This is why Xbox Live is worth the money...

[QUOTE="Gxgear"]

[QUOTE="Yours_is_green"] 5 BUCKS!?!? HOW WILL MY FAMILY EAT WE ARE GOING TO DIE!!! seriously, I don't know how it's getting "milked" to pay 5 dollars a month for a superior service.Yours_is_green

P2P is superior to dedicated servers? Okay.

Why do lemmings even bother bringing the PSN into this. You say XBL > PSN but there's no dedicated servers. Then you argue there is more features with XBL but the silver account offers that too for free. This just doesn't end well for you.

I've had "terribad" experiences too with XBL at my friend's place, but you're right I'm going to take your word and ONLY your word for it and declare PSN obsolete.

/sarcasm off

So you like paying for free features I see. Well, whatever floats your boat I guess.

[QUOTE="Yours_is_green"][QUOTE="Gxgear"]

P2P is superior to dedicated servers? Okay.

Why do lemmings even bother bringing the PSN into this. You say XBL > PSN but there's no dedicated servers. Then you argue there is more features with XBL but the silver account offers that too for free. This just doesn't end well for you.

Gxgear

I've had "terribad" experiences too with XBL at my friend's place, but you're right I'm going to take your word and ONLY your word for it and declare PSN obsolete.

/sarcasm off

So you like paying for free features I see. Well, whatever floats your boat I guess.

XBL is like a car with annual fees

-it doesn't drive well and has a bad transmission and a poor engine

-has 8 cupholders

-has lambroghini doors

-has a slick paint job

-has hydraulics

-has a body kit and a spoiler fit for a boeing 747

-must pay for additional stuff to put in the car

PSN is like a free car that

-drives and handles extremely well

-has 4 cupholders

-normal doors

-normal paintjob

-no hydraulics

-no body-kit

-free stuff to put in your car

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]Of course you think it's useless; it puts the lie to your repeated claim that "Steam and PSN are equivalent to Xbox Live, except FREE!"

Xbox Live manages the online game session from start to finish, in a way neither PSN nor Steam even come close to doing.

UnnDunn

That's fun... but your still not explaining why they charge us $50 a year for playing online.

Again, how do you explain they charge me $50 just to play online... not every player wants the extra "crap". I just want to play online, but I have to pay $50 more... what's the deal. The only thing you can justify the pricing is with the extra "crap". I and other people here don't need or want that, we just want to play online. Now, try to explain why I need to pay for that.

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]

[QUOTE="halo_wars86"]

LIES

BobSacamento

most who say xbox live sucks and isn't worth the money have yet to use xbox live or even an xbox

Yes, and that reason is because of Xbox Live $50.

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]Except not.

Bebi_vegeta

most who say xbox live sucks and isn't worth the money have yet to use xbox live or even an xbox

Yes, and that reason is because of Xbox Live $50.

well then they arent in a position to critique are they

and or all the peeps saying its $5 a month, it's now $3.50 a month after they bumped it down to $40 a year

which works out to roughly 75 cents per week - very tough to afford, look under your @$$ right now and you'll find it

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

most who say xbox live sucks and isn't worth the money have yet to use xbox live or even an xbox

BobSacamento

Yes, and that reason is because of Xbox Live $50.

well then they arent in a position to critique are they

and or all the peeps saying its $5 a month, it's now $3.50 a month after they bumped it down to $40 a year

which works out to roughly 75 cents per week - very tough to afford, look under your @$$ right now and you'll find it

Again can I play online for free? What no? OK, next.

So you're paying live per day or per year?

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Yes, and that reason is because of Xbox Live $50.

Bebi_vegeta

well then they arent in a position to critique are they

and or all the peeps saying its $5 a month, it's now $3.50 a month after they bumped it down to $40 a year

which works out to roughly 75 cents per week - very tough to afford, look under your @$$ right now and you'll find it

Again can I play online for free? What no? OK, next.

So you're paying live per day or per year?

what are you blabbering about now

thats just what it costs im staying outta this argument

PSN gets the job done for free, Xbox Live is luxury and costs you 10 cents per day, 70 cents a week, $3.50 a month, or $40 a year

playstation people seem to think of xbox live as a detractor, when a lot of people (including myself) buy it BECAUSE of Live

we all know xbox live is better, if you have the money you have the money, if you don't - then dont get it and stop bugging us who can afford the pennies

If XBL is priced. And IF I was a dev then maybe our game won't be as much to put on live. Maybe we can gain more. IF I was a dev. Which I'm not. So how does this make it worth the price tag again? Oh because they can put more into the game. Okay. ... yes, and that will in turn to Make the Price tag of the game go up. ahah....:| :cry:

Oh wait. You're saying we pay what the devs should pay. Okay. Yes thats why live is priced. Good for the devs. And that makes it good for us?

