of those do you think were a 2nd or 3rd(or 4th if you look at my friend) purchase for someone. Sony must really know how to dish out the cool-aid cause you(and many others) seem to be drinking it all up.

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.ofx360

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

[QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.air_wolf_cubed

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

I do think Sony/MS will focus less on graphics next gen, which could be a good thing.

They will almost certainly include some kind of gimmick to attract non-gamers. That's one thing I'm (almost) sure of.

[QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.ofx360

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that most Wii owners are kids or old people?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof.

[QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.VideoGameGuy

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

If my corrections are right, then yes there are lot of old people,kids, and moms i this world. Gamers on the other hand are scarce in comparison.

[QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.IronBass

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that most Wii owners are kids or old people?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof.

The funny thing is this whole thread is based on bs and speculation so...

[QUOTE="LordQuorthon"][QUOTE="scottie300z"]

Just like in my first post that you quoted, when I used "casual" in this discussion I was refering to the mainly 30+ people who bought wiis when they hadn't really been into gaming before. Hardcores are of course people who spend plenty of time and money on the past time.

ofx360

And how do you define the audience that never played video games, but, during the last generation, was on their 30s+, got a PS2 and played games like Resident Evil 4 and Soul Calibur 2/3 every now and then? There's a reason the PS2 sold 100+ million units.

You see, obviously, Nintendo is trying to get even more new players, that's clear. But there's a reason why they are not planning a Wii Sports sequel. And that's why you need to be very careful when you use terms like "casual", because, statistically, it's irrelevant. Sure, a bunch of people got the Wii for Wii Sports and don't buy games, as well as a bunch teenage girls got a DS for Nintendogs and never bought more games, but they are a really tiny fraction. That's why the term "casual" doesn't really exist. If it did, what "casual" game did 200 freaking million PS1/PS2 owners played? It's clear that only a fraction of PS1/PS2 owners played 10 or more hours every week, but that doesn't make the rest of them "casual".

One question: out of that 200 "freaking million" ps1/ps2, how many of those do you think were a 2nd or 3rd(or 4th if you look at my friend) purchase for someone. Sony must really know how to dish out the cool-aid cause you(and many others) seem to be drinking it all up.

You could make the same argument for every console that's been released.

Even so, the PS2 still boasts the highest tie-ratio ever for a console.

[QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="LordQuorthon"][QUOTE="scottie300z"]

Just like in my first post that you quoted, when I used "casual" in this discussion I was refering to the mainly 30+ people who bought wiis when they hadn't really been into gaming before. Hardcores are of course people who spend plenty of time and money on the past time.

BladesOfAthena

And how do you define the audience that never played video games, but, during the last generation, was on their 30s+, got a PS2 and played games like Resident Evil 4 and Soul Calibur 2/3 every now and then? There's a reason the PS2 sold 100+ million units.

You see, obviously, Nintendo is trying to get even more new players, that's clear. But there's a reason why they are not planning a Wii Sports sequel. And that's why you need to be very careful when you use terms like "casual", because, statistically, it's irrelevant. Sure, a bunch of people got the Wii for Wii Sports and don't buy games, as well as a bunch teenage girls got a DS for Nintendogs and never bought more games, but they are a really tiny fraction. That's why the term "casual" doesn't really exist. If it did, what "casual" game did 200 freaking million PS1/PS2 owners played? It's clear that only a fraction of PS1/PS2 owners played 10 or more hours every week, but that doesn't make the rest of them "casual".

One question: out of that 200 "freaking million" ps1/ps2, how many of those do you think were a 2nd or 3rd(or 4th if you look at my friend) purchase for someone. Sony must really know how to dish out the cool-aid cause you(and many others) seem to be drinking it all up.

You could make the same argument for every console that's been released.

Even so, the PS2 still boasts the highest tie-ratio ever for a console.

