Why is Nintendo allergic to modern ideas? (online, graphics, achievements, etc)

All Nintendo systems from today onwards will have three things in common: they must have poor online, graphics, and no achievement system. In other words, all of their future consoles will be made with no modern ideas or technology - the "Wii 2" will be another overclocked Wii with slightly beter motion controllers.... and thats it. No other improvements. Look at the 3DS - a system released in 2011 has only 96mb of RAM? Meanwhile some phones have 1024mb of RAM.

I really have to wonder why Nintendo still makes consoles if they can't use modern technology or ideas. Why did Sega become a third-party developer while Nintendo still makes consoles? It should have been the other way around - Sega makes better hardware, and their online system for Dreamcast was incredible for its time. Meanwhile, Nintendo makes better software, so we can plainly see that Sega should have continued making hardware while Nintendo makes software. It appears that the only reason why people buy Nintendo hardware is because of its brandname. The Wii 2 could have 16 megabytes of RAM, 66mhz CPU, 240p resolution, no online whatsoever, and people would buy it in droves because its cheap and says Nintendo on the box. Plus you can play Mario on it

I was hoping that the 3DS would be a turning point for Nintendo. Time to start putting in a good online system, and some achievments to add replayability. But nope, Nintendo is completely allergic to modern ideas, they will continue using candles while Sony and MS expirement with light bulbs.

Thoughts?

Nintendo represents gaming in its PUREST form. They don't care for what others do. They do what Nintendo does. In the mind of Nintendo the world doesn't exist, only Nintendo. For better or for worse they will continue to walk their own path despite the many paths that others may take.

Do people STILL not understand ANYTHING about RAM?

once again...96mb is PERFECT

smart phones have that much RAM because they run all kinds of apps, texts messaging, phones calls and other things like that all at once....the 3DS doesn't need a gig of RAM

Because they get people to buy it so they don't really care.. how many Mario's are out there already?Jonas008

not enough

Nintendo represents gaming in its PUREST form. They don't care for what others do. They do what Nintendo does. In the mind of Nintendo the world doesn't exist, only Nintendo. For better or for worse they will continue to walk their own path despite the many paths that others may take.

The__Havoc

The 3DS already proves this thread wrong so:

Sooo true, bro, only nostalgic fanboys(besides the 10 year olds and occasional senior citizen of course) still buy Nintendo's rehashes and under-powered hardware.

Achievements aren't important at all, the online needed attention I agree but they seem to have the graphics covered and thats before even seeing the 3D effect. If achievements are that important to you then you already have plenty of options, I don't see why another company needs to copy microsoft...

3DS = 96mb RAM, still use friend codes (only slightly less annoying), no achievements, etc.PandaBear86

1. Tech specs didn't matter when the gameboy released good games like Tetris, Link's Awakening, etc. Every Nintendo handheld worth its salt (except the virtual boy) proved its merit a hundred times over. Even last gen's DS proved this against the technically superior PSP.

2. ONE friendcode based on the system. But while quick to point out that "annoyance" they said in the conference playing games online would be much easier to where you do not need to TYPE in friend codes, it's a more easier acquisition to add your friends AND play online. (hindering your topic pointless)

3. The point of a game is to explore and enjoy it at your own pace, not get merits of stuff the DEVELOPER planned just to show off xyz to people who couldn't care less. Honestly it's annoying and I can't erase trophies from games I do not want to be displayed.

4. No need for etc. Negativity is what dooms a gamer. :P

So my picture post still stands.

Nintendo represents gaming in its PUREST form. They don't care for what others do. They do what Nintendo does. In the mind of Nintendo the world doesn't exist, only Nintendo. For better or for worse they will continue to walk their own path despite the many paths that others may take.

The__Havoc

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

Nintendo represents gaming in its PUREST form. They don't care for what others do. They do what Nintendo does. In the mind of Nintendo the world doesn't exist, only Nintendo. For better or for worse they will continue to walk their own path despite the many paths that others may take.

Cherokee_Jack

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"][QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

Nintendo represents gaming in its PUREST form. They don't care for what others do. They do what Nintendo does. In the mind of Nintendo the world doesn't exist, only Nintendo. For better or for worse they will continue to walk their own path despite the many paths that others may take.

