The wii is not an evolution!

Ok...you kind of twisted some things I said, let's stay on topic. Well, you can't really compare buttons to motion even with prescripted animations. The Wiimote can measure how far someone has moved the control, making each movement almost like every button is an analog that can have precise measures on how much they were pressed. Trying to play games with every button having to be pressed a certain amount would be a painfully awkward experience, therefore rendering your analogy completely useless. People just keep breaking down and simplifying things to make their argument stronger. It doesn't work like this. I'm having a hard time believing if you've even spent much time with a decent Wii game at all. Being a gamer for roughly 16 years, it was a pretty exhilerating experience playing Zelda for the first time on the Wii controls, and that game didn't really go out of its way to incorperate the Wii motion controls. The Wii has a long way to go, and I have a feeling it's just the warm-up round for Nintendo.

-Wheels-

Perhaps I probably should play more wii games but my analogy still stands firmly. which was that 1:1 immersion is very flawed and how wii games require preset motions. which you agree with. but now you are saying to replace a wii preset that I must press all the buttons??? I don't see why you had such a jump in logic? have u not seen games like VF5 and tekken. those games have very in depth combat engines yet none of them required you to press every button in the control.

each button has an interaction. a combination results in a combination of interactions. however in a wii such interactions can be very limited. a quick RP LP RK LK follwed by say down forward LP would be incredibly difficult when executing via Wiimote presets. jeez after a single game the wiimote will leave you exhausted!! btw If you enjoy this sytem then please don't mistake this as a bash thread. I'm simply making points on how the wii comapre against alternatives. btw remember that the biggest attraction of Wii is the 1:1 motion control which is one of the things my points are based on!

the wii is expanding the very definition of gaming and is expanding the gaming audience. It's helping the gaming industry to move forward. Once again it's Nintendo that sticks it neck out.

The others are just expanding sideways (bigger, better and all great, but no true change).

Always-Honest

well it's certainly different, but is that a good thing. and those diferences especialy the motion control was explained in my Topic comment. and there I used examples showing how it's limited. in fact limitations not found in the previous generation! thing is all this control problems can simply be solved by having options available. why can't nintendo do what they did to SSBB? if you want wiimote then chose that but if you want a GC controller then let the player use it. theres no point pretending that the flaws don't exist!

why can't nintendo do what they did to SSBB?

Great_Ragnarok

that was the game with the least possible evolution... it's a game for the fans.

Was the Light Bulb an Improvment from the Candle? It was simply a waaaay more expensive way too generate light.. Thus I would say it is a step back, if you only go by the initial differences..

The Wiimote might prove too make gameplay better later on.. Also people tend too be careful about changes, eventhough the Wiimote is better then a standard controller they will not realize it for quite some time.

omgimba

please do not compare the great light bulb with a console! Its just sad. there are better analogies.anyway In my original comment I explained carefully where 1:1 immersion fails. please read that comment first/

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

well many are but I'm concerned with the ones on gaming.graphics inculde everything that you see in a game. i.e the potential world to be immersed in!

Always-Honest

yeah, i'm quite the graphics slut... i would love the Wii to have better graphics and in HD...

wow I didn't say that. but if you claim yourself to be one then why did you purchase the wii in the first place??

[QUOTE="poster"]

so you are saying the 97 different keys in my keyboard and 8-12 buttons in my controller aren't enough for gaming. boy I hope you become a developer. your visisions seem unbelivable! I suppose the wii could have more than 97 preset gestures as functions, but such a game would be unbelievably ridiculous and unplayable. don't ask why?its pretty obvious.

Stabby2486

I never said that.

And go find something in your house that resembles a sword. Anything, it can be a broom, do as many motions as possible. And find a button combination or button press for all of them. Make sure that it isn't clunky and make sure it doesn't use up buttons for movement or looking or takes your fingers off them (WASD keys, mouse, analog sticks). Seriously, try it. And 1 : 1 isn't supposed to use preset gestures.

have you never played games on a controller before???? play Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry and you'll realise that they are not clunky etc. each button does an action not half an action. so yes implementing one sword slash to all buttons in the controller where the action is performed to varying degree is possible. but it is possibly the stupidest application of control!! gaming in controls work with each button doing something different. like jump, strong attack, and short attack,block etc etc.

btw glad you agree that 1:1 isn't supposed to use preset gestures! :) that is one of the foundations formy argument! and that is what was promised and that is what wasn't delivered!! do you see my point now?

[QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="Tragic_Kingdom7"][QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]

I'm sorry tc but you seem to be one of the many people who are saying that people are drawn into the wii from a false promise of immersion. That's just one more cop out for being able to say that the wii has nothing to offer.

That claim is obviously false. The wii's main source of promotion/ advertisement is word of mouth. (ie unpaid, unbiased individuals). If the wii really was an empty promise then wouldn't word of mouth be its greatest enemy, like how word of mouth has crippled the 360??

There is obviously something special about the wii. Imo, motion controls are the revolution, and the IR pointer is the evolution. The IR pointer alone has outclassed the other consoles in at least that regard.

Tragic_Kingdom7

Where do you get this from? I never said anything close to that. Produce the quote or retract your statement.

Why would I be of that opinion when I said that Super Mario Galaxy has FANTASTIC atmosphere and when I've been defending the Wii all day in another thread?

I realize that. I apologize to the poster I responded to. I mixed up the threads. It was an accident.

How is it not an evolution? It's better than teh gamecube, which preceeded it, so theoretically it "evolved"blingchu55

I'm not interested in proving something by being pedantic with words. I've clearly explained why It hasn't evolved. so please read that comment.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

why can't nintendo do what they did to SSBB?

Always-Honest

that was the game with the least possible evolution... it's a game for the fans.

erm what? one of Nintendo's best games is the least evolved? well what does that say about their 1:1 immersion then?? also did you watch the GS tournament? all the finalists used GC controllers! why is that?

no its not, the PS3 and 360 are evolutions of their predecessors....they follow the natural order of things. what they were going to be overall was predictable.

the wii is a revolution.....its done something completly different. it hasnt followed the natural order of console development...it has gone off on a completly different tangent. during the middle of the GCs life, no one would have predicted it. whether thats a good thing is very debateable (personally i think its fantastic)....but thats what its done.

There are a lot of SUPER fanboys here in SW, and its easy to throw labels around. What I will say is that you bring up some interesting points, TC, and I agree with some of them.

What the Wii does present to the world, is a new way of thinking, and that's what some of the excitement is about, but overall, it is tragic Nintendo opted to get out of the Graphics/Ai race. The Wii combined with current gen graphical capabilities really would have been something to see in the console world.

THen again, there always the expensive but great option, PC.

[QUOTE="-Wheels-"]

Ok...you kind of twisted some things I said, let's stay on topic. Well, you can't really compare buttons to motion even with prescripted animations. The Wiimote can measure how far someone has moved the control, making each movement almost like every button is an analog that can have precise measures on how much they were pressed. Trying to play games with every button having to be pressed a certain amount would be a painfully awkward experience, therefore rendering your analogy completely useless. People just keep breaking down and simplifying things to make their argument stronger. It doesn't work like this. I'm having a hard time believing if you've even spent much time with a decent Wii game at all. Being a gamer for roughly 16 years, it was a pretty exhilerating experience playing Zelda for the first time on the Wii controls, and that game didn't really go out of its way to incorperate the Wii motion controls. The Wii has a long way to go, and I have a feeling it's just the warm-up round for Nintendo.

Great_Ragnarok

Perhaps I probably should play more wii games but my analogy still stands firmly. which was that 1:1 immersion is very flawed and how wii games require preset motions. which you agree with. but now you are saying to replace a wii preset that I must press all the buttons??? I don't see why you had such a jump in logic? have u not seen games like VF5 and tekken. those games have very in depth combat engines yet none of them required you to press every button in the control.

each button has an interaction. a combination results in a combination of interactions. however in a wii such interactions can be very limited. a quick RP LP RK LK follwed by say down forward LP would be incredibly difficult when executing via Wiimote presets. jeez after a single game the wiimote will leave you exhausted!! btw If you enjoy this sytem then please don't mistake this as a bash thread. I'm simply making points on how the wii comapre against alternatives. btw remember that the biggest attraction of Wii is the 1:1 motion control which is one of the things my points are based on!

the wii is expanding the very definition of gaming and is expanding the gaming audience. It's helping the gaming industry to move forward. Once again it's Nintendo that sticks it neck out.

