Gotta say i'm worried about the AI, not only do i think they're not a good design decision but the devs haven't given any clue as to why they're so bad. Concerning given how quick they jumped on the lower res textures with an excuse.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Gotta say i'm worried about the AI, not only do i think they're not a good design decision but the devs haven't given any clue as to why they're so bad. Concerning given how quick they jumped on the lower res textures with an excuse.
Tried the game over the weekend at a friends, the game is definitely fast paced, AI for the bots is shit right now, I hope they fix this up, the game is definitely fun and you do get the sense of a wow moment every once in a while, if you've played COD then you'll be right at home though crosshairs is really not that important, as for it being fresh and new, I wouldn't go that far, it brings arcade shooters back to it's root( think MW1 mp) it's definitely not a bad game, but anyone saying it's fresh and new and brings new life into MP online shooters are way over hyping the game! It's fun and cool and very enjoyable.
It's COD with mechs alright. Was anyone expecting any different?
Looking forward to the damage control from the bad AI too. Bu bu but muh cloud!
Well, its a good thing that you can't play it then, isn't it?
Why not? It's on 360 and PC too.
Oh wait, damn, it's an EA game. I'm avoiding them like the plague. Oh well.
@GrenadeLauncher:
And I don't consider those people to be gamers to begin with.
A gamer is someone who games. I really don't like elitist attitude. It's silly.
It looks pretty intense, the mech battles mixed in with the folks on the ground looks like a lot of fun. I hope that you can step on people though...
It looks pretty good. :)
I'm sort of surprised they put the AI soldiers in there. They don't seem to really do anything other than to make the player feel good about himself. Also, as it's been pointed out, the HUD is sort of a mess, and your "commander" needs to shut his mouth for more than three seconds. I figure that's the kind of stuff that will be dealt with in the final version.
It will probably review well. I'll wait for reviews and probably get it on PC if Origin doesn't screw up the release.
@lostrib:
Yet Battlefield didn't realistically start doing well until single player was added. If multiplayer is the only thing people are doing in the popular games, why would any company focus on single player? Wouldn't they save millions? And show me a multiplayer only $60 release to ever do exceptionally well.
The Main battlefield series wasn't really multiplat until BF3. And BF2 sold a million in its first month, which was pretty good for a PC exclusive at the time. And who knows why they added single player, maybe to show off fancy frostbite graphics and compete with cod. Let's see $60 multiplayer release to do exceptionally well? Well there are $50 dollar ones since that was the price at the time. WoW, GW2/GW. But honestly, the fact is that many people buy games like Battlefield and COD simply for the multiplayer without ever feeling a need to touch the singleplayer so why not cut it out.
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
Haters gonna hate, but this game is going to be one of the defining games of the gen. It plays great and has a very fast tempo. Those comparing it to COD are gonna look foolish. About the only thing it has similar to COD is the fact that you have a gun. I doubted the game just looking at footage, but it is the real deal.
Lol only having a gun, the gunplay (what 90% of a shooter is about) is identical, same art style and colour palette, same animations and even the same font on the HUD.
If someone had told me this was the next CoD game set in the future i wouldn't even question them off the footage.
Come back after you've played the game. It feels nothing like COD, trust me. I can understand your thoughts, but it really feels nothing like it.
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
Shouldn't awards be given after the game is out and not a demo?
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
You know Hitman: Absolution won best game at E3 not long ago right?
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
Shouldn't awards be given after the game is out and not a demo?
No. These are for the best showings at large events, such as E3. The rules are here. They are based on time spent with the game, or whether they were the best showing. They are pre-release awards.
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
You know Hitman: Absolution won best game at E3 not long ago right?
But Titanfall is winning all of the awards from every publication. 1 or 2 sites praising it would be one thing, but all of them? Come on guys. Wake up. I am not saying that it will be the game of the generation or anything. But why can't people come to terms with the fact that this game will be good?
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
Shouldn't awards be given after the game is out and not a demo?
No. These are for the best showings at large events, such as E3. The rules are here. They are based on time spent with the game, or whether they were the best showing. They are pre-release awards.
I realize that. It's still not a clear indicator. That would be like giving out awards for movie trailers. Don't tell me they do that now as well.:(
You should listen to the guys talking in the lobby of a game. Almost everyone who's played the game talks about how impressive the game is. I was on the fence about this game, but after playing it, I'm sold 100%. Check my post history, I'm not one to hype games just because they're popular or to be a fanboi. But this game is gonna be a gen defining game.
