What does Xbox One have to do to compete this year?

Why the did you list me in association with another user that I have nothing to do with?

What's your issue with me? He doesn't post or write like me, he doesn't own all the platforms, he doesn't have his PSN/XBL tag out. He hasn't gamed with SW users as I have across various machines (PC, XBL, Nintendo, and PSN). I never have confused or wrote your name in association with other known rabid lemming / fanboy accounts. The trolling was uncalled for...which also means my truth bomb posts must bother you to have tried to get personal like that in infuse my name. I thought you were all about Xbone this and that and not about getting personal...but here you are doing this trolling.

I see how it is. It's not an act for SW, you really are a hardcore Xbone fan that really dislikes any and all users that oppose your viewpoint. I wasn't aware I opposed your viewpoint, but I can see now I did with my name in there.

Can't you leave users alone and just talk about the post, avoiding ad hominems?

Wow. Owned. I have to admit, you got foxbat good with an excellent point! That will teach foxbat a lesson because you are right.

He is running around spouting off about a gaming event that doesn't happen until the half year mark! What about before then, lol!

No, PS4 has a giant sales lead by multiple millions of units which is peculiar considering both machines launched a week apart in November 2013 (I own both + PC, Wii U, & Handhelds).

There is also a huge gap in library for each machine even though, again, both machines came out at the same month and year. This is something foxbat would never tell anyone even though secretly he knows it to be true.

Finally, PS+ vs. Games with Gold? PS+ is $50 and PS4 got 27 games so far, GwG is $60 and Xbone only got 9 games so far! Foxbat won't tell users that when he's marketing in SW for Xbone, but it's the truth. I know because I downloaded every single GWG and PS+ game!

http://www.listwar.com/released-games/

It's not a wall of text, it's broken up and easy to read in paragraph form. It's more than the typical trolling posts of most SW users, yes. The bottom part is a quote of mine from earlier in this thread. My above post is only half as long if you don't want to read my earlier quote about ND's release history. Sorry that reading a bunch of words that are on topic to your point was something you don't enjoy, but I like to cover all the points before they are made avoiding long quote chains. My post answers any point you might bring up.

I must confess, you didn't refute much of my points above which forces me to repeat many of my points again. I will address your schedule comment, since that's new and interesting. Don't worry, I have brought up greater detail below as well regarding Xbox's marketing history and the extra time that Naughty Dog in fact do have for Uncharted 4.

Firstly, do you honestly believe Remedy's Quantum Break which doesn't have a firm release date and almost nil marketing for the mass public is releasing so soon prior to E3/mid-year? That's not how Xbox operates.

Secondly, I know all about Alan Wake, I was a PC Remedy fan back when Max Payne was brand new and only for PC. I remember reserving the original Max Payne for PC. I remember the late console ports. As I said, I had been tracking Wake since 2005's announcement so I'm well aware of the original idea and remade game. I was all over that game, HYPing Alan Wake to heaven and hell in SW for half a decade (Here is one of many nearly 5 year old links of me promoting ALAN WAKE). I thought the A.Wake was going to be an high scoring, metacritic darling Uncharted 2 level game! It was a good, but flawed game, but no where near what I and millions of others waited fore. I do get the Remedy situation there. Quantum Break also has had problems, but with the TV Xbox division which now doesn't exist. We don't know how that will impact Quantum's development, but it's a variable. I understand what you are saying: if QB releases early and gets delayed, it still could end up a 2015 title. Uncharted 4 has no "slack" for a delay as it's due at the end of the year. However, Naughty Dog got an entire extra year with the title, so there is your "slack". Uncharted 4 already had an extra year of development as technically ND's next game should have released at the one year mark of the new machine as they did on PS2 and PS3 (UC4 due Holiday 2014) and instead ND have had an entire extra year for polish since UC4 is due Holiday 2015. ND has an extra year on a machine that's also VERY easy to work with (PS2 and PS3 were notoriously hard to develop on and even still, ND were on time), and ND has a huge, huge timely history that shouldn't be ignored with an output of four retail games per generation.

Despite Remedy's "advantage" on an early release even though they have no firm release at all, they are the ones most likely to delay to 2016 and beyond. Naughty Dog last gen pumped out 4 full retail games last gen while Remedy released just one full retail game last gen (yes, they both released DLC). If we are completely ignoring history, I would understand your point, but my point is the historical output of these studios because it sheds a huge light on both studios and their production output.

Finally, it should also be pointed out that Xbox E3's are set up to highlight games for the end of the year. They use it to market their lineup of Xmas games. It seems crucial to use such an event for Quantum Break which means no early release after all if we look at every Xbox E3 event. I'm well aware of how Xbox handles their yearly releases.

This is all it needs:

@SolidTy: I know what you say is true about the number of games on each console. That cannot be disputed.

Here's the thing I don't understand. You say you don't like cross-gen games.. yet you support that list. Why is that?

That list is full of Indy games on multiple systems.. with the production values of ps1 era games. I can't support that list.. truly. How can you with your stance on cross gen games?

That list is cluttered with mediocrity of PS2- PS1 era 1990 gaming style similarities. Some games can be compared to 1980 arcade games in complexity and design.

I know the list can't be disputed by numbers. That's facts. I do know one thing... over half those games fit your criteria of what you do NOT want in Gen 8..

There's more filler on that list than a beanbag. Games I would never play. Games I would not lose sleep over. Over half of them I would never waste my time on.

My question to you is. How do you truly feel about that list with cross-gen games and mediocre to good AAA first party games. Padded with games that have 1980's innovation.

