AdobeArtist said:
@SolidTy said:
Yes, I know this but like the upcoming Street Fighter 5 (and many other instances, like Final Fantasy 15 and many others), Sony doesn't view the PC as a threat and the PC ports of TR weren't an issue to Sony. I've already had this discussion for what seems close to 2 decades, I don't need to go over it again to play System Wars "semantics" (console exclusives, etc). Yes, the TR series was a console exclusive at one time and this upcoming Rise TR game is also a timed exclusive (for 360 and Xbone, so playing SW semantics, Rise TR isn't exclusive! Don't tell M$ though, they keep saying exclusive...). So, Tomb Raider was not always multiplatform when talking consoles, but when including PC, yes obviously it was multiplatform. However, I wasn't talking about PC because that other user trolling me wasn't talking about PC when he initiated this encounter that you inserted yourself into to play "SW word games". I don't have time to write an entire book in SW. People have to put the rest together. I'm glad to clarify the Playstation console exclusive TR games with you though, because it happened.
If we can disregard handhelds, we can disregard PC too, because I was talking of the console exclusive TR games.
You are right about short sighted apologists, they need to stop spreading the myth that TR wasn't a console exclusive franchise at one time. As much as they wish it wasn't true, the reality is it was a series exclusive to the Playstation 1 consoles, a console exclusive. The PS2 came along and the very first Tomb Raider in 2003 Angel of Darkness was ONLY for PS2 (not GC/Xbox). That TR Angel was MORE than a console exclusive, it was exclusive and only for PS2. You discounted the handheld games which I'm fine with, but the TR handheld games were exclusive too.
The three handheld TR games also prove you wrong (TR, TR Curse, and TR prophecy) with the statement "ALWAYS been multiplatform". The three handheld games weren't multiplatform. PS2 TR Angel wasn't on GC/DC/Xbox. TR2 and TR3 were console exclusive to PS1 with PC ports. I also am taking this time to clarify I was speaking of consoles exclusives (the PC market wasn't what it is today btw) and TR2 and TR3 were both only for PS1 at that time (disregarding the PC ports, hence console exclusive). I know SW frowns on such a term, but I'm speaking about reality right now (the industry has called these games exclusive in articles all across the net, because they aren't playing the SW Semantics game). The user Xhawk used the term exclusive and I obliged him simply to inform him I didn't like TR when it was found on the PS systems nor do I care for the upcoming TR 360/Xbone/more platforms either.
I was talking about consoles which TR2 and TR3 were for only PS and not Saturn and N64, although TR1 was for Saturn. Obviously though, the EXCLUSIVE PS2 Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness followed after the multiplatform PS1/DC TR Chronicles.
How does the myth persist that TR didn't have console exclusive entries? TR2 and TR3 were console exclusive and TR: Angel was only for PS2 (not GC/Xbox). Every now and again, I catch short sighted apologists trying to rewrite history. Either way, this is far off base from my point which is I don't care for Tomb Raider.
OK, so that was a big chunk of your post too big to quote, but the end line pretty much sums up your fallacy.
I mean I can't believe you are actually making the argument for "console exclusives". Really? I mean... REALLY?? You've been here long enough to see how much this has been beaten to death, and certainly to know that it's been repeatedly overruled by the community as a completely misguided fabrication on the weakest of strawman arguments.
PC isn't dismissed just because it's inconvenient to your position. How many times have we heard, "you don't need an Xbox 360 to play such and such game because it's also on PC". Same applies here for the TR games, new and old. And one single installment out of 9 doesn't make an entire series (or even half it) exclusive. I said that the greater part of the series was multiplatform when only 1 release wasn't is a very small fraction of the overall franchise.
Oh so Sony didn't think PC mattered to the gaming market? How nice for them. Because as far as the gaming consumers were concerned, it mattered plenty. How Sony "felt" about PC then and now is irrelevant, as is your notion of "console exclusive". You're a SW vet around her so do I actually need to bring up that this board isn't called "console wars"? Do I?
The only one trying to rewrite history is you, SolidTy, by applying your own narrow definitions to exclusive (as a matter of convenience), which as it's been reiterated time and again, doesn't hold water. How ever you personally choose to remember TR history, is just a minor voice drowned out by the chorus of factual history.
How does this change or alter my point TO THE OTHER USER THAT WAS TROLLING ME with the word "exclusive" that I didn't like Tomb Raider when it was created or now? A user said that I don't like Rise because it's coming to 360/Xbone and called it exclusive when clearly Rise is not exclusive. I didn't want to play semantics with him as I understood what he meant. My rebuttal was that I didn't like TR when it wasn't on Xbox/GC/N64/Saturn, etc...but I would have possibly lost the user, so I used the term the user used, "exclusive". That's when you came in. I'm explaining to him that TR releasing on a platform has no bearing on me liking or disliking it. You are trying to argue SW Semantics on how to use the word exclusive. Totally irrelevant. I didn't like TR when it started as a multiplatform game. I didn't like TR when it was a console exclusive. I didn't like Tomb Raider when it it had handheld exclusives. I didn't like TR when it was an EXCLUSIVE PS2 game. I didn't like TR when it was multiplat again.
