Why didnt people like FF12?

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gaming25

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#1 gaming25
Member since 2010 • 6181 Posts

I understand why people might not have like FF13, FFX, etc, but I dont understand how they can hate FF12.

Does it have towns- got it

Open World- got It

Tons of side quests- got it

A load of dungeons- got it

So why is it that there are many FF fans that were not pleased with this game? It had all of the things that they wanted (non linear, exploration, innovative gameplay). How could this game be possibly be hated on?

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firebolt53

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#3 firebolt53
Member since 2009 • 670 Posts
It was clunky, had the worst story to date, the worst characters and the side quests although addictive were not actually that fun. I still enjoyed it but it was by far the weakest. I dont know how you can say X was hated, thats one of the more popular games in the series. 13 was just hated because the people didnt play far enough to get to the good bits, hell i almost didnt.
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110million

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#4 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
I duno, I personally love political stories, and if people played far enough, they would see that it actually had a pretty unique story. The party didn't evolve a ton, but I hated the cast of FFX so much, I don't see how people can complain about FFXII's. Basch, Fran, Balthier, Ashe, they are all pretty great, FFX had like Auron. FF12 also had by far my favorite combat system of any FF, and the open areas too were great. I really wish FF13 was more like FF12..
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Inconsistancy

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#5 Inconsistancy
Member since 2004 • 8094 Posts
Isn't that the one where one of the characters has a short short shirt and shows off their absolutely horrible textured abs?
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rikimaru93

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#6 rikimaru93
Member since 2003 • 762 Posts

If i wanted to play an MMO id play an MMO. Furthermore, I thought the story was mediocre and the music while good lost the charm of the previous titles (FF13 had the same problem IMO). While I didnt like it, I still appreciate that they tried to do something different though, it just wasnt for me.

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gaming25

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#7 gaming25
Member since 2010 • 6181 Posts

If i wanted to play an MMO id play an MMO. Furthermore, I thought the story was mediocre and the music while good lost the charm of the previous titles (FF13 had the same problem IMO). While I didnt like it, I still appreciate that they tried to do something different though, it just wasnt for me.

rikimaru93
FF12 is far from a dungeon crawler. Most of the dungeons are optional.
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xWoW_Rougex

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#8 xWoW_Rougex
Member since 2009 • 2793 Posts

I understand why people might not have like FF13, FFX, etc, but I dont understand how they can hate FF12.

Does it have towns- got it

Open World- got It

Tons of side quests- got it

A load of dungeons- got it

So why is it that there are many FF fans that were not pleased with this game? It had all of the things that they wanted (non linear, exploration, innovative gameplay). How could this game be possibly be hated on?

gaming25



I have mixed feelings for FF12, I agree with the things you mentioned. It did a great job with that however, the story and characters were so bland and boring. The main character, Vaan has no personality at all and I can't recall many characters from the game at all. I remember Vaan, that pirate dude and the bunny girl. I can barely recall their looks, and I can't even remember their voice or personality at all. The last boss was... some dude, like... When I killed him I was stunned to see that the ending scenes, it felt like I just killed some random boss I just met.

Not to mention the music, I can't remember one single tune from that game, the music was not my type at all, it was too "grand" or whatever. Just like the story, too "political" and stuff...

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nbessiner

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#9 nbessiner
Member since 2009 • 731 Posts

I loved it. It had the best battle system, the story wasn't bad and the characters were a lot better than those of FFX and there was so much to do

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ksire_68

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#10 ksire_68
Member since 2007 • 1211 Posts

The transition from turn-based to real time battles was a little off-putting. Also, the story and the characters were not as appealing as the previous instalments.

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Luxen90

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#11 Luxen90
Member since 2006 • 7427 Posts

Yasumi Matsuno should get another shot at a FF main game with full control over the project.

