Two brand new Xbox 360 exclusive RPG's announced - full 360 RPG list inside !!!

So I should open up the borders of the definition so that everybody can play?

jethrovegas

The problem is, you're manipulating that definition to suit your needs, and using subjective views to support it.

You really need 11 gigs free of space to install the game or Last Remnant runs like garbage.Vambran

Actually you need 6.5GB, and when disk2 is needed, you install this one, i know because i am in disk 2 as we speak

Almost all the w-rpg's are coming to pc, so I'll get the superior pc versions. And star ocean 4 will come to PS3.

And let's be honest there's a lot of mediocre stuff on that list...

Almost all the w-rpg's are coming to pc, so I'll get the superior pc versions. And star ocean 4 will come to PS3.

And let's be honest there's a lot of mediocre stuff on that list...

Almost all the w-rpg's are coming to pc, so I'll get the superior pc versions. And star ocean 4 will come to PS3.

And let's be honest there's a lot of mediocre stuff on that list...

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"] lulz @ you needing a PC and PS3 to play what all us 360ers can on one system.xsubtownerx

Almost all the w-rpg's are coming to pc, so I'll get the superior pc versions. And star ocean 4 will come to PS3.

And let's be honest there's a lot of mediocre stuff on that list...

[QUOTE="knight-k"]

Almost all the w-rpg's are coming to pc, so I'll get the superior pc versions. And star ocean 4 will come to PS3.

And let's be honest there's a lot of mediocre stuff on that list...

obamanian

I do not have a gaming PC, and i do not want one considering the game look 99% same on 360 and i can play with my pad i prefer a million times more

Also SO4 is 360 only and Fable 2, Lost odsyssey etc are not on PC

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="knight-k"] Like I said a lot of mediocre ****(and some flops) like fable 2 and lost odessy,.... And you forget the mods you have on pc and don't have on 360. So no it's a weak rpg list.knight-k

[QUOTE="obamanian"][QUOTE="knight-k"]

Almost all the w-rpg's are coming to pc, so I'll get the superior pc versions. And star ocean 4 will come to PS3.

And let's be honest there's a lot of mediocre stuff on that list...

Sgt_Hale

I do not have a gaming PC, and i do not want one considering the game look 99% same on 360 and i can play with my pad i prefer a million times more

Also SO4 is 360 only and Fable 2, Lost odsyssey etc are not on PC

PC RPG's on 360 actually look 99% similar to PC, also 360 gets a host that PC does not get

As for White Knight, that game looks like running on PS2 in HD, have you actually seen how it looks and plays ? Could be the worst RPG ever created actually

So, no JRPG is a real RPG i guess, they are vastly more linear and never allow your story to be told or chosen, right ?

JRPG's are by your definition 1000x less RPG's than Mass Effect

obamanian

Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying.

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

So I should open up the borders of the definition so that everybody can play?

Verge_6

The problem is, you're manipulating that definition to suit your needs, and using subjective views to support it.

I'm stating the definition as I see it, and using logical analysis to back that definition up. It isn't anything other than my opinion, but, so far my opinion has been backed up better than yours, as you have yet to provide your definition of an 'RPG' or a counter to my argument besides telling me that I'm using subjective views to support it, which is unavoidable and not really a problem.

If you LARP your way through Mass Effect and thereby manage to convince yourself that it is chock full of amazing role playing content, then that's your opinion on a subjective matter.

However, if you (or anyone else who supports your same sort of ideas) were to come to the argument with 'I LARPed that ***** and it was great' as your tentpole, and I come in with a thorough, well thought out analysis using examples and explaining in detail exactly what I'm talking about with regard to specific issues, then my stance on a subjective subject is a little more credible than yours.

Deciding whether or not a game is an RPG must be done on a game by game basis, and it isn't very hard to do, though it is much more difficult than say, classifying a game as a racer or a fighter.

If you were to give me your definition of an RPG, and then say "Mass Effect is an RPG because it meets conditions A, B, and C" then we'd have a good debate on our hands, but right now you're just telling me that I'm using my opinion to inform my analysis, and that's about as insightful as letting me know that the sun rose this morning.

