Was blu-ray really necessary for the PS3?

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

uncharted 2 and killzone 2 are long? o.O

delta3074

Bigger in terms of memory and content on disc, not in game size it'self. Uncharted 3 alone takes up 47 GB on a Blu Ray disc (not system or save memory, totally different things) DVD can only hold up to around 5 GB at most, even if it was called "compressed" for DVD it wouldn't matter, it's simply not possibl e on 360 in it's current form. It would have be dumbed down to get it to work.

Uncharted 3 would be about 8 discs on Xbox 360. That's not a joke or an overexaggeration either, that is the truth. That's how much MS shot themselves in the foot this gen by not getting Blu Ray.

Lol 8 GB? Ooooh so scary, Blu Ray is 50 GB! Looks like you shot yourself in the foot choosing to buy such an obvioulsyinferior format, and you chose to do so knowing about the better one. That's even worse.

And lol at thinking MS is the only one making profit, Sony is doing fine mr Delta. Get over your obsession with them going under, must be the Lem drugs you've been taking, who sold them to you? Was it LooseENDS? I told you not to play with him, he has multiple personalities you know.

Drugs arn't cool man, if you want to be cool buy a PS3, that's what makes you REALLY cool, trust me I know, I have PS3 and I'm REALLY cool.

Let me answer a question with a question.

Was CD necessary for the PS1?

Was DVD necessary for the PS2?

Was a disc format even necessary at all?

It just matters how important it is to you, that's all it really comes down to.

Why didn't we just stick with CD? It worked for the Dreamcast, it worked for the PS1, why shouldn't we just continue to use CD format? I mean, the general consensus is that getting up to change discs isn't a burden, so what's the big deal?

A CD holds a maximum of 700MB of data.

A game like Final Fantasy XIII is 37.6GB in size.

So you have to ask yourself, would you mind having Final Fantasy XIII on 54 discs? You would only have to get up and change discs 54 times. That really doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I mean, afterall, you would be getting a little bit of exercise. The Wii gives you a little bit of exercise, and look how well that sold?

I can just see it now in my head, how successful the 360 and the PS3 would have been if they used a CD format. Can you imagine?

They could advertise it by saying, "The games come with almost 60 discs, you can get up 60 different times per game to change the disc, think of all the added exercise you will be getting while playing"?

That would have made the systems sell like hot cakes.

I think Blu Ray was a big mistake. They could have incorporated this whole workout thing directly correlated with getting up to change discs. It could have been a big hit!

arkephonic

They could incorporate this into the PS4, it isn't too late. Perhaps I should e-mail Sony with the proposal?

Of course it was necessary, especially if you want to watch HD movies (lol @ Xbox and not being able to play HD movies unless you download, which are of inferior quality and sound compared to Blu Ray).

Plus Blu Ray allows games to be bigger, look at games like Uncharted and Killzone and MGS ect...even if thesegames weren't exclusives they wouldn't be possible on 360, it would be like 8 or 9 discs for some of them!

That's how outdated the 360 and it's inferior DVD format is, plus Blu Ray has other advantages like faster loading, better HD output and resolution, better sound, and it's more sturdy and won't scracth as easily.

Blu Ray became the industry standard the moment it hit the market, DVD is an outdated peice of crap now. I can't even watch DVD movies anymore because of how low quality it is, it's like watchinga VHS movie to me, which is the direction DVD is headed. Sony made the wise choice going with Blu Ray, MS did not.

Only depressed Lemmings diss Blu Ray because they are jealous, I would be too if I had to play my games and watch movies on such an outdated and inferior format.

ShadowMoses900

Soooo much fail. You have been fully indoctrinated to believe anything Sony says.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Bigger in terms of memory and content on disc, not in game size it'self. Uncharted 3 alone takes up 47 GB on a Blu Ray disc (not system or save memory, totally different things) DVD can only hold up to around 5 GB at most, even if it was called "compressed" for DVD it wouldn't matter, it's simply not possibl e on 360 in it's current form. It would have be dumbed down to get it to work.

Uncharted 3 would be about 8 discs on Xbox 360. That's not a joke or an overexaggeration either, that is the truth. That's how much MS shot themselves in the foot this gen by not getting Blu Ray.

