We're half way through 2008. Is the 360 dead yet? (back from E3 08 aftermath)

[QUOTE="lawlessx"]

"Like I said, I dont see why you are calling out Sony fanboys for dooming the 360 when the 360 fanboys have been playing the same game since the launch of the PS3. Its a fanboy game both groups have been playing, their are no victims just fanboys."

what? all i remember is cows calling the 360 "xbox 1.5" and calling it the next dreamcast and that it would not make past 2 years. :?

Javy03

I am sure fanboys have said that just like fanboys have said "PS3 sales flop, PS3 doomed, PS3 has no games, Sony fans dont buy games, PS3DO, etc..". Then 08 hits and people find out that while everyone was laughing at the PS3s NPDs sales data it actually outsold the 360 that year.

Both groups of fanboys have been dooming eachothers consoles, thats just what they do. Its never been one sided.

any xbox/360 fan that was around the system wars board in 2005 would tell you different. while cows/sony hyped the ps3 to be the 2nd coming of jesus..they all took shots at the 360 in every possible way. for nearly an entire year 360 fans couldnt do much of anything because the ps3 wasnt out yet and cows were very proud to mention how well the ps2 sold.

Well, we talking games, sales, or both? Sales seem to be down but 360 has plenty of good games coming out.Chutebox

whaat is the games you are talking about??

[QUOTE="JPGR-"][QUOTE="lawlessx"]

"Like I said, I dont see why you are calling out Sony fanboys for dooming the 360 when the 360 fanboys have been playing the same game since the launch of the PS3. Its a fanboy game both groups have been playing, their are no victims just fanboys."

what? all i remember is cows calling the 360 "xbox 1.5" and calling it the next dreamcast and that it would not make past 2 years. :?

AdobeArtist

Yes, it's true that there has been bashing and doom-saying on both sides. I never denied that, nor condoned what has been dished out to the PS3. I'm simply focusing on 1 particular issue.

No your not focusing on one issue, your focusing on one side. Thats a big difference because the true issue is simple, its called fanboys. Fanboys make fun of things that compete with the things they love and hold their loves higher then anything with no logic. If you wanna discuss the issue, thats what it is. All your doing is nitpicking and selective shaking your finger to one side.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

I'm asking, since we've been hearing about the demise of this platform for... what is it now? Oh yeah, TWO AND A HALF YEARS. Since late 2005, the forcast has been;

* 360 will be dead in 2006 when PS3 launches
* 360 will be dead in 2007 when Motorstorm and Ratchet and any other "killer app" launches
* 360 will be dead in 2008 when things really pick up for PS3
* and on and on we hear about the end of Microsoft's platform

Now I'm not disputing that PS3 is indeed picking up in the games department, I have never once bought into that "PS3 has no games" BS. I never said it's a bad system. And yeah the price is lower nowwhich makes it as accessible as 360 when it launched. This isn't to be a post about how much better 360 is than PS3 or vice versa.

This is about 360's market health. It still has great games coming for 2008. The game footage of Gears 2 have proven that it's not maxed out after just one year.

Which brings us to two and a half years later since the prophesised demise of 360, and so far it's still vital and kicking :) So where do we go from here? Do you cows want to reschedule the end (yet AGAIN) for 2009? Or will you finally LEARN something from these past 2 years???

* note: Now I'm sure someone will bring up PS3 having a AAAA (well deserved I'm sure) which will somehow be that turning point you've been yearning for, to bring about the console wars outcome you've wanted. But really, will just ONE game, no matter how great it is, bring about the end of a whole platform? Remember how the same was said of other games before that were supposed to "kill the 360".

Javy03

Your looking for logic in a fanboy arguement and only looking at one side. Yes I am sure there have been many fanboys before the PS3 launch taking the EXTREME stance of how the PS3 will kill the 360. But those are few and far between. Not to mention you are turning a blind eye to the most common argument since the PS3s launch which has been that "The PS3 has NO games" and "The PS3 is gonna fail or even be discontinued" and "PS3 sales flop".

So dont call out just one group of fanboys, acknowlege that both 360 fanboys and PS3 fanboys were praising their favorite console to the EXTREME and condemning the console they dislike the most to the EXTREME and avoid getting in the middle.

Its not just PS3 fanboys that are to blame, MS fanboys were far from modest or ignorant and you can easily take the sentence "__________ console is gonna fail" and associate it with all fanboys because all groups are guilty of using this arguement.

You take your logic, and you get the hell out of here!!!

any xbox/360 fan that was around the system wars board in 2005 would tell you different. while cows/sony hyped the ps3 to be the 2nd coming of jesus..they all took shots at the 360 in every possible way. for nearly an entire year 360 fans couldnt do much of anything because the ps3 wasnt out yet and cows were very proud to mention how well the ps2 sold.

lawlessx

If your expecting sympothy, I am sorry I dont have it. This is the name of the game at SW and although there is no logic to it, people come to SW to get involved in this. Its not like the 360 fanboys took the high road, as soon as the PS3 launched they had their fun as well and have been having it back and fourth with PS3 fanboys ever since. I was on right before the launch of the PS3 and saw all the nitpicking going on in SW. It was two sided.

