This is what happens when gamers grow up (now pollified)

Wow, But yet he finds the time to write a Blog.Evil-Zero86

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

I think a new generation of gamers will soon be buying the "epic blockbusters" that the aging generation made famous.

It sounds to me like this person is still playing games quite a bit. He plays on the train for roughly 45 minutes to and from work, yet he beat FFIII's 35 hour story in the first week he got it.

Last_Stand

Very interesting. Never really thought of this.

Not hard to imagine that a new era is dawning on gaming. After all, everyone who grew up with the NES or SNES is starting to get older, get solid jobs, and not have the time or interest for longer games.

If you think about this, we could easily see two camps emerging in the industry: the PS3/360 group (and similar such consoles that will follow them) that caters to the established, adolescent/young-adult gamer who has the time and resources for an epic gaming experience; and the Wii/DS group that brings in a new audience and grabs those who are aging their way out of the PS3/360 camp.

And we could easily see these two groups coexist. Microsoft seems to see this by taking on the PS3, which has the same audience, rather than the Wii.

Timeline of a gamer:

DS/Wii---->PS3/360---->DS/Wii

Some people may never get out of stage two. Some stay interested in such games for their lives. Some may never get out of stage one and only dabble in games as a passing hobby.

Thoughts?

I think we could see this happening as the Wii and DS begin to draw in new gamers. However I also see new teenage gamers being drawn in by sports games, and then moving on to games such as GTA, Halo, Socom, CS, etc. I've seen it happening at my school, now it will be interesting to see if people that join in the middle of your timeline ever move on, or if they stay in the 360/PS3 type group.

I think I agree. Only really good and fun games can hold my attention on the consoles these days.. or short ones like Catan, Alien Hominid, Geometry Wars..

I had my Wii since launch with Zelda and just haven't really found the time to play it that much... I find myself playing Wii sports, Wii Play, Monkey ball etc.. games that are just more bite-sized 

When Gamers Grow Up they become more attracted to sony or ms games :)

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="beldugo"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="beldugo"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="beldugo"] i avoid playing outside because when i'm outside i do stuff outside the house i wouldn't normaly do not go out to play games. whats the point of going out in the first place?Plug_One

when i go out the house i don't play with handhelds (games).. all game time happen inside my house. it defeats the purpose of going out in the first place, if your going out to play games ;).

itss nice to enjoy a quiet, thinking time once in a while (that's me anyways).

Yup, I'm always playing my DS on BART.

If your week is not planned in advance then you already have problems. BrooklynBomber

Are you serious?  I rarely know what I'm doing any night.  I hate plans. :x

Always have.

[QUOTE="BrooklynBomber"]If your week is not planned in advance then you already have problems. Jandurin

Are you serious? I rarely know what I'm doing any night. I hate plans. :x

Always have.

You must be a artist lol.  

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="BrooklynBomber"]If your week is not planned in advance then you already have problems. BrooklynBomber

Are you serious? I rarely know what I'm doing any night. I hate plans. :x

Always have.

You must be a artist lol.  

Luckily, I have a +9 man-slaying knife.

Wow, this thread has stayed polite and remained a good discussion.   May be a first in SW history!

I guess my points I'de like to make about the article and thread comments are:

1.  I see more adults playing the DS then I do kids.  I'm not around kids to often so take it for what its worth.  What I am around all the time are pilots.  I'm a pilot (helicopters) and where I fly out of corperate jet pilots (you know, the kind who fly the private jets for the rich) are always in the lobby hanging out till its time to go.  Quite often you them sitting on the couch DS in had killing time (The New Super Mario Bros seems to be the big one...still).  This demographic is at the age where the NES was there first system as a tween or teen and now the Nintendo name still holds there consumer dollars and there hearts.  They may not be rich, but can afford to choose between handhelds and the Nintendo name along with its quick play games has found a place.

2.  I think the Wii's popularity can be attributed to it being able to "multitask" in a way.  I'll explain.  Back before resposibility slapped most adults in our happy little asses we had more time to socialize, then play games, all while chasing the girls at school. Tthe Wii allows your to socialize, play games, and as we all know women love it.  I may have less time but I can fit it all in with one great fun machine.  All your favorites really at one time.  Plus, if you want to invest time in a game there is Zelda out there and more RPG's coming down the road.  This makes the we a truly versitle "game" machine, even though it may not be the multimedia superhub extravaganza Sony and MS would love to put in our living rooms.

