Trophies Reflect Skill More than Achievements

And they both reflect a major waste of time and electricity.goblaa

Trophies and achievements have absolutely no bearing on "skill" in any particular game :|

-

If you want to know how good someone is at Call of Duty, look at their K : D ratio and W : L ratio. Ever see a tournament that qualified people based on their achievements or trophies?

1- STUPID Source 2- In terms of multiplats you get an achievement for the same thing you get a Trophy for :| 3- They both represent the same thing.....I did "blank" in "blank" game. Achievements and Trophies don't show how skilled a person is at the game.jg4xchamp

I agree with both of you in a wierd way.

You are correct, that in most multiplats, the acheivements are the same as the trophies and it takes the same amount of skill to get them.

However, I also agree that the trophy system offers more of a breakdown in the data, so it does SHOW more of the players skill than a simple gamer score. That doesn't mean that the gamers actually have more skill, though, just that you can more easily SEE who gets the hard achievements and who simply goes for a ton of the easy ones.

Also, the trophy system goes according to Level like in an RPG. Bronze trophies (easy achievements) raise your level a whole lot slower than silver, gold or platinum. I have more trophies than my brother, but our levels are almost identical because he has 100% for Uncharted (he owns it, I only borrowed it) and some Gold LBP trophies. Meanwhile, I've got a bad habbit of playing a ton of games at once and so it takes me way longer to get the high value achievements.

It is more of an appearance thing and not necessarily an actual reflection of gamer skill between consoles.

Trophies and achievements have absolutely no bearing on "skill" in any particular game :|

-

If you want to know how good someone is at Call of Duty, look at their K : D ratio and W : L ratio. Ever see a tournament that qualified people based on their achievements or trophies?

subrosian

One could argue that online is only one small factor to determining overall game skill. Especially since many people, such as myself, rarely play FPS OR online.

One could also argue that being awesome at Call of Duty only reflect skill in one game in one genre and not overall gamer skill. Achievements/trophies would reflect this. It would be like arguing someone who is good at football, but terrible at all other sports is a better athlete than someone who isn't as good at football but still skilled in all sports.

trophies reflect skill more than achievements . Agreed .

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

Trophies and achievements have absolutely no bearing on "skill" in any particular game :|

-

If you want to know how good someone is at Call of Duty, look at their K : D ratio and W : L ratio. Ever see a tournament that qualified people based on their achievements or trophies?

ZIMdoom

One could argue that online is only one small factor to determining overall game skill. Especially since many people, such as myself, rarely play FPS OR online.

One could also argue that being awesome at Call of Duty only reflect skill in one game in one genre and not overall gamer skill. Achievements/trophies would reflect this. It would be like arguing someone who is good at football, but terrible at all other sports is a better athlete than someone who isn't as good at football but still skilled in all sports.

When did I EVER claim skill at CoD had any bearing on skill at any other game? :|

-

That's the problem with trophies / achievements in the first place, while someone can have overall "familiarity" or "experience" with gaming, or certain genres, that doesn't mean they're going to be better than anyone else at any particular game.

i think people are getting to caught up in the term "skill" and are missing the entire point of this article/blog...

he's not saying that trophies take more skill to obtain than acheivements and he isnt saying that having a number of trophies or acheivements dictates the level of skill you have at online multiplayer and the like.. he's simply saying that a trophycard more readily shows the level of a player's specific gaming accomplishments in comparison to an overall gamerscore.. the contrast of actually showing this person's platinum, gold, silver, and bronze trophies specifically rather than bunching everything up in a single total sum.. you get an instant understanding of whether this person goes for loads of easy accomplishments or if they've gone for the harder stuff.. beyond that, the idea that a platinum trophy readily reflects the fact that you're completed a game to 100% while an overall gamerscore cant readily display that type of information at a glance..

and lastly, there's the leveling system that takes things a step further.. you get a massive amount of points towards a next level for a platinum trophy.. gold trophies are worth alot aswell.. and then silver and bronze trophies are worth less and less respectively.. this matters because: 1) it adds another layer of depth to your classification.. it's like "sure, you have 110 trophies compared to my 64.. but i'm almost level 4 and you're still a level 2 because i've gone for the harder goals".. it's just an added way to seperate the peeps who ease by with easy trophies/acheivements and those hardcore gamers that go for platinums and 1000/1000.. and 2) at some point, since like in any RPG it takes progressively longer to level as the levels become higher, those bronze trophies eventually arent going to amount for much in terms of leveling.. which is just yet another factor that rewards those that strive for the silver, gold, and eventual platinum trophies.. those easy trophy/acheivement horders will hit a glass ceiling in terms of leveling while the hardcore guys will still be going strong.. and it'll be obvious to all who care to take a minor glance at your trophy card.. the same cant be said for a glance at a gamerscore of 13,682..