And to touch on the point of it being like COD... This quote was copied for a guy on Neogaf. He summed up my some of my thoughts perfectly.
Originally Posted by Garrett 2U at http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97807070&postcount=673
Having played a bunch of TitanFall and a ton of COD, here is my opinion on the gameplay...
Don't judge it by watching a video of someone who is new to the game.
Once you learn how to play, you're not just standing still shooting at players like in COD.
People who have learned the game a bit more actually use jump, thrusters, and wall running while in gunfights.
When I'm using a shotgun and a guy is a bit out of my range shooting at me, I don't spray at him or hide... I jump onto the wall, run on it towards him gaining momentum, jump off it, jetpack behind him, and destroy him.
When there's an enemy in a window, I don't go inside the building, run up the stairs while checking for claymores... I run up the wall to the window, jump backwards and shoot him through the window while in mid air.
When I'm pinned in a hallway, out numbered in a gunfight, I don't turn around and try to outrun them down the hall or drop to the ground and spray&pray, I wall jump up the walls of the hallway, onto the roof and gain a new perspective.
If I'm in a fight on the street and I see two players, I don't need to hide to get the jump on them. I kill one of them, jump while the other is turning on me, Jetpack when he starts to aim, and then kill him too.
It does not play like COD once you learn the movement system, and that contributes heavily to the gunplay.
And that doesn't even include the Titan vs Titan stuff, or Titan vs Pilot, which are all completely unique as well.
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
Shouldn't awards be given after the game is out and not a demo?
No. These are for the best showings at large events, such as E3. The rules are here. They are based on time spent with the game, or whether they were the best showing. They are pre-release awards.
I realize that. It's still not a clear indicator. That would be like giving out awards for movie trailers. Don't tell me they do that now as well.:(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Trailer_Awards
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
Shouldn't awards be given after the game is out and not a demo?
No. These are for the best showings at large events, such as E3. The rules are here. They are based on time spent with the game, or whether they were the best showing. They are pre-release awards.
I realize that. It's still not a clear indicator. That would be like giving out awards for movie trailers. Don't tell me they do that now as well.:(
No, and I don't think it's really meant to be seen as one. The above poster is correct, in the sense that these are people who have hands-on experience with the game.
The closest we'd have for movies, would be something like the Cannes Film Festival, where movies are previewed and given awards. They watch the whole movie, though many of these pre-show awards for gaming are based on experience. Though i'm not sure if they have to give the award to a game they actually played.
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
Shouldn't awards be given after the game is out and not a demo?
No. These are for the best showings at large events, such as E3. The rules are here. They are based on time spent with the game, or whether they were the best showing. They are pre-release awards.
I realize that. It's still not a clear indicator. That would be like giving out awards for movie trailers. Don't tell me they do that now as well.:(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Trailer_Awards
Well that's just....sad.
@lundy86_4:
Yet I can gaurentee they are don't have hands on experience with anything close to a finished product. Do you think that these people were under the impression that the vast majority of the game would be using bots? Titanfall certainly wouldn't be the first game to win awards based off of early builds and tech demos, only to have a poor final product.
@lundy86_4:
Yet I can gaurentee they are don't have hands on experience with anything close to a finished product. Do you think that these people were under the impression that the vast majority of the game would be using bots? Titanfall certainly wouldn't be the first game to win awards based off of early builds and tech demos, only to have a poor final product.
That needed a guarantee? How about a "That's fucking obvious" stamp... From me, to you.
Stop speculating... It's boring.
@lundy86_4:
Everybody here is only speculating. Yet the lemming population is viewing this game as the second coming of Christ.
Gotta say i'm worried about the AI, not only do i think they're not a good design decision but the devs haven't given any clue as to why they're so bad. Concerning given how quick they jumped on the lower res textures with an excuse.
i think the AI is bad so that people can go on a killstreak and get their titan.
I kept telling certain people here this would be COD 2.0 and while some realized that, there's those that refused to believe me.
Hope that crow tastes good.
@KBFloYd:
Well they did say the bots were put there to balance the game.
Translation? The market this game is directed toward isn't good enough to play against more than 6 real players.