[QUOTE="Javy03"]

Your looking for logic in a fanboy arguement and only looking at one side. Yes I am sure there have been many fanboys before the PS3 launch taking the EXTREME stance of how the PS3 will kill the 360. But those are few and far between. Not to mention you are turning a blind eye to the most common argument since the PS3s launch which has been that "The PS3 has NO games" and "The PS3 is gonna fail or even be discontinued" and "PS3 sales flop".

So dont call out just one group of fanboys, acknowlege that both 360 fanboys and PS3 fanboys were praising their favorite console to the EXTREME and condemning the console they dislike the most to the EXTREME and avoid getting in the middle.

Its not just PS3 fanboys that are to blame, MS fanboys were far from modest or ignorant and you can easily take the sentence "__________ console is gonna fail" and associate it with all fanboys because all groups are guilty of using this arguement.

ericsp2081

You take your logic, and you get the hell out of here!!!

Yes sir.... :(

No your not focusing on one issue, your focusing on one side. Thats a big difference because the true issue is simple, its called fanboys. Fanboys make fun of things that compete with the things they love and hold their loves higher then anything with no logic. If you wanna discuss the issue, thats what it is. All your doing is nitpicking and selective shaking your finger to one side.

Javy03

I think it's safe to say 16% of them are...:P

I think it's safe to say 16% of them are...:P

W1NGMAN-

Oh yeah, eeeeeverybody's a comedian. Well played sir :P :P

[QUOTE="Javy03"]

No your not focusing on one issue, your focusing on one side. Thats a big difference because the true issue is simple, its called fanboys. Fanboys make fun of things that compete with the things they love and hold their loves higher then anything with no logic. If you wanna discuss the issue, thats what it is. All your doing is nitpicking and selective shaking your finger to one side.

JLF1

No I am saying that if you want to prove one side is RIGHT you have to prove the other side is WRONG, but not with selective memory. Are PS3 fanboys wrong for claiming the 360 as a failure? yes, but are 360 fanboys wrong for claiming the PS3 as a failure as well? yes. That is the real situation. So no fanboys are right nore are any of them victims. They are just caught in their silly fanboy games, while we are sitting here trying to bring logic into two illogical arguements.

[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="Javy03"]

No your not focusing on one issue, your focusing on one side. Thats a big difference because the true issue is simple, its called fanboys. Fanboys make fun of things that compete with the things they love and hold their loves higher then anything with no logic. If you wanna discuss the issue, thats what it is. All your doing is nitpicking and selective shaking your finger to one side.

Javy03

No I am saying that if you want to prove one side is RIGHT you have to prove the other side is WRONG, but not with selective memory. Are PS3 fanboys wrong for claiming the 360 as a failure? yes, but are 360 fanboys wrong for claiming the PS3 as a failure as well? yes. That is the real situation. So no fanboys are right nore are any of them victims. They are just caught in their silly fanboy games, while we are sitting here trying to bring logic into two illogical arguements.

[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="Javy03"]

No your not focusing on one issue, your focusing on one side. Thats a big difference because the true issue is simple, its called fanboys. Fanboys make fun of things that compete with the things they love and hold their loves higher then anything with no logic. If you wanna discuss the issue, thats what it is. All your doing is nitpicking and selective shaking your finger to one side.

Javy03

No I am saying that if you want to prove one side is RIGHT you have to prove the other side is WRONG, but not with selective memory. Are PS3 fanboys wrong for claiming the 360 as a failure? yes, but are 360 fanboys wrong for claiming the PS3 as a failure as well? yes. That is the real situation. So no fanboys are right nore are any of them victims. They are just caught in their silly fanboy games, while we are sitting here trying to bring logic into two illogical arguements.

*rubs temples*

Javy, while I am arguing from the standpoint of a 360 gamer, directing this at cows that have made unfounded rants against my platform of preference, I DID in the spirit of fairness acknowledge the error of PS3 bashing in my OP. I even followed up on that in successive posts. What more do you want already? :|

[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="Javy03"]

No your not focusing on one issue, your focusing on one side. Thats a big difference because the true issue is simple, its called fanboys. Fanboys make fun of things that compete with the things they love and hold their loves higher then anything with no logic. If you wanna discuss the issue, thats what it is. All your doing is nitpicking and selective shaking your finger to one side.

Javy03

No I am saying that if you want to prove one side is RIGHT you have to prove the other side is WRONG, but not with selective memory. Are PS3 fanboys wrong for claiming the 360 as a failure? yes, but are 360 fanboys wrong for claiming the PS3 as a failure as well? yes. That is the real situation. So no fanboys are right nore are any of them victims. They are just caught in their silly fanboy games, while we are sitting here trying to bring logic into two illogical arguements.

Only a masochist or a lunatic would honestly believe the world cannot have two or more good consoles. This isn't a zero-sum game, the PS3 getting something good does not make the 360 somehow worse, any more than the 360 getting something good takes away from what the PS3 has - they have what they have, and the more that goes to them both, the more we, the gamer, win.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

[QUOTE="subrosian"]Congratulations 360 - you're the new PC gaming. The Xbox platform, happily dying since 2001.lawlessx

:lol: Nicely put Subrosian, thank you :)

One could even surmise that GTA4 is the new Halo - THE game that is totally overrated, and which you must put down to prove how much "cooler" you are than the masses :roll:

:lol: so im not the only one that noticed this!

