Why do people think MS releasing a new console would force Sony to?

If MS released a new console Sony would do the same within a year.

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]MS only got that successful gimmick by copying Sony and Nintendo (ps eye, wii, advertise) they can't innovate so it won't be their success in a new console IronBass

It was a response to MS might get lucky with a gimmick on their next console onlymomentum_god

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]It was a response to MS might get lucky with a gimmick on their next console onlyIronBass

If MS released a new console now it wouldn't stop the ps3 from selling it would struggle to sell at all for these simple reasons

-ps3 would have a far larger install base would get more third party support

-MSes first party sucks, they wouldn't have any good games for it, especially not at launch

-failrate issues in 360 would make people hesistant to buy a new MS console

-it would either be more expensive then ps3 or barely more powerful

-charging for online (alot of people that bought 360 didn't realize they were the only ones that did that, they just bought the cheaper one in store)

-ps3 exclusives keep getting better a new xbox would just make it's mutliplats keep pace since they wouldn't be limited by the 360 anymore

so yeah I don't see how that would force Sony to release a new console and before you say something about a older system not being able to outsell a newer one the ps2 outsold the 360 for over 3 years and 2 of those were after the ps3 released and hurt ps2 sales and ps2 was the least powerful console last gen and ps3 is the strongest if Sony continue to support ps3 the next xbox would stand a chance of outselling it on a yearly basis

momentum_god

[QUOTE="Sir_Graham"]Many people will go to the new system. With each new game costing as much as they do buying new hardware to make available the next generation of games makes sense. Even if some of the games are also on PS3 the new console would have much better versions of them, for example in 2005 the 360 had much better versions of NFS: Most Wanted, NBA 2K6, GRAW ect. than the PS2.momentum_god

] it's a argument against the ms might get lucky on a gimmick on a new system but not much else momentum_god

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]] it's a argument against the ms might get lucky on a gimmick on a new system but not much else IronBass

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="Sir_Graham"]Many people will go to the new system. With each new game costing as much as they do buying new hardware to make available the next generation of games makes sense. Even if some of the games are also on PS3 the new console would have much better versions of them, for example in 2005 the 360 had much better versions of NFS: Most Wanted, NBA 2K6, GRAW ect. than the PS2.Sir_Graham

Crytek is a horrible source it won't be anywhere near that lol

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"] Kinect is a gimmick. its a cool gimmick but no blockbuster games use it. it wont extent the x360 lifespan significantly.themyth01

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I agree, but if Kinect and its software sells, that's all Microsoft will care about. I figure it will keep them going for another year or two.

Bigboi500

Crytek is a horrible source it won't be anywhere near that lolmomentum_god

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]Crytek is a horrible source it won't be anywhere near that lolSir_Graham

[QUOTE="I-Scarface-I"]

Microsoft would start the new gen. People want whats new.

You think people are going to want that old PS3 that came out in 2006 or that new Xbox 720? A better product means nothing. Plenty of PS2 owners upgraded to 360 just because it was the new kid on the block.

CwlHeddwyn

Whats the point of this thread? Of course if MS released a new console sony would immediatly. Are you not aware of what happened this gen, where sony in the beginiing got slaughtered? Even though they managed to recover do you think they will let it happen again? This gen is all about graphics or motion controls:(, Kinect and the Wii pretty much has motion controls covered so sony has to have blockbuster games with great gfx. It would be like the wii case for COD; where the xbox 720, wii and ps3 each get different versions. The way this gen has become people would leave in droves to play that COD with superior graphics of MS console and thats just COD.

Whats the point of this thread? Of course if MS released a new console sony would immediatly. Are you not aware of what happened this gen, where sony in the beginiing got slaughtered? Even though they managed to recover do you think they will let it happen again? This gen is all about graphics or motion controls:(, Kinect and the Wii pretty much has motion controls covered so sony has to have blockbuster games with great gfx. It would be like the wii case for COD; where the xbox 720, wii and ps3 each get different versions. The way this gen has become people would leave in droves to play that COD with superior graphics of MS console and thats just COD.

NanoMan88

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"][QUOTE="I-Scarface-I"]

Microsoft would start the new gen. People want whats new.

You think people are going to want that old PS3 that came out in 2006 or that new Xbox 720? A better product means nothing. Plenty of PS2 owners upgraded to 360 just because it was the new kid on the block.

WilliamRLBaker

I don't think that it would.

