Where is the Wiimote FPS Revolution?

1. FPS selling more on the Wii was NEVER a point from sheep. The 360 is king of console FPS's.

2. Metroid Prime 3 isn't nearly as popular as Halo and they are completely different. Metroid Prime 3 isn't a FPS, so it really shouldn't apply to your arguement.

3. That leaves MOH:H2 which was said to control better than Halo 3.

4. Halo 3 was more anticipated, popular, and was marketed farther to consumers. It's way more appealing to the casuals/masses

5. MOH:H2 is NOT a great game it just happens to control superbly (Or so IGN tells us).tbone29

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="Demetri_OS"]It's their point under question. And we get a contradition; Sales matter when the Wii VS a traditional console. Sales DO NOT matter when Metriod 3 VS a traditional FPS. Yet, Metriod 3 is a revolution. Meaning, BETTER than the traditional FPS - yet, its not selling better than Halo 3.Demetri_OS

[QUOTE="tbone29"]1. FPS selling more on the Wii was NEVER a point from sheep. The 360 is king of console FPS's.

2. Metroid Prime 3 isn't nearly as popular as Halo and they are completely different. Metroid Prime 3 isn't a FPS, so it really shouldn't apply to your arguement.

3. That leaves MOH:H2 which was said to control better than Halo 3.

4. Halo 3 was more anticipated, popular, and was marketed farther to consumers. It's way more appealing to the casuals/masses

5. MOH:H2 is NOT a great game it just happens to control superbly (Or so IGN tells us).Demetri_OS

[QUOTE="tbone29"]1. FPS selling more on the Wii was NEVER a point from sheep. The 360 is king of console FPS's.

2. Metroid Prime 3 isn't nearly as popular as Halo and they are completely different. Metroid Prime 3 isn't a FPS, so it really shouldn't apply to your arguement.

3. That leaves MOH:H2 which was said to control better than Halo 3.

4. Halo 3 was more anticipated, popular, and was marketed farther to consumers. It's way more appealing to the casuals/masses

5. MOH:H2 is NOT a great game it just happens to control superbly (Or so IGN tells us).Demetri_OS

WTF, you like to spin more than the big 3.

You were JUST talking about Metroid Prime 3 sales, and now that I tell you the damn game isn't a FPS, you change your arguement again and bring future FPS's into this.

TC, what the hell are you trying to argue here, because you seriously need to stop changing the subject.

The industry is more excited about COD4 and Halo 3 and even Bioshock. No one is talking much about Metroid or Medal of Honor Wii.

The visuals are not thrilling to look at, and you just don't get the same "OMG!" feeling as when you're playing in HD with better visuals and more stuff going on.

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="Demetri_OS"]It's their point under question. And we get a contradition; Sales matter when the Wii VS a traditional console. Sales DO NOT matter when Metriod 3 VS a traditional FPS. Yet, Metriod 3 is a revolution. Meaning, BETTER than the traditional FPS - yet, its not selling better than Halo 3.Demetri_OS

Wait, what?

One MP3 isn't really an FPS... and there are many more things to consider when comparing MP3 to Halo in terms of sales. Example, marketing, have you ever seen a MP3 comercial or tie in? No. And you can't compare control unless you actually play MP3, and I have never seen a demo booth up anywhere displaying MP3.

Sales ultimately mean, more people have console A, more games will be made for console A than console B. We're already seeing this in action. Sales in games just means, more games in the vein of whatever will be made because there is a market for it.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"][QUOTE="Demetri_OS"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

[QUOTE="Demetri_OS"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]MOH:H2 -- Read the IGN Review. "Better controls than MP3"

"controls that spank anything that uses dual analog". They even said that the controls are the best they've seen on a home console, pc is a different story however.
Demetri_OS

Again - NO. Sheep have made it very clear that sales matter. So, why isn't Metriod 3 selling better than Halo 3? Since the mechanics are better? Metriod as an IP has been around since the 80s. Halo is new. Everyone knows Metriod. And this new way of playing was to revolutionize FPS. Yet, I don't see it selling better than traditional FPS. Just like the Wii is selling better than traditional console systems, why isn't Metriod 3 selling better than traditional FPS?

You must have not been in system wars long. Sheep made it clear that sales matters? What about cows last gen? Like it or not, sales and games both matter when it comes to a consoles success.

As for Metroid prime 3 selling better than Halo 3, that would never have happened. Metroid didnt sell as well becasue of many reasons.
- It didnt launch globally like Halo 3 did, only launched in some regions.
- Doesnt have the media success that is "Halo".
- Halo 3 was marketed to DEATH, and it worked. Without the marketing H3 would not has sold as much as it has today.
- Metroid prime never have a good track record when it comes to sales, unlike the halo series.
- Halo has more appeal to people than MP does. Halo can appeal to "Hardcores" and "Casuals" -- just like GTA, Mario, Etc -- MP caters to the hardcore Metroid Fan (like myself) and Nintendo fans, who enjoy anything good from nintendo.

