The wii is not an evolution!

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

That is from the offical statement for the name change decision from Revolution to Wii man.

Great_Ragnarok

ok cool. but that statement is ridiculous, sorry.

Complain to Nintendo not me. I'm just telling you what they said.

It could have been a revolution for FPS's but they messed that up by using outdated hardware and no FPS developer wants to step back to move forward... thay all want to create the best looking game possible.

[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]

That last line is fallicious, because a different direction is basically the definition of revolution.

Great_Ragnarok

not necessarily. walking back the way you came isn't revolutionary is it? but yeah I think the wii is more a translation than a revolution. a translation of our gaming experiences to a new audience. but in that case they should have both options available.

"Wii isnt next gen"

Real original right ? :lol:

Gh0st_Of_0nyx

huh? :(

Well, 1:1 mapping is not going to be used in the best games. The best games will have a bunch of preset animations, and using a recording technology for the Wii for certain actions, the closest animation to that movement will play. 1:1 mapping is just rediculous and jerky, it's not going to be the future of the Wii that's for sure. The fact is, the Wii has already started a revolution wether you like it or not. Just look at the players the Wii has attracted, it has finally pushed games over into the mainstream. Sure it could be better, and a lot of companies are jumping on the casual bandwagon, but these are just the growing pains we have to go through before a balance comes. I just look back and think it's cool how I used to play games before they were considered cool. Things change, and I bet you next gen Microsoft and Sony will copy Wii while Nintendo has moved onto something new.

-Wheels-

buttons in controllers are like those preset animations, in fact it's even more efficient than that. they are just buttons. all the experience is about the game and the awesome ways you interact with it by the press of a button. also I don't understand what you mean by games not being mainstream??? games have been mainstream for many years now. I mean the most successful entertainment product is GTA4.am I right? well according to GS at least. and also why do you care whether someone thinks you are cool or not for playing games?? Its just entertainment.

Actually, you are wrong. I think you are confusing revolution with evolution.

I disputed the wiimote in my topic comment in detail. im not going to repeat it again. and I said they should let both options be available for it to be a real revolution! why? well 1:1 mapping is inadequete sure it maybe friendlier to very casual gamers but what about the hardcore gamer. from his/her point of view the wiimote is a backwards step. so to stop that stagnation leaving both as options is the best! like with SSBB.Great_Ragnarok

This post is filled with so much fail it's overflowing over the sides of the thread.

You don't even seem to get what a revolution is.

It has nothing to do with "adequacy" it merely means a "different" direction. Haven't you ever heard of a "flawed revolution."

Also, how does "inadequacy" make it a step backwards? It merely would make it flawed.

Lastly, so-called "hardcore gamers" (whatever the hell that means:roll:) are not entitled to anything. If they have certain needs, they should find whatever product suits those needs and quit complaining about the Wii.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]I disputed the wiimote in my topic comment in detail. im not going to repeat it again. and I said they should let both options be available for it to be a real revolution! why? well 1:1 mapping is inadequete sure it maybe friendlier to very casual gamers but what about the hardcore gamer. from his/her point of view the wiimote is a backwards step. so to stop that stagnation leaving both as options is the best! like with SSBB.Tragic_Kingdom7

This post is filled with so much fail it's overflowing over the sides of the thread.

You don't even seem to get what a revolution is.

It has nothing to do with "adequacy" it merely means a "different" direction. Haven't you ever heard of a "flawed revolution."

Also, how does "inadequacy" make it a step backwards? It merely would make it flawed.

Lastly, so-called "hardcore gamers" (whatever the hell that means:roll:) are not entitled to anything. If they have certain needs, they should find whatever product suits those needs and quit complaining about the Wii.

why don't you stop being pedantic and comment on my point please! lets leave the definition of revolution to another topic. what I'm saying is that the wii has not taken a step forward! and the last time I checked the wii promised innovation, revolution etc etc.

also what are you saying? that I shouldn't discuss the wii in system wars??? isn't that what system war is?