Come on lawlessx, I thought you were hipper than that. Gotta keep up with the times man. GTAIV sucks btw. Over rated trash, Rockstar bribed every single review that gave it a 10/10. In fact Rockstar is gonna go bankrupt due to the ammount of money spent bribing seid reviewers. Expect Sony to announce they've saved Rockstar by buying them from Take 2 at E3. Quote me on that :O*

*Please note that this post was pure sarcasm

Neither the Wii, 360 or PS3 are dead and probably won't be for a good few years atleast.ONLYDOD

Where did anyone say 360 would be 'dead?' besides 360's RRODing, I never said they would 'die.'AmyMizuno

:roll: Are you seriously saying you've never seen people post about how the 360 will be dead once "such and such" is released? Either you're blind or you're just... I don't even know >_>

Where did anyone say 360 would be 'dead?' besides 360's RRODing, I never said they would 'die.'AmyMizuno

Where did anyone say 360 would be 'dead?' besides 360's RRODing, I never said they would 'die.'AmyMizuno

Unless you're ban-dodging or have some alt account from the 1990s, you've only been here since March 2008. With all due respect, you'd be completely unable to comment on what has been happening in System Was since before the 360 even launched.

"The 360 will be dead in _____________" has been a common argument of PS3 fans, especially before the PS3 launched.

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]Where did anyone say 360 would be 'dead?' besides 360's RRODing, I never said they would 'die.'JLF1

That's pretty much it right there. No this is not about 360 hardware issue, but how 360 would suddenly sink in the market and go the way of the 3DO and Atari Jaguar because players would abandon it for the Blu Ray on PS3, or such and such game. And yeah, this has been happening for 2 1/2 years.

Where did anyone say 360 would be 'dead?' besides 360's RRODing, I never said they would 'die.'AmyMizuno

No, you were probably saying that 2008 would be the year of the ps3, lawlz.

Both cows and lemmings have predicted doom for the others system. That's how things work among the fanboys of this forum stop trying to single out one group on fanboys because their threads are currently in appearance while the ones from your fellow faction are not.

I'm asking, since we've been hearing about the demise of this platform for... what is it now? Oh yeah, TWO AND A HALF YEARS. Since late 2005, the forcast has been;

* 360 will be dead in 2006 when PS3 launches
* 360 will be dead in 2007 when Motorstorm and Ratchet and any other "killer app" launches
* 360 will be dead in 2008 when things really pick up for PS3
* and on and on we hear about the end of Microsoft's platform

Now I'm notdisputing that PS3 is indeed picking up in the games department, I have never once bought into that "PS3 has no games" BS. I never said it's a bad system. And yeah the price is lower nowwhich makes it as accessible as 360 when it launched. This isn't to be a post about how much better 360 is than PS3 or vice versa.

This is about 360's market health. It still has great games coming for 2008. The game footage of Gears 2 have proven that it's not maxed out after just one year.

Which brings us to two and a half years later since the prophesised demise of 360, and so far it's still vital and kicking :) So where do we go from here? Do you cows want to reschedule the end (yet AGAIN) for 2009? Or will you finally LEARN something from these past 2 years???

* note: Now I'm sure someone will bring up PS3 having a AAAA (well deserved I'm sure) which will somehow be that turning point you've been yearning for, to bring about the console wars outcome you've wanted. But really, will just ONE game, no matter how great it is, bring about the end of a whole platform? Remember how the same was said of other games before that were supposed to "kill the 360".

AdobeArtist

I see someone who is blindly defending one console, the PS3 has more than just ONE game you know.

I remember 360 fanboys telling the same thing to PS3 fanboys when Halo 3 was around the corner and after it's release also, it is just about the "ONE game" tacitc.

"the PS3 is the next dreamcast" was so funny man, "3 AAAs in two months, teh winner", just stop the crap.

Give the cows a break dude, let them have it while they can, it's their year.

The answer is simple, neither console is dead and the PS3 is doing better this year, way better than 360, who expected the PS3 to have two AAAAs in one month? who expected the PS3 to outsell the 360 in NA? who expected the Blu-ray format to win?

So let me get this straight - AdobeArtist is asking (quite reasonably) what arguments Cows have to back up statements made about the 360 dying, when it is clearly still alive. Then, at least two users who have PS3 exclusive games in their signatures/avatar (one of them also with a PS3 exclusive in their username), instead of counter arguing, have decided to accuse Adobe of being biased. This is despite the fact that Adobe has already acknowledged that 360 owners have made similar statements about the PS3, and his insistence this is not a console vs console thread.

"Now I'm notdisputing that PS3 is indeed picking up in the games department, I have never once bought into that "PS3 has no games" BS. I never said it's a bad system. And yeah the price is lower nowwhich makes it as accessible as 360 when it launched. This isn't to be a post about how much better 360 is than PS3 or vice versa."