LOXO7

xbox certainly rocks the software

hardware...mmmm not so much

xbox certainly rocks the software

hardware...mmmm not so much

BobSacamento

Hmm, one single simplified matchmaking and stats system that that I have to pay money for on the xbox, OR a plethora of excellent free alternatives on the PC? This is a very obivous choice.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

well then they arent in a position to critique are they

and or all the peeps saying its $5 a month, it's now $3.50 a month after they bumped it down to $40 a year

which works out to roughly 75 cents per week - very tough to afford, look under your @$$ right now and you'll find it

BobSacamento

Again can I play online for free? What no? OK, next.

So you're paying live per day or per year?

what are you blabbering about now

thats just what it costs im staying outta this argument

PSN gets the job done for free, Xbox Live is luxury and costs you 10 cents per day, 70 cents a week, $3.50 a month, or $40 a year

playstation people seem to think of xbox live as a detractor, when a lot of people (including myself) buy it BECAUSE of Live

we all know xbox live is better, if you have the money you have the money, if you don't - then dont get it and stop bugging us who can afford the pennies

I don't want your damn luxury! I want the right to play online for free! Do you understand that???

It doesn't matter if it's 70cent week,3.5 month or $40... they charge for online. Microsoft way of making more money out of you because you accept.

Don't talk to me about money. It's worthless argument when every other system is free.

People need to understand that it doesn't cost $50.. It costs around $35 at ebay/amazon + the card ontop of its 12 months comes wiht a bonus one month addition.. I am sorry guys if there is one thing that Playstation 3 has a huge weakness at, its the PoS PSN.. As a street Fighter 4 player for instnace I find it increasingly hard to find games let alone join it even, with a good connection.. My friends Xbox360 network blows the street fighter 4 experience out of the water.. Than you get games like Killzone 2.. No party system? Seriously? No easy to use voice chat intergrated system? Instead we get pieces of crap like HOME.. Something that was unneeded.. This is completely ignoring the slow ass download rates the PS store has.. This is coming from a PS3 owner.. As well as a PC gamer (some one who is accustomed to free online systems).. The minimal amount of fee is well worth it for the crap service.. Sure SOME of you might think PSN is fine the way it is, but I have higher standards and have the fortunate expereience of online play on PC, Xbox360, PS3, and Wii..sSubZerOo

I rather have the options! Give me online with limited features for free and let thoses who want everything for $40.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

well then they arent in a position to critique are they

and or all the peeps saying its $5 a month, it's now $3.50 a month after they bumped it down to $40 a year

which works out to roughly 75 cents per week - very tough to afford, look under your @$$ right now and you'll find it

BobSacamento

Again can I play online for free? What no? OK, next.

So you're paying live per day or per year?

what are you blabbering about now

thats just what it costs im staying outta this argument

PSN gets the job done for free, Xbox Live is luxury and costs you 10 cents per day, 70 cents a week, $3.50 a month, or $40 a year

You forgot to take the calculations one step further: $200 total up to the 4th year it's out.

Just keep going and....makes you really think doesn't it?

Again, how do you explain they charge me $50 just to play online... not every player wants the extra "crap". I just want to play online, but I have to pay $50 more... what's the deal. The only thing you can justify the pricing is with the extra "crap". I and other people here don't need or want that, we just want to play online. Now, try to explain why I need to pay for that.