A new Xbox console would still have to compete with a $200 PS3 and continued exclusives.

I believe graphics have reached "good enough" for most gamers. It isn't like previous gens. Sony could keep selling the PS3 as a home entertainment system.

I don't think that it would.

A new Xbox console would still have to compete with a $200 PS3 and continued exclusives.

I believe graphics have reached "good enough" for most gamers. It isn't like previous gens. Sony could keep selling the PS3 as a home entertainment system.dc337

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]Because the one year head start the 360 had was a huge advantage. Why would Sony let them have this advantage again? Learn from your mistakes or get you ass kicked the same way over and over.momentum_god

The next Xbox would be near the end of it's life in five years? And what are you basing this off of?

[QUOTE="dc337"]

I don't think that it would.

A new Xbox console would still have to compete with a $200 PS3 and continued exclusives.

I believe graphics have reached "good enough" for most gamers. It isn't like previous gens. Sony could keep selling the PS3 as a home entertainment system.momentum_god

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]

[QUOTE="dc337"]

I don't think that it would.

A new Xbox console would still have to compete with a $200 PS3 and continued exclusives.

I believe graphics have reached "good enough" for most gamers. It isn't like previous gens. Sony could keep selling the PS3 as a home entertainment system.dc337

Not only that but ps3 exclusives keep getting better, it's not even close to it's limit yet, every batch of exclusives looks and has more advanced things in it then the last

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]considering how much tech has advanced, releasing a new console would still be pretty affordable, right now probably a good chunk of the cost to manufacture it is materials/fabrication and not so much the technology behind it is expensive any more... a $300 system is reasonable that could easily do 1080p and be close to crysis level graphics, it might be a stretch but if they went with $450 again it would deifinitly hit that crysis level mark, people that think RROD was because M$ rushed the console and was cheap don't realize it was an engineering materials problem and it was too late to fix once they finalized and shipped things, a total redesign of the chip was necessary most 3rd party games would likely come out for both, and the new ssystem would stomp all over the old system, i think since we've gone a bit further then normal the tech would easily be a bigger jump then going from ps2->ps3, so in the end to stay competative sony would likely follow and release the next console, what i don't think is going ot happen is any radical new hardware, if they take what they have and scale it up for the most part its less to learn and you just end up wit hmore resources of what you already know how to use.momentum_god

and secondly if you can provide links to anything you mentioned about the 360 launch that would be nice, I'm trying to find the link about the soldering i saw a while back, it said the metal they used for the pin connections warped under heat after long periods of time, nvidia and ati both had the same problem and made new processors witha different material but it caused a performance hit, you can't change the specs of a console so microsoft was stuck with it and it costed them i think lik 1billion in end user repairs. This makes a lot more since any way compared to what your idea of what M$ did, seeing as it took them 3 years to fix, it wasn't cheap parts that were causing the problem if they were eating repair costs and could have just fixed it you don't think they would have?

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]considering how much tech has advanced, releasing a new console would still be pretty affordable, right now probably a good chunk of the cost to manufacture it is materials/fabrication and not so much the technology behind it is expensive any more... a $300 system is reasonable that could easily do 1080p and be close to crysis level graphics, it might be a stretch but if they went with $450 again it would deifinitly hit that crysis level mark, people that think RROD was because M$ rushed the console and was cheap don't realize it was an engineering materials problem and it was too late to fix once they finalized and shipped things, a total redesign of the chip was necessary most 3rd party games would likely come out for both, and the new ssystem would stomp all over the old system, i think since we've gone a bit further then normal the tech would easily be a bigger jump then going from ps2->ps3, so in the end to stay competative sony would likely follow and release the next console, what i don't think is going ot happen is any radical new hardware, if they take what they have and scale it up for the most part its less to learn and you just end up wit hmore resources of what you already know how to use.savagetwinkie

and secondly if you can provide links to anything you mentioned about the 360 launch that would be nice, I'm trying to find the link about the soldering i saw a while back, it said the metal they used for the pin connections warped under heat after long periods of time, nvidia and ati both had the same problem and made new processors witha different material but it caused a performance hit, you can't change the specs of a console so microsoft was stuck with it and it costed them i think lik 1billion in end user repairs. This makes a lot more since any way compared to what your idea of what M$ did, seeing as it took them 3 years to fix, it wasn't cheap parts that were causing the problem if they were eating repair costs and could have just fixed it you don't think they would have?