SystemWars is getting old and becoming very stupid. Just play the games!Tjeremiah1988

what are you doing here then?

It could have been a revolution for FPS's but they messed that up by using outdated hardware and no FPS developer wants to step back to move forward... thay all want to create the best looking game possible.

sadikovic

erm sorry but wiimote is a very poor alternative to the mouse. also whose fault is it when nintendo failed to provide a decent platform to develop?

Actually, you are wrong. I think you are confusing revolution with evolution.

Quofan

ok so you agree with me that the wii isn't a step forward then.

why don't you stop being pedantic and comment on my point please! lets leave the definition of revolution to another topic. what I'm saying is that the wii has not taken a step forward! and the last time I checked the wii promised innovation, revolution etc etc.

also what are you saying? that I shouldn't discuss the wii in system wars??? isn't that what system war is?

Great_Ragnarok

I would agree that the Wii hasn't taken us a step forward. It feels last gen. That doesn't change the fact that the potential exists. And as someone pointed out to me (I'm not sure how to spell his name, but it was something like mjarantilla), the effects of the Wii may not be seen this gen. It may have just served it's purpose in that it got developers to pay attention to the control scheme of games. The effects of the "revolution" might be better seen in retrospect.

As for the second paragraph, I wasn't saying that you can't discuss the Wii, merely that not catering to "hardcore gamers" isn't a very good knock against it. "Hardcore gamers" aren't entitled to anything.

[QUOTE="sadikovic"]

It could have been a revolution for FPS's but they messed that up by using outdated hardware and no FPS developer wants to step back to move forward... thay all want to create the best looking game possible.

Great_Ragnarok

erm sorry but wiimote is a very poor alternative to the mouse. also whose fault is it when nintendo failed to provide a decent platform to develop?

"It Could have been..."... plus if you think moving a mouse on a flat horizontal surfice is better for first person "shooters" than aiming something at a screen like you would aim an actual gun then something is wrong with you.

Also, Great_Ragnarock, don't you think it's a bit silly to complain about me dwelling on what revolution means when your thread title says that the Wii isn't a revolution in an emphatic way?

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

That is from the offical statement for the name change decision from Revolution to Wii man.

Great_Ragnarok

ok cool. but that statement is ridiculous, sorry.

Not entirely, the wii is the most local multiplayer friendly console this gen, I don't think that point can be argued? Therefore, "Wii" seems like a good name for it.

"It Could have been..."... plus if you think moving a mouse on a flat horizontal surfice is better for first person "shooters" than aiming something at a screen like you would aim an actual gun then something is wrong with you.

sadikovic

I didn't say the concept was stupid/ I commented on the wiimote. the wiimote is a bad alternative to the mouse. but the concept in general is something thats hard to accomplish imo. some arcades had a very good system but the convienience of the mouse is hard to beat.

Also, Great_Ragnarock, don't you think it's a bit silly to complain about me dwelling on what revolution means when your thread title says that the Wii isn't a revolution in an emphatic way?

Tragic_Kingdom7

yeah but wouldn't it be better to criticize my justification? but anyway what I mean in the title is that the wii isn't a step forward etc. so I guess evolution is a better word. but I'm not going to edit the title again.anyway if you had read my full comment then you'll realise the points im making. instead of assuming my opinion from the words in the title.

Revolution

I think the Wii fits some of those defintions

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

That is from the offical statement for the name change decision from Revolution to Wii man.

Andrew_Xavier

ok cool. but that statement is ridiculous, sorry.

Not entirely, the wii is the most local multiplayer friendly console this gen, I don't think that point can be argued? Therefore, "Wii" seems like a good name for it.

criticizing the name wasn't my point! please read the comment regarding the quote, the one where I comment on each statement! I was simply noting how ridiculous it is.

I disagree about the 1 : 1 controls. They are are a huge improvement, but I haven't seen any Wii game use them well yet and I hope Nintendo will use them soon (in a Zelda game preferably).

