This is why Xbox Live is worth the money...

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

I'm glad PC is nothing like Live.

grr320

dude will you shaddap with the PC please lol?

don't play the value card with me when your playing the same games as me on a $1500 machine

umm dude i didnt even pay 1500$ back in 2004 for this pc.

your 2004 less-than $1500 PC can run fallout3, Gears, Killzone 2 etc.?

[QUOTE="grr320"]

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

dude will you shaddap with the PC please lol?

don't play the value card with me when your playing the same games as me on a $1500 machine

BobSacamento

umm dude i didnt even pay 1500$ back in 2004 for this pc.

your 2004 less-than $1500 PC can run fallout3, Gears, Killzone 2 etc.?

Fallout and gears, yes.

most people dont care about paying for xbox live because their damn parents pay for it LOL, if you worked for ur money you'd be alittle more thoughtful with ur money.

i have a xbox360 and well it's broken waiting on it's coffin, but im not gonna pay for xbox live anymore man im sick of that crap not worth it.

pc is right for me does everthing i want it to for less hassle and money.

[QUOTE="grr320"]

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

dude will you shaddap with the PC please lol?

don't play the value card with me when your playing the same games as me on a $1500 machine

BobSacamento

umm dude i didnt even pay 1500$ back in 2004 for this pc.

your 2004 less-than $1500 PC can run fallout3, Gears, Killzone 2 etc.?

i can run crysis warhead on max and i do lol.

whatever guys lol im not really trying to defend it here i just dont find 13 cents a day to be that big a deal, obviously i would rather it be free too - but the fact that we pay means microsoft always adding features and improving the xbox system U.I itself - but just connecting 2 players together, thats all my internet and should not be paid for

even if it is just a teensie bit better, end of the day i don't have a choice

i've been saying this whole time that you are paying for the whole xbox user interface i haven't been defending the fact whether or not connecting players together costs money, just the universal integrated nature of the xbox U.I

whatever guys lol im not really trying to defend it here i just dont find 13 cents a day to be that big a deal, obviously i would rather it be free too - but the fact that we pay means microsoft always adding features and improving the xbox system U.I itself - but just connecting 2 players together, thats all my internet and should not be paid for

even if it is just a teensie bit better, end of the day i don't have a choice

i've been saying this whole time that you are paying for the whole xbox user interface i haven't been defending the fact whether or not connecting players together costs money, just the universal integrated nature of the xbox U.I

BobSacamento

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

[QUOTE="grr320"]

umm dude i didnt even pay 1500$ back in 2004 for this pc.

grr320

your 2004 less-than $1500 PC can run fallout3, Gears, Killzone 2 etc.?

i can run crysis warhead on max and i do lol.

also how does your 2004 PC (half life 2, doom 3) for $1500 max out the most technologically advanced games of today, that most still have trouble maxing out with 2009 hardware?

might you have thrown in a few $300 upgrades over the years?

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

whatever guys lol im not really trying to defend it here i just dont find 13 cents a day to be that big a deal, obviously i would rather it be free too - but the fact that we pay means microsoft always adding features and improving the xbox system U.I itself - but just connecting 2 players together, thats all my internet and should not be paid for

even if it is just a teensie bit better, end of the day i don't have a choice

i've been saying this whole time that you are paying for the whole xbox user interface i haven't been defending the fact whether or not connecting players together costs money, just the universal integrated nature of the xbox U.I

-Master_St3ve-

well then PC FTW but we're talkin console services here boi

[QUOTE="-Master_St3ve-"]

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

whatever guys lol im not really trying to defend it here i just dont find 13 cents a day to be that big a deal, obviously i would rather it be free too - but the fact that we pay means microsoft always adding features and improving the xbox system U.I itself - but just connecting 2 players together, thats all my internet and should not be paid for

even if it is just a teensie bit better, end of the day i don't have a choice

i've been saying this whole time that you are paying for the whole xbox user interface i haven't been defending the fact whether or not connecting players together costs money, just the universal integrated nature of the xbox U.I