I dont know how unique a multiplayer FPS with guns and mechs was supposed to be. I keep reading this expectation from a lot of people that this game was supposed to be a totally new concept. Its an old concept reinvigorated with new game mechanics and based on the various awards it has won I can only guess that the developers have done a fantastic job. Everyone who has had a hands on experience of this game has praised it and that is far more meaningful to me that speculation from some forum dwellers based on Alpha footage.
Thus far there is nothing to suggest the game doesnt deserve the hype it is receiving and numerous reasons to suggest it does. So why not just pause the speculative negativity and wait for some real news. I for one am predicting a big system selling title when this gets bundled.
@always_explicit:
Bundles don't mean system sellers. Especially when the game is available on two other platforms that most of these people already have.
Kinect Adventures was the top selling Xbox 360 game due to bundles. Did that make it a system seller ?
Of course bundles mean system sellers. Its not a convoluted point im trying to make. Im not instigating a debate its just an obvious outcome of a great game being bundled with a console.
Person X wants a next gen console, Person X likes the look of titanfall/hears the titanfall hype. Person X buys an X1.
Of course person X might buy it for PC or 360 but its entirely subjective and hardly worthy of debate. The fact is a sizeable portion of Titanfall sales would undoubtedly come through an X1 bundle. If this wasnt the case then MS would not bother to do so.
The entire Halo franchise were top selling 360 games....pretty sure they helped push some system sales.
Its not half the game though,,, thats your opinion based on "What you expecT" not what is fact.
as pointed out already, been pleanty of full price MP only shooters in the past. before the time of craptastic michael bay 6 hourcampaigns which suck and then most of the community complain that the resources would of been better spent on bettering the MP.
oh sure people play the SP ... because its there, then you have that minority (or far less people than the MP fans) of say CoD that buy the games for just the SP.... they could remove the SP and still retain 90% of the sales, I gaurentee it.
You think 99% of the people bought BF4 because of its campaign? no .... i'd be suprised if 1% gave a damn.... utter tripe.
Yes it is half a game is not my opinion it lacks campaign mode.
Multiplayer is a way to extent the life of a game not to totally replace campaign with nothing but multiplayer,in fact many people who don't even have online play COD,the majority of the xbox 360 user base don't even pay for xbox live 23 million vs 57 million that don't pay so yeah single player campaign still is a big deal.
Please the name the only multiplayer games in the past that have been price $60.
Warhawk come to mine and it cost me on launch $39.99 and yeah is multiplayer only.
People play single player because it has always been there way more than multiplayer that is a fact you don't even want to debate,since the first FPS appear they had single player.
Oh and that 1% argument was pull from deep deep down your ass...Without anything to back it up..lol
Its not half the game though,,, thats your opinion based on "What you expecT" not what is fact.
as pointed out already, been pleanty of full price MP only shooters in the past. before the time of craptastic michael bay 6 hourcampaigns which suck and then most of the community complain that the resources would of been better spent on bettering the MP.
oh sure people play the SP ... because its there, then you have that minority (or far less people than the MP fans) of say CoD that buy the games for just the SP.... they could remove the SP and still retain 90% of the sales, I gaurentee it.
You think 99% of the people bought BF4 because of its campaign? no .... i'd be suprised if 1% gave a damn.... utter tripe.
Yes it is half a game is not my opinion it lacks campaign mode.
Multiplayer is a way to extent the life of a game not to totally replace campaign with nothing but multiplayer,in fact many people who don't even have online play COD,the majority of the xbox 360 user base don't even pay for xbox live 23 million vs 57 million that don't pay so yeah single player campaign still is a big deal.
Please the name the only multiplayer games in the past that have been price $60.
Warhawk come to mine and it cost me on launch $39.99 and yeah is multiplayer only.
People play single player because it has always been there way more than multiplayer that is a fact you don't even want to debate,since the first FPS appear they had single player.
Oh and that 1% argument was pull from deep deep down your ass...Without anything to back it up..lol
just like your entire post then?
57 million people bought cod for 360?
Battlefield for a start... Unreal Tournament (both just bots.)
not that it matters, its not a FACT that a game needs single player to be full price, your talking out of your arse. by your logic a SP game should not be full price because it doesn't have multiplayer.... utter hypocritical bulls*it.