The others are just expanding sideways (bigger, better and all great, but no true change).

Always-Honest

well it's certainly different, but is that a good thing. and those diferences especialy the motion control was explained in my Topic comment. and there I used examples showing how it's limited. in fact limitations not found in the previous generation! thing is all this control problems can simply be solved by having options available. why can't nintendo do what they did to SSBB? if you want wiimote then chose that but if you want a GC controller then let the player use it. theres no point pretending that the flaws don't exist!

Well, in terms of "efficiency" I do understand what you are saying. It is easier to just push buttons, I couldn't imagine a player using buttons losing against a motion control player. So for fast complex button inputs, it's obvious that buttons will be faster for that. What Nintendo has substantially done with the Wii, and the DS, is get developers to think in a different mindset. This is what is exciting. For the first time, developers are starting to think of how they can physically connect players closer to what's happening on screen. In Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, some of the most memorable moments were the ones where I actually interacted with the game. Things like blowing into the DS to blow out candles in the game, yelling into the DS to get someones attention on the other side of a wall, actually slashing the screen with my stylus. The Wii hasn't quite captured that same level of interaction, but it is getting there. I don't know about you, but pushing a button just doesn't feel like I'm doing anything anymore. It's been too long, the industry needs a change. If the Wii had the same graphics as the 360 and PS3, there is no doubt in my mind that this wouldn't be an argument today. Now that Nintendo has tested the waters, they have this potential to completely immerse players physically, and not just graphically. That is why I support the Wii and what it represents. It's that next step that Microsoft and Sony were not willing to take first.

I just want to get this clear. I am not saying that the Wii is completely immersive and is amazing, because let's face it, flicking your wrist is not that immersive. What I am saying is this, the Wii is the wake up call that developers needed. The type of wakeup call that could completely change all future generations of gaming from here on out. And that I respect greatly. Of the 3 consoles for this generation, the Wii presents the biggest evolution of them all; even though it isn't a huge evolution, it is still leaps and bounds more than its competitors improvements.

Your comparing it to the 360 and the ps3, and they came out at teh same time. of course it isn't evolved from them

have you never played games on a controller before???? play Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry and you'll realise that they are not clunky etc. each button does an action not half an action. so yes implementing one sword slash to all buttons in the controller where the action is performed to varying degree is possible. but it is possibly the stupidest application of control!! gaming in controls work with each button doing something different. like jump, strong attack, and short attack,block etc etc.

btw glad you agree that 1:1 isn't supposed to use preset gestures! :) that is one of the foundations formy argument! and that is what was promised and that is what wasn't delivered!! do you see my point now?

poster

For every motion with a sword Ryu or Dante performs in their games, I do can 10 more in real life. 1 : 1 allows for much more than a controllers, plain and simple.

erm what? one of Nintendo's best games is the least evolved? well what does that say about their 1:1 immersion then?? also did you watch the GS tournament? all the finalists used GC controllers! why is that?

poster

1 : 1 doesn't work for fighters, since the characters use every part of their body.

wow I didn't say that. but if you claim yourself to be one then why did you purchase the wii in the first place??

Great_Ragnarok

because i'm a even bigger gameplay slut. gameplay > graphics .

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

wow I didn't say that. but if you claim yourself to be one then why did you purchase the wii in the first place??

Always-Honest

because i'm a even bigger gameplay slut. gameplay > graphics .

Omg lmao :lol: comedy

erm what? one of Nintendo's best games is the least evolved? well what does that say about their 1:1 immersion then?? also did you watch the GS tournament? all the finalists used GC controllers! why is that?

Great_Ragnarok

because that game is better with button presses... again, that game iswas for the fans.. a small sideways evolution of a last gen game. good game none the less.

Well, in terms of "efficiency" I do understand what you are saying. It is easier to just push buttons, I couldn't imagine a player using buttons losing against a motion control player. So for fast complex button inputs, it's obvious that buttons will be faster for that. What Nintendo has substantially done with the Wii, and the DS, is get developers to think in a different mindset. This is what is exciting. For the first time, developers are starting to think of how they can physically connect players closer to what's happening on screen. In Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, some of the most memorable moments were the ones where I actually interacted with the game. Things like blowing into the DS to blow out candles in the game, yelling into the DS to get someones attention on the other side of a wall, actually slashing the screen with my stylus. The Wii hasn't quite captured that same level of interaction, but it is getting there. I don't know about you, but pushing a button just doesn't feel like I'm doing anything anymore. It's been too long, the industry needs a change. If the Wii had the same graphics as the 360 and PS3, there is no doubt in my mind that this wouldn't be an argument today. Now that Nintendo has tested the waters, they have this potential to completely immerse players physically, and not just graphically. That is why I support the Wii and what it represents. It's that next step that Microsoft and Sony were not willing to take first.