BobSacamento

well then PC FTW but we're talkin console services here boi

i think it's the same part of the brain that makes people get a mac lol

it's just nicer

only instead of paying $500 more for a mac, im paying 13 cents per day

and i think they just dropped it to $40...

like i said - i got the 360 for the friggin system and games im not going to settle for (to me) a playstation 3, and (to me) what would be a much less enjoyable overall experience, to save myself 13 cents a day

im not insane here people im sure you all waste more money than that each day on something even more useless

[QUOTE="grr320"]

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

your 2004 less-than $1500 PC can run fallout3, Gears, Killzone 2 etc.?

BobSacamento

i can run crysis warhead on max and i do lol.

also how does your 2004 PC (half life 2, doom 3) for $1500 max out the most technologically advanced games of today, that most still have trouble maxing out with 2009 hardware?

might you have thrown in a few $300 upgrades over the years?

what you never got the latest graphics card? popped in a few more sticks of ram?

it's insane of me to think that PC gamers need to upgrade their systems to play the latest and greatest?

[QUOTE="crazy-player"][QUOTE="UnnDunn"]There are no alternatives that do the same thing for free. On PC, most games implement their own custom online gaming systems, none of which are as robust as Xbox Live/GfW Live. Those may be alternatives, but they don't "do the same thing"... not even close.

UnnDunn

On XBL, your game talks to the XBL APIs and all that stuff is handled for you automatically.

so they are outright screwing us and we are getting nothing?

playstation 3 and Wii do everything that xbox live does?

why do people say Live is the best service then?

what you never got the latest graphics card? popped in a few more sticks of ram?

it's insane of me to think that PC gamers need to upgrade their systems to play the latest and greatest?

BobSacamento

so they are outright screwing us and we are getting nothing?

playstation 3 and Wii do everything that xbox live does?

why do people say Live is the best service then?

BobSacamento

i guess it is basically steam for xbox

only on steam you cant send and leave offline voice messages, you cant video chat, you cant talk to your friends while your all playing different games

no party system, no trueskill

i guess people just sort of let the $40 overwhelm them when really over 365 days it is absolutely nothing.

and you get every feature you can possibily think of for free - sadly the one feature that isnt included is the ability to play multiplayer

but yes, a PC running multiple applications can give you all the features of live for free im not disputing that, but console makers gotta make cash somewhere they're already losing big money on every console sold

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

so they are outright screwing us and we are getting nothing?

playstation 3 and Wii do everything that xbox live does?

why do people say Live is the best service then?

-Master_St3ve-

but xfire costs money doesnt it? the people who run it?

only they make their cash through sponsors and advertisements etc.

nothing is totally free people somebody is paying

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

[QUOTE="grr320"]

i can run crysis warhead on max and i do lol.

-Master_St3ve-

also how does your 2004 PC (half life 2, doom 3) for $1500 max out the most technologically advanced games of today, that most still have trouble maxing out with 2009 hardware?

might you have thrown in a few $300 upgrades over the years?

nah im running crysis on max here's pic lol i mean i get some slowdown if a bunch of crap is happening houses blowing up tons of a.i near trees falling so on , but after i kill all the people its all good back to smoother gameplay, if only acouple fps is fine.

im serverly cpu limited though.

basically any game newwith good graphics* will have fps drop when action get's crazy same with my cpu will cause fps to drop alittle, but not past unplayable levels.