C-l-a-s-s-i-c midirection ploy. A can lead to B. A can also lead to C. Therefore C must be the same as B.

In this case, innovation (A) can lead to a high sales for a single game (B). Innovation (A) can also lead to a gameplay revolution (C). Therefore, high sales for a single game (B) must be the same as a gameplay revolution (C).

Nice. Of course, everyone here except you recognizes the stupidity of the argument. You just refuse to give it up.

[QUOTE="tbone29"]

[QUOTE="Demetri_OS"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]MOH:H2 -- Read the IGN Review. "Better controls than MP3"

"controls that spank anything that uses dual analog". They even said that the controls are the best they've seen on a home console, pc is a different story however.
Demetri_OS

What the hell does that have to do with it :|

Yeah but you were talking about controlls you just decided to bring up sales because i'm guessing you couldn't come up with a real argument.

The industry is more excited about COD4 and Halo 3 and even Bioshock. No one is talking much about Metroid or Medal of Honor Wii.

The visuals are not thrilling to look at, and you just don't get the same "OMG!" feeling as when you're playing in HD with better visuals and more stuff going on.

PhoebusFlows

Uhm,.. read your brothers/sisters post more closely. Every Wii sales related thread claims victory. Do not downplay the overkill sheep have poured on these boards with Wii sales. Demetri_OS

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Tylendal"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Wii doesn't reall bring revolution to any kind of gaming (unless you consider WiiFit to be gaming). If you're looking for lots of innovations Wii doesn't really deliver on it's promiseslordlors

Let's see another console that can play games like Wario-Ware: Smooth Moves, Trauma Center: Second Opinion. Actually uses tilt in a game like Mercury Madness, or Super Monkey Ball. Plays traditional games like Super Mario: Galaxy, or The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Has FPS controls as precise and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, MOH: H2? And do it all with the same device.

I'm a PCgamer. Aside from possibly WarioWare all Wii does I've already seen in other games. From my perspective it's just new control method in old games.

I'm was a pc only gamer for 10 years and consoles never interested me much until the wii. Most games for the wii definitely can't be played on other consoles. it's becuase of the wii i got into console gaming. Wii mote revolutionize the console FPS controls but seeing some ignorant people mentioning the sales of Halo 3, the only great FPS games for the wii are MP: 3 and MoH:H2. Does metroid appeal to gamers who like halo? NO. Does MoH:H2 appeal to gamers who like CoD4? No. There are only two games and these games aren't popular. nintendo does bad marketing in my perspective like not letting the press play bwii single player until it's released. whereas halo 3 i don't need to talk about it. think before you post stupid statements.

Learn the meaning of "innovation" before you post stupidd statements. And I never claimed anything about sales. THe only claim I'm making is that Wii fails at providing innovative games

The industry is more excited about COD4 and Halo 3 and even Bioshock. No one is talking much about Metroid or Medal of Honor Wii.

The visuals are not thrilling to look at, and you just don't get the same "OMG!" feeling as when you're playing in HD with better visuals and more stuff going on.

PhoebusFlows

Doesn't hurt that Metroid Prime 3 isn't a FPS and MOH:H2 isn't that great a game either.

The industry is more excited about COD4 and Halo 3 and even Bioshock. No one is talking much about Metroid or Medal of Honor Wii.

The visuals are not thrilling to look at, and you just don't get the same "OMG!" feeling as when you're playing in HD with better visuals and more stuff going on.

PhoebusFlows

I'll dissagree with you there. While people are excited about COD4 and Bioshock (in the case of Bioshock it seems it's just another chance for the public to buy System shock 2, but that's another thread).

If you play FPS seriously, you know Dual Stick sucks. The fact that a console can make a control setup that is almost/just as good as KB/M is a huge "WOW OMG" feeling.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="Demetri_OS"]Metriod 3 was suppose to herald in a new era of how FPS games would be played. Is it still happening? Because I see no one screaming on how great Metriod 3's Wiimote setup is. Nor do I see developers saying; "Yeah! I want MY FPS to play just like that!!!"Demetri_OS

What does this post have to do with sales? Nothing. If you want to talk sales, why don't you start a topic about sales instead of changing the subject after being proven wrong within 2 replies.

We are talking about how a game plays. Not sales. If you want to talk about slaes, why not start a topic about sales?

Were talking about how gams play, not how they sell. Here, I highlighted it for you. MP3 controls better than Halo. That's it...controls. and that's all due to the wiimote.

[QUOTE="SER69"]

Wii mote > Dual analog.

That is how.

