what's this, "DX12 will have a substantial effect on XB1"?

A wasted opportunity if accurate. I guess sometimes time frames are just misaligned. But we'll still have to wait and see what happens. As I said, the extent is still unknown.

On a semi related note, DX12 isn't quite the knee jerk reaction to Mantle some think it is. According to Nvidia (blog dated 20/03/2014) "Our work with Microsoft on DirectX 12 began more than four years ago with discussions about reducing resource overhead. For the past year, NVIDIA has been working closely with the DirectX team to deliver a working design and implementation of DX12 at GDC.".

@Wasdie: It will be hell on earth if both you and tormentos are wrong... We'll see in a few months..

@ttboy: I'm not exactly sure how I can be wrong. You can't magically make hardware more powerful with a software upgrade and consoles are already built around 3D graphic operations so there are no major software bottlenecks to overcome.

Phil Spencer already said that Xbox One and DX12 were being built simultaneously. Which is a clear indication that Xbox One has full DX12 support, not quite sure where you are getting your sources that are saying otherwise

Consider the hardware the Xbox One has. It's not DX12 hardware. Phil is trying to sell you the console. Don't believe everything he says.

Exactly what you can do is make it run the most efficient you can,and take the most advantage of what you have,which also apply to the PS4 but lemmings just want to pretend it doesnt.

The people actually believe that MS will close a 6 CU almost 600Gflops gap just by software alone,when on PC time and time again it has been shown that GCN is a line and that the one with more CU performs better.

Which is total bullshit and you crap propaganda that MS is running because it knows there is some die hard morons out there that will eat what ever they say,i mean look at tighasupeman quoting Beta test in the future slogan as if the freaking slogan literally mean that...lol

Phil was ask a direct question which he basically side stepped in no place he say the xbox one is fully compatible hardware wise with DX12,you interpret it that way which is totally different.

DX12 didn't exist 3 years ago reason why it is not HERE and arrive in late 2015 if all goes well,DX12 is nothing more than a late ass response from MS to mantle and like always they will claim their software is the biggest thing since electricity,basically they have claim that about every freaking DX done.

And in all they claim superior performance and better things...

This should shed some light on the power that will be freed up.

Didn't some MS official say they didn't think DX12 would have much of an effect on the Xbox One previously?

Honestly it's marketing, they've got shit to sell and it's sad how easily Lems fall for it. I'm not sure where the logic that Sony are just sitting on their arses has come from too, their ICE team have been ticking over with updates, they just don't have to attach a PR wing to them because they're on top in terms of power and graphically.

Personally i'll believe all the hullabaloo if we actually see some results.

@tormentos: Xbox 360 was the first unified GPU + supported some DX 10 stuff when DX 10 was not released. ...MS is not the stupid company that you guys seem to think. The only time they shipped a vanilla Xbox was with the original Xbox....I'm a big fan of their engineering to be honest.

If you and wasdie want to bet your accounts then I'm in...

Previously, Yes. With the new conference, a whole slew of insight has been cast upon DX12. It is upon us and it is great. Greater than previously anticipated.

Also, it is not just marketing. Sure there is a level of hype associated with something big like this but I think you are jaded from that Sony PR always falling short. Microsoft got this bro.

The GPU was the firs unified shader GPU,the xbox 360 GPU didn't have all DX10 features because it lacked hardware,it supported some features.

Oh and MS didn't hide having a unified shader GPU under NDA or some shit,all the contrary they hyped their GPU every time they had a chance,there is nothing secret about the xbox one is a GCN GPU weaker than the PS4 and DX12 will not change that.

No dude he was ask if he still hold what he say before that conference about not been a huge performance booster and he say Yea..hahahahaaa

Oh really? Where did you get that info from? www.pullshitoutofmyass.com? Phil confirmed 50% CPU performance after the conference.

On behalf of Hermits everywhere. We welcome our new Lemming Overlord with open arms

:)

"Bu, bu, but Phil.........................Phil told us it wouldn't do much.................We though the $3 billion for R&D was all for EsRam.................NO!!!!!"

What are you going to do next, post a fake GTX 970 picture like you did the other day? Give me a break.

Spencer

"We knew what DX12 was doing when we built Xbox One."

you guys honestly thought the " direct x box"was not going to have hardware to support its own new features?

I know! I don't think you can put it any simpler.

It's a 2013 card before DX12 was finalized. Use your head. It's based on a 2011-2012 PC GPU that is DX11 too. You can cling to some fantasy that all of a sudden DX12 will make the Xbox One more powerful but you're just going to end up disappointed.