ok first of all ms and sony are not releasing a new console til 2013-2014 and by then it be too late any way cause take a look at my calculations

this gen for wii lasted 5-6 yrs right

wii2/cafe launches supposeively in 2012 -xmas,

2016-7 3 yrs after they do get their next ones out ,

nintnedo will have somthing on par or better for less lol

as crazy as it seams i think nintendo had this planned , and planned good

set ms and sony up to run a 10 yr life cycle by jumping on the wii bandwagon with its motion ,

theyll want to try to get more of thato ut and plus sonys got ngp to worry about atm , to care for a new ps , psphone as well so , their booked ,

microsoft is working on windows 8 righ now ,lo l so their booked with kenict and such

they want to capitalize on that when its too late i told ya this a long time ago ms waited to long and look whats gonna happen is nintnedos releasing this thing itll sell because of the cheaper price itll launch at then 360 ps3 did and have a touch screen -full bc etc , better zelda games better everything , could we have a mariokart with more then 15 drivers on trakc now ya maybe ,

or 3rd party games like gta ya we can have them to

see nintendos on the right pathway ,

innovation was key for wii -wii was a test run just like nes was , this would be the super wii

hopfully the 7th console isnt a jinx cause hten theyll start over with this again so ya ,

they aint stupid

its called persistance some thing sega never had they kept going on one path , this is why nintnedo is still here today they see somthing wrong they fix it ,

or try to and sometimes it paid off -wii ds gba some times it didnt-n64 gc but the important thing is never giving up

and trust me iwata said -they wont stop til they can no longer make games !!!! dead ? blind or what ever , theyll stay

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

[QUOTE="momentum_god"] There were so many things wrong with the launch 360 it was sad, MS only tested it under ideal circumstances with perfect solders that you just can't get in mass product, the cooling system was inadequate the parts were substandard and then they ordered everything from the lowest bidder and cobbled it together, as for the consoles you could get a slightly better preforming one thats easier to develop for then ps3 (ps3 exclusives are still more advanced then stuff like crysis just devote less to looking shiny and more to gameplay) for around 400 but without a significant difference in power the incentive to upgrade is lower and with a higher price point the incentive to get it is lower again so I just don't see how MS releasing a console anytime soon would stop the ps3 from selling momentum_god

and secondly if you can provide links to anything you mentioned about the 360 launch that would be nice, I'm trying to find the link about the soldering i saw a while back, it said the metal they used for the pin connections warped under heat after long periods of time, nvidia and ati both had the same problem and made new processors witha different material but it caused a performance hit, you can't change the specs of a console so microsoft was stuck with it and it costed them i think lik 1billion in end user repairs. This makes a lot more since any way compared to what your idea of what M$ did, seeing as it took them 3 years to fix, it wasn't cheap parts that were causing the problem if they were eating repair costs and could have just fixed it you don't think they would have?

crysis is infintily more advanced then anything on consoles, PC that is, and ps3 hit its max just like 360 did, all they are doing now is tweaking how they use resources so the game appears to look better and for the most part some improvements in effieciency but its not going to make big improvements at all...

looking into the RROD problem it looks more like they tried to engineer the chip in house and failed at it and then went to ASIC to fix the problem, there is no real confirmation on what the cause of rod is but I do believe M$ would have just fixed it if it would have saved them money, so the engineering problem is more likely the case and not M$ being cheap, either way they were stuck with it for a while.

edit: great ai i uncharted 2! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcQ1255LaGE

its a game, like crysis 2 nothing is flawless and because of pathing and other thing ai can get confused, i havn't seen anything in crysis 2 yet ...

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]that bold there... you have no idea what your talking about

and secondly if you can provide links to anything you mentioned about the 360 launch that would be nice, I'm trying to find the link about the soldering i saw a while back, it said the metal they used for the pin connections warped under heat after long periods of time, nvidia and ati both had the same problem and made new processors witha different material but it caused a performance hit, you can't change the specs of a console so microsoft was stuck with it and it costed them i think lik 1billion in end user repairs. This makes a lot more since any way compared to what your idea of what M$ did, seeing as it took them 3 years to fix, it wasn't cheap parts that were causing the problem if they were eating repair costs and could have just fixed it you don't think they would have?

savagetwinkie

crysis is infintily more advanced then anything on consoles, PC that is, and ps3 hit its max just like 360 did, all they are doing now is tweaking how they use resources so the game appears to look better and for the most part some improvements in effieciency but its not going to make big improvements at all...

looking into the RROD problem it looks more like they tried to engineer the chip in house and failed at it and then went to ASIC to fix the problem, there is no real confirmation on what the cause of rod is but I do believe M$ would have just fixed it if it would have saved them money, so the engineering problem is more likely the case and not M$ being cheap, either way they were stuck with it for a while.