The list cannot be disputed, I want to make that clear. I don't want to sound condescending either. Just a question for you.

EDIT: This goes for both consoles lists. I don't want to look as if I'm pointing fingers or choosing sides.

@b4x said:

@SolidTy:

Look at the retail number circled as well (88 to 82). Those are not indie games, they are full retail games. If we wanted to ignore the indie game equation, the second set of circled numbers below also show a divide between the two machines at just the retail level.

Besides, this domination of support is just the beginning of what looks to be a trend for the generation. We've seen this before in every other generation, a main machine takes off and gets a crap ton of games both good and bad. The great, original games (that don't seem to exist yet imo) are the ones that excite me the most. I have to wait for those of course, but usually around the one year anniversary is when I feel fulfilled. This didn't happen yet for these two machines, but I expect 2015 will turn me around.

That said, I don't like Cross gen games that have no appeal because I could play those games on my PS360 machines. What's the point of buying new hardware to play games I have on my old hardware? That's an issue with cross gen games, besides games not pushing the hardware. When I'm paying $60 for a game, I don't want it to be CROSS GEN.

However, brand new CHEAP games that happen to be indie? I don't have a problem with because they are new experiences and they aren't charging me $60 to play a cross gen game, and many times are brand new games not available on PS360.

So, in essence, The Price of Admission is definitely a huge variable to consider.

Does that answer your question? I appreciate your tone and I tried to give a very comprehensive and fair answer.

There is a big difference in price (I pay more aka $60 full retail, I want the best and no substitutions or cross gen garbage; I pay A LOT less, I am willing to compromise for some little indie fun experience). Furthermore, new generation experiences both at retail and indie that ARE NOT available on my older hardware is something else I desire (not games like COD, Destiny, HD ports, etc). Believe it or not, some indie games are brand new indie games not on PS360. Those games are new experiences I desire that cannot be found on my old hardware.

If you pay top dollar for a product, you want the best product they can release. Not some Activision, EA, Ubisoft cross generation cash in rehash for the same $60. As we know, these companies might charge the same price for their full retail games, but some games are worth far more than others.

I can't say I've paid top dollar for an indie game, ever. The indie games are cheap and my expectations are lowered accordingly. That said, some indie games although not taking advantage of our PCs/Xbones/PS4s/Wii Us can still be very, very good games and for cheap. Indies are the afternoon snacks between the full retail meals...although in some cases when the full retail games are so disappointing (Destiny, WatchDogs, Madden, COD, NHL 15, Thief, etc), the indie games may end up saving part of the year (Transistor, Shovel Knight, Octodad, OlliOlli, The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth, Rogue Legacy, FTL, etc). Yes, some indie games from previous years have helped out in their respective years.

They should build a time machine and use it to go back and redesign X1's hardware. Anything short of that and it's second place for X1.

@SolidTy: I'm manticore, but Sony ftw!

That's cool and all. The difference with various users claiming their status and myself is that I have shown the pictures and game IDs, even demonstrating that not only do I own a platform, but that I gamed on it achieving high achievement/trophy scores. I've played with gamers of all factions here in my longtime with SW.

As far as Sony ftw, they have more to do on the PS4 for me imo, but that said, their PS+ output has been good (27 free PS+ games so far) as noted above which got me turning on the PS4 more than I would have, especially considering my equally old Xbone only got 9 free GwG games in that same time frame.

It's easy to compare when you own both and actively use them. I'm not saying you don't, but I'm just posting my stance for lurkers that wonder.

@SolidTy: most people don't want to associate with people from here beyond the forums lol

Yeah, that is probably true...but when we had unions in full force, it helps get a lot of gaming nights going. It also cut down on the animosity on display here. It's a shame what happened with the GS redesign.

They've already shown what they have to do: Make the price cut permanent and bundle a game or three with every console. Will they? We'll see.

I agree 100%

Unions did help people at least get to know each other better and even build up the ability to understand that there are actual people on the other end of the web. People tended to be a bit more rational.

This is a horrible, depressing place now.

Now it's teh GPGPU in the PS4 that makes it teh supacharged the cows tell us. Nothing will be able to keep up with it lol.

The best bit about the CELL was when someone here was getting funny feelings in their pants about it here and started likening it to Skynet and Neural Net processors. I kid you not.

Looking at what these consoles are competing with really is like the special Olympics. Like 3 or so proper exclusives each and the rest are multiplats and indies.

This gen really is the bottom of the barrel.

Well said. :'(

@SolidTy said:

@b4x said:

@SolidTy:

Look at the retail number circled as well (88 to 82). Those are not indie games, they are full retail games. If we wanted to ignore the indie game equation, the second set of circled numbers below also show a divide between the two machines at just the retail level.

Besides, this domination of support is just the beginning of what looks to be a trend for the generation. We've seen this before in every other generation, a main machine takes off and gets a crap ton of games both good and bad. The great, original games (that don't seem to exist yet imo) are the ones that excite me the most. I have to wait for those of course, but usually around the one year anniversary is when I feel fulfilled. This didn't happen yet for these two machines, but I expect 2015 will turn me around.

That said, I don't like Cross gen games that have no appeal because I could play those games on my PS360 machines. What's the point of buying new hardware to play games I have on my old hardware? That's an issue with cross gen games, besides games not pushing the hardware. When I'm paying $60 for a game, I don't want it to be CROSS GEN.