I'm stating the definition as I see it, and using logical analysis to back that definition up. It isn't anything other than my opinion, but, so far my opinion has been backed up better than yours, as you have yet to provide your definition of an 'RPG' or a counter to my argument besides telling me that I'm using subjective views to support it, which is unavoidable and not really a problem.

jethrovegas

What's the point in getting into a debate about whether Mass Effects meets "conditions A, B, and C", when you're convinced they don't? The player has an influence over the world and the loves of its NPCs. You don't think the player has enough influence, so ME fails in that regard. The player can experience a significantly different gaming experience by what class he/she chooses. You don't think the difference is that great., and as such, Mass Effect doesn't qualify as an RPG. Now, doesn't that sound silly? You haven't exactly provided an in-depth base for comparison here. You're convinced in your mind that Mass Effect fails to meet some vague quota, and that people who think otherwise need to be, quote, "beaten with your logic stick". Again, does that not sound silly, if not obnoxious and arrogant? Just because Mass Effect meets mostly everyones' quota for an RPG game and not your's doesn't mean that they're wrong and ignorant.

Almost all the w-rpg's are coming to pc, so I'll get the superior pc versions. And star ocean 4 will come to PS3.

And let's be honest there's a lot of mediocre stuff on that list...

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

I'm stating the definition as I see it, and using logical analysis to back that definition up. It isn't anything other than my opinion, but, so far my opinion has been backed up better than yours, as you have yet to provide your definition of an 'RPG' or a counter to my argument besides telling me that I'm using subjective views to support it, which is unavoidable and not really a problem.

Verge_6

What's the point in getting into a debate about whether Mass Effects meets "conditions A, B, and C", when you're convinced they don't? The player has an influence over the world and the loves of its NPCs. You don't think the player has enough influence, so ME fails in that regard. The player can experience a significantly different gaming experience by what class he/she chooses. You don't think the difference is that great., and as such, Mass Effect doesn't qualify as an RPG. Now, doesn't that sound silly? You haven't exactly provided an in-depth base for comparison here. You're convinced in your mind that Mass Effect fails to meet some vague quota, and that people who think otherwise need to be, quote, "beaten with your logic stick". Again, does that not sound silly, if not obnoxious and arrogant?

I wasn't being nearly as vague as you are portraying. I gave specific examples with regard to the game's skillset, and content.

Why do the vast majority of the choices in the skillset boil down to "powahz and gunz"? Why can I not kill NPCs until the game says that I need to in order to progress the developer's intended story? Why can't I progress through the missions in different ways each time I play?

I mean, is RE4 an RPG because I can use different weapon sets on each playthrough, if I so choose? Because that's pretty much what Mass Effect's core content boils down to:

How should I kill these guys?

There is as much role playing depth in the average shooter. Grenades or assault rifle? Red 9 or Striker? Shotgun or sniper rifle? Psi powah or other psi powah?

When you aren't shooting people in the face, you are talking, and you can choose different options, most of which lead to the same responses, some of which affect the progression of the story. This is not enough to make Mass Effect an RPG. I can get different endings in GTA IV, or Silent Hill: Homecoming. Are those games RPGs because they have multiple paths to the story? Is San Andreas an RPG because it has statistics?

You know, I really don't like that ****er on the citadel who asks me to retrieve his wife's body, but I will never be able to kill that man, because Bioware was more interested in telling their story than they were in allowing me to tell my own, and that remains painfully obvious throughout the entire game.

Couple that with the fact that there really isn't any role playing to be found in the meat of the gameplay, and what you're left with is something less than an RPG.

Again: an action game with forks in the road.

-

There is as much role playing depth in the average shooter.

jethrovegas

I think I'm done here. That is an outright lie, and I refuse to dignify that statement with a rebutal. I'll close this with my opening statement. You could use some of the logic stick beating you're talking about.

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

There is as much role playing depth in the average shooter.