3.  Older gamers may just want "game" consoles too without all the other stuff thrown in.  How many DVD players do I need?  Do I need another computer for my living room?  Do I really care that I can have a little "at home" character for online chat?  nope, nope, and nope.  I don't have much time for movies (and most new movies suck.  I think they ran out of ideas about 10 years ago).  I guess this goes back to the graphics v. gameplay debate kinda.  No matter how good the video quality is (blu-ray HD-DVD) it doesn't matter because the movies still stink.  Yeah you can digiatally reamaster a movie, but really how good can "Airplane! The Movie" get visually.  This leads me to think why spend the money (money for bills) for all the extras some consoles offer for the ability to watch movies I don't care about using time I don't have.

I could go more, but time to pack up and leave the office.  Ironic most of my free time for the internet is at work in the office waiting for flights.  Yes, I also have set up my Wii here sometimes, or bring my DS to kill time.  Short games, no commitment, and I can put them down at the drop of hat to actually go work.  I guess that was the point of the article which rang so true.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="SergeantSnitch"]What about now that the orginial gamers have gotten older, they want systems like the PS3 because of its multimedia features and its appeal to mature audience?SergeantSnitch

You must be joking, I have 4 handheld systems in my house and it's the wife who wants her own DS lite... 

Actually, as time goes, games are boring to me. "Gamers that grew up still addicted to games" only apply to some. Money and cars are what attracts me. Heck, I'm about to buy a brand new luxury ride.

redneckdouglas

So then what are you still doing on GAMEspot?

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple? 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis. 

I personally found that since I started working full time again, I actually play games MORE, because I have more money to enjoy this hobby. I'm not sure about all this "grown up" talk, the consoles and handhelds in question are in fact aimed at mostly younger players, as stated by the fans here and Nintendo themselves. It's the games, rather than the actual consoles, to me that define the type of gamer. Whilst I don't believe it's necessary to lose time to gaming for other pursuits, if a person makes that choice, that is perfectly acceptable. There are plenty of short, easy to play "get a quick game in" on the 360, and indeed on the PS2 since that console was marketed largely towards young men who did have jobs but still played plenty of games. Simply up to the gamer to decide how much time they want to devote to this particular hobby and what type of games they want to do so with.

[QUOTE="redneckdouglas"]

Actually, as time goes, games are boring to me. "Gamers that grew up still addicted to games" only apply to some. Money and cars are what attracts me. Heck, I'm about to buy a brand new luxury ride.

LanDC77

So then what are you still doing on GAMEspot?

I don't play that many games anymore, but I still like to talk about them. It's an interesting industry.

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

Thompsonwhore

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them. 

I vehemently disagree. Does the movie conneseiur relegate him/herself to prime-time sitcoms simply because he or she has less time to go to the movies? Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

Last_Stand

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?  

[QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

Thompsonwhore

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

[QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

mjarantilla

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

That's what "epic" games are, more or less. Games that are already quality and huge. However, if simpler games start to gain a larger audience, less games are going to be made in such a scope. And big franchises like Final Fantasy will probably start releasing their main titles on handhelds. We've already seen it happen with Dragon Quest. 

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

Thompsonwhore

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

That's what "epic" games are, more or less. Games that are already quality and huge. However, if simpler games start to gain a larger audience, less games are going to be made in such a scope. And big franchises like Final Fantasy will probably start releasing their main titles on handhelds. We've already seen it happen with Dragon Quest.

[QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

mjarantilla

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

That's what "epic" games are, more or less. Games that are already quality and huge. However, if simpler games start to gain a larger audience, less games are going to be made in such a scope. And big franchises like Final Fantasy will probably start releasing their main titles on handhelds. We've already seen it happen with Dragon Quest.

I like the way the Final Fantasy franchise has evolved. They're huge and massive worlds. They have an atmosphere, a feeling that it's an actually real place. Voice acting and believable characters. The last thing I want is to go back to sprites talking in text. 

As for Final Fantasy on handhelds, are you nuts? That'd be AMAZING. If anything, I want them to back off on the super-edgy-hyper-adrenaline-junkie style of their newer games and concentrate more on storytelling. Final Fantasy has never exceeded the bar set by Final Fantasy VI back in the early 90s. If handheld gaming brings us another Final Fantasy VI-style game, that'd be worth all kinds of ZOMGs.mjarantilla

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

Thompsonwhore

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

That's what "epic" games are, more or less. Games that are already quality and huge. However, if simpler games start to gain a larger audience, less games are going to be made in such a scope. And big franchises like Final Fantasy will probably start releasing their main titles on handhelds. We've already seen it happen with Dragon Quest.

I like the way the Final Fantasy franchise has evolved. They're huge and massive worlds. They have an atmosphere, a feeling that it's an actually real place. Voice acting and believable characters. The last thing I want is to go back to sprites talking in text.

[QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

Thompsonwhore

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

Because there's almost no chance that the epic-gamer market share will ever go low enough to the point where no one will profit from catering to them.

And what justice comes from the opposite: no pick-up-and-play games for one audience while you get your fill on the epics?

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"] As for Final Fantasy on handhelds, are you nuts? That'd be AMAZING. If anything, I want them to back off on the super-edgy-hyper-adrenaline-junkie style of their newer games and concentrate more on storytelling. Final Fantasy has never exceeded the bar set by Final Fantasy VI back in the early 90s. If handheld gaming brings us another Final Fantasy VI-style game, that'd be worth all kinds of ZOMGs.Teufelhuhn

I disagree, epic games will always be more rewarding, even if you have to cut your playtime into shorter sessions. What's wrong with playing FF, and playing for maybe 45 mins a session until you reach that next save point. Go to work the next day, always wondering what is going to happen next in the game. That actually sounds more enjoyable then beating the game in 3 10 hours sessions.

If i spent hours everyday playing mini games, it would be a waste of time IMO. 

[QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

mjarantilla

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

That's what "epic" games are, more or less. Games that are already quality and huge. However, if simpler games start to gain a larger audience, less games are going to be made in such a scope. And big franchises like Final Fantasy will probably start releasing their main titles on handhelds. We've already seen it happen with Dragon Quest.

Agreed that no game has ever touched FF6's legendary story and characters. Still, you can't say that removing the fluff from games will mean that a great story will emerge. It's possible, but I would love to see it all come together more than anything. I would go out and buy a PS3 if they made an FF6 remake in 3D. :D

Maybe not, but I'd still love to see it.

[QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

mjarantilla

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

That's what "epic" games are, more or less. Games that are already quality and huge. However, if simpler games start to gain a larger audience, less games are going to be made in such a scope. And big franchises like Final Fantasy will probably start releasing their main titles on handhelds. We've already seen it happen with Dragon Quest.

I like the way the Final Fantasy franchise has evolved. They're huge and massive worlds. They have an atmosphere, a feeling that it's an actually real place. Voice acting and believable characters. The last thing I want is to go back to sprites talking in text.

So then tell me, from your high esteem of Final Fantasy VI, why couldn't it be done now? Why couldn't it be done with modern graphics and voice acting? How are portable systems more capable of delivering the Final Fantasy experience than a computer or a console? I think your argument is against the newer installments of Final Fantasy rather than the platform they're on. You seem to have misplaced that disappointment and blamed it on the system they were on rather than the game itself.

I disagree, epic games will always be more rewarding, even if you have to cut your playtime into shorter sessions. What's wrong with playing FF, and playing for maybe 45 mins a session until you reach that next save point. Go to work the next day, always wondering what is going to happen next in the game. That actually sounds more enjoyable then beating the game in 3 10 hours sessions.

If i spent hours everyday playing mini games, it would be a waste of time IMO.

HoldThePhone

I think you're missing the point on the pick-up-and-play games. They aren't designed to be "beaten", per se. Games like Mario Kart and other Wii/DS games are meant to be played in groups and in small sessions, meant still to be fun no matter how many times you play it. Everyone gets bored of a game eventually, but some games are meant to be replayed more often than others. I rarely find myself playing RPGs or anything like that anymore, and I find myself playing more Mario Kart or Super Smash Bros. in groups. Maybe some gamers don't have as much of a social propensity, but some do.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"] As for Final Fantasy on handhelds, are you nuts? That'd be AMAZING. If anything, I want them to back off on the super-edgy-hyper-adrenaline-junkie style of their newer games and concentrate more on storytelling. Final Fantasy has never exceeded the bar set by Final Fantasy VI back in the early 90s. If handheld gaming brings us another Final Fantasy VI-style game, that'd be worth all kinds of ZOMGs.mjarantilla

What came before doesn't have to be "abandoned", it can be built upon. Perhaps what we're both seeking is a balance. Taking the example of Final Fantasy again, maybe what would make FFXIII truly great would be the storytelling styyle and characters of VI coupled with whatever other advances the series has made over years (I don't really know what they are, the only FF game I've ever played is IV).

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

Thompsonwhore

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

That's what "epic" games are, more or less. Games that are already quality and huge. However, if simpler games start to gain a larger audience, less games are going to be made in such a scope. And big franchises like Final Fantasy will probably start releasing their main titles on handhelds. We've already seen it happen with Dragon Quest.

I like the way the Final Fantasy franchise has evolved. They're huge and massive worlds. They have an atmosphere, a feeling that it's an actually real place. Voice acting and believable characters. The last thing I want is to go back to sprites talking in text.