I just want to get this clear. I am not saying that the Wii is completely immersive and is amazing, because let's face it, flicking your wrist is not that immersive. What I am saying is this, the Wii is the wake up call that developers needed. The type of wakeup call that could completely change all future generations of gaming from here on out. And that I respect greatly. Of the 3 consoles for this generation, the Wii presents the biggest evolution of them all; even though it isn't a huge evolution, it is still leaps and bounds more than its competitors improvements.

-Wheels-

I disagree completely. sorry to be rude. but dictating what is good and what is bad is not a wakeup call for creativity. Nintendo has created problems that didn't exist and claim solutions for them. very cunning indeed. anyway what's amazing about a video game is the interaction with the virutual world. the controls are sublime. This is where our disagreement begins. Nintendo claims that the content of the interaction is shallow/boring and claims that controls are responsible for this! that is poor logic. it's the content(the software) where revolution and evolution lies in! not in the controls!

also I don't know about you but blowing candles off and shouting at people are very mundane activities. anyway you admit weaknesses in the wiimote in which the controller has advantages. those are weakness not present in the GC controller! it's on such basis that I claim evolution hasn't occured with the Wii. also on the basis that it hasn't improved significantly on hardware.

Basically agree with the topic starter a 100%. But did you ever wonder the real reason Nintendo changed the name from Revolution to Wii? It's because they couldn't believe their own lie. They know the Wii isn't really revolutionary, but look at the sales figures for their last two consoles. Did they make a profit? Yes. Were they on top in terms of quantity sold? No. So to maximize profits, they hit where it really hurts, and built a console that parents will be satisfied buying for their children. Sure, the Wii has a number of hardcore fans who are older than twelve, and who can buy the console on their own; however, most of their sales are coming from parents buying something they can afford for their kids.

It's not revolutionary, it's just a different direction to go in, and it's payed off at the bank.

chimpiki

I dispute everything you say, but the bolded part is something I can give you solid facts for that you can't possibly argue with no matter how desperate you are.

First of all, the name wasn't changed, Wii translates to "Overthrow the gods". Secondly, the name Revolution was already copyrighted, and an internet search looking for Revolution would bring up a lot of sites that had nothing to do whatsoever with Nintendo's system. Lastly, the word itself has significant meaning in both English and modern Japanese. Wii, of course, sounds like "we", which gives a sense of togetherness. As for Japanese, the Japanese word for happiness is "ii", prounounced "ee".

There, now doesn't solid fact sound so much better than fanboy ravings?

[QUOTE="blingchu55"]How is it not an evolution? It's better than teh gamecube, which preceeded it, so theoretically it "evolved"Great_Ragnarok

I'm not interested in proving something by being pedantic with words. I've clearly explained why It hasn't evolved. so please read that comment.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

why can't nintendo do what they did to SSBB?

Always-Honest

that was the game with the least possible evolution... it's a game for the fans.

erm what? one of Nintendo's best games is the least evolved? well what does that say about their 1:1 immersion then?? also did you watch the GS tournament? all the finalists used GC controllers! why is that?

Because they were able to use GC controllers, and they work so much better.

On the other hand, in a game like Trauma Center, Metroid Prime, or Endless Ocean you'd be nuts to want a traditional contoller. Sure you can argue that traditional controls work better, but only in some games. The Wii-mote is almost as good as Mouse&Keyboard for FPSs, can easily do RTS, a genre that has always challenged consoles, and is just as profficient as traditional in many genres such as sports or racing.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

wow I didn't say that. but if you claim yourself to be one then why did you purchase the wii in the first place??

Always-Honest

because i'm a even bigger gameplay slut. gameplay > graphics .

oh man don't be so harsh on yourself! and indeed if you were as you say you are then you'll realise the wiimote is horribly flawed for gameplay!!