Not the wii. The wii is a pretty solid console. Anyway the only reason i said what i said is because people throw that number around like a hot potato not thinking about how sony could have easily spun the number. It just kinda annoys me

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.ofx360

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that most Wii owners are kids or old people?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof.

The funny thing is this whole thread is based on bs and speculation so...

So you like to speculate? No problem, I can play the same game:

The PS3 is far more kiddish than the Wii, it appeals to little kids who are so impressed only by grapchis and because they were told that the PS3 is Cool. MOre adult gamers know that gaming is not just about graphics, and that's why they got a Wii.

See how does speculation works? At least a survey backs me up:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/wii/survey-children-prefer-ps3-most-wii-least-215664.php

[QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.IronBass

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that most Wii owners are kids or old people?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof.

The funny thing is this whole thread is based on bs and speculation so...

So you like to speculate? No problem, I can play the same game:

The PS3 is far more kiddish than the Wii, it appeals to little kids who are so impressed only by grapchis and because they were told that the PS3 is Cool. MOre adult gamers know that gaming is not just about graphics, and that's why they got a Wii.

See how does speculation works? At least a survey backs me up:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/wii/survey-children-prefer-ps3-most-wii-least-215664.php

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6479280

yea surveys back me up to...

Anyways if gameplay is all wii player care about then graphic would just be a plus. Now tell me do they also own a ps3/360 for innovative new games. If the answer to that is yes then where is all the other people coming from. This system is being touted as the casual system not only by me but by the big Nintendo man himself. They are try to reach a "NEW" market and now tell me where does this new market lie...with grandmas,kids, and wait for it (drum rolls please) moms.

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.ofx360

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that most Wii owners are kids or old people?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof.

The funny thing is this whole thread is based on bs and speculation so...

So you like to speculate? No problem, I can play the same game:

The PS3 is far more kiddish than the Wii, it appeals to little kids who are so impressed only by grapchis and because they were told that the PS3 is Cool. MOre adult gamers know that gaming is not just about graphics, and that's why they got a Wii.

See how does speculation works? At least a survey backs me up:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/wii/survey-children-prefer-ps3-most-wii-least-215664.php

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6479280

yea surveys back me up to...

Anyways if gameplay is all wii player care about then graphic would just be a plus. Now tell me do they also own a ps3/360 for innovative new games. If the answer to that is yes then where is all the other people coming from. This system is being touted as the casual system not only by me but by the big Nintendo man himself. They are try to reach a "NEW" market and now tell me where does this new market lie...with grandmas,kids, and wait for it (drum rolls please) moms.

Eh... nope. That was EXACTLY what the PS1 dis, appealing to new markets. Are you going to say me that the PS1 appealed to "grandmas,kids, and moms." Also, your survey talks about kids about 8-13, I didn`t read a word about grandmas and moms.

I will accept that the Wii is a little (just a little) more oriented to younger adduiences, but considering that the gamer average age is 28-29 (see link) it is riddiculous to think that the (by far) most sold console this gen is most played by kids.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-12-gamer-demographics_x.htm

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="LordQuorthon"][QUOTE="scottie300z"]

Just like in my first post that you quoted, when I used "casual" in this discussion I was refering to the mainly 30+ people who bought wiis when they hadn't really been into gaming before. Hardcores are of course people who spend plenty of time and money on the past time.

ofx360

And how do you define the audience that never played video games, but, during the last generation, was on their 30s+, got a PS2 and played games like Resident Evil 4 and Soul Calibur 2/3 every now and then? There's a reason the PS2 sold 100+ million units.

You see, obviously, Nintendo is trying to get even more new players, that's clear. But there's a reason why they are not planning a Wii Sports sequel. And that's why you need to be very careful when you use terms like "casual", because, statistically, it's irrelevant. Sure, a bunch of people got the Wii for Wii Sports and don't buy games, as well as a bunch teenage girls got a DS for Nintendogs and never bought more games, but they are a really tiny fraction. That's why the term "casual" doesn't really exist. If it did, what "casual" game did 200 freaking million PS1/PS2 owners played? It's clear that only a fraction of PS1/PS2 owners played 10 or more hours every week, but that doesn't make the rest of them "casual".