Bebi_vegeta

I don't want your damn luxury! I want the right to play online for free! Do you understand that???Bebi_vegeta

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]People need to understand that it doesn't cost $50.. It costs around $35 at ebay/amazon + the card ontop of its 12 months comes wiht a bonus one month addition.. I am sorry guys if there is one thing that Playstation 3 has a huge weakness at, its the PoS PSN.. As a street Fighter 4 player for instnace I find it increasingly hard to find games let alone join it even, with a good connection.. My friends Xbox360 network blows the street fighter 4 experience out of the water.. Than you get games like Killzone 2.. No party system? Seriously? No easy to use voice chat intergrated system? Instead we get pieces of crap like HOME.. Something that was unneeded.. This is completely ignoring the slow ass download rates the PS store has.. This is coming from a PS3 owner.. As well as a PC gamer (some one who is accustomed to free online systems).. The minimal amount of fee is well worth it for the crap service.. Sure SOME of you might think PSN is fine the way it is, but I have higher standards and have the fortunate expereience of online play on PC, Xbox360, PS3, and Wii..Bebi_vegeta

I rather have the options! Give me online with limited features for free and let thoses who want everything for $40.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Again, how do you explain they charge me $50 just to play online... not every player wants the extra "crap". I just want to play online, but I have to pay $50 more... what's the deal. The only thing you can justify the pricing is with the extra "crap". I and other people here don't need or want that, we just want to play online. Now, try to explain why I need to pay for that.

UnnDunn

Yes, but Microsoft is forcing me to pay for things I may not want... do you not see this?

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

I don't want your damn luxury! I want the right to play online for free! Do you understand that???UnnDunn

Simple? This is about Live here... why it's not worth the money and why it is.

Unless PS3 offers the same games?

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]People need to understand that it doesn't cost $50.. It costs around $35 at ebay/amazon + the card ontop of its 12 months comes wiht a bonus one month addition.. I am sorry guys if there is one thing that Playstation 3 has a huge weakness at, its the PoS PSN.. As a street Fighter 4 player for instnace I find it increasingly hard to find games let alone join it even, with a good connection.. My friends Xbox360 network blows the street fighter 4 experience out of the water.. Than you get games like Killzone 2.. No party system? Seriously? No easy to use voice chat intergrated system? Instead we get pieces of crap like HOME.. Something that was unneeded.. This is completely ignoring the slow ass download rates the PS store has.. This is coming from a PS3 owner.. As well as a PC gamer (some one who is accustomed to free online systems).. The minimal amount of fee is well worth it for the crap service.. Sure SOME of you might think PSN is fine the way it is, but I have higher standards and have the fortunate expereience of online play on PC, Xbox360, PS3, and Wii..sSubZerOo

I rather have the options! Give me online with limited features for free and let thoses who want everything for $40.

PC has none of thoses probleme you mentionned.

Are you telling me every other console online games have lag except for Microsoft Live?

Like said many times, not everybody wants the extra feature.

Small amouth are large amouth when added every year. I think X360 could be the most expensive console if you add every year of Live.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

I rather have the options! Give me online with limited features for free and let thoses who want everything for $40.

PC has none of thoses probleme you mentionned.

Are you telling me every other console online games have lag except for Microsoft Live?

Like said many times, not everybody wants the extra feature.

Small amouth are large amouth when added every year. I think X360 could be the most expensive console if you add every year of Live.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] So what your saying is you want a inferior service that is unintutive, has certain lag problems, complete lack of functionality compared to other services so you don't have to pay a minimal amount? I am starting to think its kids who don't have any money or access to a credit card.. Its $35 for 13 months, people need to get beyond this.. It seems absolutely hypocritical when you are already spending $400 that you can't handle such a small amount.. Going to a fast food joint one trip will cost more than the monthly fee of this.. sSubZerOo

PC has none of thoses probleme you mentionned.

Are you telling me every other console online games have lag except for Microsoft Live?

Like said many times, not everybody wants the extra feature.

Small amouth are large amouth when added every year. I think X360 could be the most expensive console if you add every year of Live.

No matter if it's dirt cheap. If you just want to play a few hours online you'll need to pay the full price of online... every year.

Again, give me the option to pay full features or free with limited to no feature.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

PC has none of thoses probleme you mentionned.

Are you telling me every other console online games have lag except for Microsoft Live?

Like said many times, not everybody wants the extra feature.

Small amouth are large amouth when added every year. I think X360 could be the most expensive console if you add every year of Live.

Bebi_vegeta

No matter if it's dirt cheap. If you just want to play a few hours online you'll need to pay the full price of online... every year.