Verge_6

I think I'm done here. That is an outright lie, and I refuse to dignify that statement with a rebutal.

Well 'refusing to dignify' is certainly more convenient than dealing with that quote in context (ie, speaking with regard to the core content which, like it or not, mostly revolves around the game's predominantly combat focused levels) and, you know, the rest of my post, like the part where I spoke about the 'talking' segments and the story progression.

other than Tales of Vesperia and Star Ocean 4, I dont think thats a strong line up of RPGs, better than what the competition is offering, but still not good, in my opinion. also, Mass Effect 2.MightyMuna

no way a lot of those rpg's r really good....BTW there r like 3 on ps3 and the wii is irrelevant so

Cool, but i really do hope Kingdom Hearts 3 comes out for 360ProdigaI

You mean that RPG with mikey and goofy ? I never understood how people liked that game, as i could never see what they liked about Dragon Quest too, those games seem very mediocre to me, am i really missing that i have never played them ?

A quite a list too bad most of the gamesare mediocre, not saying all of them are there are about 7 or so great RPG's all imo on that list but others like Too Human, Dark Messish, Two worlds and Operation darkness = no just no. Also take away Oblivion, Fallout 3, Eternal Sonata and Mass effect cos they are multiplatform games and you really only have 3 standout RPG's for the system that are worth buying that are exclusive, Fable 2, Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia. So I wouldn't say it's RPG list (the 360) is that good, although then it has been a slow gen for RPG's and other consoles don't exactly have a better RPG lineup either.St_muscat

It's possible that Fable 2 will come to the PC too.

I wasn't being nearly as vague as you are portraying. I gave specific examples with regard to the game's skillset, and content.

Why do the vast majority of the choices in the skillset boil down to "powahz and gunz"? Why can I not kill NPCs until the game says that I need to in order to progress the developer's intended story? Why can't I progress through the missions in different ways each time I play?

I mean, is RE4 an RPG because I can use different weapon sets on each playthrough, if I so choose? Because that's pretty much what Mass Effect's core content boils down to:

How should I kill these guys?

There is as much role playing depth in the average shooter. Grenades or assault rifle? Red 9 or Striker? Shotgun or sniper rifle? Psi powah or other psi powah?

When you aren't shooting people in the face, you are talking, and you can choose different options, most of which lead to the same responses, some of which affect the progression of the story. This is not enough to make Mass Effect an RPG. I can get different endings in GTA IV, or Silent Hill: Homecoming. Are those games RPGs because they have multiple paths to the story? Is San Andreas an RPG because it has statistics?

You know, I really don't like that ****er on the citadel who asks me to retrieve his wife's body, but I will never be able to kill that man, because Bioware was more interested in telling their story than they were in allowing me to tell my own, and that remains painfully obvious throughout the entire game.

Couple that with the fact that there really isn't any role playing to be found in the meat of the gameplay, and what you're left with is something less than an RPG.

Again: an action game with forks in the road.

-

jethrovegas

True, but that would go for most j-rpgs too (if you can even consoder them rpgs). I can only think of the TES, Fallout and Gothic series that allow you to kill the X character and build your story to a certain degree.

>

^ Sorry haven't read you above post (with regards to jrpgs).

A quite a list too bad most of the gamesare mediocre, not saying all of them are there are about 7 or so great RPG's all imo on that list but others like Too Human, Dark Messish, Two worlds and Operation darkness = no just no. Also take away Oblivion, Fallout 3, Eternal Sonata and Mass effect cos they are multiplatform games and you really only have 3 standout RPG's for the system that are worth buying that are exclusive, Fable 2, Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia. So I wouldn't say it's RPG list (the 360) is that good, although then it has been a slow gen for RPG's and other consoles don't exactly have a better RPG lineup either.St_muscat

I do not understand your post really, i had a blast playing Fable 2, Mass Effect, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Tales, Two Worlds, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Last Rest Remnant, Too Human, Infinite Undiscovery, Eternal Sonata etc on my 360

You call that a slow gen for RPG's ? hahaha, then what is fast, a new RPG per day ?