this is all he's saying yet 80% of the posts in this thread to contrary are talking about how "trophies/acheivements =/= mad skillz".. and i agree.. but that concept is entirely off-topic.. if you feel that an overall gamerscore is somehow superior to the tiered trophy and leveling system, then by all means discuss and provide your thoughts that.. y'kno the actual subject at hand..

i think people are getting to caught up in the term "skill" and are missing the entire point of this article/blog...

he's not saying that trophies take more skill to obtain than acheivements and he isnt saying that having a number of trophies or acheivements dictates the level of skill you have at online multiplayer and the like.. he's simply saying that a trophycard more readily shows the level of a player's specific gaming accomplishments in comparison to an overall gamerscore.. the contrast of actually showing this person's platinum, gold, silver, and bronze trophies specifically rather than bunching everything up in a single total sum.. you get an instant understanding of whether this person goes for loads of easy accomplishments or if they've gone for the harder stuff.. beyond that, the idea that a platinum trophy readily reflects the fact that you're completed a game to 100% while an overall gamerscore cant readily display that type of information at a glance..

and lastly, there's the leveling system that takes things a step further.. you get a massive amount of points towards a next level for a platinum trophy.. gold trophies are worth alot aswell.. and then silver and bronze trophies are worth less and less respectively.. this matters because: 1) it adds another layer of depth to your classification.. it's like "sure, you have 110 trophies compared to my 64.. but i'm almost level 4 and you're still a level 2 because i've gone for the harder goals".. it's just an added way to seperate the peeps who ease by with easy trophies/acheivements and those hardcore gamers that go for platinums and 1000/1000.. and 2) at some point, since like in any RPG it takes progressively longer to level as the levels become higher, those bronze trophies eventually arent going to amount for much in terms of leveling.. which is just yet another factor that rewards those that strive for the silver, gold, and eventual platinum trophies.. those easy trophy/acheivement horders will hit a glass ceiling in terms of leveling while the hardcore guys will still be going strong.. and it'll be obvious to all who care to take a minor glance at your trophy card.. the same cant be said for a glance at a gamerscore of 13,682..

this is all he's saying yet 80% of the posts in this thread to contrary are talking about how "trophies/acheivements =/= mad skillz".. and i agree.. but that concept is entirely off-topic.. if you feel that an overall gamerscore is somehow superior to the tiered trophy and leveling system, then by all means discuss and provide your thoughts that.. y'kno the actual subject at hand..

Antwan3K

Trophies and achievements have absolutely no bearing on "skill" in any particular game :|

subrosian

And I'm going to bring it up again... you can't share or display trophies outside of the console. Can't even view them on the playstation site. With achievements, you can see and compare with friends on Xbox.com, 360voice.com, on forums and blogs... even on the iphone.

in response to your comment of "you cant share or display trophies outside the console", i can access, share, and compare my trophy collection while at work or from any other WiFi hotspot via my PSP.. i can access my XMB via remote play, access the PS store, manage my account, access my music, photos, videos, and more.. i'm even displaying my trophycard on this very forum (even though it's via playfire.com).. so please stop making false statements..

and beyond that, why are you so off-topic?.. that's why noone has responded to your previous posts yet you feel the need to "bring it up again".. if you want to start a new thread about the benefits of being able to check and compare your achievements via xbox.com, then go ahead.. if you're that bored at work and actually want to do such a thing, then more power to ya..

the rest of us will try and stay on-topic..

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

And I'm going to bring it up again... you can't share or display trophies outside of the console. Can't even view them on the playstation site. With achievements, you can see and compare with friends on Xbox.com, 360voice.com, on forums and blogs... even on the iphone.

XturnalS

good point Im looking at your achievements right now

Which you update manually, no? The widgets that display achievements are dynamic.

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

And I'm going to bring it up again... you can't share or display trophies outside of the console. Can't even view them on the playstation site. With achievements, you can see and compare with friends on Xbox.com, 360voice.com, on forums and blogs... even on the iphone.

Antwan3K

in response to your comment of "you cant share or display trophies outside the console", i can access, share, and compare my trophy collection while at work or from any other WiFi hotspot via my PSP.. i can access my XMB via remote play, access the PS store, manage my account, access my music, photos, videos, and more.. i'm even displaying my trophycard on this very forum (even though it's via playfire.com).. so please stop making false statements..

and beyond that, why are you so off-topic?.. that's why noone has responded to your previous posts yet you feel the need to "bring it up again".. if you want to start a new thread about the benefits of being able to check and compare your achievements via xbox.com, then go ahead.. if you're that bored at work and actually want to do such a thing, then more power to ya..

the rest of us will try and stay on-topic..