What do you mean by this?

They've never stated the GPU other to say its from the sea islands family.. We do know that they've spent a lot of money to customize the hardware, hence the speculation. There are 2 camps on the subject caught in an infinite loop.

@Wasdie: well technically its an apu not a card. The only comparison to the card came when people started counting the components and then tried to 1 to 1 map them to a current card on the market. So the fixation of it being a "card" is entirely a construct made by fans.

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2086/xbox-one-gpu.html

Tech powerup only found DX11.2 functionality on the chip.

@tormentos: They never said it was GCN they said it BASED from AMD tech I dont know why i even talking you the only one trying to fight the wave ..........lol you better be a strong swimmer.

It depends if Xbox One's GCN has the flexibility to support DX11.3 hardware features.

NVIDIA Maxwell has new features such as viewport multicast, but AMD already similar extension in OpenGL https://www.opengl.org/registry/specs/AMD/vertex_shader_viewport_index.txt

This feature send triangles directly from the vertex shader to a viewport and skipping the slow geometry shader.

We have and Microsoft put a gag order on him.

Metro developer does not agree with that at all.

He bitched about DX11 how it was single thread heavy. Asking why Microsoft had the API on the system in the first place.

Digital Foundry: DirectX 11 vs GNMX vs GNM - what's your take on the strengths and weakness of the APIs available to developers with Xbox One and PlayStation 4? Closer to launch there were some complaints about XO driver performance and CPU overhead on GNMX.

Oles Shishkovstov: Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result.

In general - I don't really get why they choose DX11 as a starting point for the console. It's a console! Why care about some legacy stuff at all? On PS4, most GPU commands are just a few DWORDs written into the command buffer, let's say just a few CPU clock cycles. On Xbox One it easily could be one million times slower because of all the bookkeeping the API does.

But Microsoft is not sleeping, really. Each XDK that has been released both before and after the Xbox One launch has brought faster and faster draw-calls to the table. They added tons of features just to work around limitations of the DX11 API model. They even made a DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API available - although we didn't ship with it on Redux due to time constraints.

What is the methodology used by the site? I could've come up with those figures. MS have stated "According to Microsoft itself, the Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality."

No site or forum knows whats under the hood. Why do you think we make API's ? ... Only MS/ MS hardware partners and select Devs know the reality.

So basically this entire thing is Microsoft fanboys hoping that there is some secret magic that can make the Xbox One more powerful than the PS4. That's what this entire DX12 nonsense has come down too.

I'm sure the Xbox One with a measurably weaker GPU than the PS4's will somehow, through software upgrades, become more powerful than the PS4 so you can win petty and pointless arguments on System Wars.

I would more like to think it's something fans of the Xbox brand can look forward to.

Phil saying they knew what Dx12 could do when they built the X1 is kind of interesting. You have to admit.

They have never talked about the gpu in the X1.. People have speculated what it is.. Microsoft has never confirmed or denied claims. Is it because it's weak... or are they hiding something?

EDIT: Or did they in the Eurogamer article?

I think at GDC they will talk more about it.

I'm taking the wait and see approach.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Secret Sauce is not my forte.

Pretty much... My gut says that there is something we don't understand about this system. The engineering side of me hopes I am right!

I'm seeing the obvious implications of this entire discussion. I'm not blind. Anybody with half a brain sees this dumb argument as just a way for Microsoft fanboys to cling onto some hope that their precious Xbox One is somehow more powerful than the competition. It wouldn't even be discussed otherwise.

@kuu2: but the x1 had been opened and thoroughly examined like any new console. I'm just not understanding this

Has it? Not really...

Chiming in mid thread. Whats happening about DX12?

@kuu2: This exact reason. Get people talking about hype

We already know the specs of the consoles and the hardware. Consoles have been taken apart and examined.

The xboxone GPU along with all GPUs AMD has made for the past 5 years are DX12 compatible. Is it fully compat with all dx12 features? No. All the major ones? Yes. The rest of the missing features are just marketing gimmicks to sell GPUs next year. Every major feature of DX12 any AMD GPU from the last 5 years can do (including the xboxone).

Im going to say it again just look where the industry is moving.

Gddr5 is getting replaced by HBM

Direct Access Memory

lossless Data compression

ROPs being bypassed by Shader Cores

Multiple Contexts at the same time(usually one at a time)

No need for the CPU/GPU doing all the work other processor for each task.

When you put that together its clear that we leaving the PS4 way to what MS is doing with the X1