Again, give me the option to pay full features or free with limited to no feature.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] Your talking toa PC gamer and I understand beggers can't be choosers.. XBL for the 360 is your only choice, but fortunately it is dirt cheap.. No I am saying that the PSN is usually more unstable than the Xbox360 network.. This is coming form some one that owns a PS3 and has played on their friends Xbox360 for a long time.. I think the PSN system is balls, it is subpar to say the least.. As a PC gamer I would be fully willing to pay such a minimal fee if it would pull the PS3's online service into the 21st century.. UnnDunn

No matter if it's dirt cheap. If you just want to play a few hours online you'll need to pay the full price of online... every year.

Again, give me the option to pay full features or free with limited to no feature.

Hence why it's not worth it, deal with it.

Hence why it's not worth it, deal with it.

Bebi_vegeta

vagita,

your argument about how it is forced on you - is valid

but then you say, it's not worth it - and then you lose some cred

yes you are right, they dont give you like a "lite" service that is free but only for online, so i understand your point - which is why we have the playstation

not worth 70 cents a week is a matter of opinion

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Hence why it's not worth it, deal with it.

UnnDunn

Do what I want?... there's alot of people who disagree with you... So, it's not just me. Unless you've been arguing alone :?

vagita,

your argument about how it is forced on you - is valid

but then you say, it's not worth it - and then you lose some cred

yes you are right, they dont give you like a "lite" service that is free but only for online, so i understand your point - which is why we have the playstation

not worth 70 cents a week is a matter of opinion

BobSacamento

Maybe if it was all dedicated server i'd understand there's a minimum price to pay for good maintenance.

So let me get this straight... because it doesn't do what YOU want, it's not worth it? Egotistical much? :lol:

Bebi_vegeta

Do what I want?... there's alot of people who disagree with you... So, it's not just me. Unless you've been arguing alone :?

And 9 million people agree with me. That's the approximate number of Xbox Live Gold members, FYI.

UnnDunn

Yes, and how many online gamer for Wii,PS3,PC and Handheld?

Or how about, you tell me how many X360 owners don't have live Gold?

we all know xbox live is better, if you have the money you have the money, if you don't - then dont get it and stop bugging us who can afford the pennies

BobSacamento

This does not justify the price tag.

Simply because you spend that $50 USD a year on nothing but acess to content you paid for.

And by trying to make it seem 'better' by breaking down into days, is diminished by adding up into years*.
Mind you, you pay for either a month or a year upfront* - the way people are trying to skew this otherwise is ridiculous.

Of course if you could play your games online for free - would you pay for Live?

Hell no.
Thats it really isnt it.

Justifying something to take advantage of gamers*****, this being the live gold price tag - no matter the system preferance is horrid.

Being mindful of what you are actually paying, while doing so, at least keeps you aware of things.... and certinaly wont hinder your enjoyment as you play it online.

Yes the service is easily than PSN. Yes the price tag is horrible.

How simple can it get?

Stop trying to justify the price tag to yourself. Accept that you are being rippoed off by microsoft, however the service in its own merits is good. - Its a ripoff, and always will be. Paying to gain acess to game content you already paid for IS that. Put any price tag on it, and its a ripoff, like it or not.skrat_01

Of course, all the haters will continue to complain about how "PSN/PC do online for FREE!" or bleat about "dedicated servers"even though their systems are nowhere near as complex or robust as Xbox Live.

UnnDunn

[QUOTE="crazy-player"][QUOTE="UnnDunn"]There are no alternatives that do the same thing for free. On PC, most games implement their own custom online gaming systems, none of which are as robust as Xbox Live/GfW Live. Those may be alternatives, but they don't "do the same thing"... not even close.

yoyo462001

vent and team speak is WAAAAAYYYY better than XBL's cross game chat. dont get me started...

XBL GOLD is a rip-off, XBL GOLD users only pay not because its good, but because theres no other way to play the MP mode of the certain game.

[QUOTE="crazy-player"]

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"]no Pc does not, XBL is far better than anything on the PC and this is coming from a PC gamer, Pc you need Vent or teamspeak in most instances.UnnDunn

On XBL EVERY game has voice. No Teamspeak required.

[QUOTE="grr320"]

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

dude will you shaddap with the PC please lol?

don't play the value card with me when your playing the same games as me on a $1500 machine

BobSacamento

umm dude i didnt even pay 1500$ back in 2004 for this pc.

your 2004 less-than $1500 PC can run fallout3, Gears, Killzone 2 etc.?

lol! a $800 PC can run Crysis at max settings, you just need to get the right parts.