The topic itself begs discussion of the issues I brought up. The reason I bring up the ability to share achievements is to point out that the author of article commits the logical fallacy of taking trophies out of the context in which they exist. On paper, the author's right. Compared to achievements, the concept behind the trophies' tiered system is a better indicator of the "quality" of each accomplishment. However, when you put that concept in the real world, that strength is lost. What good are trophies if you can show them off easily? If I don't have a PSP on me, then I can't access remote play functionality. I can't see trophies whether they're platinum, gold or bronze. It doesn't matter. On the flipside, I can check/compare achievements from any pc or smartphone that's connected to the internet.

Similarly, Playfire and TripleTags are great in concept also. Looking at them in a vacuum, they're the same as Achievements. However, again... put in practicaly terms, they require manual updates. Achievements don't require nearly that much micromanagement. They're dynamically updated. That just points to yet another advantage over trophies.

The point is... it's easy to talk about trophy tiers at an abstract level. But in a real world situation, they don't account for nearly as much.

[QUOTE="Antwan3K"][QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

And I'm going to bring it up again... you can't share or display trophies outside of the console. Can't even view them on the playstation site. With achievements, you can see and compare with friends on Xbox.com, 360voice.com, on forums and blogs... even on the iphone.

VoodooHak

in response to your comment of "you cant share or display trophies outside the console", i can access, share, and compare my trophy collection while at work or from any other WiFi hotspot via my PSP.. i can access my XMB via remote play, access the PS store, manage my account, access my music, photos, videos, and more.. i'm even displaying my trophycard on this very forum (even though it's via playfire.com).. so please stop making false statements..

and beyond that, why are you so off-topic?.. that's why noone has responded to your previous posts yet you feel the need to "bring it up again".. if you want to start a new thread about the benefits of being able to check and compare your achievements via xbox.com, then go ahead.. if you're that bored at work and actually want to do such a thing, then more power to ya..

the rest of us will try and stay on-topic..

The topic itself begs discussion of the issues I brought up. The reason I bring up the ability to share achievements is to point out that the author of article commits the logical fallacy of taking trophies out of the context in which they exist. On paper, the author's right. Compared to achievements, the concept behind the trophies' tiered system is a better indicator of the "quality" of each accomplishment. However, when you put that concept in the real world, that strength is lost. What good are trophies if you can show them off easily? If I don't have a PSP on me, then I can't access remote play functionality. I can't see trophies whether they're platinum, gold or bronze. It doesn't matter. On the flipside, I can check/compare achievements from any pc or smartphone that's connected to the internet.

Similarly, Playfire and TripleTags are great in concept also. Looking at them in a vacuum, they're the same as Achievements. However, again... put in practicaly terms, they require manual updates. Achievements don't require nearly that much micromanagement. They're dynamically updated. That just points to yet another advantage over trophies.

The point is... it's easy to talk about trophy tiers at an abstract level. But in a real world situation, they don't account for nearly as much.

dude, in the "real world" it's not a big deal to update your playfire trophycard manually if you actually care for peeps on "teh internetz" to see your accomplishments.. a non-issue.. another non-issue is your insistance that being able to display your acheivements via a PC is in anyway a deal-breaker when we are talking about console functionality.. "bu bu but wat if i dont have teh PSP!?!11!".. well, the same can be said about whether or not i have PC access, or if there is anybody immediately around that cares to see my trophy/acheivement collection in that PC accessed area, and/or a number of other variables like namely "who cares?"... heck, even if i did have PC access i can still display my trophies via playfire.com (manually updated or not).. so what is your point?.. do you want me to tell you about the "real world"?.. i can.. in the real world, i'm an avid PS3 gamer and i love PSN.. but i have never (and i mean NEVER) been in a situation where i felt the need to check/compare my trophies from a PC at work, at the library, at a buddy's house, or anywhere else other than my home console.. that's the "reality".. this is coming from a hardcore gamer, so how many casual and general gamers do you think care about checking their acheivments while hanging out in Starbucks?.. you're talking about niche and extremely specific situations that carry little weight my friend.. beyond that, you seem to be under the incredibly flawed assumption that the PS3 XMB and the 360 dashboard are "vacuums" and the only mediums that actually matter in terms of displaying your CONSOLE GAMING accomplishments arent the consoles in question but rather devices that have absolutely nothing to do with console gaming at all.. that type of logic is flawed at it's fundamental core...