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"]SystemWars is getting old and becoming very stupid. Just play the games!Great_Ragnarok

what are you doing here then?

It could have been a revolution for FPS's but they messed that up by using outdated hardware and no FPS developer wants to step back to move forward... thay all want to create the best looking game possible.

sadikovic

erm sorry but wiimote is a very poor alternative to the mouse. also whose fault is it when nintendo failed to provide a decent platform to develop?

Actually, you are wrong. I think you are confusing revolution with evolution.

Quofan

ok so you agree with me that the wii isn't a step forward then.

I do think its a step forward.

Its a step forward in a different direction.

I cannot abide the selfishness of the so called "hardcore" crowd and it makes me sad that you people so concerned with games that are only suitable for one crowd or consoles focusing on hardware, technology and other geeky pursuits. I am geeky about some things but I respect that not everyone is as passionate about rock n roll or video games as I am. It's about time some gamers got over the fact that the Wii wants to break down the wall. Because there is a wall - as far as I am concerned, the "casual" and "hardcore" areas of the industry are like the Gaza Strip or East and West Berlin.

So many people cannot accept that not everyone thinks that a console has to have HD. It doesnt have to have advanced technology. It just has to do something different, and I commend Nintendo for realising that. In a way iot has created a paradox - a lot of the "hardcore" are confused into thinking Nintendo has 'sold out' to "casuals", but in forcing themselves to give in to the standard run of things with technological improvements, most companies are actually the ones selling out. Let's not forget the silly number of world war shooters available for the 360. What happened to the excitement that used to be generated when developers or companies tried someting new? They are scared of taking the risk.

Now the excitement for something unique, interesting and has gone and been replaced with (in my view) some horrific, nightmarish obsession with technology. Its no longer about games or innovation, its about showing off the flashy graphics of your console. Its what I think is wrong with the industry.

yeah but wouldn't it be better to criticize my justification? but anyway what I mean in the title is that the wii isn't a step forward etc. so I guess evolution is a better word. but I'm not going to edit the title again.anyway if you had read my full comment then you'll realise the points im making. instead of assuming my opinion from the words in the title.Great_Ragnarok

I assumed that your thread title was your conclusion and your points were the premises supporting that conclusion. That's how an argument usually is structured homie.

Revolution

I think the Wii fits some of those defintions

air_wolf_cubed

hmmm did you read my topic comment? it should make it clear what areas I criticize. also I admit my useage of the word isn't 100% accurate. but again reading my topic comment should make my opinion clear/

[QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"]

Revolution

I think the Wii fits some of those defintions

Great_Ragnarok

hmmm did you read my topic comment? it should make it clear what areas I criticize. also I admit my useage of the word isn't 100% accurate. but again reading my topic comment should make my opinion clear/

[QUOTE="sadikovic"]

"It Could have been..."... plus if you think moving a mouse on a flat horizontal surfice is better for first person "shooters" than aiming something at a screen like you would aim an actual gun then something is wrong with you.

Great_Ragnarok

I didn't say the concept was stupid/ I commented on the wiimote. the wiimote is a bad alternative to the mouse. but the concept in general is something thats hard to accomplish imo. some arcades had a very good system but the convienience of the mouse is hard to beat.

Whats wrong with you?!... you seem to be confused, in my first post I implied that the concept was solid and could have revolutionised the way we play modern FPS's but the you replied with:

erm sorry but wiimote is a very poor alternative to the mouse. also whose fault is it when nintendo failed to provide a decent platform to develop?

Great_Ragnarok

Your the one that braught up the wiimote.

I assumed that you're thread title was your conclusion and your points were the premises supporting that conclusion. That's how an argument usually is structured homie.

Tragic_Kingdom7

thanks for the tip homie! I'll make sure to keep a dictionary with me next time I write stuff :) but like I said the connotations I implied in the word revolution should be clear once you read my topic comment.

I do think its a step forward.

Its a step forward in a different direction.