ShadowMoses900

Lol 8 GB? Ooooh so scary, Blu Ray is 50 GB! Looks like you shot yourself in the foot choosing to buy such an obvioulsyinferior format, and you chose to do so knowing about the better one. That's even worse.

And lol at thinking MS is the only one making profit, Sony is doing fine mr Delta. Get over your obsession with them going under, must be the Lem drugs you've been taking, who sold them to you? Was it LooseENDS? I told you not to play with him, he has multiple personalities you know.

Drugs arn't cool man, if you want to be cool buy a PS3, that's what makes you REALLY cool, trust me I know, I have PS3 and I'm REALLY cool.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]MS is the one making profit, they hardly shot themselves in the foot did they, you shot yourself in the foot when you said DVD disks only hold 5gb, the old xbox 360 disks held 6.8gb and the new XDG 3 format holds 8gb.delta3074

Lol 8 GB? Ooooh so scary, Blu Ray is 50 GB! Looks like you shot yourself in the foot choosing to buy such an obvioulsyinferior format, and you chose to do so knowing about the better one. That's even worse.

And lol at thinking MS is the only one making profit, Sony is doing fine mr Delta. Get over your obsession with them going under, must be the Lem drugs you've been taking, who sold them to you? Was it LooseENDS? I told you not to play with him, he has multiple personalities you know.

Drugs arn't cool man, if you want to be cool buy a PS3, that's what makes you REALLY cool, trust me I know, I have PS3 and I'm REALLY cool.

I was not aware that you were a MS share holder, and had inside knowledge of how Sony and other big giants run things and their seasonal reports. That is impressive, what's your salary like? I mean I could pull outa rap sheet of MS losses but I'm no expert like you are.

I mean you clearly know, afterall you have a quote from the president which you think he is saying they are going out of business, when I thought he was just saying he was going cahng the company better.

But what do I know, I'm just a guy on the internet right? I mean Sony must sure be in the crapper, what with them outselling the 360 ever since the PS3 slim launched and making so many great scoring and selling exclusives, they are sure going out ofbusiness.

Sony must surely be doomed....

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

Let me answer a question with a question.

Was CD necessary for the PS1?

Was DVD necessary for the PS2?

Was a disc format even necessary at all?

It just matters how important it is to you, that's all it really comes down to.

Why didn't we just stick with CD? It worked for the Dreamcast, it worked for the PS1, why shouldn't we just continue to use CD format? I mean, the general consensus is that getting up to change discs isn't a burden, so what's the big deal?

A CD holds a maximum of 700MB of data.

A game like Final Fantasy XIII is 37.6GB in size.

So you have to ask yourself, would you mind having Final Fantasy XIII on 54 discs? You would only have to get up and change discs 54 times. That really doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I mean, afterall, you would be getting a little bit of exercise. The Wii gives you a little bit of exercise, and look how well that sold?

I can just see it now in my head, how successful the 360 and the PS3 would have been if they used a CD format. Can you imagine?

They could advertise it by saying, "The games come with almost 60 discs, you can get up 60 different times per game to change the disc, think of all the added exercise you will be getting while playing"?

That would have made the systems sell like hot cakes.

I think Blu Ray was a big mistake. They could have incorporated this whole workout thing directly correlated with getting up to change discs. It could have been a big hit!

arkephonic

They could incorporate this into the PS4, it isn't too late. Perhaps I should e-mail Sony with the proposal?

If they've listened to you the wii and kineckt would have been total flop !!!

Man, MS and Nintendo never learn !!!

Is Shadow Moses getting owned in this thread as well? It's hard to take that guy seriously when he says things like this.

I did think it was better than Resistance 3 though, that game sucks. Couldn't even finish the demo, that's how bad it was.ShadowMoses900

I can't tell if it is all an act or if he was born that way.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]MS is the one making profit, they hardly shot themselves in the foot did they, you shot yourself in the foot when you said DVD disks only hold 5gb, the old xbox 360 disks held 6.8gb and the new XDG 3 format holds 8gb.delta3074

Lol 8 GB? Ooooh so scary, Blu Ray is 50 GB! Looks like you shot yourself in the foot choosing to buy such an obvioulsyinferior format, and you chose to do so knowing about the better one. That's even worse.