However, brand new CHEAP games that happen to be indie? I don't have a problem with because they are new experiences and they aren't charging me $60 to play a cross gen game, and many times are brand new games not available on PS360.

So, in essence, The Price of Admission is definitely a huge variable to consider.

Does that answer your question? I appreciate your tone and I tried to give a very comprehensive and fair answer.

There is a big difference in price (I pay more aka $60 full retail, I want the best and no substitutions or cross gen garbage; I pay A LOT less, I am willing to compromise for some little indie fun experience). Furthermore, new generation experiences both at retail and indie that ARE NOT available on my older hardware is something else I desire (not games like COD, Destiny, HD ports, etc). Believe it or not, some indie games are brand new indie games not on PS360. Those games are new experiences I desire that cannot be found on my old hardware.

If you pay top dollar for a product, you want the best product they can release. Not some Activision, EA, Ubisoft cross generation cash in rehash for the same $60. As we know, these companies might charge the same price for their full retail games, but some games are worth far more than others.

I can't say I've paid top dollar for an indie game, ever. The indie games are cheap and my expectations are lowered accordingly. That said, some indie games although not taking advantage of our PCs/Xbones/PS4s/Wii Us can still be very, very good games and for cheap. Indies are the afternoon snacks between the full retail meals...although in some cases when the full retail games are so disappointing (Destiny, WatchDogs, Madden, COD, NHL 15, Thief, etc), the indie games may end up saving part of the year (Transistor, Shovel Knight, Octodad, OlliOlli, The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth, Rogue Legacy, FTL, etc). Yes, some indie games from previous years have helped out in their respective years.

Good answer as expected. I give Indy games credit too. They're hit and miss just like AAA titles. There are gems to be had. The problem I have is the sheer numbers of bad ones.

The lists on these Indy games for this gen consoles are almost 90% miss. Inflating lists with complete garbage like the new steam shit program. What do you think about this trend? Do you want a marketplace cluttered with complete garbage to cipher through to find that one gem?

It's nice to have a good selection of games.. There comes a point where you have to have standards as the platform holder. I would hope.

90% of those games so far on both lists could disappear... I wouldn't know they even existed. Same with IOS and Android games.

God bless the developers making them. but......

No dude the PS4 was modify for compute is not supercharged shit is just some adjustments that Sony did to take better advantage of compute which MS didn't plain and simple in that regard sony has a clear lead and Ubisoft own chart prove that when compute is use the PS4 almost double the xbox one 1600 vs 830 compare that with with the CPU difference between the PS4 and xbox one which was minimal at worst.

Cell served its purpose and helped a console with a weaker GPU actually beat one with a stronger more advance GPU,when all is say and done it really did deliver.

The problem is that since launch Indies have been rating high,in fact Resogun was higher rated than any PS4 and xbox one exclusive that say allot,you have games like Towerfall,which is higher rated than Titanfall,The biding of Issac,Velocity 2X those are games with scores of 86 and 87 those score are great specially coming from an indie game.

Sure allot of them suck but how is that different from retail games.? some are good and many suck badly.

Do you think ACU did deserve even a 73 score it has on meta.? The game was ridden with bugs and performance issues,and what the developers seek to fix first was even more embarrassing micro transaction instead of fixing the broken game.

Halo 5 excites me more than anything the ps4 has coming.

Uh huh, let's wait till we see about teh GPGPU.

Cell was more trouble than it was worth. It just slowed development.

It seems all of these seem to compensate for bad designs. PS3's CELL compensating for a shit GPU and PS4s GPGPU compensating for a shit CPU.

@SolidGame_basic:

How can you be the manticore when you don't own a Gaming PC?

www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/are-you-a-member-of-the-master-race-do-you-want-to-31744230/

" I wouldn't mind getting a gaming PC, but

honestly, the only real PC games I like are games

like Starcraft 2 and Divinity. Everything else I

wouldn't care that much about having the best

specs for. Sony pretty much takes care of most

my needs."

@Cloud_imperium: you don't need a gaming rig to play PC games. Everyone has a computer don't they?

You don't have to wait this chart is not made up it comes from Ubisoft own findings on compute and even Digital Foundry stress its results,GpGPU is something that hasn't catch on yet and the PS4 is modify for it more than the xbox one.

In fact the changes sony did to GCN on the PS4 8 Aces 64 commands volatil bit are inside AMD new R290 GPU when the 7970 doesn't have those features,and yes it was sony who introduce the hardware change and AMD apply it to its latest GPU,compute wise the R290 is much better than the 7970 when the R290 is basically a refresh.

Yes it was trouble but it was something rather new and bringing a new era on CPU aiding GPU in some task,Cell was basically an early day APU a hybrid.

Look at it this way what does the xbox one has to compensate for its also weak CPU.? Since compute on xbox one is way lower and not as effective as it was show by UBI.

But if you dont own a gaming rig you are very limited on what games you can play.

Yeah Halo 5 excites me as well, especially after playing the multiplayer beta. Still, I'm excited about Uncharted 2, Quantum Break, Zelda, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Bloodborn, Tomb Raider, Splatoon and No Man's Sky. This is why I don't stick with only one brand.

LMAO @ all the trolling cows in this thread. It's going to be a great year.

@SolidGame_basic: So you're talking about sales, not platform quality.

In that case, you realize that besides Uncharted 4, none of the ps4's eclusives are big sellers right?

I mean Bloodborne, for example, will be awesome (wish it would come to pc myself), but it'll probably only sell 1 million, and barely move units. It's niche games (well, almost every AAA game is), but this one even more.