I cannot abide the selfishness of the so called "hardcore" crowd and it makes me sad that you people so concerned with games that are only suitable for one crowd or consoles focusing on hardware, technology and other geeky pursuits. I am geeky about some things but I respect that not everyone is as passionate about rock n roll or video games as I am. It's about time some gamers got over the fact that the Wii wants to break down the wall. Because there is a wall - as far as I am concerned, the "casual" and "hardcore" areas of the industry are like the Gaza Strip or East and West Berlin.

please your ignorance of the gaza strip/berlin is embarassing and offending!! I can only speak about the place I live. and here in NZ we don't really call people geeky etc. at least not where I live. also how am I being selfish?? I'm simply suggesting that both options being avalable is a good thing! also I didn't mean hardcore as in better, just people who have been exposed to gaming for longer. I just don't see how the wiimote is anymore friendly than the keyboard/controller. all of us PC/360/PS3 fans were beginners at one stage as well you know. but we had no problem playing them. Nintendo has created false probles which it then claims to solve!

So many people cannot accept that not everyone thinks that a console has to have HD. It doesnt have to have advanced technology. It just has to do something different, and I commend Nintendo for realising that. In a way iot has created a paradox - a lot of the "hardcore" are confused into thinking Nintendo has 'sold out' to "casuals", but in forcing themselves to give in to the standard run of things with technological improvements, most companies are actually the ones selling out. Let's not forget the silly number of world war shooters available for the 360. What happened to the excitement that used to be generated when developers or companies tried someting new? They are scared of taking the risk.

Now the excitement for something unique, interesting and has gone and been replaced with (in my view) some horrific, nightmarish obsession with technology. Its no longer about games or innovation, its about showing off the flashy graphics of your console. Its what I think is wrong with the industry.

ok first of all your assumption that FPS has died etc is false. its fine if you don't like them there are plenty of other games to play. also graphics aren't just about being showy. saying that is an under appreciation of the effort some developers put in to their world for the sake of immersion! you have simply confused what graphics is. graphics is not just about HD textures. its also about animation, atmosphere and rendering of your actions/interactions. infact graphics is all that you see in a game! very important imo. my point about the technology is that the wii hasn't improved giving the freedom that X360 and PS3 allows!

Quofan

I disagree about the 1 : 1 controls. They are are a huge improvement, but I haven't seen any Wii game use them well yet and I hope Nintendo will use them soon (in a Zelda game preferably).

Stabby2486

how are they an improvement? I explained how this is not the case using a snowboarding game and the ninja gaiden game as examples.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"][QUOTE="sadikovic"]

"It Could have been..."... plus if you think moving a mouse on a flat horizontal surfice is better for first person "shooters" than aiming something at a screen like you would aim an actual gun then something is wrong with you.

sadikovic

I didn't say the concept was stupid/ I commented on the wiimote. the wiimote is a bad alternative to the mouse. but the concept in general is something thats hard to accomplish imo. some arcades had a very good system but the convienience of the mouse is hard to beat.

Whats wrong with you?!... you seem to be confused, in my first post I implied that the concept was solid and could have revolutionised the way we play modern FPS's but the you replied with:

erm sorry but wiimote is a very poor alternative to the mouse. also whose fault is it when nintendo failed to provide a decent platform to develop?

Great_Ragnarok

Your the one that braught up the wiimote.

well we are talking about the wii here! don't you think it's relevant that I bring up the wiimote? but yeah I now noticed that you said could.

how are they an improvement? I explained how this is not the case using a snowboarding game and the ninja gaiden game as examples.

poster

I'll give you the snowboarding game, I don't think 1 : 1 would work for that. But it's not hard to move a Wii-mote like you would with a sword.

thanks for the tip homie! I'll make sure to keep a dictionary with me next time I write stuff :) but like I said the connotations I implied in the word revolution should be clear once you read my topic comment.Great_Ragnarok

My point was that you can hardly fault people for reading your argument a certain way. When they read the thread title, they're thinking, "OK, this guy thinks the Wii is a revolution." Then they'll read your justifications and think, "These premises don't support the conclusion." So they naturally think that you don't know what the word means and that something went amiss in your argument.

