To the people who say blu-ray isnt necessary

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]

Well, firstly the 360's CPU isn't great, compared to the PS3's and modern PC CPUs, and secondly RAM is also a limiting factor.

But the bottom line is, that no matter how many textures Blu-ray allows you to cram in (and it's a lot, since Blu-rays space allows a lot of room and textures take up comparitively little space), you cannot do more than your hardware can handle.

rko07

Your beliefs aren't circumventing the fact that Blu-ray provides minimal benefits for an exaggerated cost.

Whether it's needed or not I don't know. Two games I own that supposedely were impossible on DVD-9, RFoM and Motorstorm, were nothing more then standard fare. Motorstorm even lacked features seen in racers from generations ago. Now Lair is the next 3 gb level, only possible on BD game, and so far the onl;y credible reviews are very unfavorable with no mention of massive levels, longer campaigns, or textures just impossible anywhere else.

I do love uncompressed audio, but it ranks pretty low on must- have- advantages of a console.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]

Well, firstly the 360's CPU isn't great, compared to the PS3's and modern PC CPUs, and secondly RAM is also a limiting factor.

But the bottom line is, that no matter how many textures Blu-ray allows you to cram in (and it's a lot, since Blu-rays space allows a lot of room and textures take up comparitively little space), you cannot do more than your hardware can handle.

rko07

im kinda torn on this.

on the one hand it looks like games are going to get a little to big for a single DVD 9 disc. there is the multiplt disc route though which doesent bother me but may annoy others. however the DVD drive in the 360 is much better at loading than the PS3 drive due to its better seeking times. still some devs certainly arent happy with the decision. games will get bigger and sooner or later the low capacity is going to come back to haunt MS. its a matter of how much MS can help keep this ghost at bay. the DVD drive in the 360 is also very loud...something i dont like seeing in a console.

on the other hand BR certainly offers the capacity but the drive is just too slow. a 2X BR drive is not good enough, just like the 2X dvd drive in the PS2 was rubbish. sure it can take data off the disc at near 12x dvd speeds but it takes the drive longer to find that data. when devs are filling the disc with dummy data and putting multiple copies of the game on one disc to optimise loading....something has gone wrong. then theres that $200 price hike due to its inclusion.....seriously not worth it imho.

consoles are not about geting the very best into a small box...there about eeking out as much performance and storage for every dollar spent on the machine. imho both sony and MS made the wrong call. they both forgot option 3.....a custom built drive and disc (not carts...no good for consoles obhiously) optimised for games from the ground up and cheap to produce. the drive in the 360 has to stick to DVD standards since it is a dvd drive using dvd discs. they cant change the way the drive fundimentally works or change the way the disc is accessed since it has to conform to strict DVD standards. same applies to blu-ray. These are movie formats for crying out loud. they were designed and built for streaming data off a disc...useless for games really.

overall im with MS though.....the benefits of blu-ray as a gaming format does now outway the costs. ill take multiple discs over a $200 price hike any day. however if they just built a disc with around 15GB (that should be fine for any game this gen really) on it and implemented a quieter drive that was optimised to get data off any part of the disc as fast as possible then i would be a very happy bunny. same applies to sony of course.

[QUOTE="blues3531"][QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="E_x_i_l_e"][QUOTE="Legendaryscmt"]

Lets see, what games now use over the space of a DVD?

It isn't needed right now, not saying that it shouldn't be used for gaming. If I have a DVD player that works and is old as hell, why should I spend more money for a new one that does the same exact thing? If I have a TV that's over 10 years old that works, why should I spend more money for another TV when it does the same exact thing? Sometimes more advanced technology isn't needed.

Blackbond

Lair is 25GB, The Gamer's Day demo of Uncharted was larger than 10GB, .. ya..

Factor 5's Julian Eggebrect

GZ: How many hours of gameplay do you anticipate this game will have?

Julian:It depends on how good you are as a player. Some missions you might get on the first go and some you may take 10 go's and it will last much, much longer. We are saying, in general, 12 hours, and that is without a lot of the replay value.