And lol at thinking MS is the only one making profit, Sony is doing fine mr Delta. Get over your obsession with them going under, must be the Lem drugs you've been taking, who sold them to you? Was it LooseENDS? I told you not to play with him, he has multiple personalities you know.

Drugs arn't cool man, if you want to be cool buy a PS3, that's what makes you REALLY cool, trust me I know, I have PS3 and I'm REALLY cool.

And you just posted something, you don't have any idea about ! Nor you have any clue of japanese culture and business plans, right !

Oh God, ignorance is bliss !

Is Shadow Moses getting owned in this thread as well? It's hard to take that guy seriously when he says things like this.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]I did think it was better than Resistance 3 though, that game sucks. Couldn't even finish the demo, that's how bad it was.arkephonic

I can't tell if it is all an act or if he was born that way.

Dear God man! You want to take this fight over here as well? I'm sorry I pissed all over your mediocre FPS game that you call Resistance 3. Get over it, following me around in everythread and stalking me with Resitancecrap isn't healthy. Only girls follow me around in real life, people do it on here because I'm cool.

Oh and I am not being "owned' in this thread, I am WINNING this thread, I win all threads, get over it. You can't beat me, you can try, but it's poinltess.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

Is Shadow Moses getting owned in this thread as well? It's hard to take that guy seriously when he says things like this.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]I did think it was better than Resistance 3 though, that game sucks. Couldn't even finish the demo, that's how bad it was.ShadowMoses900

I can't tell if it is all an act or if he was born that way.

Dear God man! You want to take this fight over here as well? I'm sorry I pissed all over your mediocre FPS game that you call Resistance 3. Get over it, following me around in everythread and stalking me with Resitancecrap isn't healthy. Only girls follow me around in real life, people do it on here because I'm cool.

Oh and I am not being "owned' in this thread, I am WINNING this thread, I win all threads, get over it. You can't beat me, you can try, but it's poinltess.

Lol, if this is your idea of winning, I'd say you're a bit delusional.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

I can't tell if it is all an act or if he was born that way.

arkephonic

Dear God man! You want to take this fight over here as well? I'm sorry I pissed all over your mediocre FPS game that you call Resistance 3. Get over it, following me around in everythread and stalking me with Resitancecrap isn't healthy. Only girls follow me around in real life, people do it on here because I'm cool.

Oh and I am not being "owned' in this thread, I am WINNING this thread, I win all threads, get over it. You can't beat me, you can try, but it's poinltess.

Lol, if this is your idea of winning, I'd say you're a bit delusional.

Too bad for you that my game collection beat's your game collection. I saw your links in your sig, you treat your games and hardware like crap, leaving your controllers lying around on the floor (is that carpeting? I don't have carpet at my house, I have hardwood floors so I win again)

and most of my games are on PS3, youhave games on PS3 AND 360! And some of them arethe same game! That makes no sense, I only play my games on PS3 so Iwin!

Like I said, get over it. You can't beat me.

If not for the PS3 Blu Ray may have not won the format war, so for Sony it was definitely necessary

hockeyruler12

yes to succeed and make Blu-ray popular which they did. Was DVD necessary for PS2 yes it was games were getting bigger same with the bluray. They should have just make a 25GB DVD instead of a starting a new format the PS3 would cost less but most like would have sold more then the x360 by now since most people forgot that the PS3 got delayed in Euro cuz of the bluray which costed sony money

DontBeHatin1983

I'm gonna have to explain this to you. A 25 gb dvd is a blu-ray. The only known way to make a single-layered 25 gb disk known to man(unless there is a strange new format developed within the last 5 years) is blu-ray. Sure they could have used HD DVD's like the 360, but they aren't nearly as good as blu-rays. I mean, a single layered bluray can hold 25 gigs, a duel-layered can hold 50. For HD DVD it's 15 and 30. It would have cost them the same if not more.

Oh there is no doubt. It separated the technology between the Xbox and the Ps3 and aided in its supremacy (in the technological department at least). As well as helped add value to non-gamers for the PS3.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Dear God man! You want to take this fight over here as well? I'm sorry I pissed all over your mediocre FPS game that you call Resistance 3. Get over it, following me around in everythread and stalking me with Resitancecrap isn't healthy. Only girls follow me around in real life, people do it on here because I'm cool.