Demetri_OS

You sense no make all at.

but great graphics don't make an average game play any better.Hoffgod

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"] but great graphics don't make an average game play any better.AdrianWerner

But bad graphics or a bad control method can make an average game worse. :P

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"] but great graphics don't make an average game play any better.AdrianWerner

Superior ones will.

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"] but great graphics don't make an average game play any better.AdrianWerner

No one claims that. However, a new, and most importantly, more flexible control method does raise a game's potential. It's up to developers to make use of that potential.

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"] but great graphics don't make an average game play any better.AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"] but great graphics don't make an average game play any better.Hoffgod

Good call. Good call.

[QUOTE="Demetri_OS"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

[QUOTE="Demetri_OS"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]MOH:H2 -- Read the IGN Review. "Better controls than MP3"

"controls that spank anything that uses dual analog". They even said that the controls are the best they've seen on a home console, pc is a different story however.
Haziqonfire

Again - NO. Sheep have made it very clear that sales matter. So, why isn't Metriod 3 selling better than Halo 3? Since the mechanics are better? Metriod as an IP has been around since the 80s. Halo is new. Everyone knows Metriod. And this new way of playing was to revolutionize FPS. Yet, I don't see it selling better than traditional FPS. Just like the Wii is selling better than traditional console systems, why isn't Metriod 3 selling better than traditional FPS?

You must have not been in system wars long. Sheep made it clear that sales matters? What about cows last gen? Like it or not, sales and games both matter when it comes to a consoles success.

As for Metroid prime 3 selling better than Halo 3, that would never have happened. Metroid didnt sell as well becasue of many reasons.
- It didnt launch globally like Halo 3 did, only launched in some regions.
- Doesnt have the media success that is "Halo".
- Halo 3 was marketed to DEATH, and it worked. Without the marketing H3 would not has sold as much as it has today.
- Metroid prime never have a good track record when it comes to sales, unlike the halo series.
- Halo has more appeal to people than MP does. Halo can appeal to "Hardcores" and "Casuals" -- just like GTA, Mario, Etc -- MP caters to the hardcore Metroid Fan (like myself) and Nintendo fans, who enjoy anything good from nintendo.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]MOH:H2 -- Read the IGN Review. "Better controls than MP3"

"controls that spank anything that uses dual analog". They even said that the controls are the best they've seen on a home console, pc is a different story however.
Demetri_OS

:| no one mentioned the sales.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"] but great graphics don't make an average game play any better.Hoffgod

Well....I actualy enjoyed Jericho, but if that game would have Wii-level of graphics it would suck. Good graphics were the only redeeming value of that game and they made the game enjoyable (more or less)

[QUOTE="TDLlama"]The controls itself are a revolution... Wii Sports, Metroid Prime 3, and Wii Fit are revolutionizing gaming whether you like it or not.Demetri_OS

Nintendo products sell best outside the US. FPS don't do has well outside the US. Plus it does not hurt that the only good FPS to come out so far is MP3.

[QUOTE="Demetri_OS"][QUOTE="TDLlama"]The controls itself are a revolution... Wii Sports, Metroid Prime 3, and Wii Fit are revolutionizing gaming whether you like it or not.HarlockJC

Nintendo products sell best outside the US. FPS don't do has well outside the US. Plus it does not hurt that the only good FPS to come out so far is MP3.

I don't think so. currently US is the market where Wii is doing the best.

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"] but great graphics don't make an average game play any better.AdrianWerner

Well....I actualy enjoyed Jericho, but if that game would have Wii-level of graphics it would suck. Good graphics were the only redeeming value of that game and they made the game enjoyable (more or less)

[QUOTE="SER69"]

Wii mote > Dual analog.

That is how.

Demetri_OS

Yeah like this topic was a sales arguement at first.:roll:

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"] but great graphics don't make an average game play any better.Hoffgod

Well....I actualy enjoyed Jericho, but if that game would have Wii-level of graphics it would suck. Good graphics were the only redeeming value of that game and they made the game enjoyable (more or less)

did it change the core gameplay? Not any less than wiimote changed core gameplay of MOH: H2 or RedSteel.

I don't see how Halo having more sales makes it have better FPS controls. :?

Tons of games that are complete garbage sell a lot, some sell a lot more than great games. Does that make the garbage games better than the great games?

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]MOH:H2 -- Read the IGN Review. "Better controls than MP3"

"controls that spank anything that uses dual analog". They even said that the controls are the best they've seen on a home console, pc is a different story however.
Demetri_OS

Maybe we'll just have to split on this. Some here prefer the next-gen visuals and effects, some prefer the motion controls. I've played TP, RE4 Wii and some Red Steel. I just never was that amazed with it and I didnt feel like I was immersed that much. I could've easily played TP with a controller and still not miss a beat (anyone remember Wind Waker?) RE4 had a few sticky turning issues, and many of what i thought were headshots did not count as headshots even though the reticule was red. I did not feel immersed, and it almost feels like a shooting gallery, not three-dimensional immersiveness.