MS would definitely try to launch first again because they know that's the only reason they are up at this point

MS would definitely try to launch first again because they know that's the only reason they are up at this point

BPoole96

MS would definitely try to launch first again because they know that's the only reason they are up at this point

BPoole96

[QUOTE="dc337"]

I don't think that it would.

A new Xbox console would still have to compete with a $200 PS3 and continued exclusives.

I believe graphics have reached "good enough" for most gamers. It isn't like previous gens. Sony could keep selling the PS3 as a home entertainment system.momentum_god

actually it does, you sell better hardware costs more which makes the console cost more, ps3 is also has the cheapest processor when considering power versus price, so outdoing it at a lower price just isn't possible unless MS takes a big hit but it will still cost more just not cost the consumer, and yes they have the options but why aren't they doing it with the 360 now, hell they can't even keep epic and bungie, MS obviously isn't as in as strong as a position as you thinkmomentum_god

at some point this doesn't hold true, MOST of the cost of the consoles right now are materials and manufacturing, not the actual technology behind it, if you ever look at technology there is a sweet spot, you can buy a worse processor for not much less making it cheaper but worse price/performance, then you have processors getting better but the price starts to sky rocket because its the cutting edge of technology and your paying mostly for the tech,

and even some cases older cpus are actually more expensive to produce because of the larger farbrication like 90nm, you don't get as many cpu's per silicon wafer so you end up needing twice the amount of materials,

technology has increased so much in the last 6 years M$ could easily produce a console thats completely backwards compatible, thanks to its strict directx api on 360, at a $300-$400 price point that completely dominates the ps3 hardware wise, price/performance, and in features.

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]

[QUOTE="dc337"]

I don't think that it would.

A new Xbox console would still have to compete with a $200 PS3 and continued exclusives.

I believe graphics have reached "good enough" for most gamers. It isn't like previous gens. Sony could keep selling the PS3 as a home entertainment system.savagetwinkie

10x better is a massive overstatement, it would be the difference of a high end pc has now at best, and people aren't willing to shell out for that why would they shell out for next xbox, and again the 360 had massive improvements over ps2 yet ps2 outsold it for over 3 years and that was with ps3 releasing after 1 what makes you think a slightly edge will make ps3 stop selling when a massive one didn't stop ps2 and again ps3 exclusives keep getting better

As long as the "720" could is backward compatible with old 360 games, it would allow M$ to occupy two segments of the gaming. They could capture the hardcore gamers with the high end console at 499.00 and work the lower end at 200.00. This would put Sony in a bind and force to quickly release the PS4 as their hardcore base would melt away in favor of the much more powerful 720.lhughey

[QUOTE="momentum_god"]actually it does, you sell better hardware costs more which makes the console cost more, ps3 is also has the cheapest processor when considering power versus price, so outdoing it at a lower price just isn't possible unless MS takes a big hit but it will still cost more just not cost the consumer, and yes they have the options but why aren't they doing it with the 360 now, hell they can't even keep epic and bungie, MS obviously isn't as in as strong as a position as you thinksavagetwinkie

at some point this doesn't hold true, MOST of the cost of the consoles right now are materials and manufacturing, not the actual technology behind it, if you ever look at technology there is a sweet spot, you can buy a worse processor for not much less making it cheaper but worse price/performance, then you have processors getting better but the price starts to sky rocket because its the cutting edge of technology and your paying mostly for the tech,

and even some cases older cpus are actually more expensive to produce because of the larger farbrication like 90nm, you don't get as many cpu's per silicon wafer so you end up needing twice the amount of materials,

technology has increased so much in the last 6 years M$ could easily produce a console thats completely backwards compatible, thanks to its strict directx api on 360, at a $300-$400 price point that completely dominates the ps3 hardware wise, price/performance, and in features.