Some things never change. System Wars, sadly, applies to this statement as well. The classic "he-made-a-logical-unbiased-post-must-call-him-a-fanboy-or-biased" response that many Cows, Lemmings and Sheep have been known to use from time to time is still a favoured strategy I see.

lol wut? if anything it was the ps3 that fanboys thought of as dead... you must be new here...Rage010101

I checked both our profiles. I joined 6 months before you did. I know I didn't haullucinate what I saw around here for 2 years. YOU'RE just playing blind-man :roll:

So let me get this straight - AdobeArtist is asking (quite reasonably) what arguments Cows have to back up statements made about the 360 dying, when it is clearly still alive. Then, at least two users who have PS3 exclusive games in their signatures/avatar (one of them also with a PS3 exclusive in their username), instead of counter arguing, have decided to accuse Adobe of being biased. This is despite the fact that Adobe has already acknowledged that 360 owners have made similar statements about the PS3, and his insistence this is not a console vs console thread.

"Now I'm notdisputing that PS3 is indeed picking up in the games department, I have never once bought into that "PS3 has no games" BS. I never said it's a bad system. And yeah the price is lower nowwhich makes it as accessible as 360 when it launched. This isn't to be a post about how much better 360 is than PS3 or vice versa."

Some things never change. System Wars, sadly, applies to this statement as well. The classic "he-made-a-logical-unbiased-post-must-call-him-a-fanboy-or-biased" response that many Cows, Lemmings and Sheep have been known to use from time to time is still a favoured strategy I see.

Quofan

"But really, will just ONE game, no matter how great it is, bring about the end of a whole platform?"

That makes no sense whatsoever, just saying.

And what does my username or sig have to do with the argument?

360 is factually selling at a faster rate then it did in 07.

ANd with e3 around the corner, this year is far from over for 360.

-GhostMLD-

the ps3 is outselling the 360, if gears 2 and fable2 don't do good it is over, and if Microsoft does fix the rrod this year what is everyone going to do with their old 360's.Edit=by the way this is a opinion

I don't understand the point of this thread.

"360 will die... " has definitely been said, but it is the hardcore cows that say this. Just like the hardcore lemmings say the "PS3 will die..." or "PS3 has no games" or "MGSIV won't be a system seller" etc.

If we are talking sales which seems to be what this thread's about, the general argument by cows was that 360 would eventually be overtaken by the PS3 worldwide. That definitely looks to happen, not this year, but probably in 2009 when GT5/FFXIII arrive.

That's what this thread should be about but that is difficult to argue against.

That's quite a revisionist take on the PS3 Fanboy stance from 2005 / 2006. It was "the PS3 will obliterate the 360" not "we'll overtake the 360 in 2006 *err* 2007 *err* 2008 *err* 2009..." (as we see now). Now, then, why is the 360 still around? All AdobeArtist is doing is asking the same question PC gamers have asked for years "if PC gaming has been dying since 1980, why does it keep growing every year?"

No one has a good answer because it's not dying.

[QUOTE="Quofan"]

So let me get this straight - AdobeArtist is asking (quite reasonably) what arguments Cows have to back up statements made about the 360 dying, when it is clearly still alive. Then, at least two users who have PS3 exclusive games in their signatures/avatar (one of them also with a PS3 exclusive in their username), instead of counter arguing, have decided to accuse Adobe of being biased. This is despite the fact that Adobe has already acknowledged that 360 owners have made similar statements about the PS3, and his insistence this is not a console vs console thread.

"Now I'm notdisputing that PS3 is indeed picking up in the games department, I have never once bought into that "PS3 has no games" BS. I never said it's a bad system. And yeah the price is lower nowwhich makes it as accessible as 360 when it launched. This isn't to be a post about how much better 360 is than PS3 or vice versa."

Some things never change. System Wars, sadly, applies to this statement as well. The classic "he-made-a-logical-unbiased-post-must-call-him-a-fanboy-or-biased" response that many Cows, Lemmings and Sheep have been known to use from time to time is still a favoured strategy I see.

HAZE-Unit

"But really, will just ONE game, no matter how great it is, bring about the end of a whole platform?"

That makes no sense whatsoever, just saying.

And what does my username or sig have to do with the argument?

OK, let me clarify that line. I have in no way tried to infer that PS3 has only one good game. I fully acknowledge other good titles like Heavenly Sword, Ratchet, Uncharted and Warhawk. Even the AAs are GOOD.

But then suddenly, PS3 gets a AAAAE, it's highest ranking exclusive game, and we get this ressurgence of the "NOW the 360 is teh doomed" posts. Like before when they predicted that Motorstorm and Uncharted would make people abandon their 360, thus sealing it's grim fate to join the gallows where 3DO, NeoGeo, and others went before in market failure.

I classified MGS4 as one game that stood above all the rest in PS3's library, in it's own league being a 10 if you will, but not that it was the only noteworthy game PS3 has. Sorry if there's a misunderstanding here. And again asked if that will realistically cast the 360 into extinction - being that the sonyfans feel this particular game gives them cause to forsee 360's doom, as they had simply done before, just with other titles.

That's quite a revisionist take on the PS3 Fanboy stance from 2005 / 2006. It was "the PS3 will obliterate the 360" not "we'll overtake the 360 in 2006 *err* 2007 *err* 2008 *err* 2009..." (as we see now). Now, then, why is the 360 still around? All AdobeArtist is doing is asking the same question PC gamers have asked for years "if PC gaming has been dying since 1980, why does it keep growing every year?"