Line two? Covered it SW Semantics regarding console exclusives. Really. Get over it. I was never talking to you and making a simple point to ANOTHER USER who brought up "exclusive" incorrectly. I went with his mentality and explained it on his terms. I'm not playing SW word game, I'm talking reality to a user with misconceptions that you weren't involved in. The reality was TR started as a mulitplatform game and shifted to PS1, CORE ditching the Saturn and N64 when TR2 released. I'm just repeating myself because you want to play SW semantics, but it is pointless. You got your clarification ON WHAT I MEANT TO THE OTHER USER on a very minor point that I was saying to the other user and you now want to argue Semantics still? Really? After I clarified the A+ B conversation? Pointless.
PC is dismissed, done (because the person I was talking too dismissed it when he referred to exclusives)...just like handhelds were dismissed which was a matter of convenience for you. Especially considering how tiny the PC market was then...not that should affect the fact that TR2/3 wasn't on Saturn or N64 at the time (there was no XBOX in existence). I was talking about TR2, TR3, and the very specific and you can't pretend it doesn't exist PS2 TR: Angel of Darkness (not for GC/Xbox). If we let in PC, we should let in Handhelds. Handhelds then wouldn't be dismissed either which were exclusive. Who cares? I simply said I don't care for the games. The industry, btw, refers to the PS exclusive era all the time and many times in previous EGM, Next Generation, Game Pro, and more magazines I own. Too bad those magazines don't post in SW either. It's an industry term, an term the user who quoted me was making a point that I would have enjoyed PS TR console exclusives which existed. I did NOT enjoy them, and I wanted to point out he was wrong about what I enjoy.
PC and handhelds were dismissed when I was talking to the other user because the other user dismissed a possible PC port of Rise of the TR in this thread. I was playing Devi's Advocate and the 'console exclusive' game with him and you interrupted for whatever reason.
Let me refresh his statement which you conveniently sidestepped to protect on his behalf:
"Something tells me if Sony had made it an Exclusive you would have cared about TR. lol"
To reason with users, you have to be willing to explain things on their level, but you failed to see the big picture. He made a quick point about exclusives clearly disregarding Rise is coming to both the 360 and Xbone, and has been announced as a timed exclusive. Instead of arguing semantics with him, I opted to go to his world and explain it simply...and that's where you came in, butting into a conversation started by a trolling comment where I explained to him I never cared for TR. Semantics aside.
Again, you are so lost in your diatribe you missed the person who quoted me and what the discussion was about, generally I said I don't care for the TR games.
YOU, Adobeartist are simply trying to rewrite history and hide behind SW semantics to pretend there was a time TR was NOT console exclusive. Deals were struck back then, much like Street Fighter 5 for PC/PS4 and Rise of the TR for 360/Xbone/future platforms.
I've clarified my stance and arguing semantics won't change reality that TR2 and TR3 games did not release on the Saturn and N64 after TR1 things changed. PC ports aside because I WAS TALKING to the other user about a different era BECAUSE that same user considers the upcoming TR game to be "exclusive" even though it's already been announced for two platforms (360/Xbone) and more platforms in the future. I understood what he meant and I explained on his terms. You interfering with that convo/process doesn't change my point that I didn't like the TR series when it was console exclusive to PS nor do I care when it's console exclusive to the Xbox brand.
Also, I specifically cited TR Angel of Darkness which was a PS2 exclusive not for GC/Xbox. Even furthermore, the handheld games ARE included in SW and they were exclusive.
What's your point in the end?
You inserted yourself into a situation you didn't fully comprehend, where users and a particular user made a silly statement.
You want it to be acknowledged that the PC/PS1 TR2/TR3 games existed? I did that. Doesn't change my point AT ALL those games did not come to the popular and relevant consoles of the time, Saturn and N64. Which was my point when the user references Rise of the TR being"exclusve" when it's not.
You failed to address PS2 TR Angel of Darkness was not on GC/Xbox.
Still, pointless since ridiculous semantics arguing is NOT related to my point. My point being, when TR was console exclusive to PS (TR2, TR3) with PC ports available, I didn't give a damn for TR.
When TR released only for (TR Angel) PS2, I didn't give a damn.(Which would mirror the original users point as he claimed I would have enjoyed that TR title by comparison to this Rise of the TR 360/Xbone deal).
When TR exclusive handheld games released, I didn't care.
When TR was multiplaform, I still didn't care.
When Rise of the TR was announced for my 360/Xbone machines with a timed deal announced, I still didn't care.
My point was I didn't like TR then or now. I don't care for the series. Always my point. Semantics arguing doesn't change my entire reason for posting in this thread.
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