so how about we talk about the two features at hand (ie trophies and acheivements) and leave the extra fluff to the wayside (ie PCs and PSPs).. i honeslty only brought up the PSP and playfire.com to point out that you can indeed access and display your trophies in other forums and areas other than the console.. you seemed to think that you couldnt, so i just pointed out that you could.. other than that, there's no point in further discussion because it's already established that both trophies and acheivements can be accessed and displayed in other means and areas other than the home console.. fair enough and 'nuff said.. anything beyond that is nit-picking and scenerio specific.. so what if i have a PSP but no PC access?.. what if i want to show off my trophies in an area where there's a Wifi signal but none of my friends have their laptops but i have my PSP?.. what if noone actually cared that i had to update my trophycard on playfire.com manually instead of automatically (which noone would) and i could just show them on a PC?.. as you can see, in those cases, my trophies are in full display and represented in a place outside my home.. PSP, PC, or otherwise.. so your point is moot.. quit trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.. honestly, it sounds like you're grasping at straws with this one..

but back on topic (again), thanks for agreeing that trophies > acheivements in terms of being a better indicator of the "quality" of each accomplishment at a glance.. in that reagrd, comparing a trophycard to a gamerscore, there really is no comparison.. i'm glad that we can see eye to eye on this..

[QUOTE="XturnalS"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]

good point Im looking at your achievements right now

VoodooHak

Which you update manually, no? The widgets that display achievements are dynamic.

dude, in the "real world" it's not a big deal to update your playfire trophycard manually if you actually care for peeps on "teh internetz" to see your accomplishments.. a non-issue.. another non-issue is your insistance that being able to display your acheivements via a PC is in anyway a deal-breaker when we are talking about console functionality.. "bu bu but wat if i dont have teh PSP!?!11!".. well, the same can be said about whether or not i have PC access, or if there is anybody immediately around that cares to see my trophy/acheivement collection in that PC accessed area, and/or a number of other variables like namely "who cares?"... you want me to tell you about the "real world"?.. in the real world, i'm an avid PS3 gamer and i love PSN.. but i have never (and i mean NEVER) been in a situation where i felt the need to check/compare my trophies from a PC at work, at the library, at a buddy's house, or anywhere else other than my home console.. that's the "reality".. this is coming from a hardcore gamer, so how many casual and general gamers do you think care about checking their acheivments while hanging out in Starbucks?.. you're talking about niche and extremely specific situations that carry little weight my friend.. beyond that, you seem to be under the incredibly flawed assumption that the PS3 XMB and the 360 dashboard are "vacuums" and the only mediums that actually matter in terms of displaying your CONSOLE GAMING accomplishments arent the consoles in question but rather devices that have absolutely nothing to do with console gaming at all.. that type of logic is flawed at it's fundamental core...

so how about we talk about the two features at hand (ie trophies and acheivements) and leave the extra fluff to the wayside (ie PCs and PSPs).. i honeslty only brought up the PSP and playfire.com to point out that you can indeed access and display your trophies in other forums and areas other than the console.. you seemed to think that you couldnt, so i just pointed out that you could.. other than that, there's no point in further discussion because it's already established that both trophies and acheivements can be accessed and displayed in other means and areas other than the home console.. fair enough and 'nuff said.. anything beyond that is nit-picking and scenerio specific.. so what if i have a PSP but no PC access?.. what if i want to show off my trophies in an area where there's a Wifi signal but none of my friends have their laptops but i have my PSP?.. what if no one actually cared that i had to update my trophycard on playfire.com manually instead of automatically?.. as you can see, in those cases, my trophies are in full display and represented in a place outside my home.. so your point is moot.. quit trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.. honestly, it sounds like you're grasping at straws with this one..

but back on topic (again), thanks for agreeing that trophies > acheivements in terms of being a better indicator of the "quality" of each accomplishment at a glance.. in that reagrd, comparing a trophycard to a gamerscore, there really is no comparison.. i'm glad that we can see eye to eye on this..