What else? The Order, Until Dawn, RIME, The Tomorrow's Children, Ratchet and Clank, No Man's Sky and Alienanation? And japanese games?

I mean, not a bad list of games, but i don't seem that many units getting moved because of them. Not much better for xbone either btw

@cainetao11: Well I think Xbox have lost Fable, I mean that top down game just isn't what Fable was all about, just don't see it being amazing, Fable was always about doing what you wanted in a huge world and being your own person, now they've given us 4 classes and be the bad guy through a top down, style game, seems odd.

QB I just don't see it happening this year, I think we would of had an announcement or something by now to get us hyped but we've had nothing as of yet, maybe Alan Wake was there exception with how late it was, but they take there time with there games so I honestly think 2016 is where it will be

Word, zero animosity when the unions were around. Can't think of one example : >

Quantum Break - Exclusive

Halo 5 - Exclusive (beta is awesome)

Scalebound - Exclusive

Crackdown - Exclusive

Forza - Exclusive

Phantom Dust - Exclusive

And I'm sure many more to come after E3 comes to pass. What does Sony have? Bloodborne and Uncharted 4? I mean, really, talk about hypocritical. I own all the Consoles but really, just reaching. And none of these are on PC. Not that I care for PC one way or another, all it's exclusives end up on Console anyway and the exclusives there aren't worthwhile, but these are not on PC. Anything else is just more begging for console ports.

@tormentos said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Uh huh, let's wait till we see about teh GPGPU.

Cell was more trouble than it was worth. It just slowed development.

It seems all of these seem to compensate for bad designs. PS3's CELL compensating for a shit GPU and PS4s GPGPU compensating for a shit CPU.

You don't have to wait this chart is not made up it comes from Ubisoft own findings on compute and even Digital Foundry stress its results,GpGPU is something that hasn't catch on yet and the PS4 is modify for it more than the xbox one.

In fact the changes sony did to GCN on the PS4 8 Aces 64 commands volatil bit are inside AMD new R290 GPU when the 7970 doesn't have those features,and yes it was sony who introduce the hardware change and AMD apply it to its latest GPU,compute wise the R290 is much better than the 7970 when the R290 is basically a refresh.

Yes it was trouble but it was something rather new and bringing a new era on CPU aiding GPU in some task,Cell was basically an early day APU a hybrid.

Look at it this way what does the xbox one has to compensate for its also weak CPU.? Since compute on xbox one is way lower and not as effective as it was show by UBI.

Graph looks like a fantastic game.

Digital exclusives: Ps4 124 vs Xboner 58

Wow... "bu bu but Ps4 has no games !!!"

@tormentos said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Uh huh, let's wait till we see about teh GPGPU.

Cell was more trouble than it was worth. It just slowed development.

It seems all of these seem to compensate for bad designs. PS3's CELL compensating for a shit GPU and PS4s GPGPU compensating for a shit CPU.

You don't have to wait this chart is not made up it comes from Ubisoft own findings on compute and even Digital Foundry stress its results,GpGPU is something that hasn't catch on yet and the PS4 is modify for it more than the xbox one.

In fact the changes sony did to GCN on the PS4 8 Aces 64 commands volatil bit are inside AMD new R290 GPU when the 7970 doesn't have those features,and yes it was sony who introduce the hardware change and AMD apply it to its latest GPU,compute wise the R290 is much better than the 7970 when the R290 is basically a refresh.

Yes it was trouble but it was something rather new and bringing a new era on CPU aiding GPU in some task,Cell was basically an early day APU a hybrid.

Look at it this way what does the xbox one has to compensate for its also weak CPU.? Since compute on xbox one is way lower and not as effective as it was show by UBI.

I have a PS4 and I admit that even games that are 720p on X1 and 1080p on ps4 still look better on X1. They have some kind of color filter which makes the colors more vibrant and pop more. PS4 games look like they have a vaseline layer on them, they all look so cloudy.

I good chuckle out of that. I will say that I said cut down on the animosity, but it certainly didn't squash it, lol.

That's not accurate at all. I have done countless tests across both my Xbone and PS4. It's clear you need to change your TV settings and possibly your console.

Calibrating HDTVs is something professionals do for a living. Then there is the question of the kind of HDTV you have which I can't help you online. The simple answer is adjust your TV set. The Xbone does actually suffer from crushed blacks which may have confused you. "Brighter/more vibrant colors" is the crushed blacks/contrast issue on the Xbone that can be replicated by adjusting the contrast or sharpness on your display. Over-sharpening and crushed blacks are a bad thing for visual quality. Crushed blacks are a problem but make colors pop. You can crush blacks on PS4, but I wouldn't recommend it. Crushed blacks ruin many Blu-Ray and DVDs, you want to avoid it. Basically Crushed Blacks is when the lower black levels (and darker shades of grey) all appear to be completely black, losing shadow detail. It's the same reason why when you travel to any electronics store and notice that all the TVs are set to max brightness/contrast/max dynamic on the shelf, it's basically because it's 'eye catching' and sells TVs.

Here's a picture on crushed blacks. You can see the image with crushed blacks looks "vibrant" but at crushing all the dark greys and light blacks. Crushing blacks is essentially a loss of detail in the darker color ranges. Where you should see gradations of color you only see a flat black surface. You don't want that.

Also, every game is different and not indicative of the entire machines, so one example here or there would be anecdotal evidence.

Here's a couple of vids. This video is 2 minutes and gives you an idea.