One question: out of that 200 "freaking million" ps1/ps2, how many of those do you think were a 2nd or 3rd(or 4th if you look at my friend) purchase for someone. Sony must really know how to dish out the cool-aid cause you(and many others) seem to be drinking it all up.

You could make the same argument for every console that's been released.

Even so, the PS2 still boasts the highest tie-ratio ever for a console.

Not the wii. The wii is a pretty solid console. Anyway the only reason i said what i said is because people throw that number around like a hot potato not thinking about how sony could have easily spun the number. It just kinda annoys me

I dunno, if I were to use your line of logic, then I can just as easily say that there are countless numbers of people who've replaced their DS Phats with DS Lites, much like myself. I know I traded mine in for a DS Lite given that the backlit screens were superior. Maybe Nintendo also spun their numbers too.

Not really. I've heard reports of consoles breaking around at Neogaf and over here as well. I'd say the PS3 is much more durable than the Wii even.

I dont know any game more fun too simply pick up and play with a couple of friends then SSBB.

The Wii can't be that bad.. Its not like Xbox and PS are high end anyway.. If you aim for high end stuff, go for PC.

[QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.IronBass

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that most Wii owners are kids or old people?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof.

The funny thing is this whole thread is based on bs and speculation so...

So you like to speculate? No problem, I can play the same game:

The PS3 is far more kiddish than the Wii, it appeals to little kids who are so impressed only by grapchis and because they were told that the PS3 is Cool. MOre adult gamers know that gaming is not just about graphics, and that's why they got a Wii.

See how does speculation works? At least a survey backs me up:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/wii/survey-children-prefer-ps3-most-wii-least-215664.php

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6479280

yea surveys back me up to...

Anyways if gameplay is all wii player care about then graphic would just be a plus. Now tell me do they also own a ps3/360 for innovative new games. If the answer to that is yes then where is all the other people coming from. This system is being touted as the casual system not only by me but by the big Nintendo man himself. They are try to reach a "NEW" market and now tell me where does this new market lie...with grandmas,kids, and wait for it (drum rolls please) moms.

Eh... nope. That was EXACTLY what the PS1 dis, appealing to new markets. Are you going to say me that the PS1 appealed to "grandmas,kids, and moms." Also, your survey talks about kids about 8-13, I didn`t read a word about grandmas and moms.

I will accept that the Wii is a little (just a little) more oriented to younger adduiences, but considering that the gamer average age is 28-29 (see link) it is riddiculous to think that the (by far) most sold console this gen is most played by kids.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-12-gamer-demographics_x.htm

[QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="LordQuorthon"][QUOTE="scottie300z"]

Just like in my first post that you quoted, when I used "casual" in this discussion I was refering to the mainly 30+ people who bought wiis when they hadn't really been into gaming before. Hardcores are of course people who spend plenty of time and money on the past time.

BladesOfAthena

And how do you define the audience that never played video games, but, during the last generation, was on their 30s+, got a PS2 and played games like Resident Evil 4 and Soul Calibur 2/3 every now and then? There's a reason the PS2 sold 100+ million units.

You see, obviously, Nintendo is trying to get even more new players, that's clear. But there's a reason why they are not planning a Wii Sports sequel. And that's why you need to be very careful when you use terms like "casual", because, statistically, it's irrelevant. Sure, a bunch of people got the Wii for Wii Sports and don't buy games, as well as a bunch teenage girls got a DS for Nintendogs and never bought more games, but they are a really tiny fraction. That's why the term "casual" doesn't really exist. If it did, what "casual" game did 200 freaking million PS1/PS2 owners played? It's clear that only a fraction of PS1/PS2 owners played 10 or more hours every week, but that doesn't make the rest of them "casual".