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

erm what? one of Nintendo's best games is the least evolved? well what does that say about their 1:1 immersion then?? also did you watch the GS tournament? all the finalists used GC controllers! why is that?

Always-Honest

because that game is better with button presses... again, that game iswas for the fans.. a small sideways evolution of a last gen game. good game none the less.

hmm strange Nintendo makes a wiimote yet creates a game where their previous controller is far better at! gee I wonder why! perhaps my topic comment on wiimote limitations have something to do with it.

[QUOTE="poster"]

erm what? one of Nintendo's best games is the least evolved? well what does that say about their 1:1 immersion then?? also did you watch the GS tournament? all the finalists used GC controllers! why is that?

Stabby2486

1 : 1 doesn't work for fighters, since the characters use every part of their body.

oh awesome. you are starting to see my reason behind my claims for the flaws of 1:1 mapping. and you should see how to overcome this problem they have to comeup with preset motions that are not 1:1mapping!

For every motion with a sword Ryu or Dante performs in their games, I do can 10 more in real life. 1 : 1 allows for much more than a controllers, plain and simple.

Stabby2486

what?? Im sorry WHAAAAAT! did you just say you can mimich Ryu and Dante??? are u serious? or are u saying while Ryu has a button for strong attack and a weak attack. where as you have control on the angle and ferocity of the attack?? if so then yes thats true. but this goes back to my wii ski arugement. regarding mundane activities!I already know you can have your character mapped to your motion. my point was you cannot engage in the moves Ryu does by 1:1 mapping/ it requires preset motions.

if you don't know who Ryu is imagine a ninja swinging a sword faster than you while doing it longer than any human could possibly do. I'm just amazed you don;t see my point. oh maybe I misunderstood you...

all I can say is...

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

[QUOTE="blingchu55"]How is it not an evolution? It's better than teh gamecube, which preceeded it, so theoretically it "evolved"Tylendal

I'm not interested in proving something by being pedantic with words. I've clearly explained why It hasn't evolved. so please read that comment.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

why can't nintendo do what they did to SSBB?

Always-Honest

that was the game with the least possible evolution... it's a game for the fans.

erm what? one of Nintendo's best games is the least evolved? well what does that say about their 1:1 immersion then?? also did you watch the GS tournament? all the finalists used GC controllers! why is that?

Because they were able to use GC controllers, and they work so much better.

On the other hand, in a game like Trauma Center, Metroid Prime, or Endless Ocean you'd be nuts to want a traditional contoller. Sure you can argue that traditional controls work better, but only in some games. The Wii-mote is almost as good as Mouse&Keyboard for FPSs, can easily do RTS, a genre that has always challenged consoles, and is just as profficient as traditional in many genres such as sports or racing.

actually the RTS controls have been cleverly implemented to the console controllers.ofcourse no where near as efficient as keyboard and mouse. and don't kid yourself the wiimote doesn't even come close to the ease, comfort,effciency and convienience of a Keyboard/mouse!! and as for your point on MP I think is debatable. games like Halo have been very well implemented on the controller.

hmm strange Nintendo makes a wiimote yet creates a game where their previous controller is far better at! gee I wonder why! perhaps my topic comment on wiimote limitations have something to do with it.

Great_Ragnarok

We also know that their previous controller would have been way better for MP3, Wario Ware, Trauma Center, and No More Heroes. On top of that, Nintendo should never try an RTS game, or an FPS game, because traditional controllers are so good at those genres :roll:

actually the RTS controls have been cleverly implemented to the console controllers.ofcourse no where near as efficient as keyboard and mouse. and don't kid yourself the wiimote doesn't even come close to the ease, comfort,effciency and convienience of a Keyboard/mouse!! and as for your point on MP I think is debatable. games like Halo have been very well implemented on the controller.

Great_Ragnarok

So, for the record you're saying that duel-analog is superior to the Wii-mote for the FPS genre?

Hum...wrong door

*goes back to play MKWii*

oh man don't be so harsh on yourself! and indeed if you were as you say you are then you'll realise the wiimote is horribly flawed for gameplay!!

Great_Ragnarok

no it isn't, it's great for some games, and less suited for others. have you played lost winds, metroid 3, Boom blox, wiifit, wiisports?

your problem is not the wii, it's in yourself

The wii is not a evolution! No, it's a revolution!-CheeseEater-

that was the first title.. h dited it.. next will be :"the wii isn't a machine"

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

hmm strange Nintendo makes a wiimote yet creates a game where their previous controller is far better at! gee I wonder why! perhaps my topic comment on wiimote limitations have something to do with it.