THIS IS A GOOD 10 MINUTE VIDEO BELOW because it's about Xbone and adjusting Crushed Blacks. You can't just plug these things in without adjusting your TV settings and console settings.

You will lose the artificial "vibrant colors" that are killing greys and light blacks, but that's good. You are losing way too man details. Here's a vid on why and how to fix it:

No it just show how fantastic the gap is between the PS4 and xbox one when compute is taken into account...

You may be right with QB.

As for Fable, I don't get into that stuff about "*blank game* is supposed to be about this". I don't create games, so I don't get to decide what they are about. I decide to buy or not.

@SolidTy: I only ever talked to you two times. I don't have a problem with you. The trolling was directed to SolidGameBasic. Me and him trade blows and it is in fun. Your names are kinda close so I figured he would see that. Me and him are friends on XBL and he is a troll on there too.

I apologize if you thought I was attacking you directly but I wasn't.

Are you really that dense? The topic was ALL of 2015. Sony showed there cards over a year ago and the last half of 2014 was barren. 2015 can't be discussed fully until after E3. You better learn that.

Okay, fair enough. I am glad everything is kosher. :)

@deadline-zero0: you gotta be kidding me if you think Bloodborne will only sell a million. Dark souls 2 was pretty successful. There's a reason why Sony hired From Software. It's a big exclusive.

@SolidTy said:

@mikehockbourns said:

@tormentos said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Uh huh, let's wait till we see about teh GPGPU.

Cell was more trouble than it was worth. It just slowed development.

It seems all of these seem to compensate for bad designs. PS3's CELL compensating for a shit GPU and PS4s GPGPU compensating for a shit CPU.

You don't have to wait this chart is not made up it comes from Ubisoft own findings on compute and even Digital Foundry stress its results,GpGPU is something that hasn't catch on yet and the PS4 is modify for it more than the xbox one.

In fact the changes sony did to GCN on the PS4 8 Aces 64 commands volatil bit are inside AMD new R290 GPU when the 7970 doesn't have those features,and yes it was sony who introduce the hardware change and AMD apply it to its latest GPU,compute wise the R290 is much better than the 7970 when the R290 is basically a refresh.

Yes it was trouble but it was something rather new and bringing a new era on CPU aiding GPU in some task,Cell was basically an early day APU a hybrid.

Look at it this way what does the xbox one has to compensate for its also weak CPU.? Since compute on xbox one is way lower and not as effective as it was show by UBI.

I have a PS4 and I admit that even games that are 720p on X1 and 1080p on ps4 still look better on X1. They have some kind of color filter which makes the colors more vibrant and pop more. PS4 games look like they have a vaseline layer on them, they all look so cloudy.

That's not accurate at all. I have done countless tests across both my Xbone and PS4. It's clear you need to change your TV settings and possibly your console.

Calibrating HDTVs is something professionals do for a living. Then there is the question of the kind of HDTV you have which I can't help you online. The simple answer is adjust your TV set. The Xbone does actually suffer from crushed blacks which may have confused you. "Brighter/more vibrant colors" is the crushed blacks/contrast issue on the Xbone that can be replicated by adjusting the contrast or sharpness on your display. Over-sharpening and crushed blacks are a bad thing for visual quality. Crushed blacks are a problem but make colors pop. You can crush blacks on PS4, but I wouldn't recommend it. Crushed blacks ruin many Blu-Ray and DVDs, you want to avoid it. Basically Crushed Blacks is when the lower black levels (and darker shades of grey) all appear to be completely black, losing shadow detail. It's the same reason why when you travel to any electronics store and notice that all the TVs are set to max brightness/contrast/max dynamic on the shelf, it's basically because it's 'eye catching' and sells TVs.

Here's a picture on crushed blacks. You can see the image with crushed blacks looks "vibrant" but at crushing all the dark greys and light blacks. Crushing blacks is essentially a loss of detail in the darker color ranges. Where you should see gradations of color you only see a flat black surface. You don't want that.

Also, every game is different and not indicative of the entire machines, so one example here or there would be anecdotal evidence.

Here's a couple of vids. This video is 2 minutes and gives you an idea.

Loading Video...

THIS IS A GOOD 10 MINUTE VIDEO BELOW because it's about Xbone and adjusting Crushed Blacks. You can't just plug these things in without adjusting your TV settings and console settings.

You will lose the artificial "vibrant colors" that are killing greys and light blacks, but that's good. You are losing way too man details. Here's a vid on why and how to fix it:

Loading Video...

I see you put a lot of effort in your post and I thank you for that, fact is....when I look at MANY side by side comparisons, yes the ps4 might have more little details like in the case of GTA5, but the colors and framerate on that particular game is better on X1. Other games are similar in my experience.

Personally there's only Halo and maybe QB depending on how that turns out (and if it even makes 2015).

Fable looks thoroughly mediocre, Tomb Raider is timed and on 360 anyway. Crackdown and Scalebound will likely be 2016.

Anyway for me i'll get Halo despite that i don't think i'll get into the MP much after the beta and i'll look at QB nearer the time as i'm 50/50 on it given the E3 trailer looked poor but the concept excites me. Ori and the Blind Forest will likely get a buy from me though.

I'll see what happens with Phantom Dust but given all there is is a CG trailer it's hard to be hyped at all.

For announcements there's very little, Gears? Very little chance. Forza? After how 5 turned out yearly would be horrific.

I've seen Forza, an announcement for Gears and games that aren't even 2015 like Crackdown and Scalebound stated in this thread. I think that speaks for itself and smacks of desperation. It's also odd how so many PS4 titles that we've only had trailers for are ignored by lems whilst they list Phantom Dust.