Antwan3K

[QUOTE="Antwan3K"]

dude, in the "real world" it's not a big deal to update your playfire trophycard manually if you actually care for peeps on "teh internetz" to see your accomplishments.. a non-issue.. another non-issue is your insistance that being able to display your acheivements via a PC is in anyway a deal-breaker when we are talking about console functionality.. "bu bu but wat if i dont have teh PSP!?!11!".. well, the same can be said about whether or not i have PC access, or if there is anybody immediately around that cares to see my trophy/acheivement collection in that PC accessed area, and/or a number of other variables like namely "who cares?"... you want me to tell you about the "real world"?.. in the real world, i'm an avid PS3 gamer and i love PSN.. but i have never (and i mean NEVER) been in a situation where i felt the need to check/compare my trophies from a PC at work, at the library, at a buddy's house, or anywhere else other than my home console.. that's the "reality".. this is coming from a hardcore gamer, so how many casual and general gamers do you think care about checking their acheivments while hanging out in Starbucks?.. you're talking about niche and extremely specific situations that carry little weight my friend.. beyond that, you seem to be under the incredibly flawed assumption that the PS3 XMB and the 360 dashboard are "vacuums" and the only mediums that actually matter in terms of displaying your CONSOLE GAMING accomplishments arent the consoles in question but rather devices that have absolutely nothing to do with console gaming at all.. that type of logic is flawed at it's fundamental core...

so how about we talk about the two features at hand (ie trophies and acheivements) and leave the extra fluff to the wayside (ie PCs and PSPs).. i honeslty only brought up the PSP and playfire.com to point out that you can indeed access and display your trophies in other forums and areas other than the console.. you seemed to think that you couldnt, so i just pointed out that you could.. other than that, there's no point in further discussion because it's already established that both trophies and acheivements can be accessed and displayed in other means and areas other than the home console.. fair enough and 'nuff said.. anything beyond that is nit-picking and scenerio specific.. so what if i have a PSP but no PC access?.. what if i want to show off my trophies in an area where there's a Wifi signal but none of my friends have their laptops but i have my PSP?.. what if no one actually cared that i had to update my trophycard on playfire.com manually instead of automatically?.. as you can see, in those cases, my trophies are in full display and represented in a place outside my home.. so your point is moot.. quit trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.. honestly, it sounds like you're grasping at straws with this one..

but back on topic (again), thanks for agreeing that trophies > acheivements in terms of being a better indicator of the "quality" of each accomplishment at a glance.. in that reagrd, comparing a trophycard to a gamerscore, there really is no comparison.. i'm glad that we can see eye to eye on this..

VoodooHak

Although I agree that conceptually, the diffrent types of trophies seem better than achievements, I'm not going to cede my other points. As I already said, the concept is great... as long as you remove it from the rest of what trophies are all about. Placed in the real world, it really lacks alot of what achievements offer.

I liken it to the argument that the PS3 hardware package is superior to the 360. Well, yes, on paper that's true. But what does that really mean? Not much considering that the 360 is still fairing better. The lesson: you have to look at the big picture.

Achievements and trophies can't be evaluated by looking through a magnifying glass at only one aspect...which is what the author of the article is doing. So let's take a step back from the magnifying glass and look at achievements and trophies with a broader persprective... as they're used in the real world with all their moving parts. If you want to get into large, abstract concepts, we can look at social networking and user friendliness... and how trophies/achievements directly relate to both.

You can claim vicotry with the advantage of bronze/silver/gold/platinum tiers. But really... it's a hollow victory. They simply cannot make up for all the trophy shortcomings.

hollow victory?.. narrow view?.. please..

let's analyze shall we?.. applied purpose: both indicate the ingame accomplishments of the player (tie).. gamer display: both can equally be displayed/compared using the home console, both can be displayed outside on the console using a PC/internet (more acheivement comparison options via xbox.com and updates automatically), while trophies can also be displayed/compared on the PSP aswell for an added medium (tie).. DIRECT COMPARISON OF THE TWO INDIVIDUAL SYSTEMS: the trophy/leveling system decisively offers more depth and readily accessible data and contrast (trophies.. hands down)..

trophies win.. no matter how you slice it.. the only "gray area" is the gamer display catagory, which depending on the person and preference, can go either way.. sir, i am indeed the one looking at the big picture.. maybe you should take your own advice and stop concentrating on one minor area.. an area, which i might add, isnt even the direct topic of this thread..

Almost everyone that owns an Xbox 360 wants to have a high gamer score to boast about.

jakarai

that affects it how? oh yeah it doesntXturnalS

PS3 Trophies

Like my trophies? Such is the value of data that depends on manual input by the end-user. Although I've never played Alone in the Dark, it says so on Playfire, so it must be true, right?