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110million

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#12 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts

The transition from turn-based to real time battles was a little off-putting. Also, the story and the characters were not as appealing as the previous instalments.

ksire_68
Again, I kind of have to disagree. *SPOILERS AHEAD* The idea that the "villan' was trying to separate man being tied down to these gods made him sort of like a hero and you more like a villan. It was one of the few RPG villans who actually had a reason he had to be evil to try to accomplish what he was doing.
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#13 travisstaggs
Member since 2008 • 10562 Posts

I thought it was a good game, but the characters weren't as good as other FF games except for Balthier, he was awesome.

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gaming25

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#14 gaming25
Member since 2010 • 6181 Posts
[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="ksire_68"]

The transition from turn-based to real time battles was a little off-putting. Also, the story and the characters were not as appealing as the previous instalments.

Again, I kind of have to disagree. *SPOILERS AHEAD* The idea that the "villan' was trying to separate man being tied down to these gods made him sort of like a hero and you more like a villan. It was one of the few RPG villans who actually had a reason he had to be evil to try to accomplish what he was doing.

That wasnt what happened at all. He tried to get the power for himself, so that he could rule everyone. And then he fused with a super evil dude at the end as well.
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Anjunaddict

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#15 Anjunaddict
Member since 2010 • 4178 Posts
I liked it, but found the story boring. I still finished it though.
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Zurrur

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#16 Zurrur
Member since 2009 • 1701 Posts

It was bad cos characters sucked, story was terrible political nonsence, combat was bad... don't wanna play MMORPG in single player

And open world RPGS suck

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110million

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#17 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
[QUOTE="gaming25"][QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="ksire_68"]

The transition from turn-based to real time battles was a little off-putting. Also, the story and the characters were not as appealing as the previous instalments.

Again, I kind of have to disagree. *SPOILERS AHEAD* The idea that the "villan' was trying to separate man being tied down to these gods made him sort of like a hero and you more like a villan. It was one of the few RPG villans who actually had a reason he had to be evil to try to accomplish what he was doing.

That wasnt what happened at all. He tried to get the power for himself, so that he could rule everyone. And then he fused with a super evil dude at the end as well.

I remember there was more to it then that, I beat it when it came out though and have not since, so I can't say it factually, but I do remember being impressed by how it was handled. Still, its better then fighting a tiny bug that was the destroyer of worlds and ending up being a dream like in FFX. And then FFVIII was just a hurricane of cluster****. So its not the worst by far.
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frostybanana

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#18 frostybanana
Member since 2010 • 5523 Posts

13 was just hated because the people didnt play far enough to get to the good bits, hell i almost didnt.firebolt53

No? I finished the game in two weeks and it was a terribly flawed game. Besides which, you shouldn't have to wait 20 hours for a game to pick up. In terms of pacing and narrative that game was one of the worst high budget games I've ever played.

As for FF12.. Well, I had a few problems with it. Gameplay-wise, I felt like it lacked a certain flash needed to engage the player visually. I think of FF12 and FF13 being at opposite ends of the spectrum in that regard where FF13 was all flash and FF12 was all substance. It was a unique and innovative system for sure. And I definitely appreciate what they were trying to do. It fell just a tad bit flat because it was a bit slow and wasn't very flashy.

Another issue is the story. Political centered or not, the story was bland, predictable and boring. Ididn't like the characters either and that's huge in any RPG. I guess that's a bit subjective but I felt like they did a poor job endearing the characters to the player. Oh and that little twist they had at the end... I mean wow. I saw that coming after the first hour.

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LegatoSkyheart

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#19 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts
It felt unoriginal to me. Every Final Fantasy I played before FF12 had a different world and a different setting (at least it felt like it) when I saw and heard that FF12 was set in the world of Ivalace I was immediatly uninterested. If I want to be in Ivalace I'd play Tatics.
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BuryMe

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#20 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts

It had a really boring story, the characters were incredibly generic, and the battle system sucked.