So then tell me, from your high esteem of Final Fantasy VI, why couldn't it be done now? Why couldn't it be done with modern graphics and voice acting? How was portable systems more capable of delivering the Final Fantasy experience than a computer or a console? I think you're argument is against the newer installments of Final Fantasy rather than the platform they're on. You seem to have misplaced that disappointment and blamed it on the system they were on rather than the game itself.

Wii will not win because it wont have good games.
Nintendo and handhelds are a household name tho.springz300

This isn't necessarily why the Wii and DS are selling. They're selling because someone finally realized that there is an untapped audience out there: an audience that the last gen consoles and current-gen consoles (including the GBA) never got to. These people don't have the time or interest to sit down and play a game for an extended period of time, which most modern games require. Even the PSP is having a hard time hitting that market.

Wii and DS should be commended for their efforts. They took a big gamble, and it paid off. There was a chance that this untapped market could have turned away and figured it didn't need games. But they've bought into Nintendo's philosophy, and by the looks of sales, they aren't wrong. 

I DO think it could be done now. I just don't think Square WANTS it to be done, because they can get audiences easier if they add more graphical effects artists. When a creator is given constraints, he is forced to become even more creative and exert more effort to produce quality than he would be if he had no constraints whatsoever.mjarantilla

Agreed. When Square released FF6 in 1994, the graphics were actually very good for their time. Plus, Final Fantasy wasn't nearly as much of a household name as it is now (especially in the west). FF7 was their breakthrough, and it was mostly because of the graphics and FMV. With the capability to give the masses what they want (pretty graphics and FMV), why would they go back to the niche that longs for the good ol' days?

[QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

mjarantilla

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

That's what "epic" games are, more or less. Games that are already quality and huge. However, if simpler games start to gain a larger audience, less games are going to be made in such a scope. And big franchises like Final Fantasy will probably start releasing their main titles on handhelds. We've already seen it happen with Dragon Quest.

I like the way the Final Fantasy franchise has evolved. They're huge and massive worlds. They have an atmosphere, a feeling that it's an actually real place. Voice acting and believable characters. The last thing I want is to go back to sprites talking in text.

So then tell me, from your high esteem of Final Fantasy VI, why couldn't it be done now? Why couldn't it be done with modern graphics and voice acting? How was portable systems more capable of delivering the Final Fantasy experience than a computer or a console? I think you're argument is against the newer installments of Final Fantasy rather than the platform they're on. You seem to have misplaced that disappointment and blamed it on the system they were on rather than the game itself.

I really doubt SE is intentionally making their games look good while at the same time making the stories worse.

Final Fantasy XII had a great story and world, I think. 

But to your first comment, I think you're proving what this discussion was about before. Simpler games will claim more market share and the larger franchises will succumb at one point or another. 

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"] As for Final Fantasy on handhelds, are you nuts? That'd be AMAZING. If anything, I want them to back off on the super-edgy-hyper-adrenaline-junkie style of their newer games and concentrate more on storytelling. Final Fantasy has never exceeded the bar set by Final Fantasy VI back in the early 90s. If handheld gaming brings us another Final Fantasy VI-style game, that'd be worth all kinds of ZOMGs.Teufelhuhn

What came before doesn't have to be "abandoned", it can be built upon. Perhaps what we're both seeking is a balance. Taking the example of Final Fantasy again, maybe what would make FFXIII truly great would be the storytelling styyle and characters of VI coupled with whatever other advances the series has made over years (I don't really know what they are, the only FF game I've ever played is IV).

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"][QUOTE="Last_Stand"][QUOTE="Thompsonwhore"]

Yes, let's all destroy the large and epic games. Let's get rid of Halo franchise, the Gears of War franchise, Final Fantasy, Unreal Tournament, Quake, Crysis, Mario, Zelda, The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, etc etc.

I'm not sure what's worse, that people grow up and don't have any time to enjoy their hobbies or that they transition over into enjoying shallow games over deep ones. What's next, will you stop watching things like The Lord of the Rings and start exclusively watching Pokemon on TV because they're smaller chunks and simple?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely disregarding handhelds. Some games on them are fun. But let's put it this way: I wouldn't take Mario Kart racing over Crysis.

Thompsonwhore

Why do you necessarily have to kill the epic games just because a new niche is rising?

This drives me crazy. The Wii and DS are NOT killing epic videogames. They are creating a new niche to COEXIST with them.

Because if the simple games claim more and more of the market share, who will bother to make huge, epic games anymore when they can make so much more money on handhelds games or otherwise simpler, technologically less advanced games?