Its not half the game though,,, thats your opinion based on "What you expecT" not what is fact.
as pointed out already, been pleanty of full price MP only shooters in the past. before the time of craptastic michael bay 6 hourcampaigns which suck and then most of the community complain that the resources would of been better spent on bettering the MP.
oh sure people play the SP ... because its there, then you have that minority (or far less people than the MP fans) of say CoD that buy the games for just the SP.... they could remove the SP and still retain 90% of the sales, I gaurentee it.
You think 99% of the people bought BF4 because of its campaign? no .... i'd be suprised if 1% gave a damn.... utter tripe.
Yes it is half a game is not my opinion it lacks campaign mode.
Multiplayer is a way to extent the life of a game not to totally replace campaign with nothing but multiplayer,in fact many people who don't even have online play COD,the majority of the xbox 360 user base don't even pay for xbox live 23 million vs 57 million that don't pay so yeah single player campaign still is a big deal.
Please the name the only multiplayer games in the past that have been price $60.
Warhawk come to mine and it cost me on launch $39.99 and yeah is multiplayer only.
People play single player because it has always been there way more than multiplayer that is a fact you don't even want to debate,since the first FPS appear they had single player.
Oh and that 1% argument was pull from deep deep down your ass...Without anything to back it up..lol
excuse me when i blow up your perception. Would you call bioshock infinite half a game because it has no multiplayer? how about beyond two souls? how about counter strike or UC3 that have no single player? are those half games? how about knack, is that a half game? The fact its multiplayer only doesn't make ti a half game, would it be better if they tacked on some crappy 4 hour campaign like CoD or BF4? the answer is no. also XBL had over 46 million subscribers on the 360. with 80 million sold, 50% + of players had multiplayer. So again your logic is way off.
@lostrib:
Yet Battlefield didn't realistically start doing well until single player was added. If multiplayer is the only thing people are doing in the popular games, why would any company focus on single player? Wouldn't they save millions? And show me a multiplayer only $60 release to ever do exceptionally well.
The Main battlefield series wasn't really multiplat until BF3. And BF2 sold a million in its first month, which was pretty good for a PC exclusive at the time. And who knows why they added single player, maybe to show off fancy frostbite graphics and compete with cod. Let's see $60 multiplayer release to do exceptionally well? Well there are $50 dollar ones since that was the price at the time. WoW, GW2/GW. But honestly, the fact is that many people buy games like Battlefield and COD simply for the multiplayer without ever feeling a need to touch the singleplayer so why not cut it out.
Total lie BF2 was $39.99 dude not $50....
http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/06/19/battlefield-2
And certainly not $60 like Titanfall will be,on and on those times there wasn't abusive nickel and dime like now there is.
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
The fact that this game won best original game basically kill any notion that this game is even been seen fairly vs other games and that is just been rated because is Respawn new game and they make COD 4 so the game most be great.
WTF does Titanfall has that is original,is a FPS from the creators of COD4,in the same style of COD,with mech robots (killzone say high) crappy gun recoil and fast gameplay like COD.
There is nothing fu**ing original about this game nothing,because even bots have been done before to death.
Now i get the game seem fun in the same COD sense of fun,but original GTFO no way in hell.
Please feel free to point in what regard Titanfall is original..
You should listen to the guys talking in the lobby of a game. Almost everyone who's played the game talks about how impressive the game is. I was on the fence about this game, but after playing it, I'm sold 100%. Check my post history, I'm not one to hype games just because they're popular or to be a fanboi. But this game is gonna be a gen defining game.
And to touch on the point of it being like COD... This quote was copied for a guy on Neogaf. He summed up my some of my thoughts perfectly.
Originally Posted by Garrett 2U at http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97807070&postcount=673
Having played a bunch of TitanFall and a ton of COD, here is my opinion on the gameplay...
Don't judge it by watching a video of someone who is new to the game.
Once you learn how to play, you're not just standing still shooting at players like in COD.
People who have learned the game a bit more actually use jump, thrusters, and wall running while in gunfights.
When I'm using a shotgun and a guy is a bit out of my range shooting at me, I don't spray at him or hide... I jump onto the wall, run on it towards him gaining momentum, jump off it, jetpack behind him, and destroy him.
When there's an enemy in a window, I don't go inside the building, run up the stairs while checking for claymores... I run up the wall to the window, jump backwards and shoot him through the window while in mid air.
When I'm pinned in a hallway, out numbered in a gunfight, I don't turn around and try to outrun them down the hall or drop to the ground and spray&pray, I wall jump up the walls of the hallway, onto the roof and gain a new perspective.