No one has a good answer because it's not dying.

subrosian

Directed at me?

I think those who are making "PC is dying" threads are also the minority, hardcore fanboys. If you actually read the threads on those you'll realise even the console fanboys attack the OP.

People have a weird assumption that SW is overrun by hardcore fanboys but the reality is that they just get the most attention due to their prolific thread-making.

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

That's quite a revisionist take on the PS3 Fanboy stance from 2005 / 2006. It was "the PS3 will obliterate the 360" not "we'll overtake the 360 in 2006 *err* 2007 *err* 2008 *err* 2009..." (as we see now). Now, then, why is the 360 still around? All AdobeArtist is doing is asking the same question PC gamers have asked for years "if PC gaming has been dying since 1980, why does it keep growing every year?"

No one has a good answer because it's not dying.

the-very-best

Directed at me?

I think those who are making "PC is dying" threads are also the minority, hardcore fanboys. If you actually read the threads on those you'll realise even the console fanboys attack the OP.

People have a weird assumption that SW is overrun by hardcore fanboys but the reality is that they just get the most attention due to their prolific thread-making.

So the people who spend the most time in System Wars, and make the most threads, and post the most often are fanboys, and yet somehow you don't consider SW overrun with them?

You work for Sony, and I'm willing to bet you put out a far more eloquent sort of statement regarding their product, than, say, a teenager who got excited by a TV commercial. That's a given - but it doesn't change that there was, for lack of a better expression, a crapload of trash-talking "360 is dead / dying / a waste / doomed / screwed" talk over the past two years from the Sony camp - and yet, through it all, the 360 is somehow alive.

-

You're cleverly trying to turn this argument into a completely different one "that the PS3 will catch the 360" - that's not what this topic is about, I certainly have no intention of letting you hijack it, and while I appreciate the subtle move on your part, at the same time I find it an insult to my intelligence.

They may not be the company you keep - you may consider them riff-raff, but it was the claim of the majority, it certainly came up numerous time in the MGS4 wake, and it warrants addressing. The 360 is dying? Really?

So the people who spend the most time in System Wars, and make the most threads, and post the most often are fanboys, and yet somehow you don't consider SW overrun with them?

You work for Sony, and I'm willing to bet you put out a far more eloquent sort of statement regarding their product, than, say, a teenager who got excited by a TV commercial. That's a given - but it doesn't change that there was, for lack of a better expression, a crapload of trash-talking "360 is dead / dying / a waste / doomed / screwed" talk over the past two years from the Sony camp - and yet, through it all, the 360 is somehow alive.

-

You're cleverly trying to turn this argument into a completely different one "that the PS3 will catch the 360" - that's not what this topic is about, I certainly have no intention of letting you hijack it, and while I appreciate the subtle move on your part, at the same time I find it an insult to my intelligence.

They may not be the company you keep - you may consider them riff-raff, but it was the claim of the majority, it certainly came up numerous time in the MGS4 wake, and it warrants addressing. The 360 is dying? Really?

subrosian

I don't see how I can argue against the opinion. I mean, to me, it's pretty obvious that the hardcore fanboys who say things like "PC/PS3/360 will die..." etc are the minority. I mean, look at the first few pages right now, there isn't a major fanboyish thread to that degree. It's only when one comes along that it garners so much attention/replies that people start thinking, "oh, so they're all saying that now."

Also, it wasn't exactly "subtle". I made my point very clearly, as I always do. I don't see why I need to sugarcoat things. To me, what Adobe put in the OP is a generalisation directed at the entire cow faction, doesn't make sense to me when I see more arguments of what I said in my first post, although those are never adressed because they're not fanboyish. See, just goes to show fanboys get the most attention. Look at how famous ps_john has become, he didn't even make that many posts.

[QUOTE="lawlessx"]

"Like I said, I dont see why you are calling out Sony fanboys for dooming the 360 when the 360 fanboys have been playing the same game since the launch of the PS3. Its a fanboy game both groups have been playing, their are no victims just fanboys."

what? all i remember is cows calling the 360 "xbox 1.5" and calling it the next dreamcast and that it would not make past 2 years. :?

Javy03

I am sure fanboys have said that just like fanboys have said "PS3 sales flop, PS3 doomed, PS3 has no games, Sony fans dont buy games, PS3DO, etc..". Then 08 hits and people find out that while everyone was laughing at the PS3s NPDs sales data it actually outsold the 360 that year.

Both groups of fanboys have been dooming eachothers consoles, thats just what they do. Its never been one sided.

well there's actually truth to what the 360 fanboys were saying. let me explain:

PS3 sales flop: truth. why? do you actually remember the ps3 launch. do you remember seeing pictures of extremely short lines for the console and stacks of ps3's on retail floors? the french launch and the south korean launches had to be the biggest embarrassments for sony because not only did shoppers fail to show up, MS brought in a barge with the 360 logo. did you forget the cows photoshopping the image to show the barge sinking with RroD? let;s not forget sony execs claiming that if anyone found a ps3 in a store for more than 5 minutes, that he will personally give the finder $1200 for EACH unit. do you remember how many forumites/lemmings showed pictures of the ps3 in store shelves in stacks of more than 10? also the picture of stacks of ps3's made to spell out "WII".