For PS4 i've got:

-Bloodborne, UC4 and Street Fighter 5 to pre-order.

-A few i'll probably pick up like Until Dawn, No Man's Sky, Grim Fandango, Magicka 2, H-Hour and maybe play some Planetside 2.

-I'll see how the Order does, might be worth a play through and trade in, i want more gameplay from Everybody's Gone to the Rapture but that looks more promising and maybe Tearaway.

-A few of indies i'll enjoy in Rime, ABZU and The Witness.

-I'll keep an eye out for games we don't know much about like Shadow of the Beast, Hellblade, Wild, Without Memory, Let it Die, The Tomorrow Children,

-Then there's the possibility of GT7 or a God of War game making 2015.

That's not even including the stuff i've got no interest in like the Ratchet and Clank remake, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Deep Down, The Forrest, Persona 5 or whatever might crop up like Towerfall Ascension did for me last year.

Thinking about it now t's going to be struggle to find the money for all of that given i've not even thought about multiplats :S

@mikehockbourns said:

@SolidTy said:

@mikehockbourns said:

I have a PS4 and I admit that even games that are 720p on X1 and 1080p on ps4 still look better on X1. They have some kind of color filter which makes the colors more vibrant and pop more. PS4 games look like they have a vaseline layer on them, they all look so cloudy.

---

That's not accurate at all. I have done countless tests across both my Xbone and PS4. It's clear you need to change your TV settings and possibly your console.

Calibrating HDTVs is something professionals do for a living. Then there is the question of the kind of HDTV you have which I can't help you online. The simple answer is adjust your TV set. The Xbone does actually suffer from crushed blacks which may have confused you. "Brighter/more vibrant colors" is the crushed blacks/contrast issue on the Xbone that can be replicated by adjusting the contrast or sharpness on your display. Over-sharpening and crushed blacks are a bad thing for visual quality. Crushed blacks are a problem but make colors pop. You can crush blacks on PS4, but I wouldn't recommend it. Crushed blacks ruin many Blu-Ray and DVDs, you want to avoid it. Basically Crushed Blacks is when the lower black levels (and darker shades of grey) all appear to be completely black, losing shadow detail. It's the same reason why when you travel to any electronics store and notice that all the TVs are set to max brightness/contrast/max dynamic on the shelf, it's basically because it's 'eye catching' and sells TVs.

Here's a picture on crushed blacks. You can see the image with crushed blacks looks "vibrant" but at crushing all the dark greys and light blacks. Crushing blacks is essentially a loss of detail in the darker color ranges. Where you should see gradations of color you only see a flat black surface. You don't want that.

Also, every game is different and not indicative of the entire machines, so one example here or there would be anecdotal evidence.

Here's a couple of vids. This video is 2 minutes and gives you an idea.

Loading Video...

THIS IS A GOOD 10 MINUTE VIDEO BELOW because it's about Xbone and adjusting Crushed Blacks. You can't just plug these things in without adjusting your TV settings and console settings.

You will lose the artificial "vibrant colors" that are killing greys and light blacks, but that's good. You are losing way too man details. Here's a vid on why and how to fix it:

Loading Video...

I see you put a lot of effort in your post and I thank you for that, fact is....when I look at MANY side by side comparisons, yes the ps4 might have more little details like in the case of GTA5, but the colors and framerate on that particular game is better on X1. Other games are similar in my experience.

You are welcome, but I still a bit more to say on the matter reading the rest of your post.

Well, you didn't really refute anything and it seems like you skipped over the color information I took the time to compile for you. That's fine, but your experience is flawed and not accurate. A 2nd grader might have an experience where the Gamecube has better graphics than the Wii U. Does that mean the 2nd grader can't be refuted? That was my point. I covered the colors above in great detail. Your PS4, HDTV, and previous Xbone needs AV adjustments. It doesn't seem like you care or want to understand what the AV problem with crushed blacks (which make colors pop), something the Xbone has issues with unless you adjust the Xbone and HDTV settings. You can have the same crushed blacks and vibrant colors on your PS4 with changes in the settings, but it's not good as you will lose the same details on PS4 that you lose on an Xbone. M$ has the Xbone cranked to crush blacks for whatever reason (probably for the general masses who don't know how to adjust their monitors/HDTVs and make statements like you did about colors), but it's not good at all. It ruins DVDs, Blu-Rays, streaming, and gaming. There is many, many, many threads and videos on Xbone crushed blacks and how to fix it. It's a very well known problem.

Regarding framerate or whatever, I was never talking about framerate and neither were you. My entire post is about colors and so was yours. That's a whole different discussion. Bottomline: Framerate varies from game to game. Moving back to colors:

@mikehockbourns said:

I have a PS4 and I admit that even games that are 720p on X1 and 1080p on ps4 still look better on X1. They have some kind of color filter which makes the colors more vibrant and pop more. PS4 games look like they have a vaseline layer on them, they all look so cloudy.

What you posted here is Colors are an easy adjustment ONCE you realize the issue and WANT TO CHANGE IT. By default hooking an Xbone to a HDTV, you probably saw crashed blacks and with your lack of understanding what you were losing, you noticed vibrant colors. You posted the EXACT SYMPTOMS of an ill-adjusted Xbone crushing blacks. Where others users would seek a fix, you attributed the colors popping as an Xbone good quality, but it's not, and furthermore you can do the same thing on your DVD player, PS4, PS2, PS3, PC, Wii U, and old systems. This happens to a lot new Xbone buyers hooking their console up without understanding AV issues, but once you put in an OLD MOVIE that YOU ALREADY saw before, it's usually then the Crushed Black problem is known. You see all the details are too dark and the colors are too bright.