Oops i meant my pc can play it on max fine, but gets slowdowns when action get's crazy, but that's even with highest end rigs will drop framerates when lots of a.i is on screen and lots of physics based stuff happening stuff blowing up.

but it's not past unplayable framerates, example a highend rig averages 60 fps but when lots of crazy happens will drop some frames lower than that, but that doesnt mean it's unplayable.

console's experience same crap, killzone2 will slowdown when action get's crazy because it tax's the hardware.

i guess it is basically steam for xbox

only on steam you cant send and leave offline voice messages, you cant video chat, you cant talk to your friends while your all playing different games

no party system, no trueskill

i guess people just sort of let the $40 overwhelm them when really over 365 days it is absolutely nothing.

and you get every feature you can possibily think of for free - sadly the one feature that doesnt include is the ability to play multiplayer

but yes, a PC running multiple applications can give you all the features of live for free im not disputing that, but console makers gotta make cash somewhere they're already losing big money on every console sold

BobSacamento

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

You realise that's how most online services work :?

UnnDunn

most games are unplayable at anything below 25 frames per second.

crysis at about 15-20 fps is still playable, but when you getting into 5-10 fps zone then it's unplayable.

[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

i guess it is basically steam for xbox

only on steam you cant send and leave offline voice messages, you cant video chat, you cant talk to your friends while your all playing different games

no party system, no trueskill

i guess people just sort of let the $40 overwhelm them when really over 365 days it is absolutely nothing.

and you get every feature you can possibily think of for free - sadly the one feature that doesnt include is the ability to play multiplayer

but yes, a PC running multiple applications can give you all the features of live for free im not disputing that, but console makers gotta make cash somewhere they're already losing big money on every console sold

-Master_St3ve-

dude, its 75 cents per WEEK

you can't afford 75 cents per WEEK, and you're in college?

thats half what a freaking pop in a vending machine costs

it's a single newspaper, it's a granola bar

look under your bed right now and you will find more than that

go into a convenience store, and grab it from the jar

thats insane to think 10 cents a day is a problem

most games are unplayable at anything below 25 frames per second.

crysis at about 15-20 fps is still playable, but when you getting into 5-10 fps zone then it's unplayable.

grr320

xbox live should be free and i have used the service since 2002.

microsoft ripped people off enough years, atleast make it free on weekends or some crap.

ads for stuff we care about like xbox services and upcoming game news

look, if you can't afford 75 cents per week

you should not be playing next gen games as a hobby

you should be worrying about the imminent forclosure of your house, and your water bill

[QUOTE="-Master_St3ve-"][QUOTE="BobSacamento"]

i guess it is basically steam for xbox

only on steam you cant send and leave offline voice messages, you cant video chat, you cant talk to your friends while your all playing different games

no party system, no trueskill

i guess people just sort of let the $40 overwhelm them when really over 365 days it is absolutely nothing.

and you get every feature you can possibily think of for free - sadly the one feature that doesnt include is the ability to play multiplayer

but yes, a PC running multiple applications can give you all the features of live for free im not disputing that, but console makers gotta make cash somewhere they're already losing big money on every console sold

BobSacamento

dude, its 75 cents per WEEK

you can't afford 75 cents per WEEK, and you're in college?

thats half what a freaking pop in a vending machine costs

it's a single newspaper, it's a granola bar

OR you can pay 4.50 for a month, or other options

you guys can't possibly think downloadable content is worth money either then right?

OR you can pay 4.50 for a month, or other options

you guys can't possibly think downloadable content is worth money either then right?

BobSacamento

I pay for Xbox live, its not that much... i love playing online so i have to pay... Though i would prefare MS would offer such service for free, its not so there is no use to complain about that.. also we are talking about USD4.00 a month which in all honesty is not that much..

lol if everyone refused to pay for live, they'd have to make it free or just shut it down.

But XBL is free on the PC. That makes me even more mad to pay for it.

But XBL is free on the PC. That makes me even more mad to pay for it.

-Master_St3ve-

It's 1/10,000 less on the PC then on the 360.

Is it just me, or have there been too many "XBL is/isn't worth the money" threads lately? What's up with that?

Nerd_Man

[QUOTE="-Master_St3ve-"]

But XBL is free on the PC. That makes me even more mad to pay for it.