PS3 doomed: the ps3 was doomed at the start. no one was buying the console and it had an anemic lineup of games. all of which flopped while all of the games cows were hyping for since e3 2005 were held back for years. only one has come out, mgs 4, but it is not an indicator to how well the others will do if in fact they do well and not flop like lair, haze, uncharted, r&c, heavenly sword, and motorstorm. not to mention the initial cost of the unit at $600 without taxes, games, and accessories.

Ps3 has no games: at first, all it had were flops and games that were not "purchase caliber". most of the games, even resistance. were pretty much rentals. the only reason resistance sold so well is because nothing else was available for the ps3.hell nothing worth owning came out until uncharted and r&c but those are flops according to system wars rules.

Sony fans don't buy games: at first this was true. the attatch rates of games to consoles was abysmal. what was it initially? less than one game for every one console. that has changed now but, correct me if i am wrong, the 360 still has a much higher attach rate. also, the sony execs decided to remove bc from the ps3 to "encourage owners to buy ps3 games" (there reasoning not mine).

PS3DO: huge similarities here. the high price, the massive failed games, the low attach rates, the small userbase, the minimal amounts of games, overhyped technology which truth be told is not actually made for gaming (the cell be was not made for gaming. it was designed by ibm and toshiba for video transcoding purposes but then later sony had the not so bright idea of using it for gaming. the rsx was made for games but came to the market already obsolete when compared to the 360's prototype X2800 gpu. the xdr ram in the ps3 was designed for medical imaging, not gaming.)

[QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"]

360 is factually selling at a faster rate then it did in 07.

ANd with e3 around the corner, this year is far from over for 360.

Iceman2911

the ps3 is outselling the 360, if gears 2 and fable2 don't do good it is over, and if Microsoft does fix the rrod this year what is everyone going to do with their old 360's.Edit=by the way this is a opinion

if ms really wnat to sell console, they should lower the price of the core to $199, the premium to $249, and the elite to $399. this will allow ms to sell 200K or more units per month until there is another price drop. they should do this before GeOW 2 goes on sale. hell if they really wanted to push sales, they'll include halo or gta 4 in the box or give the purchaser a coupon for a free copy of GeOW 2 (if the drop happens before GeOW 2 goes on sale) or give the purchaser a free copy of the game with the purchase of the premium or elite unit. both options come complete with 3 free months xbl gold.

with fabele 2 coming out and about to destroy everything on the ps3 its not going anywere.blitzkid1

*rubs temples*

y'know, applying this flawed tactic in the other direction, actually doesn't help the 360 cause. What you said about Fable 2 is no more valid than what cows have said about MGS4, GT5, FF13, and so on and so on. Maybe you think you're helping, but I really don't want that kind of help :roll:

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="lawlessx"]

"Like I said, I dont see why you are calling out Sony fanboys for dooming the 360 when the 360 fanboys have been playing the same game since the launch of the PS3. Its a fanboy game both groups have been playing, their are no victims just fanboys."

what? all i remember is cows calling the 360 "xbox 1.5" and calling it the next dreamcast and that it would not make past 2 years. :?

cowgriller

I am sure fanboys have said that just like fanboys have said "PS3 sales flop, PS3 doomed, PS3 has no games, Sony fans dont buy games, PS3DO, etc..". Then 08 hits and people find out that while everyone was laughing at the PS3s NPDs sales data it actually outsold the 360 that year.

Both groups of fanboys have been dooming eachothers consoles, thats just what they do. Its never been one sided.

well there's actually truth to what the 360 fanboys were saying. let me explain:

PS3 sales flop: truth. why? do you actually remember the ps3 launch. do you remember seeing pictures of extremely short lines for the console and stacks of ps3's on retail floors? the french launch and the south korean launches had to be the biggest embarrassments for sony because not only did shoppers fail to show up, MS brought in a barge with the 360 logo. did you forget the cows photoshopping the image to show the barge sinking with RroD? let;s not forget sony execs claiming that if anyone found a ps3 in a store for more than 5 minutes, that he will personally give the finder $1200 for EACH unit. do you remember how many forumites/lemmings showed pictures of the ps3 in store shelves in stacks of more than 10? also the picture of stacks of ps3's made to spell out "WII".

PS3 doomed: the ps3 was doomed at the start. no one was buying the console and it had an anemic lineup of games. all of which flopped while all of the games cows were hyping for since e3 2005 were held back for years. only one has come out, mgs 4, but it is not an indicator to how well the others will do if in fact they do well and not flop like lair, haze, uncharted, r&c, heavenly sword, and motorstorm. not to mention the initial cost of the unit at $600 without taxes, games, and accessories.

Ps3 has no games: at first, all it had were flops and games that were not "purchase caliber". most of the games, even resistance. were pretty much rentals. the only reason resistance sold so well is because nothing else was available for the ps3.hell nothing worth owning came out until uncharted and r&c but those are flops according to system wars rules.