BTW you may not like those titles, but i had fun playing all of them, and a real blast playing some of those, you can't simply suggest that simply because you do not like those games, they can't be amazing for others

Fact is i have been RPG gaming on my 360 from day one to this date, without ever going without RPG's to play, and i have not touched any RPG's on other systems, because my 360 covers everything

The only games i would miss with my 360 is FF13vs on PS3 and Diablo 3 on PC, not a single other RPG !!!! 360 is just about the ultimate RPG machine of all time really, imagine if Diablo 3 and FF13vs get a port too !!!

BTW have you seen how White Knight looks and plays on PS3 ? I need not say more

I can only think of the TES, Fallout and Gothic series that allow you to kill the X characterand build your story to a certain degree.

DOF_power

Well as far as TES goes- Daggerfall: Yes. Morrowind: Yes. Oblivion: Not so much.

What changed? Well, Bethesda decided to make an absolute ass load of characters completely invincible, and not just main storyline characters, but characters related to guild quests as well, which is just adding insult to injury.

In Morrowind, you could kill everyone. Yes, when you killed a crucial character it would give you the "prophecy is broken" message, but you could still keep playing, and you could still do any quests which didn't relate to the main storyline (you could even still 'complete the game'). In Tribunal, there were even some new dialogue options for players that broke the line of prophecy.

It's sort of odd to see such a radical shift in design philosophy from title to the next.

And there are plenty of games that I would call good RPGs that have some unkillable NPCs; it's really only a deal breaker when it doesn't make sense given the context.

Not being able to kill some average BoS soldier in F3 for no logical reason is a hell of alot different than not being able to kill Lothar in PST because the game sets him up as being exceptionally powerful and one of the few beings in existence who can actually destroy TNO.

OMG, i simply love rpgs im playing Last Remnant right now its a fantastic game. it has like anawesome strategicbattle system.PS3Breeder

Hell yeah man, i am LOVING Last Remnant right now, that game is sooooo underrated its ridicolous. Im glad the 360 has had such a huge library of rpgs this gen when compared to the original xbox. All these good jrpgs (Lost Odyssey, last Remnant and Tales Of Vesperia are all awesome imo) are starting to remind me of the good old ps1 rpg days.

[QUOTE="Slashkice"]Magna Carta 2 was announced years ago. Play the first game and you'll realize why no one is hyping it.obamanian

You mean i should judge every coming games from the ones before it ?

What would that make Killzone 2 then ?

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="knight-k"] Like I said a lot of mediocre ****(and some flops) like fable 2 and lost odessy,.... And you forget the mods you have on pc and don't have on 360. So no it's a weak rpg list.knight-k

good for you, only RPG i like are fable and oblivion. i like too human a little also. iam2green

You don't like JRPG's ?

The only JRPG's im looking foward too is Star ocean:the last hopeforeverflame890

What about FF13 ?

Hmm...as much as I love RPGs, I can only see one game on that list that I'm excited about (The Secret World - I'm not a huge fan of MMOs, but Ragnar Tornquist is awesome), and I'll be picking that up on the PC.

I mean, sure, I'll probably end up playing quite a few of the other RPGs the TC listed, but almost all of them are on the PC (or will be ported over in the future with more content, like Fable and Mass Effect). None of the exclusive RPGs make me want to buy a 360.

I'm really only interested in Dungeon Hero. I can hardly wait for that game! The concept is sound, and as long as the developers can pull it off it should be a fantastic game.

Oh and Mass Effect 2, obviously.. but that should go without saying.

Hmm...as much as I love RPGs, I can only see one game on that list that I'm excited about (The Secret World - I'm not a huge fan of MMOs, but Ragnar Tornquist is awesome), and I'll be picking that up on the PC.

I mean, sure, I'll probably end up playing quite a few of the other RPGs the TC listed, but almost all of them are on the PC (or will be ported over in the future with more content, like Fable and Mass Effect). None of the exclusive RPGs make me want to buy a 360.

Planeforger

No interest in Star Ocean 4 and Fable 2 ?