If I'm in a fight on the street and I see two players, I don't need to hide to get the jump on them. I kill one of them, jump while the other is turning on me, Jetpack when he starts to aim, and then kill him too.
It does not play like COD once you learn the movement system, and that contributes heavily to the gunplay.
And that doesn't even include the Titan vs Titan stuff, or Titan vs Pilot, which are all completely unique as well.
Dude this game is COD i saw all the videos the recoil almost the same,and even the presentation scream COD all over,the only thing that set this game apart is the high jumps walk running and robots.
Once you learn to play lol all the videos show clearly this game scream COD,which is what EA really want to begin with something to try to steal players from COD.
just like your entire post then?
57 million people bought cod for 360?
Battlefield for a start... Unreal Tournament (both just bots.)
not that it matters, its not a FACT that a game needs single player to be full price, your talking out of your arse. by your logic a SP game should not be full price because it doesn't have multiplayer.... utter hypocritical bulls*it.
Prove it prove to me with links that only 1% of people who buy games like COD play single player campaign.
BF2 wasn't $60 dollars it was $39.99 on 2005.
No 57 million xbox 360 owners didn't pay for xbox live,which give you an idea of how big single player still is.
Yes it does an online only $60 dollar game is a rip off,moron games were $70 dollars on Nes and Snes with single player,on PS1 $50 with single player,on PS2 $50 single player,or single player with multiplayer part,Socom didn't cost me $80 because it had both modes,and back then it was by far the most popular online game on consoles,Halo 2 didn't cost $80 dollars because it had mutiplayer and single player,hell the first Halo didn't even have online multiplayer,neither did Golden Eye on N64 or Medal of honor on PS.
Games were single player first multiplayer was add as a way to extend the life of the games + play with people distant to you,also on PS because it was a need because playing 2 persons on 1 keyboard was horrible,not to replace single player completely this is a FACT not my opinion.
So if a multiplayer only game is $60 it is fair that developers rise the price to $90 and charge you $30 more if you want single player.?
darkangel115
excuse me when i blow up your perception. Would you call bioshock infinite half a game because it has no multiplayer? how about beyond two souls? how about counter strike or UC3 that have no single player? are those half games? how about knack, is that a half game? The fact its multiplayer only doesn't make ti a half game, would it be better if they tacked on some crappy 4 hour campaign like CoD or BF4? the answer is no. also XBL had over 46 million subscribers on the 360. with 80 million sold, 50% + of players had multiplayer. So again your logic is way off.
Single player has always cost full price regardless of having multiplayer or not,there are more single player games in the console history way way more than games with both modes and infinite times more games with single player than those with just multiplayer.
Multiplayer is something that is expected now,not something that always has been there.
By your logic Rockstart should charge you $100 for GTA because the first 5 chapters were offline and all were $50,so going by the logic that a game with only multiplayer can be sold by $60,they Rockstart should charge you $100 or even more because they are giving you 2 modes for 1 price.
Uncharted 3 has multiplayer and single player dude what the hell are you smocking..
XBL has 46 million subscriber from which half are gold half silver,MS join both silver and gold this was confirmed ages ago,so they have 46 million account between both and 34 million don't even have a gold or silver account...
Ok so Titanfall won Best of Show, Best Original Game, Best Console Game, Best PC Game, Best Action Game, and Best Online Multiplayer at the E3 Game Critics awards. It also cleaned up at TGS, PAX and Gamescom. Do the trolls here really think they are going to squash the hype on this game? The people who voted for this game to win all of these awards ACTUALLY PLAYED the game. I think I will take their word for it over Tormentos.
Just because a game has lots of hype and a huge marketing campaign doesnt mean it will definitely turn out great....
@always_explicit:
You still can't prove systems wouldn't have sold otherwise without the game bundled. You also can't prove how well the game would have sold on its own.
I had this argument with a drone on Xbox.com about a year ago where I showed him comparisons of games with bundled and non bundled installments. With each game, the non bundled installment sold substantially lower and in some cases, the bundled installment sold a few million copies while the non bundled installment struggled to hit 500k. In a couple instances, the same game had a bundle for one console and no bundle for another. The version without the bundle was a flop while the version with the bundle sold excellent. This was with one of the Lego Batmans If I remember correctly.
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