25GB's for a 12 hour game? What is this some sort of joke?

no the game has huge levels, i think the demo level of kz2 was 15 minutes, yeah 2gb, not fitting that whole game on dvd9 and its mainly cuz these levels dont use backdrops everything is actually physically rendered in objects with textures and such

Uh huh and so why doesn't a game like Crysis take up 25GB hmm? Is it because it takes place in open area environments? The high level of detail that destroys Killzone 2 and Lair? The advanced Physicas and destructable enviroments? Please explain to me how a game that isn't on the same graphical level takes up 25GB while Crysis doesn't. I'd really love to know. I mean PC's have generated huge worlds forever because of that thing that every PC has. What is that thing again....darn what's it called oh yeah a Hardrive. Wait doesn't every PS3 have a Hardrive too? Well then hell if PC doesn't need Blu-Ray then why does PS3? They chould theoretically just equip it with a large HDD and not use Blu-Ray. It would be cheaper and just as effective.

yea but first of all u dont know how big crysis is, it could possibly be 2 or 3 dvds doubtful but u never know, and 2 pc games are installed completely on the harddrive the disc is just needed to verify the game and load it up, console games cant do that they play the game off the disc because the harddrives are no where near big enough to be storing every game u own for your ps3 or 360

I love how the TC makes a topic agreeing Blu Ray is not necessary:

The answer is no technology is necessary,

Blu Ray is good for games but when it comes to DVDs I am happy with the standard.

PelekotansDream

umm yea it isnt NECESSARY but it sure does help things improve right, my point was that its gonna have a future in games and movies but people are acting like since we dont need it, itll never have a place in our world, well we dont really need most technological items

all i know is , im buying 300 on blu ray today YAAAAymazdaspeed-rx8

Oohh YEAA!! Actually Satruday for me :P.

ooo... tha sucks...but why cant they just make it downloadable content?omarguy01

Yep, maybe so..but they will probably charge for it and guess what? HDDs aren't standard for 360. :|

Multi disc games, it wasn't a problem for gamers on the PS1. Unless of course you are to lazy to go and actually get of the sofa and change disc.PelekotansDream

It was certainly something I wouldn't want to have to deal with again.

Legend of Dragoon didn't have the entire world map on each disc so later on when you could travel freely you had to insert a new disc every time you moved to a different continent.

FFVII had most of the game on one disc and then later you switched discs twice in a period of a few hours.

I had to buy a new copy of Arc the Lad Collection at very significant cost to myself when I found the used copy I bought had one disc that was scratched and wouldn't play after a point.

why not... we've been disk swapping for YEARS... and NOONE EVER had a prob with it, until sony arrived and try to sell the bluray idea....

so far, what game has been proven to need bluray? yep...NONE.....:lol:

tango90101

I've always had a problem with it, but of course I expect unfounded umbrella statements and historical revisionism from you.

im kinda torn on this.

on the one hand it looks like games are going to get a little to big for a single DVD 9 disc. there is the multiplt disc route though which doesent bother me but may annoy others. however the DVD drive in the 360 is much better at loading than the PS3 drive due to its better seeking times. still some devs certainly arent happy with the decision. games will get bigger and sooner or later the low capacity is going to come back to haunt MS. its a matter of how much MS can help keep this ghost at bay. the DVD drive in the 360 is also very loud...something i dont like seeing in a console.

on the other hand BR certainly offers the capacity but the drive is just too slow. a 2X BR drive is not good enough, just like the 2X dvd drive in the PS2 was rubbish. sure it can take data off the disc at near 12x dvd speeds but it takes the drive longer to find that data. when devs are filling the disc with dummy data and putting multiple copies of the game on one disc to optimise loading....something has gone wrong. then theres that $200 price hike due to its inclusion.....seriously not worth it imho.

consoles are not about geting the very best into a small box...there about eeking out as much performance and storage for every dollar spent on the machine. imho both sony and MS made the wrong call. they both forgot option 3.....a custom built drive and disc (not carts...no good for consoles obhiously) optimised for games from the ground up and cheap to produce. the drive in the 360 has to stick to DVD standards since it is a dvd drive using dvd discs. they cant change the way the drive fundimentally works or change the way the disc is accessed since it has to conform to strict DVD standards. same applies to blu-ray. These are movie formats for crying out loud. they were designed and built for streaming data off a disc...useless for games really.

overall im with MS though.....the benefits of blu-ray as a gaming format does now outway the costs. ill take multiple discs over a $200 price hike any day. however if they just built a disc with around 15GB (that should be fine for any game this gen really) on it and implemented a quieter drive that was optimised to get data off any part of the disc as fast as possible then i would be a very happy bunny. same applies to sony of course.

osan0

Well Said and I agree with you.

Bluray is outselling HDDVD... as far as the discs goSushimaster

True, but how many years will it take to overtake normal DVDs?

[QUOTE="Sushimaster"]Bluray is outselling HDDVD... as far as the discs goPlaneforger

True, but how many years will it take to overtake normal DVDs?

Well DVD sales are stagnant or declining and theres due to be 50 million US homes with HDTVs by 2008 according to some reports I've read, so we'll see but it will happen.