Oh and I am not being "owned' in this thread, I am WINNING this thread, I win all threads, get over it. You can't beat me, you can try, but it's poinltess.

ShadowMoses900

Lol, if this is your idea of winning, I'd say you're a bit delusional.

Too bad for you that my game collection beat's your game collection. I saw your links in your sig, you treat your games and hardware like crap, leaving your controllers lying around on the floor (is that carpeting? I don't have carpet at my house, I have hardwood floors so I win again)

and most of my games are on PS3, youhave games on PS3 AND 360! And some of them arethe same game! That makes no sense, I only play my games on PS3 so Iwin!

Like I said, get over it. You can't beat me.

Lets see some pics of said collection. I like seeing other people's collections, if yours is better than mine, more power to ya.

Lol, and wait a minute, what's wrong with having games on multiple platforms?

Can't you tell in the picture that I intentionally took that hardware out and set it on the ground? It's normally put away in cabinets and drawers.

I live in a 3 story house in a really nice area that I own and have completely paid off 100% of, and I'm only 27 years old, I'd say that's pretty dang good. The top floor is carpet, the rest of the house is hardwood floors.

So no, you haven't won at anything all day, lol.

It was essential in making me make it my home theater system, because Blu-Ray movies can't be beaten. I can't go back to HD, and I don't have to pay a subscription fee to enjoy Netflix, Hulu, and other great video services on my PS3. yoshi_64

[QUOTE="jimmypsn"]

[QUOTE="Diviniuz"]it wasn't about disc swapping. It was about establishing a new disc format at homes like sony did the previous gen with DvDsJohnny_Rock

Yeah this I understand as well. I really don't know how well the blu-ray market is doing. I don't own any blurays. I mainly use netflix and on demand downloads these days. But was it worth it. It makes more sense for blu-ray for next gen though.

Say goodbye to DVD's within the next 5 years.

And as far as TC's original statement, Blu Ray is the only reason I bought the PS3. If it was a game only system I would have passed on it.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Of course it was necessary, especially if you want to watch HD movies (lol @ Xbox and not being able to play HD movies unless you download, which are of inferior quality and sound compared to Blu Ray).

Plus Blu Ray allows games to be bigger, look at games like Uncharted and Killzone and MGS ect...even if thesegames weren't exclusives they wouldn't be possible on 360, it would be like 8 or 9 discs for some of them!

That's how outdated the 360 and it's inferior DVD format is, plus Blu Ray has other advantages like faster loading, better HD output and resolution, better sound, and it's more sturdy and won't scracth as easily.

Blu Ray became the industry standard the moment it hit the market, DVD is an outdated peice of crap now. I can't even watch DVD movies anymore because of how low quality it is, it's like watchinga VHS movie to me, which is the direction DVD is headed. Sony made the wise choice going with Blu Ray, MS did not.

Only depressed Lemmings diss Blu Ray because they are jealous, I would be too if I had to play my games and watch movies on such an outdated and inferior format.

Fizzman

Soooo much fail. You have been fully indoctrinated to believe anything Sony says.

Don't even bother. Posters like ShadowMoses won't ever get it.

Blu-ray will fail if sony stops supporting it. It's been 6 years and the only people with blu-ray drives in their computers are tech enthusiasts.

Necessary for the system? No

Necessary for sony in general? Yes

You're thinking about it backwards, Blu-ray wasn't necessary for the PS3, The PS3 was necessary for Blu-ray.

Yes

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Lol 8 GB? Ooooh so scary, Blu Ray is 50 GB! Looks like you shot yourself in the foot choosing to buy such an obvioulsyinferior format, and you chose to do so knowing about the better one. That's even worse.

And lol at thinking MS is the only one making profit, Sony is doing fine mr Delta. Get over your obsession with them going under, must be the Lem drugs you've been taking, who sold them to you? Was it LooseENDS? I told you not to play with him, he has multiple personalities you know.

Drugs arn't cool man, if you want to be cool buy a PS3, that's what makes you REALLY cool, trust me I know, I have PS3 and I'm REALLY cool.

DISSESHOWEDO

And you just posted something, you don't have any idea about ! Nor you have any clue of japanese culture and business plans, right !