One question: out of that 200 "freaking million" ps1/ps2, how many of those do you think were a 2nd or 3rd(or 4th if you look at my friend) purchase for someone. Sony must really know how to dish out the cool-aid cause you(and many others) seem to be drinking it all up.

You could make the same argument for every console that's been released.

Even so, the PS2 still boasts the highest tie-ratio ever for a console.

Not the wii. The wii is a pretty solid console. Anyway the only reason i said what i said is because people throw that number around like a hot potato not thinking about how sony could have easily spun the number. It just kinda annoys me

I dunno, if I were to use your line of logic, then I can just as easily say that there are countless numbers of people who've replaced their DS Phats with DS Lites, much like myself. I know I traded mine in for a DS Lite given that the backlit screens were superior. Maybe Nintendo also spun their numbers too.

Not really. I've heard reports of consoles breaking around at Neogaf and over here as well. I'd say the PS3 is much more durable than the Wii even.

It was probably a more reliable console before fw2.40(i didnt happen to me thankfully). Anyway i know what you're saying its just 200 million ps1/ps2 is thrown around a lot more than 360 or wii numbers. There thrown around so little i dont even know them

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.ofx360

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that most Wii owners are kids or old people?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof.

The funny thing is this whole thread is based on bs and speculation so...

So you like to speculate? No problem, I can play the same game:

The PS3 is far more kiddish than the Wii, it appeals to little kids who are so impressed only by grapchis and because they were told that the PS3 is Cool. MOre adult gamers know that gaming is not just about graphics, and that's why they got a Wii.

See how does speculation works? At least a survey backs me up:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/wii/survey-children-prefer-ps3-most-wii-least-215664.php

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6479280

yea surveys back me up to...

Anyways if gameplay is all wii player care about then graphic would just be a plus. Now tell me do they also own a ps3/360 for innovative new games. If the answer to that is yes then where is all the other people coming from. This system is being touted as the casual system not only by me but by the big Nintendo man himself. They are try to reach a "NEW" market and now tell me where does this new market lie...with grandmas,kids, and wait for it (drum rolls please) moms.

Eh... nope. That was EXACTLY what the PS1 dis, appealing to new markets. Are you going to say me that the PS1 appealed to "grandmas,kids, and moms." Also, your survey talks about kids about 8-13, I didn`t read a word about grandmas and moms.

I will accept that the Wii is a little (just a little) more oriented to younger adduiences, but considering that the gamer average age is 28-29 (see link) it is riddiculous to think that the (by far) most sold console this gen is most played by kids.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-12-gamer-demographics_x.htm

This arguement is dumb. There is a lot of people that live of this earth: a lot are old, a lot are kids, a lot are moms. There are not a lot of many gamers. This console is touted by Nintendo as the console for casual gamers. Attach rates for Harcore games on the console is low and attach rates for games that are more casual(except boomblox which is weird) are high. These are trends can show that there are more casual gamers on this console than hardcore. I presented facts to show you that wii is a casual console for reasons that i can't remember. So to end this dumb arguement, you are right...END

Eh... nope. You haven't proved that the Wii is played by moms or grandmas. And maybe the Wii is "more casual", but no more than the PS1 and PS2 were.

8bit FTW!FragTycoon

16bit FTW

[QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.IronBass

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that most Wii owners are kids or old people?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof.

The funny thing is this whole thread is based on bs and speculation so...

So you like to speculate? No problem, I can play the same game:

The PS3 is far more kiddish than the Wii, it appeals to little kids who are so impressed only by grapchis and because they were told that the PS3 is Cool. MOre adult gamers know that gaming is not just about graphics, and that's why they got a Wii.

See how does speculation works? At least a survey backs me up:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/wii/survey-children-prefer-ps3-most-wii-least-215664.php

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6479280

yea surveys back me up to...

Anyways if gameplay is all wii player care about then graphic would just be a plus. Now tell me do they also own a ps3/360 for innovative new games. If the answer to that is yes then where is all the other people coming from. This system is being touted as the casual system not only by me but by the big Nintendo man himself. They are try to reach a "NEW" market and now tell me where does this new market lie...with grandmas,kids, and wait for it (drum rolls please) moms.