DerpyMcDerp

3DS:

vs

PSP:

The point of a game is to explore and enjoy it at your own pace, not get merits of stuff the DEVELOPER planned just to show off xyz to people who couldn't care less.Zanoh

[QUOTE="DerpyMcDerp"]

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"] Exactly. Though complaining about graphics doesn't hold up because the 3DS is graphically impressive, and Nintendo was known for making powerful consoles before the Wii. They can afford to make a bigger upgrade with their next home system because they won't be taking as much of a risk.Zanoh

3DS:

vs

PSP:

You do realize the 3d DS screenshot is a cutscene where the graphical power is being pushed into more polygons for the models and other special effects that are not actually produced in gameplay, right?

This is how the game actually looks, when not in a cutscene:

Besides watch when the PSP2 is announced and looks nearly as good as the PS3.

Nintendo led this gen. in sales because they dared to include new ways of controlling games and now introduces 3D without glasses .

Nintendo takes risks , introduces new tech and is market leader .

MS developed a great online structure .

The other one just follows the old rusted pad of better graphics and more content storage , copy's the online service and achievements from MS and waggle from Nintendo and does nothing new by itself .

Yet this is a typical Sony fan topic ;)

You do realize the 3d DS screenshot is a cutscene where the graphical power is being pushed into more polygons for the models and other special effects that are not actually produced in gameplay, right?

This is how the game actually looks, when not in a cutscene:

Besides watch when the PSP2 is announced and looks nearly as good as the PS3.

DerpyMcDerp

1.What I showed was cutscene versus cutscene

2. Launch game versus a game in a system's life span...and the cutscene was better on the 3DS...

3.

4. PSP2 may have "close to PS3 graphics", but the battery life is going to be drained and once again the point of PORTABILITY is a concept Sony would have a hard time grasping again...

[QUOTE="Zanoh"]The point of a game is to explore and enjoy it at your own pace, not get merits of stuff the DEVELOPER planned just to show off xyz to people who couldn't care less.Cherokee_Jack

But there isn't a huge demand for them...that's the thing. It's a preferential choice, and by preference it is not a high priority just like region free enconding (which was MY preference). Better online implementation was, however, a unanimous priority because the absurdity of multiple friend codes was getting out of hand.

I like trophies, don't get me wrong, but my argument is not "weak". This gen just doesn't know how to have fun anymore without some sort of "notification of accomplishment" going around.

I, for one, won't be buying a 3DS that is slightly better than the PSP for $250...the PSP itself goes as low as $150 nowadays.
And don't get me started on the games, even though a few decent games have been announced...the handheld will have a truckload of shovelware in its lifetime.
I can't believe how much shovelware I see when I check out the DS aisle at gameshops. I've seen parents getting a PS2 for their kids instead of a next-gen console because it's all too expensive...and they plan on selling these to kids and their parents? Good luck Nintendo...

And the hardware...developers are pretty much forced to use the 3D gimmick instead of making better gameplay. Look what happened to DS/Wii...SHOVELWARE galore.
You'd think even handhelds would live up to expectation...but as usual Nintendo lags years behind in hardware. Try to make the hardware as cheap as possible and sell it for as high as possible, $250. That's just sad...I was thinking about getting a 3DS but...really now...96 mb?

This pic sums it up:

Yeah yo go ahead and buy a $250 handheld without games.
I'll be buying an Ati Radeon 6870 for $250...with over a whole GB of RAM...while you finnick with 96mb...

4. PSP2 may have "close to PS3 graphics", but the battery life is going to be drained and once again the point of PORTABILITY is a concept Sony would have a hard time grasping again...

Zanoh

Nintendo killed the battery life argument with 3-5 hours, if the PSP2 can stretch to 3-4 or so, I'd buy it.

Nintendo is doing everything wrong with the 3d DS, they're acting just like Sony with the original PSP. I bought every Nintendo handheld and have loved them, but they really dropped the ball this time, if there isn't a new 2d Castlevania announced for it, I'm never going to buy it, especially not for the ridiculous 250 dollar price tag for something that is quite old technology wise(other than the 3d screen).

From what is known about the PSP2, I'll say that they are doing the right thing, with the dual analogue sticks, switch from disc-based games to cartridge, and an actual advancement in hardware.

Yeah yo go ahead and buy a $250 handheld without games.
I'll be buying an Ati Radeon 6870 for $250...with over a whole GB of RAM...while you finnick with 96mb...

Locutus_Picard

The 3DS has plenty of games announced.

Nintendo is doing everything wrong with the 3d DS, they're acting just like Sony with the original PSP. I bought every Nintendo handheld and have loved them, but they really dropped the ball this time, if there isn't a new 2d Castlevania announced for it, I'm never going to buy it, especially not for the ridiculous 250 dollar price tag for something that is quite old technology wise(other than the 3d screen).