Oh God, ignorance is bliss !

[QUOTE="DISSESHOWEDO"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]SONY just posted 2 billion in losses and are 13 billion in debt, if thats your idea of making a profit then more power to you sunshine, even kaz realises SONY is in the crapper, you are the only one who thinks they are not mate, anyway MS has been making profit, HUGE profit on the xbox 360 since 2007, can you honestly say the same about the Ps3? of course not, SONY didn't start making profit on every unti sold until 2010 and even then it was a pittance,lol "I have a very strong sense of crisis about the environment surrounding us," Hirai told a news conference. "We cannot be afraid to make painful choices for the future of Sony. Our rivals and the operating environment won't wait for us." kaz hiraidelta3074

And you just posted something, you don't have any idea about ! Nor you have any clue of japanese culture and business plans, right !

Oh God, ignorance is bliss !

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Bigger in terms of memory and content on disc, not in game size it'self. Uncharted 3 alone takes up 47 GB on a Blu Ray disc (not system or save memory, totally different things) DVD can only hold up to around 5 GB at most, even if it was called "compressed" for DVD it wouldn't matter, it's simply not possibl e on 360 in it's current form. It would have be dumbed down to get it to work.

Uncharted 3 would be about 8 discs on Xbox 360. That's not a joke or an overexaggeration either, that is the truth. That's how much MS shot themselves in the foot this gen by not getting Blu Ray.

ShadowMoses900

Lol 8 GB? Ooooh so scary, Blu Ray is 50 GB! Looks like you shot yourself in the foot choosing to buy such an obvioulsyinferior format, and you chose to do so knowing about the better one. That's even worse.

And lol at thinking MS is the only one making profit, Sony is doing fine mr Delta. Get over your obsession with them going under, must be the Lem drugs you've been taking, who sold them to you? Was it LooseENDS? I told you not to play with him, he has multiple personalities you know.

Drugs arn't cool man, if you want to be cool buy a PS3, that's what makes you REALLY cool, trust me I know, I have PS3 and I'm REALLY cool.

In another thread you said Microsoft only started making profits of the 360 in 2010. And also you failed to provide the numbers for the Sony gaming division.themajormayor

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]MS is the one making profit, they hardly shot themselves in the foot did they, you shot yourself in the foot when you said DVD disks only hold 5gb, the old xbox 360 disks held 6.8gb and the new XDG 3 format holds 8gb.koryuk

Lol 8 GB? Ooooh so scary, Blu Ray is 50 GB! Looks like you shot yourself in the foot choosing to buy such an obvioulsyinferior format, and you chose to do so knowing about the better one. That's even worse.

And lol at thinking MS is the only one making profit, Sony is doing fine mr Delta. Get over your obsession with them going under, must be the Lem drugs you've been taking, who sold them to you? Was it LooseENDS? I told you not to play with him, he has multiple personalities you know.

Drugs arn't cool man, if you want to be cool buy a PS3, that's what makes you REALLY cool, trust me I know, I have PS3 and I'm REALLY cool.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]In another thread you said Microsoft only started making profits of the 360 in 2010. And also you failed to provide the numbers for the Sony gaming division.delta3074

Yes I believe so, it was and still is one the PS3's main selling points. People said the same about the PS1 when Sony adopted CD's and they said the same about the PS2 when they adopted DVD's. This time it didn't work out as great because of the ridiculous launch cost.

Did Blu-Ray play a hand in that cost? Absolutely. But, I still think it's good Sony went with it. It pushes technology forward.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="themajormayor"]In another thread you said Microsoft only started making profits of the 360 in 2010. And also you failed to provide the numbers for the Sony gaming division.themajormayor

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="delta3074"]no i didn't, i said the 360 started making profit in 2007 but the entertainment and devices devision wasn't back in the black from the xbox losses and RROD until 2010, you need to learn to read, either that or you need to stop twisting what people say to suit your own agenda. Profit from unit sales=/= overall profit, learn some economics kiddelta3074