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110million

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#21 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
There is a lot of hate in this thread as expected, since it seemed to be that kind of game. That said, it was funny that FF13 is everything that FF12 is not, yet it gets even more hate.
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shalashaska88

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#22 shalashaska88
Member since 2005 • 3198 Posts
The battle system is just too radical of a change for me. And the whole feeling of MMO-ish setting makes it even less appealing. Spent 5 hours, and just gave up trying to like the game. And GOD i hated the license system.
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kussese

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#23 kussese
Member since 2008 • 1555 Posts
[QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]It felt unoriginal to me. Every Final Fantasy I played before FF12 had a different world and a different setting (at least it felt like it) when I saw and heard that FF12 was set in the world of Ivalace I was immediatly uninterested. If I want to be in Ivalace I'd play Tatics.

Honestly, I've played both, and while they're technically the same world, they don't really have that much in common. Sure, they both have the same races, guilds, and judges, but that's about as far as the similarities go.
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BuryMe

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#24 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts

13 was just hated because the people didnt play far enough to get to the good bits, hell i almost didnt.firebolt53
That's not really a point in its favour, is it?

I haven't played the game yet, but I've heard FF13 gets good about 25 hours in. So you have to play for more than a full day before it starts being fun? That's not a ppoint in its favour.

Video games exist for pleasure and enjoyment. It should take a huge investment of time before it starts being fun.

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campzor

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#25 campzor
Member since 2004 • 34932 Posts

I understand why people might not have like FF13, FFX, etc, but I dont understand how they can hate FF12.

Does it have towns- got it

Open World- got It

Tons of side quests- got it

A load of dungeons- got it

So why is it that there are many FF fans that were not pleased with this game? It had all of the things that they wanted (non linear, exploration, innovative gameplay). How could this game be possibly be hated on?

gaming25
has those things but it doesnt have a GREAT story with a FANTASTIC enemy (sin) and the combat was much better.
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Snugenz

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#26 Snugenz
Member since 2006 • 13388 Posts

I actually loved it, and played the hell out of it. Most characters lvl 99 etc.

Its my second favourite 3D FF after FFX.

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z4twenny

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#27 z4twenny
Member since 2006 • 4898 Posts

meh stories with meh characters, the summons were useless after a short period into the game, the random treasure system and that horrible licensing system. lets not forget the end game bubble requirements that you're left to your own to figure out.

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ULTIMATEZWARRIO

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#28 ULTIMATEZWARRIO
Member since 2004 • 6026 Posts
It is just hated on because it didn't have a traditional combat menu, and people are afraid of change. At the very least if you hated 12 then you have to hate 13, because 13 also had a bad characters (albeit not as many) and story. 12's gameplay was really fun, and when you think about it, 13's was an automated dumbed-down version of the gambit system.
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firebolt53

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#29 firebolt53
Member since 2009 • 670 Posts

[QUOTE="firebolt53"] 13 was just hated because the people didnt play far enough to get to the good bits, hell i almost didnt.BuryMe

That's not really a point in its favour, is it?

I haven't played the game yet, but I've heard FF13 gets good about 25 hours in. So you have to play for more than a full day before it starts being fun? That's not a ppoint in its favour.

Video games exist for pleasure and enjoyment. It should take a huge investment of time before it starts being fun.

Final fantasy is a game reknowned for its story, ff13 doesnt falter at all in this it is a marvel. The issue is that the linear sections drag on, not exactly boring but not really exciting. And 25 hours is probs abit much, there are numerous key points which I thought were superb along the way.
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JJGT500

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#30 JJGT500
Member since 2011 • 217 Posts

FF is boring as it is, I've never in my 20+ years of gaming ever played a FF game from start to finish. Heck the ony RPG that I actually played the entire game was KOTOR. However I did enjoy Wild Arms, Star Ocean and Xenogears but I never did actually 100% complete those games.

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110million

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#31 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
[QUOTE="gaming25"]

I understand why people might not have like FF13, FFX, etc, but I dont understand how they can hate FF12.

Does it have towns- got it

Open World- got It

Tons of side quests- got it

A load of dungeons- got it

So why is it that there are many FF fans that were not pleased with this game? It had all of the things that they wanted (non linear, exploration, innovative gameplay). How could this game be possibly be hated on?

campzor
has those things but it doesnt have a GREAT story with a FANTASTIC enemy (sin) and the combat was much better.