I said above: "Brighter/more vibrant colors" is the crushed blacks/contrast issue on the Xbone that can be replicated by adjusting the contrast or sharpness on your display. Over-sharpening and crushed blacks are a bad thing for visual quality. Crushed blacks are a problem but make colors pop. You can crush blacks on PS4, but I wouldn't recommend it.

GTA5 was a new game. You noticed colors and didn't think twice about how GTA5 should look. Adjusting the colors is all in the information I provided as a HUGE AV buff. I have very expensive HDTVs and AVRs in my home and I set these things up for friends as well.

You mentioned side by side comparisons, but without knowing the author of these comparisons setups, for all I know these comparisons YOU SAW and chose to cite are poor and on default crushed blacks/vibrant color settings. They mean nothing. Of course, I don't have to rely on such comparisons since I can literally do them at my house in real time.

People want to crush their blacks or play games on a black and white TV, I have NO ISSUES with that. My issue is the misinformation of stating the PS4 games have a color problem when that's a user problem on your end and not the PS4. I don't expect everyone to be an AV wizard. I also am a huge sound enthusiast with multiple surround sounds in various rooms. Go and Crush the PS4 blacks and pop your colors, it's easy. Hook up an old CRT tube and play on that, whatever you want. Have fun. Just don't come to the forums and confuse the issue with something you haven't researched at all. Don't blame the PS4 for being black and white on a B&W TV. The colors you noticed on Xbone were because the Xbone was crushing blacks in GTA5 and other games and you didn't notice the problem. M$ sets this up, I think to confuse laymen. Whatever the issue is, it's a problem and it's easily fixed. I own all the machines and spent HOURS calibrating them in various rooms in my home on various HDTVs.

Have a good one.

@SolidTy said:

@mikehockbourns said:

@SolidTy said:

@mikehockbourns said:

I have a PS4 and I admit that even games that are 720p on X1 and 1080p on ps4 still look better on X1. They have some kind of color filter which makes the colors more vibrant and pop more. PS4 games look like they have a vaseline layer on them, they all look so cloudy.

---

That's not accurate at all. I have done countless tests across both my Xbone and PS4. It's clear you need to change your TV settings and possibly your console.

Calibrating HDTVs is something professionals do for a living. Then there is the question of the kind of HDTV you have which I can't help you online. The simple answer is adjust your TV set. The Xbone does actually suffer from crushed blacks which may have confused you. "Brighter/more vibrant colors" is the crushed blacks/contrast issue on the Xbone that can be replicated by adjusting the contrast or sharpness on your display. Over-sharpening and crushed blacks are a bad thing for visual quality. Crushed blacks are a problem but make colors pop. You can crush blacks on PS4, but I wouldn't recommend it. Crushed blacks ruin many Blu-Ray and DVDs, you want to avoid it. Basically Crushed Blacks is when the lower black levels (and darker shades of grey) all appear to be completely black, losing shadow detail. It's the same reason why when you travel to any electronics store and notice that all the TVs are set to max brightness/contrast/max dynamic on the shelf, it's basically because it's 'eye catching' and sells TVs.

Here's a picture on crushed blacks. You can see the image with crushed blacks looks "vibrant" but at crushing all the dark greys and light blacks. Crushing blacks is essentially a loss of detail in the darker color ranges. Where you should see gradations of color you only see a flat black surface. You don't want that.

Also, every game is different and not indicative of the entire machines, so one example here or there would be anecdotal evidence.

Here's a couple of vids. This video is 2 minutes and gives you an idea.

Loading Video...

THIS IS A GOOD 10 MINUTE VIDEO BELOW because it's about Xbone and adjusting Crushed Blacks. You can't just plug these things in without adjusting your TV settings and console settings.

You will lose the artificial "vibrant colors" that are killing greys and light blacks, but that's good. You are losing way too man details. Here's a vid on why and how to fix it:

Loading Video...

I see you put a lot of effort in your post and I thank you for that, fact is....when I look at MANY side by side comparisons, yes the ps4 might have more little details like in the case of GTA5, but the colors and framerate on that particular game is better on X1. Other games are similar in my experience.

You are welcome, but I still a bit more to say on the matter reading the rest of your post.

Well, you didn't really refute anything and it seems like you skipped over the color information I took the time to compile for you. That's fine, but your experience is flawed and not accurate. A 2nd grader might have an experience where the Gamecube has better graphics than the Wii U. Does that mean the 2nd grader can't be refuted? That was my point. I covered the colors above in great detail. Your PS4, HDTV, and previous Xbone needs AV adjustments. It doesn't seem like you care or want to understand what the AV problem with crushed blacks (which make colors pop), something the Xbone has issues with unless you adjust the Xbone and HDTV settings. You can have the same crushed blacks and vibrant colors on your PS4 with changes in the settings, but it's not good as you will lose the same details on PS4 that you lose on an Xbone. M$ has the Xbone cranked to crush blacks for whatever reason (probably for the general masses who don't know how to adjust their monitors/HDTVs and make statements like you did about colors), but it's not good at all. It ruins DVDs, Blu-Rays, streaming, and gaming. There is many, many, many threads and videos on Xbone crushed blacks and how to fix it. It's a very well known problem.