Tylendal

We also know that their previous controller would have been way better for MP3, Wario Ware, Trauma Center, and No More Heroes. On top of that, Nintendo should never try an RTS game, or an FPS game, because traditional controllers are so good at those genres :roll:

erm in your previous comment you admited how its weak for fighting games, you must have heard of halo, games like battle for middle earth was surprisingly well implemented on to the controller. I can't comment on trauma center tho.Ive never played it. and no more heroes could easily be taken to the controller.infact could possibly give it far more depth than the wii version. oh right ill insert roll here :roll:

The wii is not a evolution! No, it's a revolution!-CheeseEater-

a bad one it seems. at this stage at least.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

hmm strange Nintendo makes a wiimote yet creates a game where their previous controller is far better at! gee I wonder why! perhaps my topic comment on wiimote limitations have something to do with it.

Great_Ragnarok

We also know that their previous controller would have been way better for MP3, Wario Ware, Trauma Center, and No More Heroes. On top of that, Nintendo should never try an RTS game, or an FPS game, because traditional controllers are so good at those genres :roll:

erm in your previous comment you admited how its weak for fighting games, you must have heard of halo, games like battle for middle earth was surprisingly well implemented on to the controller. I can't comment on trauma center tho.Ive never played it. and no more heroes could easily be taken to the controller.infact could possibly give it far more depth than the wii version. oh right ill insert roll here :roll:

The wii is not a evolution! No, it's a revolution!-CheeseEater-

a bad one it seems. at this stage at least.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

hmm strange Nintendo makes a wiimote yet creates a game where their previous controller is far better at! gee I wonder why! perhaps my topic comment on wiimote limitations have something to do with it.

Great_Ragnarok

We also know that their previous controller would have been way better for MP3, Wario Ware, Trauma Center, and No More Heroes. On top of that, Nintendo should never try an RTS game, or an FPS game, because traditional controllers are so good at those genres :roll:

erm in your previous comment you admited how its weak for fighting games well yeah, I'm pointing out that it can't do everything, but no control scheme can, you must have heard of halo yes, are you saying that it controls as well as on PC?, games like battle for middle earth was surprisingly well implemented on to the controller that was on console? still, wasn't nearly as good as what they Wii could do with RTS, or what the PC can do.. I can't comment on trauma center tho.Ive never played it Unplayable with a traditional control scheme, and would only be mediocre with a mouse. and no more heroes could easily be taken to the controller.infact could possibly give it far more depth than the wii version I don't see how a traditional controller could have worked any better. I'm not saying it couldn't be done on a traditional controller, I'm simply saying how it was done just as well with the Wii-mote.. oh right ill insert roll here :roll:

Could you please try to make it a little more clear what you're referring to with you're responses. Phrases like "you must have heard of halo" are painfully ambiguous.

what?? Im sorry WHAAAAAT! did you just say you can mimich Ryu and Dante??? are u serious? or are u saying while Ryu has a button for strong attack and a weak attack. where as you have control on the angle and ferocity of the attack?? if so then yes thats true. but this goes back to my wii ski arugement. regarding mundane activities!I already know you can have your character mapped to your motion. my point was you cannot engage in the moves Ryu does by 1:1 mapping/ it requires preset motions.

if you don't know who Ryu is imagine a ninja swinging a sword faster than you while doing it longer than any human could possibly do. I'm just amazed you don;t see my point. oh maybe I misunderstood you...

poster

Yes. And do you need to do what Ryu does? It's not like someone who would develop a game built around 1 : 1 sword fighting would hold you up to Ryu's skill and strength

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

actually the RTS controls have been cleverly implemented to the console controllers.ofcourse no where near as efficient as keyboard and mouse. and don't kid yourself the wiimote doesn't even come close to the ease, comfort,effciency and convienience of a Keyboard/mouse!! and as for your point on MP I think is debatable. games like Halo have been very well implemented on the controller.