There is no such thing as "good enough" graphics. There is always room for improvement for enthusiast. And the enthusiast will be your early adopters for new technology. If the new 720 releases with graphics that rival high end PCs (which it will when its released), many of you would get it in a heartbeat. Its easy to say that something is "good enough" until the newer shinier version releases (think the Iphone). All M$ would have to do is release a new Gears with the console running 1080p, 60fps and 8x AA and you guys would be salivating. Developers should be develop on the new console and have a compile option which creates a 360 level version. This would allow devs to create for the PC, 360, and 720 using basically one code base. This would force the PS3 to the back of the development priority list and almost guarantee that it would get the inferior port.lhughey

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

[QUOTE="momentum_god"] Exactly my point, it would just be a waste for them to release a new console when the ps3 is still so capable and finally at a lower price point

momentum_god

10x better is a massive overstatement, it would be the difference of a high end pc has now at best, and people aren't willing to shell out for that why would they shell out for next xbox, and again the 360 had massive improvements over ps2 yet ps2 outsold it for over 3 years and that was with ps3 releasing after 1 what makes you think a slightly edge will make ps3 stop selling when a massive one didn't stop ps2 and again ps3 exclusives keep getting better

I hate topics like this; you're replying to a fictional straw man.

Try: "Sony won't be forced to release a new console if Microsoft does". Simple, eh?

They would want to release one within a year or two of their competitor otherwise you end up getting a situation where developers are split between two hardware types. Right now almost every game is developed for both systems because the 360 and PS3 have basically the same hardware. MS probably won't launch until they know Sony plans to for this same reason. It will also be interesting to see if many PC developers start to split from consoles soon to stay competitive in their market, this would be the only reason MS would possibly launch before they know Sony is going to.Strakha

good enough changes when easily better is next to it on a shelf, don't get me wrong graphics are great but if they had a game like the original crysis come out for consoles or red faction guerrilla but with more physics and destruction, and even the new bf3, it'll be very apparent that the ps3 can't expand on the gameplay without severly limiting graphics. I know consoles are at their breaking point, I mentioned red faction because they maxed out the memory with that game, and that was a couple of years ago... ps3 won't be good enough when every multiplat looks 10x better on the other console

10x better is a massive overstatement, it would be the difference of a high end pc has now at best, and people aren't willing to shell out for that why would they shell out for next xbox, and again the 360 had massive improvements over ps2 yet ps2 outsold it for over 3 years and that was with ps3 releasing after 1 what makes you think a slightly edge will make ps3 stop selling when a massive one didn't stop ps2 and again ps3 exclusives keep getting better

Of course 10x is an overstatement, but games on a new console will look much better than one with 6 year old hardware. I have a powerful PC, but I don't game on it. I hate PC gaming. Consoles are so much better for my needs. With that in mind, you can't say that people aren't buying high end PCs, so they wont purchase a higher end console. And as far as the PS2 is concerned; low priced items will almost always outsell high priced items. But the PS2 was unique in the fact that it had 125M owners. The PS3 will have much less, so they amount of time that users will stay with the console is probably less. Another thing that has not been discussed is the consumers ability/will to pay for expensive toys. Ipads, Iphones, DSLR's are now common for people who enjoy technology. Its not uncommon for someone to spend lots of money on technology. A 500.00 console is less dramatic than it was 5 years ago, especially if it can play your old library of games. Lastly, Sony was late to release this gen and it was painful for them. They lost lots of loyal playstation owners to the 360. What makes you think it wont happen again.ManicAce

It was the price point and lack of exclusives that hurt the ps3 more then the year so why not put the next xbox in that position, and ps3 would be cheaper then the next xbox and xbox survives on multiplats if ps3 got all the multiplats and all it's exclusives it would be an obvious choice I'm not saying the next xbox wouldn't sell just that it wouldn't outsell the ps3 with full sony support

[QUOTE="Strakha"]They would want to release one within a year or two of their competitor otherwise you end up getting a situation where developers are split between two hardware types. Right now almost every game is developed for both systems because the 360 and PS3 have basically the same hardware. MS probably won't launch until they know Sony plans to for this same reason. It will also be interesting to see if many PC developers start to split from consoles soon to stay competitive in their market, this would be the only reason MS would possibly launch before they know Sony is going to.momentum_god

[QUOTE="momentum_god"][QUOTE="Strakha"]They would want to release one within a year or two of their competitor otherwise you end up getting a situation where developers are split between two hardware types. Right now almost every game is developed for both systems because the 360 and PS3 have basically the same hardware. MS probably won't launch until they know Sony plans to for this same reason. It will also be interesting to see if many PC developers start to split from consoles soon to stay competitive in their market, this would be the only reason MS would possibly launch before they know Sony is going to.Strakha