PS3_3DO

It's 1/10,000 less on the PC then on the 360.

[QUOTE="PS3_3DO"]

[QUOTE="-Master_St3ve-"]

But XBL is free on the PC. That makes me even more mad to pay for it.

-Master_St3ve-

It's 1/10,000 less on the PC then on the 360.

Live on the PC. It sucks compared to the XBL on the 360.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

I'll be honest... I didn't read that. I pay for Xbox Live, it's $50 a year. I can find that in my drawers for crying out loud

Rob_101

I'd rather use that $50 on a game instead of paying for something I get for free on PC/PS3.

same here

Is it just me, or have there been too many "XBL is/isn't worth the money" threads lately? What's up with that?

Nerd_Man

Let's say you're a developer working on a hot new title, and you want to build in multiplayer online support for it. Here's an (overly simplified) look at what you would have to do if you were using Xbox Live.

First, you'd have to set up an online game session. So what do you do? You program your game to fire off a quick message to Xbox Live saying "Hey XBL, set up a new online session for me plzkthx, and make PlayerA the 'owner'." Xbox Live then comes back and says "here's your game session; it's got the following players in it... PlayerA, PlayerB and PlayerC" and bingo, your session is started. As players join and drop off, Xbox Liveautomatically grabs IP addresses from the players, sets up voice channels between the players and fires off messages to your game advising it of new players. XBL is also monitoring the connection speed/quality of all the players and letting the game know.You never have to worry about IP addresses, or setting up voice channels or any of that low-level stuff. All you have to do is keep your lobby screen updated as players join/leave, talk and the connection quality changes.

So then the game is ready to begin. You fire off another message to Xbox Live saying "OK, let's do this. Time to start the game, we're playing with the following settings..." and you tell XBL the game specifics, like map selection, game type, etc. The game begins. As the game goes on, you're sending/receiving your proprietary game packets to/from other players with the updated gamestate information. To send/receive these packets, you aren't talking to the other players directly... rather, you're talking to Xbox Live APIs. You say "send this packet to PlayerC" and Xbox Live takes your packet, encrypts and signs it, and sends it to PlayerC's IP address. PlayerC's Xbox will receive the packet and its Xbox Live API will decrypt and inspect the packets for integrity before passing it to the game, which updates its screen to reflect the new gamestate. Once again, as the developer, you don't have to worry about IP addresses, you don't have to worry about encryption, you don't have to deal with voice support... all you have to do is send and receive your gamestate packets and update the gamestate accordingly.

When the game ends, you simply tell Xbox Live "hey, the game is over, here's the stats and here's who won and lost!" XBL takes this information and stores it in their stats databases for leaderboards and trueskill purposes. Again, you don't have to worry about maintaining your own stats database, or implementing your own skill-tracking

The infrastructure to support all this stuff is massive, complex and expensive. But the end result is you, as a developer, don't have to worry about the heavy lifting of implementing online multiplayer. Doing online multiplayer is as easy as doing system-link multiplayer. And since online multiplayer is easy for you to implement, you're more likely to put it in all of your games. Meaning we (as gamers) get to enjoy online multiplayer in tons and tons of games, from the smallest developers to the biggest AAA productions. We even get online multiplayer in Peggle. Well worth $50/yr if you ask me. If you built a system as complex and robust as Xbox Live, you'd be wanting a subscription fee to use it too.

Of course, all the haters will continue to complain about how "PSN/PC do online for FREE!" or bleat about "dedicated servers"even though their systems are nowhere near as complex or robust as Xbox Live.

UnnDunn

[QUOTE="-Master_St3ve-"]

[QUOTE="PS3_3DO"]

It's 1/10,000 less on the PC then on the 360.

PS3_3DO

Live on the PC. It sucks compared to the XBL on the 360.

I guess that's why we use whatever else is free on the net...

