We, console players, also want to play complex games

How I wish I'd trade in every single meaningless indie game in order to play Wasteland 2 or upcoming Planescape Torment sequel on a console. Why can't these games be ported?

@Salt_The_Fries: Ask inexile. I think they initially planned for a console version but don't know much about it.

Where did this notion that PC games are more complex than other platforms come from? Mainstreaming and Consolisation are parallel processes, sure, but they aren't the same thing. If they were the same thing then consoles themselves couldn't have experienced mainstreaming across the last few generations.

A majority of the technicality and complexity of games comes from the (relatively undemanding) number crunching happening under the hood (at least if we are talking about RPGs/SRPGs). It's why you can find some of the most demanding, complex entries into the genre... on handhelds.

No we don't..... we want Deep games, not Complex Games.

Nope console gamers vote with their wallets and they vote for the shallow and complacent. PC will always be the thinking mans platform, last year as you say wastelands 2 but also Divinity, Ethan Carter and This war of mine to name a few more.

You and your fear of stats...pffft :D

@Salt_The_Fries:

Stats are cool, just look at Yugi-Oh.... its the abstraction that pains me and I know the Plsnescape Sequel is going to have'em.

@SapSacPrime: Ethan Carter is coming to PS4.

PC gamers buy all the same shit in droves as console gamers, it's just that 1) it's a relatively smaller percentage of PC gamers compared to console (but that the actual numbers are higher goes without saying) and 2) there's a larger real actual number looking for more complex games (percentage is up in the air, but it's safe to say it is higher than console as consoles are the where the parallel process of mainstreaming is highest).

Thinking man's platform? You didn't even think that demographic range and size is a factor was a factor. How much thinking can really be going on?

There is no excuse to conflate the platform you play on with your character. It is unacceptable by any measure be it real-life, the internet or even System Wars itself. Your comment (and rightly so) is a damning indictment of your own character that stands as one of many in a long-line that speaks to the same disgusting thought processes of many a PC gamer. Quite why the community hasn't disowned you is anyone's guess.

why are you a console gamer if you want to play games like those?

Mission: Choose a gaming platform

Status: Failed

@Gamerno6666:

I know, hopefully it will be successful there too (I am aware that PS has supported this sort of game in the past, one of my favourite examples is shadow of memories).

@Articuno76:

I see the error of my ways thank you so much; it was wrong of me to claim the only platform I can get my fix of strategy games on is the thinking mans platform... I'm sure there are dozens of jrpgs etc with as much depth as total war or crusader kings.

lol salty fries thread again

Well, the main reason is that controllers require a reworking of the games mechanics. Most often than not, gamepad oriented mechanics can translate to keyboard and mouse well. The reverse is trickier.

Sure, consoles can support K/M, but forcing someone to buy another controll device to play a game is just wrong. It must be an addition, not a mandatory thing.

>2 mouse and keyboard games
>wonders why they can't be ported
>both of them are by smaller teams with a limited budget

Come on.

Also yeah. I'd rather have actual depth or straight up complexity. Not that something like Divinity didn't offer depth (it did), but there is a difference. And frankly we do get it from developers like Platinum and From Software. Every now and then Capcom.

Because if anybody changes the current controller "standard" then everybody cries like baby.

but but but but the exist?

probably suck at them git gud son

Good to hear. Too bad industry mostly contains casual gamers and big devs usually target these people to make more money. Most of their games are shallow and get boring pretty fast.

@Articuno76: Europa Universalis IV and Crusader Kings II say hi.

How are those games complex?

This is so patronizingly stupid

@SolidGame_basic:

You of all people have no right to be saying such things.....

Games like Planescape and Wasteland are built from the ground up for PC. They're not ideal for consoles whatsoever, and the developers may not have the means or resources to port them over.

Seriously guy, stop making threads.

@Cloud_imperium:

Ironically the same holds true for complex games. They also get boring pretty fast. Actually they start boring and just get more and more tedious.

A good example would be Flight Simulator X. I can fill up a whole page on my own listing them down. But, here's a few:

@jun_aka_pekto:

Thats not a game...... at least not deliberately...... its a simulator.....

It has missions and objectives just like other games. Heck. It even has a rating. It may not fit the mold. But, it's a game, never mind what the old-timer fans (who like to distance themselves from the "kiddies") of the genre say.

@jun_aka_pekto:

So does Kerbal Space program.....

Any like I said..... its not deliberately a game...... just like war...... its also a game. ... accidently or coincidentally.....

Googling Kerbal Space Program........

"Introducing Kerbal Space Program! KSP is a game where the players create and....."

Nuff said.

@jun_aka_pekto:

I've seen it..... that thing is a sim first and a game second.