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

[QUOTE="Antwan3K"]

dude, in the "real world" it's not a big deal to update your playfire trophycard manually if you actually care for peeps on "teh internetz" to see your accomplishments.. a non-issue.. another non-issue is your insistance that being able to display your acheivements via a PC is in anyway a deal-breaker when we are talking about console functionality.. "bu bu but wat if i dont have teh PSP!?!11!".. well, the same can be said about whether or not i have PC access, or if there is anybody immediately around that cares to see my trophy/acheivement collection in that PC accessed area, and/or a number of other variables like namely "who cares?"... you want me to tell you about the "real world"?.. in the real world, i'm an avid PS3 gamer and i love PSN.. but i have never (and i mean NEVER) been in a situation where i felt the need to check/compare my trophies from a PC at work, at the library, at a buddy's house, or anywhere else other than my home console.. that's the "reality".. this is coming from a hardcore gamer, so how many casual and general gamers do you think care about checking their acheivments while hanging out in Starbucks?.. you're talking about niche and extremely specific situations that carry little weight my friend.. beyond that, you seem to be under the incredibly flawed assumption that the PS3 XMB and the 360 dashboard are "vacuums" and the only mediums that actually matter in terms of displaying your CONSOLE GAMING accomplishments arent the consoles in question but rather devices that have absolutely nothing to do with console gaming at all.. that type of logic is flawed at it's fundamental core...

so how about we talk about the two features at hand (ie trophies and acheivements) and leave the extra fluff to the wayside (ie PCs and PSPs).. i honeslty only brought up the PSP and playfire.com to point out that you can indeed access and display your trophies in other forums and areas other than the console.. you seemed to think that you couldnt, so i just pointed out that you could.. other than that, there's no point in further discussion because it's already established that both trophies and acheivements can be accessed and displayed in other means and areas other than the home console.. fair enough and 'nuff said.. anything beyond that is nit-picking and scenerio specific.. so what if i have a PSP but no PC access?.. what if i want to show off my trophies in an area where there's a Wifi signal but none of my friends have their laptops but i have my PSP?.. what if no one actually cared that i had to update my trophycard on playfire.com manually instead of automatically?.. as you can see, in those cases, my trophies are in full display and represented in a place outside my home.. so your point is moot.. quit trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.. honestly, it sounds like you're grasping at straws with this one..

but back on topic (again), thanks for agreeing that trophies > acheivements in terms of being a better indicator of the "quality" of each accomplishment at a glance.. in that reagrd, comparing a trophycard to a gamerscore, there really is no comparison.. i'm glad that we can see eye to eye on this..

Antwan3K

Although I agree that conceptually, the diffrent types of trophies seem better than achievements, I'm not going to cede my other points. As I already said, the concept is great... as long as you remove it from the rest of what trophies are all about. Placed in the real world, it really lacks alot of what achievements offer.

I liken it to the argument that the PS3 hardware package is superior to the 360. Well, yes, on paper that's true. But what does that really mean? Not much considering that the 360 is still fairing better. The lesson: you have to look at the big picture.

Achievements and trophies can't be evaluated by looking through a magnifying glass at only one aspect...which is what the author of the article is doing. So let's take a step back from the magnifying glass and look at achievements and trophies with a broader persprective... as they're used in the real world with all their moving parts. If you want to get into large, abstract concepts, we can look at social networking and user friendliness... and how trophies/achievements directly relate to both.

You can claim vicotry with the advantage of bronze/silver/gold/platinum tiers. But really... it's a hollow victory. They simply cannot make up for all the trophy shortcomings.

hollow victory?.. narrow view?.. please..

let's analyze shall we?.. applied purpose: both indicate the ingame accomplishments of the player (tie).. gamer display: both can equally be displayed/compared using the home console, both can be displayed outside on the console using a PC/internet (more acheivement comparison options via xbox.com and updates automatically), However, trophies lose their value on sites like tripletages and playfire because the data isn't coming from the source. End users can put in whatever they want with no data validation made by Sony, or even by those sites. None.

while trophies can also be displayed/compared on the PSP aswell for an added medium (tie)..Achievements can be displayed on the PSP via its browser as well. Advantage: Achievements

.. DIRECT COMPARISON OF THE TWO INDIVIDUAL SYSTEMS: the trophy/leveling system decisively offers more depth and readily accessible data and contrast (trophies.. hands down)..If by readily accessible you mean at-a-glance differentiation among bronze/silver/gold/plat, then yes, trophies do offer more

trophies win.. no matter how you slice it.. the only "gray area" is the gamer display catagory, which depending on the person and preference, can go either way..If you want to be the only one looking at your trophies, then you're in a good place. If you want to communicate these to the outside world, one is clearly better than the other.

sir, i am indeed the one looking at the big picture.. maybe you should take your own advice and stop concentrating on one minor area.. an area, which i might add, isnt even the direct topic of this thread..

