Why cant you play as Germans in WW2 shooters ?

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"][QUOTE="lettuceman44"] Lol, no of course not. I don't see how you even got that from what I said.....? But why would Americans say they are worse then the others? Why would the British do the same? And the same with the Japanese and Germans?lettuceman44

Ask the others who have been making comments, because I'm done.

Look, if you want to debate, now is not the time and place.

I hope we can call it quits, as this is getting no where and I sensed that it is starting to get out of hand. I hope we also do not have hard feelings, as I apologize, and I hope you accept it.

Can we just let this slip by? I really can't stand these things, as I don't like feuds...

Can we please.........just stop.........I already said I'm sorry for the personal attack...(you might not take it personally, but I think it was a little)

I just wanted to offer reasoning as to why these decisions were made, however I took it a bit too far.

Can we please.........just stop.........I already said I'm sorry for the personal attack...lettuceman44

[QUOTE="lettuceman44"]Can we please.........just stop.........I already said I'm sorry for the personal attack...Shafftehr

[QUOTE="Sonic_on_crack"][QUOTE="-Snooze-"] Well all know America didn't have to throw it's nuclear might at Japan, Especially not twice. That was just a bullying tactic, to show the world that America is THE superpower.-Snooze-

Exactly my point. A bully tactic. Defending it with "bu bu but the american people" is a terrible excuse. Especially since you're now being picked apart by a couple of dudes stealing planes. WW2 shown us many evils, and Americas was possibly the worst.

The United States was the most evil country in WW2? We may not be the most perfect country in the world, but we didn't slaughter millions of innocent people because of their beliefs (the Nazi empire did so).

gmc2u_64

Funny thing is, most of you don't really care if you play as the Russians in WWII. Civ IV put Stalin in as a playable character and almost no-one cares, even though he killed significantly more people - but Hitler "Oh, he's so evil, do you know what he did?" I swear most of the dopes who go on like that don't even understand that there were worse things going on at the time outside of Germany, and worse things have happened since without nearly the press. It's all a matter of air time, and what you've been trained to think is evil, and what evils you haven't been taught to care about...

What it all boils down to is that's it's perfectly OK to slaughter German regular army that weren't part of the whole thing, but killing an American? *Gasp* Not like that nation endorses the torture of untried people to this day, regularly endorsed civilian bombings long after WWII was over, and is the only nation to ever use an atomic WMD on a populated area - and did so twice. Gotta play the "good" guys after all... I'm not sure what's worse in this thread - the hypocrisy or the utter ignorance.

Shafftehr

As for Americans your right we are not saints either were just the lesser of two evils. What we did to the Japanese was wrong but we wanted to end the war quickly people were tired of war. Before we dropped the nukes there was no ending in site most military officials thought we would have to invade Japan to end the war. Question what civilian bombing are you talking about? As for torture does everyone here forget water boarding or holding prisoners against their rights as recently as 08? Your not an anti-american your just a person who points out things western text books forgot to mention.

good god.. whenever a WW2 game comes up, everyone gets all offended for absolutely no reason...

-why would it be so wrong to play as a german soilder during WW2 if he had an indifferent or evennegative opinion of the Nazi actions? (for that matter, why would it be so bad for your character to be an actual nazi? people commit murder in a game with no problem whatsoever. but if it's a hate crime - "OH NOES!!! THAT'S BAD!!!")

-why is it so bad to kill americans/europeans other than germans in a game?

-why do people act like the Americans have never done anything wrong?

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

[QUOTE="Sonic_on_crack"] With all due respect , America made an example out of Japan to show any nation that would be stupid enough to attack their home soil what lies in wait for them. Was is brutal and vicious , yes but effective none the less . gmc2u_64

Exactly my point. A bully tactic. Defending it with "bu bu but the american people" is a terrible excuse. Especially since you're now being picked apart by a couple of dudes stealing planes. WW2 shown us many evils, and Americas was possibly the worst.

They lost.

Also, the Germans were considered to be in the wrong by the majority, and Nazis are still generally frowned upon.. It would be bad sales.

You can play as Germans in Company of Heroes.

No suing yet...