That's what "epic" games are, more or less. Games that are already quality and huge. However, if simpler games start to gain a larger audience, less games are going to be made in such a scope. And big franchises like Final Fantasy will probably start releasing their main titles on handhelds. We've already seen it happen with Dragon Quest.

I like the way the Final Fantasy franchise has evolved. They're huge and massive worlds. They have an atmosphere, a feeling that it's an actually real place. Voice acting and believable characters. The last thing I want is to go back to sprites talking in text.

So then tell me, from your high esteem of Final Fantasy VI, why couldn't it be done now? Why couldn't it be done with modern graphics and voice acting? How was portable systems more capable of delivering the Final Fantasy experience than a computer or a console? I think you're argument is against the newer installments of Final Fantasy rather than the platform they're on. You seem to have misplaced that disappointment and blamed it on the system they were on rather than the game itself.

I really doubt SE is intentionally making their games look good while at the same time making the stories worse.

Final Fantasy XII had a great story and world, I think.

But to your first comment, I think you're proving what this discussion was about before. Simpler games will claim more market share and the larger franchises will succumb at one point or another.

I DO think it could be done now. I just don't think Square WANTS it to be done, because they can get audiences easier if they add more graphical effects artists. When a creator is given constraints, he is forced to become even more creative and exert more effort to produce quality than he would be if he had no constraints whatsoever.mjarantilla

I really don't think either of those statments have any truth to them at all. Paying someone to write a good story is a heck of a lot cheaper then paying for a team of talented artistis, I can tell you that much. Again there's this idea that there's always a tradeoff between graphics and other elements of a game, and I honestly don't know where it comes from.  A good story can be written by as few as one or two people, and would have no effect on the development of graphics and everything else.

And constraints are just that: they're constraints. They limit what someone can do in just about all aspects of game development. Why should more requiring more effort to produce quality be considered a positive?

I completely agree but even if I didn't I'd still love the article simply because it has Settlers of Catan on the top.

BEST. GAME. EVER. 

The article rings true for me.  I am much more likely to play a game I can pick up and play for a few minutes than something that's going to require more of a time investment.  About the only time I play epic games is when I have a free Saturday, and even then I'm lucky to get in more than 4 hours.

However, as much as time contraints do affect my gaming choices, I think I'm also less likely to avoid an epic game because often times I feel like "Hey, I've played this before".  It's hard for me to invest 40, let alone 100 hours, in a game when it's essentially the same experience as the prior game in the series.

Were I to take public transportation to work, I'd have probably purchased my DS sooner.  I ended up purchasing my DS because of the amount of travel I do each year.  I find it a good way to kill time on the plane or at the Hotel.  I also play it at home more than my PC or Wii because I can easily pack in 15 minutes of gaming.  Plus, the DS games are much much better with their saves than the majority of console games.  And, even if the game doesn't save well, there's always sleep mode.

I really don't think either of those statments have any truth to them at all. Paying someone to write a good story is a heck of a lot cheaper then paying for a team of talented artistis, I can tell you that much. Again there's this idea that there's always a tradeoff between graphics and other elements of a game, and I honestly don't know where it comes from. A good story can be written by as few as one or two people, and would have no effect on the development of graphics and everything else.

And constraints are just that: they're constraints. They limit what someone can do in just about all aspects of game development. Why should more requiring more effort to produce quality be considered a positive?

Teufelhuhn

I agree. 

And this is why the Wii and DS will win. Thoughts? I've graduated from college, gotten a career (in the gaming industry, as a matter of fact), and I live on my own, and I couldn't agree more.mjarantilla

I disagree with "why the wii/ds will win"

All this article does is detail a personal and isolated experience from ONE person who takes a 45 min train ride to work everyday.

I live 8 mins away from work, when I get home... I get high, drunk, and I play video games with my roommates until we pass out.

I could easily write an article stating that because I have grown up, I have MORE time and money to invest in video games becuse I do not to waste my time with that pitiful homework anymore.

You seriously believe that because older gamers want quicker and faster games, the WII and DS is going to "win"? Well what about the kids whose first system was the XBOX? They were 13ish when they got their original Xbox's and now they are 17-18ish with their X360's and what not. I'm pretty sure they want epic games now. The cycle starts all over with these younguns.

 The wii/ds will win because of PRICE and UNIQUENESS (probably not a word). Not because an immigrated gamer rides the train to work.

I really don't think either of those statments have any truth to them at all. Someone to write a good story is a heck of a lot cheaper then paying for a team of talented artistis, I can tell you that much. Teufelhuhn

And constraints are just that: they're constraints. They limit what someone can do in just about all aspects of game development. Why should more requiring more effort to produce quality be considered a positive?

Teufelhuhn