Sony fans don't buy games: at first this was true. the attatch rates of games to consoles was abysmal. what was it initially? less than one game for every one console. that has changed now but, correct me if i am wrong, the 360 still has a much higher attach rate. also, the sony execs decided to remove bc from the ps3 to "encourage owners to buy ps3 games" (there reasoning not mine).

PS3DO: huge similarities here. the high price, the massive failed games, the low attach rates, the small userbase, the minimal amounts of games, overhyped technology which truth be told is not actually made for gaming (the cell be was not made for gaming. it was designed by ibm and toshiba for video transcoding purposes but then later sony had the not so bright idea of using it for gaming. the rsx was made for games but came to the market already obsolete when compared to the 360's prototype X2800 gpu. the xdr ram in the ps3 was designed for medical imaging, not gaming.)

What you are describing is falling short of expectations, and in many cases unrealistic expectations. None of those arguments had any real merit.

The PS3 had games, its attach ratio was the same as the 360 in the same time frame, its outsold the 360 in 07 while its price was for the majority of the time 600 dollars. The comparison to 3DO was not as complicated as your making it. It was merely a comparison to a console that had poor quality games, very poor sales, and a high price. None of those are or were the case.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="Quofan"]

So let me get this straight - AdobeArtist is asking (quite reasonably) what arguments Cows have to back up statements made about the 360 dying, when it is clearly still alive. Then, at least two users who have PS3 exclusive games in their signatures/avatar (one of them also with a PS3 exclusive in their username), instead of counter arguing, have decided to accuse Adobe of being biased. This is despite the fact that Adobe has already acknowledged that 360 owners have made similar statements about the PS3, and his insistence this is not a console vs console thread.

"Now I'm notdisputing that PS3 is indeed picking up in the games department, I have never once bought into that "PS3 has no games" BS. I never said it's a bad system. And yeah the price is lower nowwhich makes it as accessible as 360 when it launched. This isn't to be a post about how much better 360 is than PS3 or vice versa."

Some things never change. System Wars, sadly, applies to this statement as well. The classic "he-made-a-logical-unbiased-post-must-call-him-a-fanboy-or-biased" response that many Cows, Lemmings and Sheep have been known to use from time to time is still a favoured strategy I see.

AdobeArtist

"But really, will just ONE game, no matter how great it is, bring about the end of a whole platform?"

That makes no sense whatsoever, just saying.

And what does my username or sig have to do with the argument?

OK, let me clarify that line. I have in no way tried to infer that PS3 has only one good game. I fully acknowledge other good titles like Heavenly Sword, Ratchet, Uncharted and Warhawk. Even the AAs are GOOD.

But then suddenly, PS3 gets a AAAAE, it's highest ranking exclusive game, and we get this ressurgence of the "NOW the 360 is teh doomed" posts. Like before when they predicted that Motorstorm and Uncharted would make people abandon their 360, thus sealing it's grim fate to join the gallows where 3DO, NeoGeo, and others went before in market failure.

I classified MGS4 as one game that stood above all the rest in PS3's library, in it's own league being a 10 if you will, but not that it was the only noteworthy game PS3 has. Sorry if there's a misunderstanding here. And again asked if that will realisticallycast the 360 into extinction - being that the sonyfans feel this particular game gives them cause to forsee 360's doom, as they had simply done before, just with other titles.

Ofcourse it is a wrong logic to claim a console is dead because of one amazing game but the 360 situation is worse than last year so far, sales wise and game wise.

[QUOTE="blitzkid1"] with fabele 2 coming out and about to destroy everything on the ps3 its not going anywere.AdobeArtist

*rubs temples*

y'know, applying this flawed tactic in the other direction, actually doesn't help the 360 cause. What you said about Fable 2 is no more valid than what cows have said about MGS4, GT5, FF13, and so on and so on. Maybe you think you're helping, but I really don't want that kind of help :roll:

Well, he said it, as did a few others, so I'm just gonna assume that the whole lemming faction is saying that now.

[QUOTE="cowgriller"][QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="lawlessx"]

"Like I said, I dont see why you are calling out Sony fanboys for dooming the 360 when the 360 fanboys have been playing the same game since the launch of the PS3. Its a fanboy game both groups have been playing, their are no victims just fanboys."

what? all i remember is cows calling the 360 "xbox 1.5" and calling it the next dreamcast and that it would not make past 2 years. :?

Javy03

I am sure fanboys have said that just like fanboys have said "PS3 sales flop, PS3 doomed, PS3 has no games, Sony fans dont buy games, PS3DO, etc..". Then 08 hits and people find out that while everyone was laughing at the PS3s NPDs sales data it actually outsold the 360 that year.

Both groups of fanboys have been dooming eachothers consoles, thats just what they do. Its never been one sided.

well there's actually truth to what the 360 fanboys were saying. let me explain:

PS3 sales flop: truth. why? do you actually remember the ps3 launch. do you remember seeing pictures of extremely short lines for the console and stacks of ps3's on retail floors? the french launch and the south korean launches had to be the biggest embarrassments for sony because not only did shoppers fail to show up, MS brought in a barge with the 360 logo. did you forget the cows photoshopping the image to show the barge sinking with RroD? let;s not forget sony execs claiming that if anyone found a ps3 in a store for more than 5 minutes, that he will personally give the finder $1200 for EACH unit. do you remember how many forumites/lemmings showed pictures of the ps3 in store shelves in stacks of more than 10? also the picture of stacks of ps3's made to spell out "WII".