[QUOTE="gmc2u_64"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

Exactly my point. A bully tactic. Defending it with "bu bu but the american people" is a terrible excuse. Especially since you're now being picked apart by a couple of dudes stealing planes. WW2 shown us many evils, and Americas was possibly the worst.

2beers_in_hand

My girlfriend wont even look at me playing Cod: Waw, she is Japanese and as soon as I booted the game up she asked If you could play as a Japanese soilder, I looked honestly and you couldnt, I thought that it might be an option for multi player but No, it wasn't. She found the game very appalling to her, to see her own kind die but the person I was controlling, almost as if I was the one personally killing them. Needless to say I played it and finished it when she wasn't around.

I think the topic is a good idea, maybe just make the german and Japanese playable in multi player, kind of how like in Bf1942 etc you can be different factions from different countries.

Anyone seen Grave of the fireflys? the fire bombings Japan went through in ww2 were atrosious, kill innocents to stop labour which halts war production. I almost cried its that sad.

The Nazis were clearly brutal and sadistic, and they commited any number of attrocities, but I suppose that many German soldiers had no idea what their leaders were up to (or got caught up in the propaganda). They weren't all 'evil', and yet very few war movies or games even attempt to make them human, or give them remotely sympathetic characters (some German films, like Das Boot, do that, but that's not the point).

So...I guess that I might want to play a game where the Germans don't all follow the 'pure evil' stereotype. They'd have to do something really clever for the finale - I don't know, defecting and liberating a concentration camp, perhaps (Did that ever happen? There *must* be some interesting stories of German soldiers switching sides).

*edit* A German-focused game wouldn't even have to have concentration camps in it, it would only have to focus on the war effort, I guess. I mean, has there been a WW2 shooter where you get to drop nukes on Japanese civilians? Of course not.

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"]

Funny thing is, most of you don't really care if you play as the Russians in WWII. Civ IV put Stalin in as a playable character and almost no-one cares, even though he killed significantly more people - but Hitler "Oh, he's so evil, do you know what he did?" I swear most of the dopes who go on like that don't even understand that there were worse things going on at the time outside of Germany, and worse things have happened since without nearly the press. It's all a matter of air time, and what you've been trained to think is evil, and what evils you haven't been taught to care about...

What it all boils down to is that's it's perfectly OK to slaughter German regular army that weren't part of the whole thing, but killing an American? *Gasp* Not like that nation endorses the torture of untried people to this day, regularly endorsed civilian bombings long after WWII was over, and is the only nation to ever use an atomic WMD on a populated area - and did so twice. Gotta play the "good" guys after all... I'm not sure what's worse in this thread - the hypocrisy or the utter ignorance.

2beers_in_hand

As for Americans your right we are not saints either were just the lesser of two evils. What we did to the Japanese was wrong but we wanted to end the war quickly people were tired of war. Before we dropped the nukes there was no ending in site most military officials thought we would have to invade Japan to end the war. Question what civilian bombing are you talking about? As for torture does everyone here forget water boarding or holding prisoners against their rights as recently as 08? Your not an anti-american your just a person who points out things western text books forgot to mention.

It's fairly common in WWII strategy sims. I guess the target audience is different and immature players may get the wrong ideas like Neo Nazism, the Klan, ethnic cleansing blah blah blah. Developers tend to avoid touchy political issues because of rating and stuff.

not aproblem your not anti-america your just telling it like it is. like I said earlier western textbooks only tell one side of the story. Anytime you can rap up an important part of history in a couple of paragraphs you've got some problems.

The Nazis were clearly brutal and sadistic, and they commited any number of attrocities, but I suppose that many German soldiers had no idea what their leaders were up to (or got caught up in the propaganda). They weren't all 'evil', and yet very few war movies or games even attempt to make them human, or give them remotely sympathetic characters (some German films, like Das Boot, do that, but that's not the point).

So...I guess that I might want to play a game where the Germans don't all follow the 'pure evil' stereotype. They'd have to do something really clever for the finale - I don't know, defecting and liberating a concentration camp, perhaps (Did that ever happen? There *must* be some interesting stories of German soldiers switching sides).