Needs moar tl;dr

I personally have no need for online multiplayer and cannot find any reason to pay for a service that should be free.

PC does it. PS3 does it. Wii does it. PS2 did it. Dreamcast did it. GC did it a bit. Online is a feature that aside from the Xbox platform has and will always continue to be free... no matter how much anyone is deluded into thinking it is "worth" paying for.

doesnt matter what ya'll think boys

CAUSE IT AINT!!!

looks like you'd doomed to shell out 3 quarters a week forever mwahaha

Let's say you're a developer working on a hot new title, and you want to build in multiplayer online support for it. Here's an (overly simplified) look at what you would have to do if you were using Xbox Live.

First, you'd have to set up an online game session. So what do you do? You program your game to fire off a quick message to Xbox Live saying "Hey XBL, set up a new online session for me plzkthx, and make PlayerA the 'owner'." Xbox Live then comes back and says "here's your game session; it's got the following players in it... PlayerA, PlayerB and PlayerC" and bingo, your session is started. As players join and drop off, Xbox Liveautomatically grabs IP addresses from the players, sets up voice channels between the players and fires off messages to your game advising it of new players. XBL is also monitoring the connection speed/quality of all the players and letting the game know.You never have to worry about IP addresses, or setting up voice channels or any of that low-level stuff. All you have to do is keep your lobby screen updated as players join/leave, talk and the connection quality changes.

So then the game is ready to begin. You fire off another message to Xbox Live saying "OK, let's do this. Time to start the game, we're playing with the following settings..." and you tell XBL the game specifics, like map selection, game type, etc. The game begins. As the game goes on, you're sending/receiving your proprietary game packets to/from other players with the updated gamestate information. To send/receive these packets, you aren't talking to the other players directly... rather, you're talking to Xbox Live APIs. You say "send this packet to PlayerC" and Xbox Live takes your packet, encrypts and signs it, and sends it to PlayerC's IP address. PlayerC's Xbox will receive the packet and its Xbox Live API will decrypt and inspect the packets for integrity before passing it to the game, which updates its screen to reflect the new gamestate. Once again, as the developer, you don't have to worry about IP addresses, you don't have to worry about encryption, you don't have to deal with voice support... all you have to do is send and receive your gamestate packets and update the gamestate accordingly.

When the game ends, you simply tell Xbox Live "hey, the game is over, here's the stats and here's who won and lost!" XBL takes this information and stores it in their stats databases for leaderboards and trueskill purposes. Again, you don't have to worry about maintaining your own stats database, or implementing your own skill-tracking

The infrastructure to support all this stuff is massive, complex and expensive. But the end result is you, as a developer, don't have to worry about the heavy lifting of implementing online multiplayer. Doing online multiplayer is as easy as doing system-link multiplayer. And since online multiplayer is easy for you to implement, you're more likely to put it in all of your games. Meaning we (as gamers) get to enjoy online multiplayer in tons and tons of games, from the smallest developers to the biggest AAA productions. We even get online multiplayer in Peggle. Well worth $50/yr if you ask me. If you built a system as complex and robust as Xbox Live, you'd be wanting a subscription fee to use it too.

Of course, all the haters will continue to complain about how "PSN/PC do online for FREE!" or bleat about "dedicated servers"even though their systems are nowhere near as complex or robust as Xbox Live.

UnnDunn

one of the most useless posts I've ever seen in SW.

joining a server or picking up and hosting a game was already easy! it was never a problem on the PC

because most games allowed a vast amount of filters. you could even filter the servers down to your own country!

in some cases down to specific ISP!

eg. BF2142 you could filter it to NZ isp Xtra!

now I don't speak for everyone. maybe some find doing all this by yourself quite difficult.

in that case let them give the CHOICE to buy this service. not everyone is interested in an annoying baby sitter!

most of us just want to access the game we bought. simple as that. so paying for a service you

didn't want just to access what you want is really poor. this is why live is criticized and it's a fair point.