No, but the PS3 was necessary to help push Blu-ray.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="delta3074"]BTec's are not graded like that, i got a pass with distinction, the highest grade you can get from a Btec, seriouly, a Btec national diploma is halfway to getting a degree, i believe the playstation 3 in itself is profitable, they are definitly selling it for more than it costs them to produce but thats not the whole picture you then have advertising and server upkeep, online security, first party games developement cost, it doesn't help SONY that the playstation is part of the same division as there TV's and mobiles though, i feel that they shoud seperate there playstation division tp protect it from losses from there TV's and mobiles, hopefully Kaz has this in mind, personally if i was him i would dump TV's and mobiles and focus on consoles and handhelds and try to regain the position they had with the Ps1 and Ps2, weaker hardware but with an amazing line up of games, the Ps1 is my favorite console of all time that why i am playing mostly Ps1 games on my droid at the moment, want to get a Vita or Experia play though, touch screen is far from ideal and my samsun galaxy is not the greates phone either.delta3074

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="delta3074"]i am not sure what the US equivelent is,yeah, i know the majority of the revenue and operational income comes from software and that appears to be a very strong area for SONY at the moment, i just wish they had a franchise that could sell on the same level as Halo, my fave Ps3 game is KZ2 and i actually thought that would be the Ps equivelent of Halo and i suppose it would have been if slack jawed gamers hadn't complained so much about the controls which i though where brilliant, added a real chellenge and the feeling that 'OMG i am actually playing this game with skill' then they sold out and codified it with KZ3, i really love having to compensate for recoil in a game and the fact that you couldn't vault a wall like superman, i loved the physics as well and the weapond models where top notch.delta3074

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Frostbite24"] But think of all the people who bought the PS3 as a blu ray player only. If they hadn't implemented it in they would have lost all those sales. As for how it actually affected games the evidence shows that developers haven't utilized the format in any serious way as to make the argument that blu rays are infinitely better than dvds. +10 points for delivering an awesome console and blu ray player, -5 points for making buy into the hype that games on blu ray were somehow going to be better.Frostbite24

-10 points for giving points without the authority to do so

it's not

-10 points for being a liar

-50 points for impersonating an adjudicator.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] Then why don't you say revenue instead? You can't talk about profits before talking about all the costs first. And still waiting for those numbers. I already got a B in basic microeconomics a few months ago. I don't need to learn ANYTHING! Except for basic macroeconomics & intermediate micro/macro...themajormayor

a high schooler asking other people for credentials?

gotta love system wars

No I live in Europe we have bachelor here too. 3 years. themajormayor

umm... I live in europe and we no longer have Bachelor's degrees here, 3 years are not bachelor's degrees here

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="delta3074"]because the correct word is profit ,revenue or operational income is EVERYTHING you get back, profit is what you get back above your operational costs, i know what i am talking about so please stop trying to discredit me all the time and the reasons i didn't get you thie figures was because i already had, the playstation is part of the same division that makes the TV's, Mobile phones and PC's which is the department responsible for the 2.9 billion LOSS sony just made, there are no individual figures for SONY's playstation, don't believe me here is SONY's official fanances PDF, and NO i am not going to break it down or explain it to you, somebody with your financial 'prowess' will have no problem understanding it. http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11q2_sony.pdf by the way, a btec national diploma is the equivelent of 4 A (advanced) levels over here, slightly better than 'Basic' wouldn't you think.rilpas

a high schooler asking other people for credentials?

gotta love system wars

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="delta3074"]i won't ever get a full degree, i work in a factory, i did work expereience for legal and general assurance and was put off working in an office for life, i did my Btec years ago after i left the Army, it's probably out of date but i will never forget the knowledge, although i am quite savvy at Maths and finances it's not my thing, my parents pressured me into doing it thinking i would become a bank manager or business man one day but i have very different ideas, my family used to be lords in northampton where i live, sir thomas samwell was the first baronet and MP for northamptonshire and we have a family crest and all that, my parents where just trying to reacpture all of that but i ain't interested, i like being a peasant and i have no asppirations to be rich, i just want to live my life and game and support my wife and kids, doing finances actually gives me a headache,loldelta3074

personally: I'm only a year away from finishing my degree... but I've already made the decision of moving to the US (where my wife is working right now), chances are with or without my degree I won't find a job in my area

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] No I live in Europe we have bachelor here too. 3 years. rilpas

umm... I live in europe and we no longer have Bachelor's degrees here, 3 years are not bachelor's degrees here