Tylendal

So, for the record you're saying that duel-analog is superior to the Wii-mote for the FPS genre?

not quite. Its a good idea but there's issues with it. can you play hours and hours of multiplayer lan on it? so there the issue is comfort and convienience! but as far as accuracy goes I admit it's better. however not every FPS has implemented this control well. however is this advantage justified when you comapre the abilities it loses. also when you consider the supriority of the keyboard and mouse.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

oh man don't be so harsh on yourself! and indeed if you were as you say you are then you'll realise the wiimote is horribly flawed for gameplay!!

Always-Honest

no it isn't, it's great for some games, and less suited for others. have you played lost winds, metroid 3, Boom blox, wiifit, wiisports?

your problem is not the wii, it's in yourself

wiifit and wiisports is god awful!!! its a nice warm up session for beginers to get used to the remote but other than that the game is terrible.I'mnot even going to comment on wiifit. Ive already done that at the start. having played many many fps games MP3 is quite average. Im not saying it's bad however. and please don't even mention boomblocks! why? spielberg why? hmmm and as for my problem is with myself, I must disagre. however I'm puzzled at your almost religious affection towarads nintendo. perhaps that is a more pressing matter?

[QUOTE="-CheeseEater-"]The wii is not a evolution! No, it's a revolution!Always-Honest

that was the first title.. h dited it.. next will be :"the wii isn't a machine"

if you botherd to follow this topic then you'll realise how a GS memeber pointed my flaw in using incorrect defintions. thats why I changed it. my justification hasn't changed at all.

i want old gamesGreat_Ragnarok

miss out all you want.

If the wii isn't a evelution, tell me is super mario galaxy worse than super mario sun shine, is Brawl worse than melee, are the graphfics worse than the gamecube? Have any of you even play a wii.wukepingu

Competitive players think so. Not saying Melee is better though, it comes down to preferences for Melee and Brawl.

oh god not the whole "the wii is going to kill gaming :cry:" drama crap again.Shinobishyguy

geez whats your problem? and I don;t see any drama. read the topic!

listen kid, it doesn't matter if you don't like the new things that are coming. don't worry. there will be lots of games with just a cosmetic change in the coming years. and by the time the new xbox or the pS4 comes out you'll be done with gaming anyway. you lost your inner child long ago. Always-Honest

are you saying you are schizophrenic? as far as I know there was always just a sense of me in my mind.

[QUOTE="poster"]

what?? Im sorry WHAAAAAT! did you just say you can mimich Ryu and Dante??? are u serious? or are u saying while Ryu has a button for strong attack and a weak attack. where as you have control on the angle and ferocity of the attack?? if so then yes thats true. but this goes back to my wii ski arugement. regarding mundane activities!I already know you can have your character mapped to your motion. my point was you cannot engage in the moves Ryu does by 1:1 mapping/ it requires preset motions.

if you don't know who Ryu is imagine a ninja swinging a sword faster than you while doing it longer than any human could possibly do. I'm just amazed you don;t see my point. oh maybe I misunderstood you...

Stabby2486

Yes. And do you need to do what Ryu does? It's not like someone who would develop a game built around 1 : 1 sword fighting would hold you up to Ryu's skill and strength

ok I'm really confused with your comments. I'll use an example. the move Izuna drop. Ryu jumps up and smashes the enemy to the ground. now are you saying that you can 1:1 map this move??? obviously not. you have to come up with preset motions for the wiimote. why is it so hard to understand that?

you should have left the topic title as it was.. ofCOURSE it's an evolution... no way you can defend it isn't.

ok I'm really confused with your comments. I'll use an example. the move Izuna drop. Ryu jumps up and smashes the enemy to the ground. now are you saying that you can 1:1 map this move??? obviously not. you have to come up with preset motions for the wiimote. why is it so hard to understand that?

poster

Does he need to do that to kill someone?

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]i want old gamesAlways-Honest

miss out all you want.

oh wow! you had to resort to quote mining! sad very sad...

If the wii isn't a evelution, tell me is super mario galaxy worse than super mario sun shine, is Brawl worse than melee, are the graphfics worse than the gamecube? Have any of you even play a wii.wukepingu

I didn't base my arguments based on individual games. I based that opinion on aspects of the console andits controller! please read the topic.

you should have left the topic title as it was.. ofCOURSE it's an evolution... no way you can defend it isn't.

Always-Honest

I have been defending it. based on particular arguments. what do u think I've been doing all this time??