Eh... nope. That was EXACTLY what the PS1 dis, appealing to new markets. Are you going to say me that the PS1 appealed to "grandmas,kids, and moms." Also, your survey talks about kids about 8-13, I didn`t read a word about grandmas and moms.

I will accept that the Wii is a little (just a little) more oriented to younger adduiences, but considering that the gamer average age is 28-29 (see link) it is riddiculous to think that the (by far) most sold console this gen is most played by kids.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-12-gamer-demographics_x.htm

This arguement is dumb. There is a lot of people that live of this earth: a lot are old, a lot are kids, a lot are moms. There are not a lot of many gamers. This console is touted by Nintendo as the console for casual gamers. Attach rates for Harcore games on the console is low and attach rates for games that are more casual(except boomblox which is weird) are high. These are trends can show that there are more casual gamers on this console than hardcore. I presented facts to show you that wii is a casual console for reasons that i can't remember. So to end this dumb arguement, you are right...END

Eh... nope. You haven't proved that the Wii is played by moms or grandmas. And maybe the Wii is "more casual", but no more than the PS1 and PS2 were.

"Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that [ps1/ps2 is no more casual than the Wii]?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof."

Second, all im doing is chasing you. I just wrote a whole paragraph explaining my point just to have you say nope you did explain how it for moms and grandma(must of explain how its was for kids though). Well it your turn, prove to me that its not a casual console

Edit:It was never a discussion if your mom was getting a ps2. So yes wii is more casual

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="ofx360"][QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="ofx360"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]How much better do you need graphics to get? We're borderline photorealistic as it is. Nintendo proved that graphics have reached the point where people don't really care anymore. Innovate or die.ofx360

By people you mean grandmas,kids, and moms right cause then i'll agree with you. The reason people buy the wii in droves is because its cheap and people think they can lose weight on the thing.

THAT JUST HAPPENED

Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that most Wii owners are kids or old people?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof.

The funny thing is this whole thread is based on bs and speculation so...

So you like to speculate? No problem, I can play the same game:

The PS3 is far more kiddish than the Wii, it appeals to little kids who are so impressed only by grapchis and because they were told that the PS3 is Cool. MOre adult gamers know that gaming is not just about graphics, and that's why they got a Wii.

See how does speculation works? At least a survey backs me up:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/wii/survey-children-prefer-ps3-most-wii-least-215664.php

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6479280

yea surveys back me up to...

Anyways if gameplay is all wii player care about then graphic would just be a plus. Now tell me do they also own a ps3/360 for innovative new games. If the answer to that is yes then where is all the other people coming from. This system is being touted as the casual system not only by me but by the big Nintendo man himself. They are try to reach a "NEW" market and now tell me where does this new market lie...with grandmas,kids, and wait for it (drum rolls please) moms.

Eh... nope. That was EXACTLY what the PS1 dis, appealing to new markets. Are you going to say me that the PS1 appealed to "grandmas,kids, and moms." Also, your survey talks about kids about 8-13, I didn`t read a word about grandmas and moms.

I will accept that the Wii is a little (just a little) more oriented to younger adduiences, but considering that the gamer average age is 28-29 (see link) it is riddiculous to think that the (by far) most sold console this gen is most played by kids.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-12-gamer-demographics_x.htm

This arguement is dumb. There is a lot of people that live of this earth: a lot are old, a lot are kids, a lot are moms. There are not a lot of many gamers. This console is touted by Nintendo as the console for casual gamers. Attach rates for Harcore games on the console is low and attach rates for games that are more casual(except boomblox which is weird) are high. These are trends can show that there are more casual gamers on this console than hardcore. I presented facts to show you that wii is a casual console for reasons that i can't remember. So to end this dumb arguement, you are right...END

Eh... nope. You haven't proved that the Wii is played by moms or grandmas. And maybe the Wii is "more casual", but no more than the PS1 and PS2 were.

"Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that [ps1/ps2 is no more casual than the Wii]?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof."

Second, all im doing is chasing you. I just wrote a whole paragraph explaining my point just to have you say nope you did explain how it for moms and grandma(must of explain how its was for kids though). Well it your turn, prove to me that its not a casual console

That's exactly what you did, you explained your point, but no, you haven't shown any proof. Just more speculation/interpretatrions/opinions.

Hmm. I think you guys exceeded the quote limit there.

@ofx360,

"There is a lot of people that live of this earth: a lot are old, a lot are kids, a lot are moms. There are not a lot of many gamers. This console is touted by Nintendo as the console for casual gamers."

Your problem is that you are exclusionary and refuse to accept that someone who buys a $250 console and 1-2 games over a year is a "real gamer". Nintendo has over 20 million "Hardcore" aka "Veteran" gamers who have been hardcore gaming since the 80s. I would estimate that out of the 28 million Wiis sold that AT LEAST 15-20 million have been sold to "real gamers". The PS3 and 360 don't appeal to "casual" gamers, because they aren't fun for those people. That's why Nintendo, aka the Big 1 is slaughtering the other Big 2.

Overall, no the Wii will not kill high-end console gaming. Sony and Microsoft wouldn't dare step into that realm. Graphics hype is their bread and butter.

gamecubepad

Well just like me this is a "speculation" and it doesnt matter as the other guys says. But your right. There should be alot more older(80s) gamers and i never took that into account. The other guy i was arguing with left alot of thing open ended which allowed me to continue arguing.

And i have no idea how to remove quotes without ruining the post

Why blame the Wii if Sony and Microsoft make consoles similar to the Wii? Nintendo doesnt make decisions for themair_wolf_cubed

God I really hate the girl in your sig.

"Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that [ps1/ps2 is no more casual than the Wii]?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof."

Second, all im doing is chasing you. I just wrote a whole paragraph explaining my point just to have you say nope you did explain how it for moms and grandma(must of explain how its was for kids though). Well it your turn, prove to me that its not a casual console

That's exactly what you did, you explained your point, but no, you haven't shown any proof. Just more speculation/interpretatrions/opinions.

:roll: There you go again. As i said all i would be doing is chasing you. Nice tactic for get around what i ask you to do.

ofx360

"Well, you don't seem to understand. Do you have a PROOF that [ps1/ps2 is no more casual than the Wii]?

What you think, say or speculate is irrelevant w/out proof."

Second, all im doing is chasing you. I just wrote a whole paragraph explaining my point just to have you say nope you did explain how it for moms and grandma(must of explain how its was for kids though). Well it your turn, prove to me that its not a casual console

That's exactly what you did, you explained your point, but no, you haven't shown any proof. Just more speculation/interpretatrions/opinions.

:roll: There you go again. As i said all i would be doing is chasing you. Nice tactic for get around what i ask you to do.

1. That doesn't change that you failed to prove that the Wii is mostly played by moms and gradmas (that was our original discussion).

2. The Wii is a strange console. Yeah, its low price and innovative contols could appeal casual gamers, but it also could stop them for buying it. It is no secret that most "casual" gamers aren't interested in things like gameplay, ,etc, but in what's cool and looks good. We all know that the Wii graphics are no match for the 360/PS3, that's why I think the Wii is more "hardcore" than the 360/PS3, because it's mainly focused on gamplay, not in graphics. Also, the "chilidsh" games, like Mario Galaxy, aren't casual-oriented. A Casual would say: "Mario is sooo childish" or "no match for Halo 3 online" or "look the graphics, they are cheap". A hardcore gamer knows the quality of those games, and that that doesn't depends on graphics.

EDIT: Good point of gamecubepad: all the old good N-fans (like me) that have been with Ninty all this years. There can't be more hardcore gamers than they.

Of course, everything I said is just speculation, but that could be used to debate if the Wii is that "casual-oriented only".