You cannot expect people to read your mind and you cannot expect words to take on different definitions based on your intended meaning. People will take the comments at face value and there's nothing wrong with that.

That's why accurate word usage is vital.

the wii is the worst console of the bunch blackice1983

Wow, what a fully detailed, descriptive and informative post...

[QUOTE="poster"]

how are they an improvement? I explained how this is not the case using a snowboarding game and the ninja gaiden game as examples.

Stabby2486

I'll give you the snowboarding game, I don't think 1 : 1 would work for that. But it's not hard to move a Wii-mote like you would with a sword.

that depends on the developers idea. I suppose if you limit the interaction to something possible like a forward jab, single slash across etc then sure. but it is impossible to have 1:1 controls for the arsenal of moves Ryu Hayabusa does. well if you can do those moves in the first place then there'll be no need for you to repeat them in a video game.my point is that wii games cannot have just 1:1 controls! It has to have preset guestures! which breaks the whole point of the wii idea! also such presets are even more efficiently executed by the press of a button. so can you see the flaw? can you see why I think it's a good idea for nintendo to give the wiimote and a decent controller as options?

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]thanks for the tip homie! I'll make sure to keep a dictionary with me next time I write stuff :) but like I said the connotations I implied in the word revolution should be clear once you read my topic comment.Tragic_Kingdom7

My point was that you can hardly fault people for reading your argument a certain way. When they read the thread title, they're thinking, "OK, this guy thinks the Wii is a revolution." Then they'll read your justifications and think, "These premises don't support the conclusion." So they naturally think that you don't know what the word means and that something went amiss in your argument.

You cannot expect people to read your mind and you cannot expect words to take on different definitions based on your intended meaning. People will take the comments at face value and there's nothing wrong with that.

That's why accurate word usage is vital.

yes but we are not talking about science here. connotations are used widely, and perhaps I should appreciate your seriousness regarding the points, and be more careful with my words. yes revolution can be good or bad and means a change. but when you say your product is a revolution you automatically assume it's a good revolution. that there's a change for the good! I was following such assumptions inmy title. but what should I do now? shoud I change the word to evolution then? I've already changed the title once so changing again would seriously make this topic a joke.

that depends on the developers idea. I suppose if you limit the interaction to something possible like a forward jab, single slash across etc then sure. but it is impossible to have 1:1 controls for the arsenal of moves Ryu Hayabusa does. well if you can do those moves in the first place then there'll be no need for you to repeat them in a video game.my point is that wii games cannot have just 1:1 controls! It has to have preset guestures! which breaks the whole point of the wii idea! also such presets are even more efficiently executed by the press of a button. so can you see the flaw? can you see why I think it's a good idea for nintendo to give the wiimote and a decent controller as options?

poster

Preset attacks are eventually limited by the buttons on a keyboard or controller, with 1 : 1 there's so much more you can do.

i have issue with what your saying tc. "Next gen" aside, I know what you mean by it, and everyone here knows what you mean.

What I dont like is that you think that the wii isn't a revolution because it doesn't improve anything. It just does controls in a different way. If anything, controlling a game in a different way is a revolution, at least compared to the incremental increases in the same forumula that the ps3, 360, and pc have done. The evidence is in the effect. Right now the market leader is winning for a totally different reason than consoles have won in the past (other than price, but seriously, how much of the wii's success is due to price? Not much imho)

yes but we are not talking about science here. connotations are used widely, and perhaps I should appreciate your seriousness regarding the points, and be more careful with my words. yes revolution can be good or bad and means a change. but when you say your product is a revolution you automatically assume it's a good revolution. that there's a change for the good! I was following such assumptions inmy title. but what should I do now? shoud I change the word to evolution then? I've already changed the title once so changing again would seriously make this topic a joke.Great_Ragnarok

It would only make it a joke to immature people.

To people that are really coming into your topic with an open mind, changing the topic title would make your argument more fluid and it would also make people more prone to agree with you.