[QUOTE="-Master_St3ve-"][QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

i guess it is basically steam for xbox

only on steam you cant send and leave offline voice messages, you cant video chat, you cant talk to your friends while your all playing different games

no party system, no trueskill

i guess people just sort of let the $40 overwhelm them when really over 365 days it is absolutely nothing.

and you get every feature you can possibily think of for free - sadly the one feature that doesnt include is the ability to play multiplayer

but yes, a PC running multiple applications can give you all the features of live for free im not disputing that, but console makers gotta make cash somewhere they're already losing big money on every console sold

BobSacamento

dude, its 75 cents per WEEK

you can't afford 75 cents per WEEK, and you're in college?

thats half what a freaking pop in a vending machine costs

it's a single newspaper, it's a granola bar

look under your bed right now and you will find more than that

go into a convenience store, and grab it from the jar

thats insane to think 10 cents a day is a problem

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]Stop trying to justify the price tag to yourself. Accept that you are being rippoed off by microsoft, however the service in its own merits is good. - Its a ripoff, and always will be. Paying to gain acess to game content you already paid for IS that. Put any price tag on it, and its a ripoff, like it or not.UnnDunn

Not only is that example flawed but it also works against your point- everyone else is getting gasoline for free in their cars. To elaborate on all of this further;

You buy a game for $100AUD, that has online content on the disk... however unless you pay a Live Gold fee you do not get access to the content you paid for.

However all those other folks with their PS3 and PC versions can play their $100AUD game online, out of the box, with no extra fees. Because ultimately you pay for the product and get its features.

The product was never designed to have 'extra fees to keep it functioning' in the first place.

In short: Games aren't cars.

The simple reality of it that Microsoft simply forces you to pay, in order to play your games online.

Thats it....

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]Bzzt. Wrong. Neither PSN nor Steam work this way.

UnnDunn

Really?? Resistance 2 works exactly the same way as you described, so does Killzone 2.

guess how much I care... not at all... Killzone 2 runs pretty smoothly online better than alot of XBL games...

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

If XBL is priced. And IF I was a dev then maybe our game won't be as much to put on live. Maybe we can gain more. IF I was a dev. Which I'm not. So how does this make it worth the price tag again? Oh because they can put more into the game. Okay. ... yes, and that will in turn to Make the Price tag of the game go up. ahah....:| :cry:

Oh wait. You're saying we pay what the devs should pay. Okay. Yes thats why live is priced. Good for the devs. And that makes it good for us?

UnnDunn

Then why does Madden still use EA's outdated crappy server.... The same games perform at a high level for both systems do you even have a PS3 bc Killzone and Warhawk run extremely smooth for all the chaos that they have going on with them and Sony's games ghenerally have more 30+ online than Live games for my 360.... Stop being a lemming does it really matter??? I do pay for XBL and I like it but it should be free quite simply to me the games run just an smooth on PSN if not better...

i understand what you anti-live people are saying, it's not that it's incredibly cheap, it's that you don't have the option, and that you can't get access to features on your game without paying MS.

i agree they should offer some lite service, but im not sure how that would work - like allowing you to connect on multiplayer without including the live premium features. unfortunately the entire xbox interface and "experience" is centered around having these features and they are seamlessly integrated into every screen, window etc. so they would have to offer like two seperate NXE packages - the subscriber one, and the stripped down free one. but then every user has to have some askterisk beside their name to denote which features they have available to them, SOME people in the game can talk to each other but others can't etc.

maybe not a bad idea, maybe

your not paying for dedicated servers PER GAME, but MS does use a lot of dedicated servers for many of their features. for the 9000 voice emails stored in my inbox that are not stored on my xbox 360. for millions of extremely detailed profiles, the ability to have millions of people talking to each other cross game, cross movie cross demo at the same time, the ability to download a 1.5gb demo in 7 minutes etc.

the point is, many xbox features cost microsoft money and require a lot of maintenance; they already lose money every console so it's not crazy for them to charge us. they're just making a % of every game.

like you said, it's not a NECESSITY- but it's nice to have. why do people pay nearly twice as much for an apple computer? it does the same thing people just want the premium and clearly have some disposable income.

By that logic, gasoline should be free. After all, why do you have to pay more just to use the car you already paid for?UnnDunn

It's not worth the money. No point arguing over it.

It's not worth the money. No point arguing over it.

CreepyBacon

unless you're one of these people who have the real answers

thank god for them