Bahahaha, sin, a fantastic enemy? :lol: Hes barely a character.
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firebolt53

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#32 firebolt53
Member since 2009 • 670 Posts
[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="campzor"][QUOTE="gaming25"]

I understand why people might not have like FF13, FFX, etc, but I dont understand how they can hate FF12.

Does it have towns- got it

Open World- got It

Tons of side quests- got it

A load of dungeons- got it

So why is it that there are many FF fans that were not pleased with this game? It had all of the things that they wanted (non linear, exploration, innovative gameplay). How could this game be possibly be hated on?

has those things but it doesnt have a GREAT story with a FANTASTIC enemy (sin) and the combat was much better.

Bahahaha, sin, a fantastic enemy? :lol: Hes barely a character.

I would disagree because technically we arent actually fightin sin, we are fighting the reincarnate of yu yevon, thats the whole point in the game. It is essentially going against convention and fighting against what you believe in to save everyone.
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BuryMe

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#33 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts

It is just hated on because it didn't have a traditional combat menu, and people are afraid of change. At the very least if you hated 12 then you have to hate 13, because 13 also had a bad characters (albeit not as many) and story. 12's gameplay was really fun, and when you think about it, 13's was an automated dumbed-down version of the gambit system.ULTIMATEZWARRIO
It couldn't possibly be that we just didn't have any fun with the new combat system?

I hate it.

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buuzer0

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#34 buuzer0
Member since 2005 • 3792 Posts

FF is boring as it is, I've never in my 20+ years of gaming ever played a FF game from start to finish. Heck the ony RPG that I actually played the entire game was KOTOR. However I did enjoy Wild Arms, Star Ocean and Xenogears but I never did actually 100% complete those games.

JJGT500

Xenogears definitely deserves a complete play-through, one of my favorite RPG's of all time. It's long as hell though! I think I spent like 80 hours on it when I played it through back in the day. Check out Chrono Trigger too!

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110million

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#35 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
[QUOTE="firebolt53"] I would disagree because technically we arent actually fightin sin, we are fighting the reincarnate of yu yevon, thats the whole point in the game. It is essentially going against convention and fighting against what you believe in to save everyone.

Not really a cast worth saving though, I don't see how people can criticize FF12's cast when 10 had people like Tidus and Wakka, dreadfully awful characters. FF12's may have had less personality, but at least it didn't make me hate them with a passion. I've played just about every major RPG and a wealth of niche ones in just about every gen since SNES, Tidus is still one of my most hated characters.
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deactivated-5b4ca38d5fcb0

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#36 deactivated-5b4ca38d5fcb0
Member since 2008 • 2051 Posts

FF13 was the worst rpg i ever played, time to time i had to change stances to win some battles. It lacked so much.

FF12 was ok, far better then 13.

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Ziek-AAT

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#37 Ziek-AAT
Member since 2008 • 717 Posts

The story was boring, the characters were uninteresting, the soundtrack was forgettable compared to other FF's, the gameplay was pretty cool I guess (This is all my opinion of course).

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mythrol

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#38 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts
I REALLY liked FF12. Most people hate it because of the storyline but if you look into the history of the game, Vash was never in it. The lead designer who was over the game was making Balthier the lead male in the game. SE felt that making a pirate the lead male was not a good idea. Eventually the lead designer left SE midway through production of FF12. The next person to take over the job added Vash to the game and made him the lead. When you understand the history of the game, things start making a lot more sense. I still feel FF12 was the best step forward for a FF game. The world felt connected, varied, awesome. The combat was fun. Side quests were great. The changing weather and landscape was just plain awesome. The only thing I really didn't like in the game was the sphere grid hybrid where you couldn't even see what you purchasing with your points. It was head a shoulders better than FF13 and it saddens me to see so much progress made with FF12, only for it all to be lost with FF13. Oh, and the original director of FF12. . .he's currently making Xenoblade.
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campzor

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#39 campzor
Member since 2004 • 34932 Posts
[QUOTE="campzor"][QUOTE="gaming25"]

I understand why people might not have like FF13, FFX, etc, but I dont understand how they can hate FF12.