Your argument certainly makes more sense to me (although I don't agree with all of it) now that you've explained that you mean evolution instead of revolution.

But it's really your call if you change it or not.

*yawn* i don't know about anyone else, but i play games. and if the game is good, i don't care what system its on.clone01

I hate it when people judge any console like this. How about we wait and see in around 3-4 years? Sound good?

[QUOTE="poster"]

that depends on the developers idea. I suppose if you limit the interaction to something possible like a forward jab, single slash across etc then sure. but it is impossible to have 1:1 controls for the arsenal of moves Ryu Hayabusa does. well if you can do those moves in the first place then there'll be no need for you to repeat them in a video game.my point is that wii games cannot have just 1:1 controls! It has to have preset guestures! which breaks the whole point of the wii idea! also such presets are even more efficiently executed by the press of a button. so can you see the flaw? can you see why I think it's a good idea for nintendo to give the wiimote and a decent controller as options?

Stabby2486

Preset attacks are eventually limited by the buttons on a keyboard or controller, with 1 : 1 there's so much more you can do.

have u seen the number of buttons on a keyboard? also many games use combinations of buttons in controllers. and I just explained how 1:1 is limited. and how to solve the limitation you need preset wiimote controls. like a swirl meaning something and quick flick up meaning another etc. my point is that such presets brake the purpose on which the Wii is based on. the wii is based on 1:1 immersion. as in your character does exactly what you do! so when resorting to preset commands, you break from that immersion and move on to the type of immersion provided by keyboards/controllers. despite the wiimote achieveing this oddly and ineffcientl, a lot of thinking could get rid of many possible frustrations and flaws. but limitations exist in areas that didn't exist before the wii. this is why they need a controller as well. with a controller you now have choice. is there anything wrong with that?

i have issue with what your saying tc. "Next gen" aside, I know what you mean by it, and everyone here knows what you mean.

What I dont like is that you think that the wii isn't a revolution because it doesn't improve anything. It just does controls in a different way. If anything, controlling a game in a different way is a revolution, at least compared to the incremental increases in the same forumula that the ps3, 360, and pc have done. The evidence is in the effect. Right now the market leader is winning for a totally different reason than consoles have won in the past (other than price, but seriously, how much of the wii's success is due to price? Not much imho)

GunSmith1_basic

I don't think I said it didn't improve anything. I think I said exactly what aspects it didn't improve, such as hardware and control/interactive possibilities anything else I can't comment on. imo true evolution/revolution lies in what/how you map actions to controls! The wii puts needless emphasis on controls when the focus is the interaction with the virtual world.

I hate it when people judge any console like this. How about we wait and see in around 3-4 years? Sound good?

SMR-Venom

why do you hate it? It's a console and should be discussed.besides if you hate it then why are you in sys wars? people come here to compare and discuss.

I'm sorry tc but you seem to be one of the many people who are saying that people are drawn into the wii from a false promise of immersion. That's just one more cop out for being able to say that the wii has nothing to offer.

That claim is obviously false. The wii's main source of promotion/ advertisement is word of mouth. (ie unpaid, unbiased individuals). If the wii really was an empty promise then wouldn't word of mouth be its greatest enemy, like how word of mouth has crippled the 360??

There is obviously something special about the wii. Imo, motion controls are the revolution, and the IR pointer is the evolution. The IR pointer alone has outclassed the other consoles in at least that regard.

[QUOTE="clone01"]*yawn* i don't know about anyone else, but i play games. and if the game is good, i don't care what system its on.murat8

some people are just preocupied with image...

have u seen the number of buttons on a keyboard? also many games use combinations of buttons in controllers. and I just explained how 1:1 is limited. and how to solve the limitation you need preset wiimote controls. like a swirl meaning something and quick flick up meaning another etc. my point is that such presets brake the purpose on which the Wii is based on. the wii is based on 1:1 immersion. as in your character does exactly what you do! so when resorting to preset commands, you break from that immersion and move on to the type of immersion provided by keyboards/controllers. despite the wiimote achieveing this oddly and ineffcientl, a lot of thinking could get rid of many possible frustrations and flaws. but limitations exist in areas that didn't exist before the wii. this is why they need a controller as well. with a controller you now have choice. is there anything wrong with that?

poster

Yes. Buttons simply can't have has many functions mapped to them as 1 : 1.