From what is known about the PSP2, I'll say that they are doing the right thing, with the dual analogue sticks, switch from disc-based games to cartridge, and an actual advancement in hardware.

DerpyMcDerp

Of course a castlevania game would be made for the 3DS...that is a given.

First of all, it's 3-5 hours on the highest brightness setting. The battery hours range depending on said brightness setting.

Second of all, for a nintendo handheld fan, the 3D is not the only advanced feature it has for it. It has an analog slide pad, a new pixma gfx card, and of course the 3D hardware capabilities on top of a proven DS model which you consider old tech.

Speaking OF old tech, dual analogue sticks is "old tech", disc based games to cartridge games is also "old tech" and advancement in hardware plays the "old" strategy that I do so remember failing miserably when it came to the PSP vs DS argument...

Yeah yo go ahead and buy a $250 handheld without games.
I'll be buying an Ati Radeon 6870 for $250...with over a whole GB of RAM...while you finnick with 96mb...

Locutus_Picard

Last time I checked, I am picking up Kid Icarus Uprising, Dead or Alive Dimensions, and SSFIV 3DS with Zelda:OoT and Professor Layton in the list of preorders. I ALSO have current DS games and upcoming DS games that need to be played so the 3DS will have games for me to satiate.

Also a $250 graphics card by itself is nothing. You needed to buy or make a $1000-2000 dollar retail/custom PC to put it in on top of the price of games. :roll:

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"][QUOTE="Zanoh"]The point of a game is to explore and enjoy it at your own pace, not get merits of stuff the DEVELOPER planned just to show off xyz to people who couldn't care less.Zanoh

But there isn't a huge demand for them...that's the thing. It's a preferential choice, and by preference it is not a high priority just like region free enconding (which was MY preference). Better online implementation was, however, a unanimous priority because the absurdity of multiple friend codes was getting out of hand.

I like trophies, don't get me wrong, but my argument is not "weak". This gen just doesn't know how to have fun anymore without some sort of "notification of accomplishment" going around.

Well, I doubt the demand for either of those things is "huge", but I'd think the demand for achievements is significantly larger.

Thing is though, it shouldn't have to be a "huge demand" for Nintendo to respond to it. That's their problem: they need to be told a thousand times what they should be doing, and then they usually make a half-satisfying compromise in response. It took them years to admit that the Wii needed a storage solution and then we got SD cards, it took them years to admit that game-specific friend codes are pointless and now we get system-specific codes on a next-gen system.

I'm not saying that the 3DS in particular needed achivements, but it seems like it's going to take Nintendo another few years or even another gen to recognize the demand for the feature.Their next home console needs full modern online integration, and at this point it goes without saying that achivements are part of that.

[QUOTE="DerpyMcDerp"]

Nintendo is doing everything wrong with the 3d DS, they're acting just like Sony with the original PSP. I bought every Nintendo handheld and have loved them, but they really dropped the ball this time, if there isn't a new 2d Castlevania announced for it, I'm never going to buy it, especially not for the ridiculous 250 dollar price tag for something that is quite old technology wise(other than the 3d screen).

From what is known about the PSP2, I'll say that they are doing the right thing, with the dual analogue sticks, switch from disc-based games to cartridge, and an actual advancement in hardware.

Zanoh

Of course a castlevania game would be made for the 3DS...that is a given.

First of all, it's 3-5 hours on the highest brightness setting. The battery hours range depending on said brightness setting.

Second of all, for a nintendo handheld fan, the 3D is not the only advanced feature it has for it. It has an analog slide pad, a new pixma gfx card, and of course the 3D hardware capabilities on top of a proven DS model which you consider old tech.

Speaking OF old tech, dual analogue sticks is "old tech", disc based games to cartridge games is also "old tech" and advancement in hardware plays the "old" strategy that I do so remember failing miserably when it came to the PSP vs DS argument...

Dual analogue is "new" for handhelds, cartridge is new for a Sony handheld and makes it a whole lot more appealing(for me at least), and I'm sorry, but I'm unimpressed with what I've seen of the 3DS and none of the announced games interest me in the slightest(they are like the console rehashes made portable that were on the PSP, rather than the new "handheld games" that were made for the DS and GBA).