Planeforger

It's fairly common in WWII strategy sims. I guess the target audience is different and immature players may get the wrong ideas like Neo Nazism, the Klan, ethnic cleansing blah blah blah. Developers tend to avoid touchy political issues because of rating and stuff.

ralphikari

[QUOTE="ralphikari"]

It's fairly common in WWII strategy sims. I guess the target audience is different and immature players may get the wrong ideas like Neo Nazism, the Klan, ethnic cleansing blah blah blah. Developers tend to avoid touchy political issues because of rating and stuff.

redbaron3

FPS may be an exception due to their graphical nature. A number of PC games I've played in other genres have full German campaigns eg. Patton vs Rommel, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Axis and Allies andRush for Berlin.

As far as the real war I respect the soldiers on both sides. Sure there were crazies and berserkers but most were just young souls with an ideal who hadn't seen much of the world. My grandpa was an army interpreter in the Pacific War and he didn't hate, only sympathized the enemies. Put the blame on politicians and the generals high up. They're where the corruption is. It's also our duty as citizens to keep our own governments in check.

Well, when devs in this continent are making games, they are trying to appeal to the general populace which are mostly Americans. Therefore creating a game that is centered around playing a Nazi, a Japanese or even a soviet campaign wouldn't be as appealing as making an American one. After all, patriotism plays a factor here.

[QUOTE="gamer620"]

Why would you wan't to play from the Nazi's side? There are no stories worth telling from a Nazi perspective that would translate well into a video game. It is as simple as that.

Sonic_on_crack

and please people, don't go around claiming America is the good guys and all innocent. Innocent people don't nuke others and kill civilians and overtake country's for oil. So many die in the past in much larger numbers, and nothing is thought of it...when 9/11 happens, its the end of the world and the BIGGEST incident in mankind...it can't be tolerated. *facepalm* Slambo86

Actually a game playing as the German troops portraying their side of the war and showing that they have a similar mentality to us would be great. The vast majority of the German Troops were not Nazis and had no idea about the Concentration Camps or the mass slaughter of select groups of people. So seeing the war from their point of view would be interesting.

DarkGamer007

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

Actually a game playing as the German troops portraying their side of the war and showing that they have a similar mentality to us would be great. The vast majority of the German Troops were not Nazis and had no idea about the Concentration Camps or the mass slaughter of select groups of people. So seeing the war from their point of view would be interesting.

Truth-slayer

Because publishers don't want to get sued because a game involves killing American troops. I think it's a dumb double standard.

organic_machine

[QUOTE="Truth-slayer"][QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

Actually a game playing as the German troops portraying their side of the war and showing that they have a similar mentality to us would be great. The vast majority of the German Troops were not Nazis and had no idea about the Concentration Camps or the mass slaughter of select groups of people. So seeing the war from their point of view would be interesting.

carrot-cake

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]

Because publishers don't want to get sued because a game involves killing American troops. I think it's a dumb double standard.

Truth-slayer

[QUOTE="Truth-slayer"][QUOTE="organic_machine"]

Because publishers don't want to get sued because a game involves killing American troops. I think it's a dumb double standard.

Slambo86

Not every German soldier was a Nazi fascist by the way, there is this little thing called conscription. Still, it would be very hard to sell and no developer would want to take on a task like this.

[QUOTE="Silent-Hal"]Think for a second about what the Nazis actually did during WWII and then you'll have your answer. kage_53

I wish I didn't have work today so I would have posted in this thread sooner :( There is too much hypocracy and "patriotism :roll:" in this thread.

Regardless of what you think, the German's were seen as the bad guys in that war by most of the rest of the world. The Germans themselves find what their people did in WWII to be an embarrassment. The amount of stigma from the general public regarding the Germans during WWII is huge, most people would find it in bad taste for such a thing to be featured in as sensitive a capacity as a video-game.

What the Americans did (yes, thats right, I'm not American) did in order to stop WWII is inexcusable but it was done so for a reason. You can't say that about some of the atrocities committed by the Nazi party. Secretly rounding up and butchering over six million innocent civilians isn't an act of war. It's genocide.

Whatever, if you truly think that the Americans have any comparisons with the Nazis then that's fine. I just don't have any amount of respect for someone who thinks that.

Actually a game playing as the German troops portraying their side of the war and showing that they have a similar mentality to us would be great. The vast majority of the German Troops were not Nazis and had no idea about the Concentration Camps or the mass slaughter of select groups of people. So seeing the war from their point of view would be interesting.