I'm sorry tc but you seem to be one of the many people who are saying that people are drawn into the wii from a false promise of immersion. That's just one more cop out for being able to say that the wii has nothing to offer.

That claim is obviously false. The wii's main source of promotion/ advertisement is word of mouth. (ie unpaid, unbiased individuals). If the wii really was an empty promise then wouldn't word of mouth be its greatest enemy, like how word of mouth has crippled the 360??

There is obviously something special about the wii. Imo, motion controls are the revolution, and the IR pointer is the evolution. The IR pointer alone has outclassed the other consoles in at least that regard.

GunSmith1_basic

Edit: confused the thread and replied to wrong statement.

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]

I'm sorry tc but you seem to be one of the many people who are saying that people are drawn into the wii from a false promise of immersion. That's just one more cop out for being able to say that the wii has nothing to offer.

That claim is obviously false. The wii's main source of promotion/ advertisement is word of mouth. (ie unpaid, unbiased individuals). If the wii really was an empty promise then wouldn't word of mouth be its greatest enemy, like how word of mouth has crippled the 360??

There is obviously something special about the wii. Imo, motion controls are the revolution, and the IR pointer is the evolution. The IR pointer alone has outclassed the other consoles in at least that regard.

Tragic_Kingdom7

Where do you get this from? I never said anything close to that. Produce the quote or retract your statement.

Why would I be of that opinion when I said that Super Mario Galaxy has FANTASTIC atmosphere and when I've been defending the Wii all day in another thread?

[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"][QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]

I'm sorry tc but you seem to be one of the many people who are saying that people are drawn into the wii from a false promise of immersion. That's just one more cop out for being able to say that the wii has nothing to offer.

That claim is obviously false. The wii's main source of promotion/ advertisement is word of mouth. (ie unpaid, unbiased individuals). If the wii really was an empty promise then wouldn't word of mouth be its greatest enemy, like how word of mouth has crippled the 360??

There is obviously something special about the wii. Imo, motion controls are the revolution, and the IR pointer is the evolution. The IR pointer alone has outclassed the other consoles in at least that regard.

air_wolf_cubed

Where do you get this from? I never said anything close to that. Produce the quote or retract your statement.

Why would I be of that opinion when I said that Super Mario Galaxy has FANTASTIC atmosphere and when I've been defending the Wii all day in another thread?

I realize that. I apologize to the poster I responded to. I mixed up the threads. It was an accident.

[QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"]

That last line is fallicious, because a different direction is basically the definition of revolution.

Great_Ragnarok

not necessarily. walking back the way you came isn't revolutionary is it? but yeah I think the wii is more a translation than a revolution. a translation of our gaming experiences to a new audience. but in that case they should have both options available.

"Wii isnt next gen"

Real original right ? :lol:

Gh0st_Of_0nyx

huh? :(

Well, 1:1 mapping is not going to be used in the best games. The best games will have a bunch of preset animations, and using a recording technology for the Wii for certain actions, the closest animation to that movement will play. 1:1 mapping is just rediculous and jerky, it's not going to be the future of the Wii that's for sure. The fact is, the Wii has already started a revolution wether you like it or not. Just look at the players the Wii has attracted, it has finally pushed games over into the mainstream. Sure it could be better, and a lot of companies are jumping on the casual bandwagon, but these are just the growing pains we have to go through before a balance comes. I just look back and think it's cool how I used to play games before they were considered cool. Things change, and I bet you next gen Microsoft and Sony will copy Wii while Nintendo has moved onto something new.