[QUOTE="Zanoh"]

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"] This is a weak argument against achievements because you really don't have to pay attention to them if they don't enhance your experience. You can turn off notifications and they might as well not exist. Ultimately the value of achievements is a matter of preference, and it's getting to be more and more absurd to keep saying that no one cares about them and they add nothing to games when clearly there are many people who do enjoy them. If there's a demand for the feature, Nintendo should not be deaf to that demand.Cherokee_Jack

But there isn't a huge demand for them...that's the thing. It's a preferential choice, and by preference it is not a high priority just like region free enconding (which was MY preference). Better online implementation was, however, a unanimous priority because the absurdity of multiple friend codes was getting out of hand.

I like trophies, don't get me wrong, but my argument is not "weak". This gen just doesn't know how to have fun anymore without some sort of "notification of accomplishment" going around.

Well, I doubt the demand for either of those things is "huge", but I'd think the demand for achievements is significantly larger.

Thing is though, it shouldn't have to be a "huge demand" for Nintendo to respond to it. That's their problem: they need to be told a thousand times what they should be doing, and then they usually make a half-satisfying compromise in response. It took them years to admit that the Wii needed a storage solution and then we got SD cards, it took them years to admit that game-specific friend codes are pointless and now we get system-specific codes on a next-gen system.

I'm not saying that the 3DS in particular needed achivements, but it seems like it's going to take Nintendo another few years or even another gen to recognize the demand for the feature.Their next home console needs full modern online integration, and at this point it goes without saying that achivements are part of that.

Well, I doubt the demand for either of those things is "huge", but I'd think the demand for achievements is significantly larger.

Thing is though, it shouldn't have to be a "huge demand" for Nintendo to respond to it. That's their problem: they need to be told a thousand times what they should be doing, and then they usually make a half-satisfying compromise in response. It took them years to admit that the Wii needed a storage solution and then we got SD cards, it took them years to admit that game-specific friend codes are pointless and now we get system-specific codes on a next-gen system.

I'm not saying that the 3DS in particular needed achivements, but it seems like it's going to take Nintendo another few years or even another gen to recognize the demand for the feature.

Cherokee_Jack

I am not doubting there is a significant portion of those that want achievements, but again it all boils down to priority which is what I said earlier...

As for the compromise solutions, the demand for a Wii storage solution was unanimous just as better online integration was. Nintendo acclimated to these, and even though a single friend code is implemented in a next gen system, it will seldom be used at all. The user interface will be added just like it would say a PSN or Xbox Live username. Which means we will add our friends based on our usernames we choose with the underlying FC being the tag.

So one friendcode with better, free online implementation versus god knows how many friendcodes with standard free online is an improvement in my book.

[QUOTE="Zanoh"]

The 3DS already proves this thread wrong so:

PandaBear86

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

Well, I doubt the demand for either of those things is "huge", but I'd think the demand for achievements is significantly larger.

Thing is though, it shouldn't have to be a "huge demand" for Nintendo to respond to it. That's their problem: they need to be told a thousand times what they should be doing, and then they usually make a half-satisfying compromise in response. It took them years to admit that the Wii needed a storage solution and then we got SD cards, it took them years to admit that game-specific friend codes are pointless and now we get system-specific codes on a next-gen system.

I'm not saying that the 3DS in particular needed achivements, but it seems like it's going to take Nintendo another few years or even another gen to recognize the demand for the feature.

Zanoh

I am not doubting there is a significant portion of those that want achievements, but again it all boils down to priority which is what I said earlier...

As for the compromise solutions, the demand for a Wii storage solution was unanimous just as better online integration was. Nintendo acclimated to these, and even though a single friend code is implemented in a next gen system, it will seldom be used at all. The user interface will be added just like it would say a PSN or Xbox Live username. Which means we will add our friends based on our usernames we choose with the underlying FC being the tag.

So one friendcode with better, free online implementation versus god knows how many friendcodes with standard free online is an improvement in my book.

]I could not care less about an analog slide pad(like I didn't when it was a feature on the PSP) it's practically useless for gaming without a second one, the PICA200 gfx card is not "new" it's technology from 2006, and honestly 3d is not all that appealing to me.

Dual analogue is "new" for handhelds, cartridge is new for a Sony handheld and makes it a whole lot more appealing(for me at least), and I'm sorry, but I'm unimpressed with what I've seen of the 3DS and none of the announced games interest me in the slightest(they are like the console rehashes made portable that were on the PSP, rather than the new "handheld games" that were made for the DS and GBA).

DerpyMcDerp

What I just bolded IS the only core reason you have. You are fine to buy what appeals to you, that is your right, but don't go around bashing a system you do not nor intend to own.