DarkGamer007

Playing as anything other than Americans will do, Thank You!

I'm from Europe and I personally would love to play as Germany during a WW2 game. I can only think of Battlefield 1942 where I've experinced this. Basically what it comes down to is that my favorite WWII movies focus on the German side and I'm hoping it would be the same for games focusing on the German side.

I can personally rec everyone to check out these movies btw, Der Untergang (Downfall), Das Boot, Cross of Iron, Stalingrad.

On an offtopic note I would like to say that WW2 games need to become better in general, both when it comes to story and when it comes to the terror of the conflict. I'm very intrested in WW2 and I've watched countless doumentries about the conflict and both movies and games need to stop sugar-coating it because the conflict was beyond brutal on all fronts.

[QUOTE="Sonic_on_crack"]

Their the entire reason the war started yet in all the WW2 games I remember you play as soldiers from

1.The United States of America (crowd cheers)

2.The United Kingdom (ehh there ok)

Is is because developers think it wouldnt be fun playing as the losing side of the war or something ?

Bigboi500

but its just a video game..............:P

Psht, why would you want to play as the losers. :PII-FBIsniper-II

Because there are no winners in war. I hate how games glorify wars. Can't there be a war game where the gruesome side of war is expressed?

I will allways remember that qoute from that fool at Treyarch where he stated that WWII was a battle between good and evil. Absolutely outrageous comment. I guess the soviets were being good guys when they killed and raped all those people in Berlin at the end of the war. I guess it was heroic of the commanders at D-Day to make a critical error that led to the unnesecary deaths of thousands of men. I guess it was a lie that the soviets invaded Poland at the same time the Germans did as part of an arrangement, and maintained control of the country after the war (This is actually not often taught, which is strange. It wasn't until recently that I learned about this.). War is never that black and white. It's never a conflict of good and evil. It's because of this attitude that we will never see an acurate portrayal of WWII in video games. The Nazis will allways be the "bad guys".

Personally I don't care if I have to play as an American, Soviet, German or whatever I can't say because it is demmed offensive here (Apparently. Though I don't see any other words I can use in it's place. It's only a short hand, I don't understand why people get so annoyed about using it.). I would just like the games to be atleast somewhat historically accurate, and drop this pretensious "good vs evil" nonsense. Ever played MoH:Airbourne? With the Nazi Gas Mask Super Soilders that take about 30 clips to kill? And how about the way all the Germans look exactly the same in every WWII FPS you've played? What the Germans did was wrong, but that does not make everyone else innocent by default.

Its sickening for me to play as the allies in ww2 games, think about Munich, Bremen and THE FIREBOMBINGS of Dresden A city with absolutely No Military relevance in 1945 was bombed over and over and yes british and U.S air forces slaughtered over 100.000 german civilians in a single night, what the Russians did to their own people in Ukraine WAS OK, they are heroes who deserve to be glorified in video games for killing and raping innocent women & children? They were just "liberating those territories" how heroic, Germany was a country Humiliated and blamed for WW2, The Versailles treaty was unfair and disgusting, germ any was forced to pay for every death and every damage caused during WW1, THEY DIDNT start WW1. The Original Abuse of the Allies Caused WW2.

[QUOTE="tok1879"]I can't believe there's actually a back and forth debate over this issue. This makes me sad and weep for humanity. Why would you want to fight as a german soldier in that war? Maybe you'ld like to stuff little kids and other innocent people in ovens as a side mission as well. As much as this startles me, it sort of lessens the blow i felt from reading the responses to the criticisms of RE5. It's not that these people are insensitive to the black cause. They're just insensitive in general and ignorant as well.redbaron3

Perhaps you should read the story of Max Schmeling a German Boxer who fell out of favor with Adolf Hitler and was forced to fight in the battle of Crete, and later risked his life to save the lives of two Jewish children

Two words: THE HOLOCAUST. For many playing as a Wermarct soldier is the equivalent of glorifying the Nazi Regiem. Though it does seem odd that you can play as German U-Boat Captains in games like Silent Hunter ora Luftwaffe Pilot in games like Aces over Europeandit doesn't generate the same kind of controversy