-Wheels-

buttons in controllers are like those preset animations, in fact it's even more efficient than that. they are just buttons. all the experience is about the game and the awesome ways you interact with it by the press of a button. also I don't understand what you mean by games not being mainstream??? games have been mainstream for many years now. I mean the most successful entertainment product is GTA4.am I right? well according to GS at least. and also why do you care whether someone thinks you are cool or not for playing games?? Its just entertainment.

Ok...you kind of twisted some things I said, let's stay on topic. Well, you can't really compare buttons to motion even with prescripted animations. The Wiimote can measure how far someone has moved the control, making each movement almost like every button is an analog that can have precise measures on how much they were pressed. Trying to play games with every button having to be pressed a certain amount would be a painfully awkward experience, therefore rendering your analogy completely useless. People just keep breaking down and simplifying things to make their argument stronger. It doesn't work like this. I'm having a hard time believing if you've even spent much time with a decent Wii game at all. Being a gamer for roughly 16 years, it was a pretty exhilerating experience playing Zelda for the first time on the Wii controls, and that game didn't really go out of its way to incorperate the Wii motion controls. The Wii has a long way to go, and I have a feeling it's just the warm-up round for Nintendo.

the wii is expanding the very definition of gaming and is expanding the gaming audience. It's helping the gaming industry to move forward. Once again it's Nintendo that sticks it neck out.

The others are just expanding sideways (bigger, better and all great, but no true change).

I'm sorry tc but you seem to be one of the many people who are saying that people are drawn into the wii from a false promise of immersion. That's just one more cop out for being able to say that the wii has nothing to offer.

That claim is obviously false. The wii's main source of promotion/ advertisement is word of mouth. (ie unpaid, unbiased individuals). If the wii really was an empty promise then wouldn't word of mouth be its greatest enemy, like how word of mouth has crippled the 360??

There is obviously something special about the wii. Imo, motion controls are the revolution, and the IR pointer is the evolution. The IR pointer alone has outclassed the other consoles in at least that regard.

GunSmith1_basic

huh? what? don't be sorry! false promises refer to what Nintendo promised, to deliver which was 1:1 immersion. and this point was covered on my topic comment. I didn't refer to any sort of advertisement. I'mnot sure how you related the two.

some people are just preocupied with image...

Always-Honest

well many are but I'm concerned with the ones on gaming.graphics inculde everything that you see in a game. i.e the potential world to be immersed in!

Yes. Buttons simply can't have has many functions mapped to them as 1 : 1.

Stabby2486

so you are saying the 97 different keys in my keyboard and 8-12 buttons in my controller aren't enough for gaming. boy I hope you become a developer. your visisions seem unbelivable! I suppose the wii could have more than 97 preset gestures as functions, but such a game would be unbelievably ridiculous and unplayable. don't ask why?its pretty obvious.

Was the Light Bulb an Improvment from the Candle? It was simply a waaaay more expensive way too generate light.. Thus I would say it is a step back, if you only go by the initial differences..

The Wiimote might prove too make gameplay better later on.. Also people tend too be careful about changes, eventhough the Wiimote is better then a standard controller they will not realize it for quite some time.

well many are but I'm concerned with the ones on gaming.graphics inculde everything that you see in a game. i.e the potential world to be immersed in!

Great_Ragnarok

yeah, i'm quite the graphics slut... i would love the Wii to have better graphics and in HD...

so you are saying the 97 different keys in my keyboard and 8-12 buttons in my controller aren't enough for gaming. boy I hope you become a developer. your visisions seem unbelivable! I suppose the wii could have more than 97 preset gestures as functions, but such a game would be unbelievably ridiculous and unplayable. don't ask why?its pretty obvious.

poster

I never said that.

And go find something in your house that resembles a sword. Anything, it can be a broom, do as many motions as possible. And find a button combination or button press for all of them. Make sure that it isn't clunky and make sure it doesn't use up buttons for movement or looking or takes your fingers off them (WASD keys, mouse, analog sticks). Seriously, try it. And 1 : 1 isn't supposed to use preset gestures.