Regarding framerate or whatever, I was never talking about framerate and neither were you. My entire post is about colors and so was yours. That's a whole different discussion. Bottomline: Framerate varies from game to game. Moving back to colors:

@mikehockbourns said:

I have a PS4 and I admit that even games that are 720p on X1 and 1080p on ps4 still look better on X1. They have some kind of color filter which makes the colors more vibrant and pop more. PS4 games look like they have a vaseline layer on them, they all look so cloudy.

What you posted here is Colors are an easy adjustment ONCE you realize the issue and WANT TO CHANGE IT. By default hooking an Xbone to a HDTV, you probably saw crashed blacks and with your lack of understanding what you were losing, you noticed vibrant colors. You posted the EXACT SYMPTOMS of an ill-adjusted Xbone crushing blacks. Where others users would seek a fix, you attributed the colors popping as an Xbone good quality, but it's not, and furthermore you can do the same thing on your DVD player, PS4, PS2, PS3, PC, Wii U, and old systems. This happens to a lot new Xbone buyers hooking their console up without understanding AV issues, but once you put in an OLD MOVIE that YOU ALREADY saw before, it's usually then the Crushed Black problem is known. You see all the details are too dark and the colors are too bright.

I said above: "Brighter/more vibrant colors" is the crushed blacks/contrast issue on the Xbone that can be replicated by adjusting the contrast or sharpness on your display. Over-sharpening and crushed blacks are a bad thing for visual quality. Crushed blacks are a problem but make colors pop. You can crush blacks on PS4, but I wouldn't recommend it.

GTA5 was a new game. You noticed colors and didn't think twice about how GTA5 should look. Adjusting the colors is all in the information I provided as a HUGE AV buff. I have very expensive HDTVs and AVRs in my home and I set these things up for friends as well.

You mentioned side by side comparisons, but without knowing the author of these comparisons setups, for all I know these comparisons YOU SAW and chose to cite are poor and on default crushed blacks/vibrant color settings. They mean nothing. Of course, I don't have to rely on such comparisons since I can literally do them at my house in real time.

People want to crush their blacks or play games on a black and white TV, I have NO ISSUES with that. My issue is the misinformation of stating the PS4 games have a color problem when that's a user problem on your end and not the PS4. I don't expect everyone to be an AV wizard. I also am a huge sound enthusiast with multiple surround sounds in various rooms. Go and Crush the PS4 blacks and pop your colors, it's easy. Hook up an old CRT tube and play on that, whatever you want. Have fun. Just don't come to the forums and confuse the issue with something you haven't researched at all. Don't blame the PS4 for being black and white on a B&W TV. The colors you noticed on Xbone were because the Xbone was crushing blacks in GTA5 and other games and you didn't notice the problem. M$ sets this up, I think to confuse laymen. Whatever the issue is, it's a problem and it's easily fixed. I own all the machines and spent HOURS calibrating them in various rooms in my home on various HDTVs.

Have a good one.

No I was well informed of the crushed blacks, and I know its a tool to make shittier graphics look better, I have come to terms with that. Even if they are using a tool like crushed blacks to make their games look better....at the end of the day, they still look better. Maybe not on a technical level, like the more blades of grass on ps4 and little details like an extra badge on an officers uniform. But on an overall level, I do not have time to process the extra blade of grass every millisecond anyways, I am looking at the picture on a whole and things like more vibrant colors and darker blacks and lighter sunshines leave a more lasting impression on the human brain. If I look at still images later and dissect every detail than they do look better on ps4, but while I'm actually playing the game I tend to notice the better colors on the X1 version of many, many games.

Well, until we see it in the real world, it doesn't matter.

good games.

" while Quantum Break is scheduled to launch way earlie"

LMFAO...it is? SOURCE?

Desperate fakeboy lems hiding behind PC making fictional and delusional fanboy arguments. QB has NO release date at all kiddo that's why SolidTy called you out. It's releasing way early? The Order is releasing Feb and Bloodborne is releasing March, there are confirmed release dates...when it Quantum Break releasing?

This is why lems are clowns (yes I know you hide behind PC but your argument shows where your fanboyism is)

Your argument isn't even applicable since you just pulled everything out of your rear end.

DS2 full sale are unkown, but the fact that they've never been revealed indicates that it sold less than DS1 at the end.

DS1 sold 2,3 million including the Artorias DLC/PC version. Without those, it was 1,7 million ww between the ps3 and 360. Without the 360 sales, it sold less than 1.5 million.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-12-dark-souls-worldwide-sales-total-2-3-million

In short, Dark Souls sold less than 2 million units across the pc, ps3 and xbox 360 versions. How much are you expecting from a niche, core game that is exclusve to 1 platform? Maybe it'll go up to 1.5 million if you include japanese sales, but unlikely to sell 2 million.

Ense why i said Bloodborne isn't much of a system seller the way a game like Uncharted 4 is. Similar to how Bayonetta 2 isn't a system seller compared to Smash and Mario Kart.

Which is fine, since all i care about is how good the game is. Basically, the average person who buys a console doesn't even know what the **** a Bloodborne is. These are games aimed at the core gaming audiance, and that's who will buy the ps4 for it.

But no matter. The PS4 will continue to win worldwide due to positive word fo mouth, being morepowerfull and, well, Europe.

Sony has been marketing this game like crazy and it's going to get even more marketing before it comes out. It will sell well. I'm giving you the Solid guarantee.

ehehehehehehehhe

@FoxbatAlpha:

Congrats on not understanding the post. Now stop embarrassing yourself.