Then get a PC. The two games you mentioned can pretty much run on a toaster

Oh sure. I meant the two examples mentioned by the TC

Oh.

Yup. Those games don't require much to run. I see no reason why they can't be on consoles aside from choices made by the developer.

It's not the complexity of those games that keep them away from consoles.

FSX on the other hand..... It's so complex, we may not see another one like it again.

Not as big of a demand on the consoles and it costs a lot of money for smaller studios to port their games. It's not like EA/Acti/Ubisoft where they already have studios set up to handle console ports and work with the major consoles constantly. Smaller studios who produce those games operate on very thin budgets and having to acquire all of the hardware necessary for console development with no real certain terms of payback isn't worth the risk.

A lot of these more complex games already are just skimming by on the PC. Nobody is becoming a millionaire from Wastland 2 or the new Planscape.

Good news that SoE titles like Planetside 2, H1Z1, Landmark, and EverQuest Next are being ported to the PC. These are all most definitely core PC titles first. SoE's shop does not believe that they have to dumb down gameplay to fit them on a console rather that controls can be built around existing gameplay.

Controls are actually rarely the problem. Last gen the consoles weren't powerful enough and this gen there just isn't the demand for those kind of games yet. I think throughout the gen that'll change and more and more indie games will end up on the PS4/Xbox One.

The two he mentioned are a case of risk and uncertainty. They both exist only because of kickstarters (there is a new Planscape Torment game coming) and their success post-launch is already not guaranteed even on the PC. Just being made isn't enough. Porting costs time and money and if there is relatively little demand for the game, there is no point to porting.

This is true of most indie PC games. The demand isn't worth the time and money investment into porting. It's really that simple. Very few games on the PC can actually *not* be done on the consoles. Big RTSs and button heavy MMOs come to mind in addition to flight sims (which there is basically no demand for anyways). That's about it though.

Here's what I recommend.

Instead of spending $400 on a console, $50 a year for online, and an extra $10-$30 for games and premium DLC prices

Take that money, buy yourself a nice $600-$700 PC, and get all the games you seemingly want.

Console players want to play games? I though all they wanted to do was jerk off to Sony and MS conferences and lick corporation asses by throwing their money at shitty games.

No you don't

Otherwise they'd make them for consoles

go make yourself a PC and stop crying like a little bitch. Fakeboy.

*

@groowagon said:

why are you a console gamer if you want to play games like those?

Mission: Choose a gaming platform

Status: Failed

Exactly.

What threads have you created that were noteworthy?

i don't make threads, i just put holes on donuts using my D

Hmmmm.

Has more to do with having to read in those games than needing a m&k

(they don't have awesome action combat either, btw)

@Lulu_Lulu:

When did you start gaming?

Well you game on a children's toy, so what do you expect?

Well, the problem I think for many of these PC centric games is they're just not marketable on consoles. I agree though, I'd love to see more challenging games made for gamers rather than games that become more casual in order to increase it's accessibility to the wider base of consumers (not that I don't enjoy those too I just want to branch out). And some genres are doable. I thought RUSE showed that consoles are still capable of having good RTSs on them with control systems that work, when enough thought is put into it. I'd love to see consoles get something like a Civilizations game, turned based strategy is very doable on consoles because unlike RTSs you don't necessarily need the quick ability to select units and issue commands quickly. But, there's always that marketability issue.

One thing I wished happened last gen was both MS and Sony developed keypad attachments to the controller. It mainly just got used as an easy keyboard for messaging but I really hoped MS and Sony would have encouraged developers to make games that can take advantage of it, maybe to map shortcuts to it. If one reason for these games not ending up on consoles is the issue of control design then this might have helped out a bit.

There's nothing stopping you from gaming on a PC AND Console.

If you really think any of those SRPGs have half the complexity of Silent Storm or Wasteland 2. You sadly are completely mistaken.

And the notion comes from the fact that once upon a time PCs and consoles had completely different version of the same game.Rainbow Six upto the third one was a tactical shooter with an incredibly complex planning phase.The Console version is a standard FPS.The same for Ghost Recon. The original Baldur's Gate games never came to consoles. Instead they got a Diablo-like ARPG in the Baldur's Gate universe. Most D&D games have way too many menus and abilities than a controller could handle. Similar case for Civilization.They had to make a very dumb-down version called Civ:revolution. So even turn-based PC centric games aren't practical. Deus Ex and Morrowind both suffered on console due to their UIs and mechanics that demanded a mouse. ARMA, Freespace, Homeworld etc. also can't be done without the Kb/M.

tl;dr: You should learn about a few PC games before making statements.

Complex games can be found in both home consoles and PCs. People need to search for them.