Does it have towns- got it

Open World- got It

Tons of side quests- got it

A load of dungeons- got it

So why is it that there are many FF fans that were not pleased with this game? It had all of the things that they wanted (non linear, exploration, innovative gameplay). How could this game be possibly be hated on?

110million
has those things but it doesnt have a GREAT story with a FANTASTIC enemy (sin) and the combat was much better.

Bahahaha, sin, a fantastic enemy? :lol: Hes barely a character.

sin is awesome.
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firebolt53

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#40 firebolt53
Member since 2009 • 670 Posts
[QUOTE="firebolt53"] I would disagree because technically we arent actually fightin sin, we are fighting the reincarnate of yu yevon, thats the whole point in the game. It is essentially going against convention and fighting against what you believe in to save everyone.110million
Not really a cast worth saving though, I don't see how people can criticize FF12's cast when 10 had people like Tidus and Wakka, dreadfully awful characters. FF12's may have had less personality, but at least it didn't make me hate them with a passion. I've played just about every major RPG and a wealth of niche ones in just about every gen since SNES, Tidus is still one of my most hated characters.

To a degree i can see where you are coming from but the underlaying love story brewing between tidus and yuna, it is a poignant piece of story telling and actually leaves us caring more about the characters. In comparison to 12 wakka is miles better than any of them, he was atleast rememberable as the clown unlike the cast of 12 who portrayed no emotion or even intelligence.
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110million

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#41 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
[QUOTE="mythrol"]I REALLY liked FF12. Most people hate it because of the storyline but if you look into the history of the game, Vash was never in it. The lead designer who was over the game was making Balthier the lead male in the game. SE felt that making a pirate the lead male was not a good idea. Eventually the lead designer left SE midway through production of FF12. The next person to take over the job added Vash to the game and made him the lead.

If you look at it, both 12 and 13 had pretty doomed dev processes. 13 had conflicts from two of the devs, I don't remember full detail, but they could not agree on the direction, and the game itself was not even decided until the demo came out, so they had very little actual dev time once the ideas were cemented. The FF13 team also had to develop the engine for all their projects, and every once in a while another team would come and tell them to change something. 12 had the director leave partway.
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Deadbeatcobra

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#42 Deadbeatcobra
Member since 2006 • 1913 Posts

I REALLY liked FF12. Most people hate it because of the storyline but if you look into the history of the game, Vash was never in it. The lead designer who was over the game was making Balthier the lead male in the game. SE felt that making a pirate the lead male was not a good idea. Eventually the lead designer left SE midway through production of FF12. The next person to take over the job added Vash to the game and made him the lead. When you understand the history of the game, things start making a lot more sense. I still feel FF12 was the best step forward for a FF game. The world felt connected, varied, awesome. The combat was fun. Side quests were great. The changing weather and landscape was just plain awesome. The only thing I really didn't like in the game was the sphere grid hybrid where you couldn't even see what you purchasing with your points. It was head a shoulders better than FF13 and it saddens me to see so much progress made with FF12, only for it all to be lost with FF13. Oh, and the original director of FF12. . .he's currently making Xenoblade.mythrol
Yep I totally agree with you, I loved the combat system in the game, it felt more fuild and engaging. Interesting about Balthier being the lead... he was the most likeable person in the game (well to me he was).

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#44 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts
[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="firebolt53"] I would disagree because technically we arent actually fightin sin, we are fighting the reincarnate of yu yevon, thats the whole point in the game. It is essentially going against convention and fighting against what you believe in to save everyone.firebolt53
Not really a cast worth saving though, I don't see how people can criticize FF12's cast when 10 had people like Tidus and Wakka, dreadfully awful characters. FF12's may have had less personality, but at least it didn't make me hate them with a passion. I've played just about every major RPG and a wealth of niche ones in just about every gen since SNES, Tidus is still one of my most hated characters.

To a degree i can see where you are coming from but the underlaying love story brewing between tidus and yuna, it is a poignant piece of story telling and actually leaves us caring more about the characters. In comparison to 12 wakka is miles better than any of them, he was atleast rememberable as the clown unlike the cast of 12 who portrayed no emotion or even intelligence.

That's not completely true. I found Balthier was actually quite charming. The only one who I personally couldn't stand was Vash. But if you read my previous post, even he makes more sense. Also, with FF12 a lot of the interesting character interactions was hidden away in side quests. By exploring. Still, I liked 10. I just wished they never would have given 10's designer the LEAD design position over 13 and complete authority. He was too young and pretentious. FF13's story comes off feeling, "I am awesome, you WILL listen." Very heavy handed. Not good. Nothing is explained early on, it's all story and no exploration for over 20 hours. The pacing is bad. Which is a real shame because the actual world it was based in seemed REALLY interesting. FF13 just failed to use that world in a good way.
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#45 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts

Personally, I think the hatred for the game is WAY out of proportion and has more to do with frustration over a falling franchise than the actual game itself. You have to remember that a large chunk of the modern FF fanbase entered with FF7. However, although FF7 was good, in my opinion, its success was more due to the right game at the right time aimed at the right (mainstream) market than actual quality of the game itself. FF7 is easily the most mainstream, accessble and "casual" of the FF games - although to be fair, it DOES have a lot of really deep elements to appeal to more hardcore fans, but primarily the main features of the game are extemely mainstream/casual in my view.

But having said that, FF12 does have a number of problems that kept people from really connecting with it. First off, the shared teching meant every single character felt exactly the same. They were literally interchangeable in battle which made them boring and you didn't really care about most of them. The combat system was interesting in concept, but I never even bothered using it. I still just issued commands in real time to everyone. So what is the reward/benefit/purpose of the new battle engine if you can easily play the game without it?

I also had a huge issue with the story. I really liked the start of the story and the war between two countries. That was awesome. But then in my game, that story seemed to get completely lost mid game. So much so, in fact, that I actually forgot what was going on and had to force myself to keep playing until something happened that helped me remember. And the WORST part of the story is how quickly they try to wrap everything up in a neat bow at the end. ALmost as if they KNEW they had gotten lost and off track and should just wrap it up as quickly as possible. The ending of the game has you fighting through a maze like building where every floor looks the same and every enemy is the same. After that goes on for seemingly forever, they literally explain the whole point of the story in one scene, then you have to fight all the major characters you've encountered in the game one right after another then the game ends.

So while I really liked the story, I really disliked how the pacing and the plotting of it. That ending explanation and string of plot based battles was just sloppy storytelling.

But other than that, I liked the graphics, I liked the characters and I usually don't like most FF characters, liked the world, etc.

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StealthSting

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#46 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts

I liked it actually. I haven't played 13 yet, but I felt that 12 was a step above 10. The gameplay was fine by me, since I didn't mind the gambit system at all. My biggest gripe with the game must have been the level design--it really did bring down the game for me. Outside of that I enjoyed it, but, that's really as far as it went for me.

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#47 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
[QUOTE="firebolt53"][QUOTE="110million"] Not really a cast worth saving though, I don't see how people can criticize FF12's cast when 10 had people like Tidus and Wakka, dreadfully awful characters. FF12's may have had less personality, but at least it didn't make me hate them with a passion. I've played just about every major RPG and a wealth of niche ones in just about every gen since SNES, Tidus is still one of my most hated characters. mythrol
To a degree i can see where you are coming from but the underlaying love story brewing between tidus and yuna, it is a poignant piece of story telling and actually leaves us caring more about the characters. In comparison to 12 wakka is miles better than any of them, he was atleast rememberable as the clown unlike the cast of 12 who portrayed no emotion or even intelligence.

That's not completely true. I found Balthier was actually quite charming. The only one who I personally couldn't stand was Vash. But if you read my previous post, even he makes more sense.

Yeah, had he been lead, I think one of the major complaints about the game would be gone. I don't see the problem in having a sky pirate as lead. Often in situations like this, the devs say a player may not relate or something, and by letting you be this out of place Vaan, it could feel like its you. Its a complete guess, but thats what it comes off across as. I don't see a problem with taking risks though. And its quite possible to over do a clown. "I'm Wakka YA, I play underwater handball, YA". God that was the worst part of FFX, freaking blitzball. If it could control any worse it would be like playing DDR with a steering wheel.
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#48 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts
[QUOTE="mythrol"]I REALLY liked FF12. Most people hate it because of the storyline but if you look into the history of the game, Vash was never in it. The lead designer who was over the game was making Balthier the lead male in the game. SE felt that making a pirate the lead male was not a good idea. Eventually the lead designer left SE midway through production of FF12. The next person to take over the job added Vash to the game and made him the lead.110million
If you look at it, both 12 and 13 had pretty doomed dev processes. 13 had conflicts from two of the devs, I don't remember full detail, but they could not agree on the direction, and the game itself was not even decided until the demo came out, so they had very little actual dev time once the ideas were cemented. The FF13 team also had to develop the engine for all their projects, and every once in a while another team would come and tell them to change something. 12 had the director leave partway.

While I agree with this, that was the point behind breaking FF13 into two games. To give each director a chance to express his ideas of the universe. While I blame the lead designer for FF13 because it was his game and his story (and really badly done), I put just as much blame on SE. They have this mammoth series, Final Fantasy, and have no idea what's going on with it. They toss a game title in a designers lap and says, "You're making a FF game. Go." The problem is, not very many people are good a designing and creating an entire game world. If I were SE, I'd do WHATEVER it took to get Sakaguichi-san back and in charge of Final Fantasy's. He is a world builder, a creator. He's the father of the first 9 FF games for a reason.
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#49 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts

I liked it actually. I haven't played 13 yet, but I felt that 12 was a step above 10. The gameplay was fine by me, since I didn't mind the gambit system at all. My biggest gripe with the game must have been the level design--it really did bring down the game for me. Outside of that I enjoyed it, but, that's really as far as it went for me.

StealthSting
Gambit system seems to have influenced quite a few games. I'm not sure if it existed before 12 in a major title, but Tales of Innocence and Dragon Age both use a very copy-paste version of it.
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#50 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="mythrol"]I REALLY liked FF12. Most people hate it because of the storyline but if you look into the history of the game, Vash was never in it. The lead designer who was over the game was making Balthier the lead male in the game. SE felt that making a pirate the lead male was not a good idea. Eventually the lead designer left SE midway through production of FF12. The next person to take over the job added Vash to the game and made him the lead.mythrol
If you look at it, both 12 and 13 had pretty doomed dev processes. 13 had conflicts from two of the devs, I don't remember full detail, but they could not agree on the direction, and the game itself was not even decided until the demo came out, so they had very little actual dev time once the ideas were cemented. The FF13 team also had to develop the engine for all their projects, and every once in a while another team would come and tell them to change something. 12 had the director leave partway.

While I agree with this, that was the point behind breaking FF13 into two games. To give each director a chance to express his ideas of the universe. While I blame the lead designer for FF13 because it was his game and his story (and really badly done), I put just as much blame on SE. They have this mammoth series, Final Fantasy, and have no idea what's going on with it. They toss a game title in a designers lap and says, "You're making a FF game. Go." The problem is, not very many people are good a designing and creating an entire game world. If I were SE, I'd do WHATEVER it took to get Sakaguichi-san back and in charge of Final Fantasy's. He is a world builder, a creator. He's the father of the first 9 FF games for a reason.

Did he go all the way up to 9? I thought for some reason Sakaguchi didn't do much after like 6. And the PS1 FFs were certainly quite good.