My point is that the direct topic of the thread is flawed.

I'm going to disagree that Communication is a minor area. I think it's critical to the concept of achievements/trophies. Achievement advantages are listed above.

Automation and Ease-of-Use: Achievements are dynamic, so they require little to no intervention required from the end-user. Since they are automated, there is an accountability totally absent from TripleTags and Playfire. I cannot fudge what games I've played or what achievements I've earned. The only place to verify trophies is while logged onto the PS3 (proper or remote play)

Standardization: Achievements are in ALL Xbox 360 games, both retail and XBLA, from day one

Sorry, you really aren't looking at the big picture. Until Sony addresses these issues, any value seen in the trophies is diminished.

[QUOTE="XturnalS"] that affects it how? oh yeah it doesntVoodooHak

Like my trophies? Such is the value of data that depends on manual input by the end-user. Although I've never played Alone in the Dark, it says so on Playfire, so it must be true, right?

My point is that the direct topic of the thread is flawed.

I'm going to disagree that Communication is a minor area. I think it's critical to the concept of achievements/trophies. Achievement advantages are listed above.

Automation and Ease-of-Use: Achievements are dynamic, so they require little to no intervention required from the end-user. Since they are automated, there is an accountability totally absent from TripleTags and Playfire. I cannot fudge what games I've played or what achievements I've earned. The only place to verify trophies is while logged onto the PS3 (proper or remote play)

Standardization: Achievements are in ALL Xbox 360 games, both retail and XBLA, from day one

Sorry, you really aren't looking at the big picture. Until Sony addresses these issues, any value seen in the trophies is diminished.

VoodooHak

I play games for fun. Achievements and trophies are just a way of adding replay value. Anyone who plays games solely to earn achievements and trophies in order to brag about being "skilled" are not gamers.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]I play games for fun. Achievements and trophies are just a way of adding replay value. Anyone who plays games solely to earn achievements and trophies in order to brag about being "skilled" are not gamers.mattsnibbs

I only buy one or two games a month so trophies is a good way to add replay value and it feels like Iv'e completed a game when I get a Platinum trophie just like I felt when I got 1000/1000 in oblivion when I had a 360.

I would never buy a bad game or play a game I didn't like to get trophies but they are a good way to bring more value in a game.

You could play a ton of games to get bronze trophies but after a while they won't matter. I'm at level 7 and a bronze trophie only gives me 1% (if that) so it's rather pointless.

I like trophies because they introduced me to good games that I would of otherwise passed up, Quantum and BFBC are both good fun shooters and have a great MP suite.

I saw they had trophies and being the whore that I am decided to try em out for them. I ended up falling in love with Bond (no homo and played more Bond then CoD WaW or any other big shooter that came out last year.

So I'm glad they implemented them as it adds replay value and I got to play two great games.

[QUOTE="XturnalS"] that affects it how? oh yeah it doesntVoodooHak

Like my trophies? Such is the value of data that depends on manual input by the end-user. Although I've never played Alone in the Dark, it says so on Playfire, so it must be true, right?

lol, any gamer who gave a second thought about your trophycard would just reference it back to PSN via their PS3 and see that you're full of it.. like i said, all this PC/forum crap is just an extension.. what's REALLY important is what can be seen and done from the console.. but if you get your jollies from being a "poser", you dont have to post your 360 gamercard widget AT ALL and still make false claims cant you?.. and just like with PSN, all someone has to do is look u up and see you as a fraud..

if this is an issue for you, then you spend too much time on forums dude.. get back hands on with your console..

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"]

No they don't. Trophies are basically the exact same thing as achievements.

-Bronze Trophy: Beat Dead Space.

-Achievement 25g: Beat Dead Space.

-Platinum Trophy: Beat Dead Space on the hardest difficulty.

-Achievement 100g: Beat Dead Space on the hardest difficulty.

To say that trophies take more skill is a joke.

nickscho

They are the exact same thing. What's the difference between a platinum trophy and a 1000/1000 achievement score? Nothing.

[QUOTE="Antwan3K"][QUOTE="VoodooHak"]You can't look so narrowly at one thing while totally ignoring the rest. What you see as staying "on-topic", I see as not seeing the forest for the trees. This is the short-sighted perspective I'm arguing against here.

Although I agree that conceptually, the diffrent types of trophies seem better than achievements, I'm not going to cede my other points. As I already said, the concept is great... as long as you remove it from the rest of what trophies are all about. Placed in the real world, it really lacks alot of what achievements offer.