PS3 doomed: the ps3 was doomed at the start. no one was buying the console and it had an anemic lineup of games. all of which flopped while all of the games cows were hyping for since e3 2005 were held back for years. only one has come out, mgs 4, but it is not an indicator to how well the others will do if in fact they do well and not flop like lair, haze, uncharted, r&c, heavenly sword, and motorstorm. not to mention the initial cost of the unit at $600 without taxes, games, and accessories.

Ps3 has no games: at first, all it had were flops and games that were not "purchase caliber". most of the games, even resistance. were pretty much rentals. the only reason resistance sold so well is because nothing else was available for the ps3.hell nothing worth owning came out until uncharted and r&c but those are flops according to system wars rules.

Sony fans don't buy games: at first this was true. the attatch rates of games to consoles was abysmal. what was it initially? less than one game for every one console. that has changed now but, correct me if i am wrong, the 360 still has a much higher attach rate. also, the sony execs decided to remove bc from the ps3 to "encourage owners to buy ps3 games" (there reasoning not mine).

PS3DO: huge similarities here. the high price, the massive failed games, the low attach rates, the small userbase, the minimal amounts of games, overhyped technology which truth be told is not actually made for gaming (the cell be was not made for gaming. it was designed by ibm and toshiba for video transcoding purposes but then later sony had the not so bright idea of using it for gaming. the rsx was made for games but came to the market already obsolete when compared to the 360's prototype X2800 gpu. the xdr ram in the ps3 was designed for medical imaging, not gaming.)

What you are describing is falling short of expectations, and in many cases unrealistic expectations. None of those arguments had any real merit.

The PS3 had games, its attach ratio was the same as the 360 in the same time frame, its outsold the 360 in 07 while its price was for the majority of the time 600 dollars. The comparison to 3DO was not as complicated as your making it. It was merely a comparison to a console that had poor quality games, very poor sales, and a high price. None of those are or were the case.

actually it's all true. the ps3 had a very bad launch and was unable to have a global launch like the 360 due to technical difficulties with the bd drive (shortage of blue laser diodes). the 360 had about a 3:1 attach ratio during launch due not only to its lower cost but also to the availability of games (games of different genre's no less). the ps3 only outsold the 360 in december of 2007, not the entire year. the ps3 was struggling to outsell the gba in most months because of its price and lack of blockbuster titles. let's not forget the quick trashing of the 20GB, the original 60GB model, the intro of the 80G, the dumping of the 80GB model a few months later and the intro of the 40GB model. the price always stayed between $500 to $600. the ps3 is now $400 but is missing one of its biggest selling points, backwards compatibility. this was hailed by all the sony execs and even held over ms's heads because the 360 used software bc which was not 100%. sony dropped not only the emotion engine from the ps3, but software compatibility as well (the one found in the 80GB). the only people that had unreal expectations about the ps3 were the ps3 fanboys after they saw all of the those pretty-looking cgi videos at e3 2005.

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

So the people who spend the most time in System Wars, and make the most threads, and post the most often are fanboys, and yet somehow you don't consider SW overrun with them?

You work for Sony, and I'm willing to bet you put out a far more eloquent sort of statement regarding their product, than, say, a teenager who got excited by a TV commercial. That's a given - but it doesn't change that there was, for lack of a better expression, a crapload of trash-talking "360 is dead / dying / a waste / doomed / screwed" talk over the past two years from the Sony camp - and yet, through it all, the 360 is somehow alive.

-

You're cleverly trying to turn this argument into a completely different one "that the PS3 will catch the 360" - that's not what this topic is about, I certainly have no intention of letting you hijack it, and while I appreciate the subtle move on your part, at the same time I find it an insult to my intelligence.

They may not be the company you keep - you may consider them riff-raff, but it was the claim of the majority, it certainly came up numerous time in the MGS4 wake, and it warrants addressing. The 360 is dying? Really?

the-very-best

I don't see how I can argue against the opinion. I mean, to me, it's pretty obvious that the hardcore fanboys who say things like "PC/PS3/360 will die..." etc are the minority. I mean, look at the first few pages right now, there isn't a major fanboyish thread to that degree. It's only when one comes along that it garners so much attention/replies that people start thinking, "oh, so they're all saying that now."

Also, it wasn't exactly "subtle". I made my point very clearly, as I always do. I don't see why I need to sugarcoat things. To me, what Adobe put in the OP is a generalisation directed at the entire cow faction, doesn't make sense to me when I see more arguments of what I said in my first post, although those are never adressed because they're not fanboyish. See, just goes to show fanboys get the most attention. Look at how famous ps_john has become, he didn't even make that many posts.

TVB, I DO realize not all sonyfans take the same stance, certainly not you, fuzzysquash, and many others in GUFU, Avant Game, and elsewhere in gamespot. My thread addresses that there has been a substantial number of threads over the past 2.5 years to this effect (not in regards to how this number represents any ratio to the fan base as a whole) to warrant having to finally challenge it, since 360 has supposedly been dying for half a console generation already.