[QUOTE="poster"]

ok I'm really confused with your comments. I'll use an example. the move Izuna drop. Ryu jumps up and smashes the enemy to the ground. now are you saying that you can 1:1 map this move??? obviously not. you have to come up with preset motions for the wiimote. why is it so hard to understand that?

Stabby2486

Does he need to do that to kill someone?

ZOMG WTH?? what sort of comment is that? The developer wanted that move to be there so ofcourse it's going to be there. and it adds immensely to gameplay. for starters it's an incredible move. gameplay wise it kills the enemy in one shot by having his head crushed. a lot faster than hacking the enemy. anyway that very statement you said should be enough for you to relaise the limitation!! must I keep telling you that it's impossible to mimic Ryu's moveset!

oh wow! you are right.. sorry that i wanted three the exact same consoles.. the wii is a breath of fresh air indeed. thanx.

Great_Ragnarok

no problem. and don't worry, you'll learn to use the wiimote faster than it took you to learn to use the dual analogue controller.

can you play hours and hours of multiplayer lan on it? Great_Ragnarok

Yes, why couldn't you?

ZOMG WTH?? what sort of comment is that? The developer wanted that move to be there so ofcourse it's going to be there. and it adds immensely to gameplay. for starters it's an incredible move. gameplay wise it kills the enemy in one shot by having his head crushed. a lot faster than hacking the enemy. anyway that very statement you said should be enough for you to relaise the limitation!! must I keep telling you that it's impossible to mimic Ryu's moveset!

poster

Well, if it adds to the gameplay I guess you're right on the NG example.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

oh wow! you are right.. sorry that i wanted three the exact same consoles.. the wii is a breath of fresh air indeed. thanx.

Always-Honest

no problem. and don't worry, you'll learn to use the wiimote faster than it took you to learn to use the dual analogue controller.

haha thats so sad! that you have to resort to such low tactics. heres what quote mining means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quote_mining

eventhough you completely fabricated my quote!

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"] can you play hours and hours of multiplayer lan on it? BubbyJello

Yes, why couldn't you?

well some may find it uncomfortable. but yes it's more accurate than the controller. but as a PC gamer it's far inferior to the mouse/keyboard. and in consoles it's the action/adventure/ fighting games that Im particularly interested in!

Ok, I get your arguement now. The lack of buttons making games that do better with controllers not get on the Wii and there being some people who would prefer to play with controllers is a problem. This isn't a flaw with 1 : 1, it just that Nintendo hasn't bothered to make the classic controller standard.Stabby2486

1:1s limitation is reality. so when you have complex moves represented in a game then preset motions are required! and in the NG example you agreed so great. I finaly get my point across.

[QUOTE="poster"]

ZOMG WTH?? what sort of comment is that? The developer wanted that move to be there so ofcourse it's going to be there. and it adds immensely to gameplay. for starters it's an incredible move. gameplay wise it kills the enemy in one shot by having his head crushed. a lot faster than hacking the enemy. anyway that very statement you said should be enough for you to relaise the limitation!! must I keep telling you that it's impossible to mimic Ryu's moveset!

Stabby2486

Well, if it adds to the gameplay I guess you're right on the NG example.

not just the gameplay, the look is also very important. being able to readily command such a powerful attack is the entertainment of that immersion. its something you can't do in real life. its pointless to pretend that graphics don't matter. seriously the best gaming experience Ive ever had. I've put in more than 100hrs.

something obviousGreat_Ragnarok

thanx..you really enlightend me.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

your problem is not the wii, it's in yourself

Great_Ragnarok

wiifit and wiisports is god awful!!! its a nice warm up session for beginers to get used to the remote but other than that the game is terrible.I'mnot even going to comment on wiifit. Ive already done that at the start. having played many many fps games MP3 is quite average. Im not saying it's bad however. and please don't even mention boomblocks! why? spielberg why? hmmm and as for my problem is with myself, I must disagre. however I'm puzzled at your almost religious affection towarads nintendo. perhaps that is a more pressing matter?

well some may find it uncomfortable. but yes it's more accurate than the controller. but as a PC gamer it's far inferior to the mouse/keyboard. and in consoles it's the action/adventure/ fighting games that Im particularly interested in!

Great_Ragnarok

So your arguement is that you don't really like it all that much, so it's not an evolution?