I have no doubt the PSP2 will be an awesome handheld, but since it probably won't be backwards compatible with hardware based PSP titles, and possibly high price tag to float with it, I will not be able to afford it.

An analogue pad with a touch screen can do easily what two analogue sticks can do on a system, every iTouch/iPad gamer knows this fully well (even though it is fully touch able). And no Dual analog is not really new even in the form of handhelds. If I recall correctly in my old age, one handheld had this concept and still lost to the Gameboy Color/Advance. I forget the name and the company so do not quote me on it.

Achievements are to keep people playing, but handhelds are already very easy to pick up and play, play whilst watching TV, play in the toilet, in the car, etc. It's not too hard to keep people playing a handheld.SaltyMeatballs

[QUOTE="DerpyMcDerp"]

]I could not care less about an analog slide pad(like I didn't when it was a feature on the PSP) it's practically useless for gaming without a second one, the PICA200 gfx card is not "new" it's technology from 2006, and honestly 3d is not all that appealing to me.

Dual analogue is "new" for handhelds, cartridge is new for a Sony handheld and makes it a whole lot more appealing(for me at least), and I'm sorry, but I'm unimpressed with what I've seen of the 3DS and none of the announced games interest me in the slightest(they are like the console rehashes made portable that were on the PSP, rather than the new "handheld games" that were made for the DS and GBA).

Zanoh

What I just bolded IS the only core reason you have. You are fine to buy what appeals to you, that is your right, but don't go around bashing a system you do not nor intend to own.

I have no doubt the PSP2 will be an awesome handheld, but since it probably won't be backwards compatible with hardware based PSP titles, and possibly high price tag to float with it, I will not be able to afford it.

An analogue pad with a touch screen can do easily what two analogue sticks can do on a system, every iTouch/iPad gamer knows this fully well (even though it is fully touch able). And no Dual analog is not really new even in the form of handhelds. If I recall correctly in my old age, one handheld had this concept and still lost to the Gameboy Color/Advance. I forget the name and the company so do not quote me on it.

And to be honest, I feel quite a bit let down by Nintendo.

It is an improvement, but IMO it just proves how out-of-touch they are that after spending the better part of a gen being far behind the competition in terms of online, even their improved online system doesn't measure up to the current standards. Same with the storage solution.

Cherokee_Jack

The thing is, there is no "current standard". Each online integration is different with each system. For the PC, the "current standard" is dedicated servers and P2P servers, for the consoles it's a dedicated P2P connection. Anything else is up to the developer and console manufacturer on what to implement. We all have tastes and preferences, but ultimately, priority and implementation is not in our hands...Well save for PC gamers because we individually create our machine to do whatever we want.

This is System Wars, I'll bash as much as I please. :P

DerpyMcDerp

Amen to that. And I cant post funny images as I please. XD

That's because Nintendo focuses on that which transcends time. As long as Nintendo offers the absolute best in gameplay, they will remain relevant.

In my opinion they are actually far better than most of the compitition because they aren't taking power away from the player by trying to create a cinematic experience. Call me crazy, but I play games for the game part

Here's a neat article you can check out on the subject.

Nintendo's strategy this generation with both the DS and Wii was breaking gaming down to its fundamentals - The gameplay. It's actually quite smart. Offer a unique, new way to play games at an affordable price, of course with a sacrifice in visual/hardware capability.

Though it really shows when a developer is able to overcome the limitations of hardware - Just look at Super Mario Galaxy, Kirby's Epic Yarn and games on the DS that offer unique ways to play games.

As for achievements, Nintendo recently did comment about why they've never implemented such a system:

"We're not opposed to Achievements. When they create their games, [Nintendo's designers] don't tell you how to play their game in order to achieve some kind of mythical reward. Basically, the way the games are designed is they're designed for you to explore the game yourself and have this sense of discovery. To that end, I think that when you look specifically at games from EAD [the group long led by Mario and Donkey Kong creator Shigeru Miyamoto] and a lot of other games that Nintendo has developed a well, there are things you can do in the game that will result in some sort of reward or unexpected surprise. In my mind, that really encourages the sense of exploration rather than the sense of 'If I do that, I'm going to get some sort of artificial point or score that's going to make me feel better that I got this.' And that, to me, is I think more compelling." -Nintendo's Bill Trinen

Link

That comment is the reason why I'm really a fan of Nintendo. It's the same reason I don't get annoyed that Link doesn't have a voice actor in the Zelda games. Their games are usually designed a certain way so it's a unique experience for each player.

3DS:

vs

PSP: