Why didnt people like FF12?

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] I just really, really hate the license system. Words cannot describe my disdain for the license system. And I prefer the old-school FF battle systems. Going from FFX's, which was excellent, to FFXII's made me want to cry. Didn't like engaging enemies in real time, didn't like moving my characters around in a clunky way, and I didn't like feeling like most of the battle was out of my control.DarkLink77

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="110million"] I can understand not liking it, but what makes it atrocious? It gives you the choice to automate the things you already do, leaving you with the option to do it or play traditionally. Reminds me of people who complain about fast travel in games, its like they want to complain but don't have the self-control to not use those features. Gambit system has been used in more games as well. Job board was not the greatest, but it was just a different way of being able to use equips when you got to a certain point. 110million

I actually enjoyed 12 alot. I just wsaint a fan of hte uber giant maps that served no purpose but to make you walk a bit more.

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="dreman999"] I have to agree with 110 million on this the direct combat system was not bad. But the ability development system is horrilbe. You can't make a non-magic using character and get through this game.....All but 2 skills suck. Though whats over head maybe good, what's underneath is horrible.

dreman999

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="dreman999"] I have to agree with 110 million on this the direct combat system was not bad. But the ability development system is horrilbe. You can't make a non-magic using character and get through this game.....All but 2 skills suck. Though whats over head maybe good, what's underneath is horrible.

dreman999

FF13 was the worst rpg i ever played, time to time i had to change stances to win some battles. It lacked so much.

FF12 was ok, far better then 13.

Robbazking

Are you counting that as a negative?

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="110million"] Didn't use magic AT ALL outside of healing magic in my first run. I did a purely story run, and started one with doing side-quests and stuff more recently. The way mist attacks wasted MP was pretty borked. The Zodiac Job International FF12 is a lot better for that, MP and quickening have their own bar.. and you assign a whole job to a character and they are limited to that licence board. jasonharris48

[QUOTE="firebolt53"] 13 was just hated because the people didnt play far enough to get to the good bits, hell i almost didnt.jasonharris48

I disagree imo one of the most fun FF battle systems.

[QUOTE="firebolt53"]had the worst story to date, the worst characters and the side quests vashkey

Story and characters werent that bad. Though vanile was annoying.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="110million"] Didn't use magic AT ALL outside of healing magic in my first run. I did a purely story run, and started one with doing side-quests and stuff more recently. The way mist attacks wasted MP was pretty borked. The Zodiac Job International FF12 is a lot better for that, MP and quickening have their own bar.. and you assign a whole job to a character and they are limited to that licence board. 110million

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="dreman999"] The fact that they changed it in the new version of the game show how bad it is. In order to have a proper system I would need to import a new version of the game. Sorry, but the development system is bad.

dreman999

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="firebolt53"] 13 was just hated because the people didnt play far enough to get to the good bits, hell i almost didnt.finalfantasy94

I disagree imo one of the most fun FF battle systems.

[QUOTE="vashkey"][QUOTE="firebolt53"]had the worst story to date, the worst characters and the side quests finalfantasy94

Story and characters werent that bad. Though vanile was annoying.

Hate?! I don't recall much hate for this game when it was out.lamprey263

No there was a quite a bit of hate a bit after release then 13 come out and that was the new punching bag. So will be 13-2 and 13vs after. Since some fans want each FF game to be like the snes ones and never want anything to change or be different. FF fanbase is hands down the most multie split group.

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

[QUOTE="vashkey"] Actually, you're thinking of XIII.dreman999

Story and characters werent that bad. Though vanile was annoying.

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

[QUOTE="vashkey"] Actually, you're thinking of XIII.dreman999

Story and characters werent that bad. Though vanile was annoying.

Kinda hard when theres some ff13 bashing in the bord. Hating one game cause you didint like it to make another stand out is just as wrong. So ether keep it FF12 only with ZERO ff13 hate comments or im going to defend ff13. Its that simple.

My main problem was the story and dialogue. It just got too confusing and I gave up. The cast was decent, but not as memorable as FFX I think. The gameplay and exploration was very fun though. The music had some good parts, but in the end it wasn't as catchy as FFX.Mr_Cumberdale

[QUOTE="Mr_Cumberdale"]My main problem was the story and dialogue. It just got too confusing and I gave up. The cast was decent, but not as memorable as FFX I think. The gameplay and exploration was very fun though. The music had some good parts, but in the end it wasn't as catchy as FFX.jasonharris48

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

Story and characters werent that bad. Though vanile was annoying.

110million

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="110million"] You're still wrong about magic being 100% neccessary though. 110million

Game was focused on battle system, characters and story was uninteressting, got bored of it about iirc 10-20 hours in and stopped there :S

also, seriously people, have you forgotten that FF12 is the game with THIS scene (spoilers) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBGbUGryRE you don't even need context to understand you're witnessing excellence in drama.unca_laguna

While in 6, 7,8, 9 and 10 the tactics change thoughout the game. Even ff13 the tactics changed. But with FF12, you just slapped everyone with healing magic and charge and send them on their marry way and they will be fine on their own.dreman999

I don't get the gripes about the license system. yes, its complicated and horribly unwieldy, but that's pretty much par for the course for a JRPG, especially FF. they ALL use ridiculously meta-game means of leveling up one's characters. I really love this game for its plot though. once you wrap your head around the idea that there ISN'T a real main character, you can appreciate ALL the characters without feeling cheated by the early focus on Vaan. also, seriously people, have you forgotten that FF12 is the game with THIS scene (spoilers) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBGbUGryRE you don't even need context to understand you're witnessing excellence in drama.unca_laguna

[QUOTE="unca_laguna"] also, seriously people, have you forgotten that FF12 is the game with THIS scene (spoilers) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBGbUGryRE you don't even need context to understand you're witnessing excellence in drama.110million

[QUOTE="110million"]

[QUOTE="unca_laguna"] also, seriously people, have you forgotten that FF12 is the game with THIS scene (spoilers) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBGbUGryRE you don't even need context to understand you're witnessing excellence in drama.dreman999

Neither FFXII nor FFXIII were bad games at all. Neither were as good as FFIV-FFX, but both were still good games.

FFXII I wasn't personally crazy about, but I had fun with the side quests anyways, and I was okay with the battle system overall, didn't love it though. I just didn't care for the story at all, and the only character I ever cared about was Balthier. The main quest had an average, "meh" feeling, but again, the side quests and hunts had me hooked. Music was alright but forgettable. Oveerall decent game that I wasn't crazy about, but I could respect Square-Enix tried something new since afterall, gamers DO seem to always complain about wanting change (until they actually get it of course and then it's a crime)

FFXIII I really liked. Probably had one of the best battle systems in FF right next to FFX (funny that the two most linear FF's have the best battle systems). It's thanks to the great battle system that I didn't mind the first 20-ish hours of the game. I loved the look and srt style of the world, and the music was great. The story had iit's high and low points, and really could have used better writing, but unlike FFXII, there atleast were some moments I actually managed to care about what was happening. Just wish the game had more post-game content and had a better weapon upgrade system.

Combat by far. Things happened to fast, even on the slowest option. It was hard to find supplies early on, and it was hard to runaway from foes that were going to easily kill your party. Everything else about it was great.

I just didn't care for the characters, myself. FF12 just lacked personality. Character just never seemed to talk one on one, nor shared any problems. I just got to a point to where I just didn't care what happened to them. Plus, there was no real diversity between them gameplay wise. So, it made the characters even more bland. I much prefer playing Persona 3 and 4, over FF12... For me it's the character interaction that makes a JRPG a JRPG....Threesixtyci

Oh god, did not care for that scene the first time I saw it. I know and care for no one there. It was just stuff happening. The Batral of King Caland from DAO is way betterbe cause you meet and talk with the people before hand.

dreman999

see, that's the thing (if I'm remembering correctly), this scene ends up being something of an introduction to the bad guys. we get glimpses of gabranth and zargabaath's conflict, we establish Bergan as the "mr. creedy" of the story, and we see vayne in his finest moment as a political predator; all of it with DAT DIALOG.

[QUOTE="unca_laguna"] also, seriously people, have you forgotten that FF12 is the game with THIS scene (spoilers) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBGbUGryRE you don't even need context to understand you're witnessing excellence in drama.110million

Neither FFXII nor FFXIII were bad games at all. Neither were as good as FFIV-FFX, but both were still good games.

FFXII I wasn't personally crazy about, but I had fun with the side quests anyways, and I was okay with the battle system overall, didn't love it though. I just didn't care for the story at all, and the only character I ever cared about was Balthier. The main quest had an average, "meh" feeling, but again, the side quests and hunts had me hooked. Music was alright but forgettable. Oveerall decent game that I wasn't crazy about, but I could respect Square-Enix tried something new since afterall, gamers DO seem to always complain about wanting change (until they actually get it of course and then it's a crime)

FFXIII I really liked. Probably had one of the best battle systems in FF right next to FFX (funny that the two most linear FF's have the best battle systems). It's thanks to the great battle system that I didn't mind the first 20-ish hours of the game. I loved the look and srt style of the world, and the music was great. The story had iit's high and low points, and really could have used better writing, but unlike FFXII, there atleast were some moments I actually managed to care about what was happening. Just wish the game had more post-game content and had a better weapon upgrade system.

DJ-Lafleur

this sums it up

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="dreman999"] You did say you had to use healing magic, right? When did it stop being magic?

dreman999

[QUOTE="110million"]

[QUOTE="unca_laguna"] also, seriously people, have you forgotten that FF12 is the game with THIS scene (spoilers) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBGbUGryRE you don't even need context to understand you're witnessing excellence in drama.AcidSoldner

subtle bond.

110million

i donno, I always got the impression that everybody in the story kinda hates Vaan for most of the game, but I might just be projecting. it actually makes me like Ashe more if I picture her looking at Vaan and thinking, "filthy peasant"

[QUOTE="110million"]

subtle bond.

unca_laguna

i donno, I always got the impression that everybody in the story kinda hates Vaan for most of the game, but I might just be projecting. it actually makes me like Ashe more if I picture her looking at Vaan and thinking, "filthy peasant"

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="110million"] Are you serious? When did you ever go through an FF without healing magic? :|jasonharris48

you can also finish crysis without changing your suit functions and mgs without using stealth even once, there is a difference between doing it and doing it RIGHT

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] But it's still magic. And your still dependent on it. I know that you need a healer in ff to get though the game but my point isthat in FF12 you had to make everyone the heal to get though it....It made no differance if you had Vaan or Bache in the group because the plot stayed the same and the tactics stayed the same. While in 6, 7,8, 9 and 10 the tactics change thoughout the game. Even ff13 the tactics changed. But with FF12, you just slapped everyone with healing magic and charge and send them on their marry way and they will be fine on their own. Now the gambit system is fine. To hate it would to hate DAO which has a simular system. Heck,both dao and FF12 play like mmos. But what make DAO is the diversity of the characters. You can play itwith out a healer in the group, mind you you have toget a billion elfroots and flask to do it you can still do it. And what make the two game so different is that DAO demands proper ability growth to play the game while FF12 does not

Krelian-co

you can also finish crysis without changing your suit functions and mgs without using stealth even once, there is a difference between doing it and doing it RIGHT

[QUOTE="110million"]

[QUOTE="unca_laguna"] also, seriously people, have you forgotten that FF12 is the game with THIS scene (spoilers) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBGbUGryRE you don't even need context to understand you're witnessing excellence in drama.dreman999

I'll leave you with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5FTJxfV3pc

horrible licensing system.z4twenny

This is what I dont get, the criticism of FF12s licensing system. FFs licensing system are usually too complex and very wacky. The system in FF12 was pretty straightforward and you didnt spend hours and hours trying to perfect what is supposed to be a place to simply purchase powers and upgrades.

Neither FFXII nor FFXIII were bad games at all. Neither were as good as FFIV-FFX, but both were still good games.

FFXII I wasn't personally crazy about, but I had fun with the side quests anyways, and I was okay with the battle system overall, didn't love it though. I just didn't care for the story at all, and the only character I ever cared about was Balthier. The main quest had an average, "meh" feeling, but again, the side quests and hunts had me hooked. Music was alright but forgettable. Oveerall decent game that I wasn't crazy about, but I could respect Square-Enix tried something new since afterall, gamers DO seem to always complain about wanting change (until they actually get it of course and then it's a crime)

FFXIII I really liked. Probably had one of the best battle systems in FF right next to FFX (funny that the two most linear FF's have the best battle systems). It's thanks to the great battle system that I didn't mind the first 20-ish hours of the game. I loved the look and srt style of the world, and the music was great. The story had iit's high and low points, and really could have used better writing, but unlike FFXII, there atleast were some moments I actually managed to care about what was happening. Just wish the game had more post-game content and had a better weapon upgrade system.

DJ-Lafleur

Nicely said. Anyway most people who played FFXIII probably never reached C.11, the exploration from here on contrast very well with the first 20h of game, at least IMO. That said, it sure doesn't top the classic FF but i sure as hell enjoy it anyway and i get my money worth for it seeing its at least 40h minus the post-game content so thats fine by me.

[QUOTE="unca_laguna"]

[QUOTE="110million"]

subtle bond.

110million

i donno, I always got the impression that everybody in the story kinda hates Vaan for most of the game, but I might just be projecting. it actually makes me like Ashe more if I picture her looking at Vaan and thinking, "filthy peasant"

I refuse to allow sympathy for the fictional personal tragedy of a fictional character cloud my hatred for Vaan. so much like the hobo he is, he sits like a gin-soaked eye-sore in the middle of my otherwise excellent FF game.

I feel like I'm chanelling cave johnson.

Neither FFXII nor FFXIII were bad games at all. Neither were as good as FFIV-FFX, but both were still good games.

DJ-Lafleur

I kinda share that sentiment (well I'm iffy on FFIV at the mo), although XII is my second most disliked game in the series after VIII, I can understand that it's not a typical FF game and as such, a lot of people will like it. Gameplay-wise I didn't like a few things. Gambits were ok, but having to randomly find them in chests, or buy them was very annoying. People have brought up DA:O's tactics gambit, which to me is definitely better because it doesn't stoop to that level. It's all there for you to use, limited by the number of slots before you level up. I also agree that there wasn't any real diversity between the characters either. No real individual talent. I also disliked that fiends would just chase you around a map if you didn't want to fight, kinda boring and the huge travelling required didn't help either. Fighting animations weren't that memorable either. Summons were laughable considering how much of a pain they are to obtain.

Story-wise it mostly suffered from pacing. You'd have to wade through 1-2 (if not more) hours of fighting, with no character interaction in between, before getting to a cutscene. And then, it'd be a 5 minute cutscene before you go off on another 1-2 hours treck. Which is why people say there was no character development. Characters were mostly meh, but some had one or two decent moments. I did think Reddas was awesome, mostly because I felt he did in 2 hours what none of the other party members could do in the whole game, actually have a decent story told in a decent amount of time. Of the main cast, I ended up slightly liking Penelo and Basch, still couldn't care for Vaan and Fran, and really disliked Ashe and Balthier. Ashe for story reasons, and Balthier oddly for the reason everyone hates Snow, mainly sprouting hero nonesense (just more eloquently). Really, nothing was more irritating than trekking on a big map, NOT using Balthier in the party, defeating monsters and bosses, only to have him start yapping on about how he's the leading man yadda yadda.

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="unca_laguna"]

i donno, I always got the impression that everybody in the story kinda hates Vaan for most of the game, but I might just be projecting. it actually makes me like Ashe more if I picture her looking at Vaan and thinking, "filthy peasant"

unca_laguna

I refuse to allow sympathy for the fictional personal tragedy of a fictional character cloud my hatred for Vaan. so much like the hobo he is, he sits like a gin-soaked eye-sore in the middle of my otherwise excellent FF game.

I feel like I'm chanelling cave johnson.

I honestly liked FF12 even if it was totally different from FFX. It gave me this feeling of being openworld and explore as you go. I liked the direction of where FF was going, being much more real-time RPG. Yagir Yensa Sandsea, Dhalmasa Sands, Girugevan and the Necrohol of Nabudis and many more places were beatifully created (sorry for the names, it has been a while :P).
Story was boring though and the characters hardly memorable. Haters gonna hate I guess.