I just get way more enjoyment out of something like Bioshock or Halo 3. The gigantic Scarab battle blew me away. The shadowy hallways and some objects almost look real in a certain light. I get more "immersiveness" out of that than motion controls with Wii visuals. We're just going to have to disagree here

Dude.... What the hell is wrong with you TC? You are the worst argument maker in the world. you write a topic about controls and then you suddenly switch to sales???? wtf?

metroid will never sell as much as halo even if it has better controls? why because controls are only a small part of what makes a game. if metroid came out with a joystick and halo with a wiimote, halo would still sell more. halo appeals to fans of casual shooters which far outnumber the hardcore adventure fans.

metroid is just too involving and difficult for casuals to find interesting. some people prefer halo, some people prefer metroid. more people prefer halo because few people are hardcore gamers. it has nothing to do with controls.

Metriod 3 was suppose to herald in a new era of how FPS games would be played. Is it still happening? Because I see no one screaming on how great Metriod 3's Wiimote setup is. Nor do I see developers saying; "Yeah! I want MY FPS to play just like that!!!"Demetri_OS

Actually ive been praising its setup for months now. And so has anyone who played it. Revolutions just take awhile because people are stuck on the old old ways of doing things

[QUOTE="tbone29"]

[QUOTE="Demetri_OS"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]MOH:H2 -- Read the IGN Review. "Better controls than MP3"

"controls that spank anything that uses dual analog". They even said that the controls are the best they've seen on a home console, pc is a different story however.
Demetri_OS

What the hell does that have to do with it :|

[QUOTE="Demetri_OS"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]MOH:H2 -- Read the IGN Review. "Better controls than MP3"

"controls that spank anything that uses dual analog". They even said that the controls are the best they've seen on a home console, pc is a different story however.
tbone29

What the hell does that have to do with it :|

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"]

So the graphics made the experience more atmospheric. Did that change the core gameplay any?AdrianWerner

did it change the core gameplay? Not any less than wiimote changed core gameplay of MOH: H2 or RedSteel.

Maybe we'll just have to split on this. Some here prefer the next-gen visuals and effects, some prefer the motion controls. I've played TP, RE4 Wii and some Red Steel. I just never was that amazed with it and I didnt feel like I was immersed that much. I could've easily played TP with a controller and still not miss a beat (anyone remember Wind Waker?) RE4 had a few sticky turning issues, and many of what i thought were headshots did not count as headshots even though the reticule was red. I did not feel immersed, and it almost feels like a shooting gallery, not three-dimensional immersiveness.

I just get way more enjoyment out of something like Bioshock or Halo 3. The gigantic Scarab battle blew me away. The shadowy hallways and some objects almost look real in a certain light. I get more "immersiveness" out of that than motion controls with Wii visuals. We're just going to have to disagree here

PhoebusFlows

About RE4, the devs made headshots harder because the Wiimote made the game way too easy. And the turning is just as bad in the GameCube and PS2 versions. But you can get pixel-perfect accuracy with the Wiimote in RE4. Just try shooting one of the blue tags from across the village.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"]

So the graphics made the experience more atmospheric. Did that change the core gameplay any?Hoffgod

did it change the core gameplay? Not any less than wiimote changed core gameplay of MOH: H2 or RedSteel.

I'm PCgamer though. Remember that. I'm talking from PC perspective. So no wonder everything Wii does looks like rehash to me. Maybe from console owner's perspective it's all more fresh.

[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"]

So the graphics made the experience more atmospheric. Did that change the core gameplay any?AdrianWerner

did it change the core gameplay? Not any less than wiimote changed core gameplay of MOH: H2 or RedSteel.

I'm PCgamer though. Remember that. I'm talking from PC perspective. So no wonder everything Wii does looks like rehash to me. Maybe from console owner's perspective it's all more fresh.

It's a revolution for console shooters, then. It's kind of like the DS. The DS basically adds a mouse to portables. So does the Wii. Everyone knows KB/M is the best and most precise form of point control, anyway. What the PC lacks, however, is accurate and intuitive analog control. The Wiimote + nunchuck is, therefore, a merger of the best control qualities of both PCs and traditional consoles.

Beyond that, the Wiimote also has gesture controls. The motion sensors on the nunchuck, for example, can be used for quick dodging, something which has never really been part of FPSes but was used to great effect in Gears of War. It's more intuitive, too, since quick dodges are supposed to be done as a reflex, and it's a lot faster and easier to twitch your hand in the direction you want your character to dodge than to move an analog stick in that direction then press a totally separate button to initiate the dodge.