I liken it to the argument that the PS3 hardware package is superior to the 360. Well, yes, on paper that's true. But what does that really mean? Not much considering that the 360 is still fairing better. The lesson: you have to look at the big picture.

Achievements and trophies can't be evaluated by looking through a magnifying glass at only one aspect...which is what the author of the article is doing. So let's take a step back from the magnifying glass and look at achievements and trophies with a broader persprective... as they're used in the real world with all their moving parts. If you want to get into large, abstract concepts, we can look at social networking and user friendliness... and how trophies/achievements directly relate to both.

You can claim vicotry with the advantage of bronze/silver/gold/platinum tiers. But really... it's a hollow victory. They simply cannot make up for all the trophy shortcomings.VoodooHak

hollow victory?.. narrow view?.. please..

let's analyze shall we?.. applied purpose: both indicate the ingame accomplishments of the player (tie).. gamer display: both can equally be displayed/compared using the home console, both can be displayed outside on the console using a PC/internet (more acheivement comparison options via xbox.com and updates automatically), However, trophies lose their value on sites like tripletages and playfire because the data isn't coming from the source. End users can put in whatever they want with no data validation made by Sony, or even by those sites. None.

while trophies can also be displayed/compared on the PSP aswell for an added medium (tie)..Achievements can be displayed on the PSP via its browser as well. Advantage: Achievements

.. DIRECT COMPARISON OF THE TWO INDIVIDUAL SYSTEMS: the trophy/leveling system decisively offers more depth and readily accessible data and contrast (trophies.. hands down)..If by readily accessible you mean at-a-glance differentiation among bronze/silver/gold/plat, then yes, trophies do offer more

trophies win.. no matter how you slice it.. the only "gray area" is the gamer display catagory, which depending on the person and preference, can go either way..If you want to be the only one looking at your trophies, then you're in a good place. If you want to communicate these to the outside world, one is clearly better than the other.

sir, i am indeed the one looking at the big picture.. maybe you should take your own advice and stop concentrating on one minor area.. an area, which i might add, isnt even the direct topic of this thread..

My point is that the direct topic of the thread is flawed.

I'm going to disagree that Communication is a minor area. I think it's critical to the concept of achievements/trophies. Achievement advantages are listed above.

Automation and Ease-of-Use: Achievements are dynamic, so they require little to no intervention required from the end-user. Since they are automated, there is an accountability totally absent from TripleTags and Playfire. I cannot fudge what games I've played or what achievements I've earned. The only place to verify trophies is while logged onto the PS3 (proper or remote play)

Standardization: Achievements are in ALL Xbox 360 games, both retail and XBLA, from day one

Sorry, you really aren't looking at the big picture. Until Sony addresses these issues, any value seen in the trophies is diminished.

you, sir, are missing the point if you think staring at a PC screen and constantly checking on your achievements is actually more important or even remotely relevant to a conversation about the actual implemetation and functionality of said features within their respective consoles.. "automation and ease-of-use"?.. this is once again assuming that someone actually cares to post widgets on random internet forums.. which most people DONT..

please understand that we are in the vast minority my friend.. not many people give a crap about "dynamic widgets" and "system wars".. even the vast majority of people on these very boards dont even use trophycards and/or gamercards in their sigs.. so i ask you again, what's your point?.. so what, a very very very small demographic of people care about this "ease-of-use" you're constantly mentioning while everyone else is satisfied checking and managing their trophies and acheivements from their home console.. and the few others dont really care whether or not their card is automatically updated or manually updated.. sure, auto-updates would be more convenient but it's far from something to list in a bullet-point presentation.. we're still talking about widgets here dude..

and trophies are mandatory now as of 2009.. sure, a few games where lost in the mix but the bottomline is that every new PS3 game will now feature trophies.. period.. so yea, Sony has already addressed that issue..

so let's recap.. you agree that trophies > acheivments in terms of readily presented data.. cool.. this should be the end of the conversation but yet you bring up the idea that you can display acheivements on your PC via xbox.com.. fine.. you can also display trophies on your PC via playfire.com and even take your entire XMB (including trophies) on the go with your PSP.. your response?.. "bu bu but teh dynamic gamercard widgetz!!1!!".. really?.. your "big picture" is that the fact that the trophy/leveling system is superior to the gamerscore system in terms of organizing and displaying game accomplishment data is somehow overshadowed by WIDGETS!!?!.. wow.. i mean, WOW.. good luck with that bro...

Oh dude I'm just using an example. Beating Dead Space on the hardest difficulty is not a 100g achievement either.

They are the exact same thing. What's the difference between a platinum trophy and a 1000/1000 achievement score? Nothing.

SpinoRaptor24