Why so much hate for FF12 and FF13????

I don't get it really. They will never beat the masterpiece that X was and although 12 was a great game as 13 was, there's no denying the fact that a lot of people dislike them both. So my question is why.

Of course, I can understand why people dislike 13 more than I can understand 12. ;)

I like 12 but not 13,the structure of the game is terrible imo.Arach666

Although not much, im glad to see FF12 recieve a little more recognition since FF13 dropped. It did some amazing stuff that went under radar due to next gen hype.

Although not much, im glad to see FF12 recieve a little more recognition since FF13 dropped. It did some amazing stuff that went under radar due to next gen hype.

shutdown_202

[QUOTE="Arach666"]I like 12 but not 13,the structure of the game is terrible imo.IceBlazerX

The combat was good though,even if I disliked the fact that they pretty much just gave you the eidolons,you should be finding them.

12 is great times.

Ivalice is one of the coolest settings square has ever done. That's mostly due to Yasumi Matsuno...who's also responsible for gems like the Ogre battle series/Tactics Ogre,FFT and Vagrant Story. :)

FF12 has no heart.

The story idea was unique but the characters we boring and detached. It hard for someone to care for a story if can't relate to anyone. Plus, the statue system for abilities and magic is crap. I have to learn how to weara hat???LOL.

ff13 has no soul.

The characters my have personalities now unlike ff12 but no character. All but one we seen before and all but one was well written. Plus, the 20 tutorial you have to go throught to play it. The time it take for ff13 to get good is the time I would have beaten many games plus once you get past the tutorial the story stops.

NONO People only hated on FF12 BEFORE FF13 came out.

[QUOTE="Arach666"]I like 12 but not 13,the structure of the game is terrible imo.IceBlazerX

It wasn't just the linear aspect, when you think about it in FFXIII you don't do anything else than going through a corridor killing enemies and spamming the Auto-command button from start to finish. Battles are more about speed than strategy and beside battles there nothing else that you could call "gameplay".

FFXII was a great game, if FFXIII were a 7/10 then FFXII is 10/10 but what killed it for the fans was the story. FFXII was more about politics and war than about drama and fantasy. FFXIII was more about drama and fantasy but everything else sucked donkey balls, the structure, pace, gameplay everything was sub-par with the exception of graphics.

FFXIII was fun because of the graphics and story while FFXII was fun because of the gameplay but boring because of its story but let's be honest, FFXIII is one game you will never going to play twice. You can play FF IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X and XII multiple times and have fun but with FFXIII is not the same because the game has so many restrictions that it only has one way to be played and that's how the game wants you to play. Weapon upgrades, equipment, items, etc. are all useless. Every stage has a level cap, you can only control one character at a time, summons are just eye candy, the battle system is basically automatic, the abilities have a completely linear pass, you can't go back to prior stages, the game's literally linear (almost a straight line), there's no exploration, side-quest, shops, towns, NPC and there's no interaction with the environment. In FFXIII you can never really get to know the world in which the game was built and if you want to at least know the back-ground story then prepare your eyes to read hours of data logs entries in the menu, this was the job of the NPCs on the older games. FFXIII sucks and there's no other way around it. About FFXII, I have nothing against it.

I beat and enjoyed both games. Though the negative I have for both are them are sorta similer. FF12 maps were way to friggen big for its own good. FF13 maps were just to dam linear. THey need to find a healty middle spot. I am happy though NPC's were lessend in 13. I find them so dam useless and a waster of time and space.

[QUOTE="IceBlazerX"][QUOTE="Arach666"]I like 12 but not 13,the structure of the game is terrible imo.Arach666

The combat was good though,even if I disliked the fact that they pretty much just gave you the eidolons,you should be finding them.

[QUOTE="IceBlazerX"][QUOTE="Arach666"]I like 12 but not 13,the structure of the game is terrible imo.Gue1

It wasn't just the linear aspect, when you think about it in FFXIII you don't do anything else than going through a corridor killing enemies and spamming the Auto-command button from start to finish. Battles are more about speed than strategy and beside battles there nothing else that you could call "gameplay".

FFXII was a great game, if FFXIII were a 7/10 then FFXII is 10/10 but what killed it for the fans was the story. FFXII was more about politics and war than about drama and fantasy. FFXIII was more about drama and fantasy but everything else sucked donkey balls, the structure, pace, gameplay everything was sub-par with the exception of graphics.

FFXIII was fun because of the graphics and story while FFXII was fun because of the gameplay but boring because of its story but let's be honest, FFXIII is one game you will never going to play twice. You can play FF IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X and XII multiple times and have fun but with FFXIII is not the same because the game has so many restrictions that it only has one way to be played and that's how the game wants you to play. Weapon upgrades, equipment, items, etc. are all useless. Every stage has a level cap, you can only control one character at a time, summons are just eye candy, the battle system is basically automatic, the abilities have a completely linear pass, you can't go back to prior stages, the game's literally linear (almost a straight line), there's no exploration, side-quest, shops, towns, NPC and there's no interaction with the environment. In FFXIII you can never really get to know the world in which the game was built and if you want to at least know the back-ground story then prepare your eyes to read hours of data logs entries in the menu, this was the job of the NPCs on the older games. FFXIII sucks and there's no other way around it. About FFXII, I have nothing against it.

Personally I never finished 12 and only finished 13 because everyone said it's going to be better, I belived it until the end :/ I'm not saying they are horrible, but IMO there are a lot of better games around and I tend to play the games I like more than others :S

Because the earlier installments were far better games. XII was supposed to have been a much better game, you can literally feel were the story had been cut short and Yasumi Matsuno was creatively nerfed.

Because the earlier installments were far better games. XII was supposed to have been a much better game, you can literally feel were the story had been cut short and Yasumi Matsuno was creatively nerfed.

SapSacPrime

I didn't hate either game. FFXII wasn't a bad game, though it was very dull and a disappointment for me. The only redeemable factor of this game are the sidequests. I didn't care for any character at all, especially Vaan, screw him. The Gambit system was meh; I didn't bother taking advantage of it, nor did you need to. I was able to beat the game as well as all side quests (get all espers and defeat all hunts up to Yiazmat) by taking advantage of only maybe 10% of the gambit system and for the most part just manually choosing my attacks. Presentation was meh. Graphics were fine but music was very forgettable.

FFXIII, while not as good as FFIV-FFX (Except FFVIII maybe), FFXIII was still enjoyable for me. I liked the characters except Vanille (but even then she isn't AS bad as people make her out to be). The story, while flawed, didn't feel as dull as FFXII's and had it's moments. I actually enjoyed it up until reaching Gran Pulse, where it lost focus. I loved the combat system, I loved the eidiloins in this game, as they were actually useful, and weren't just slightly more powerful spells (like in FFIII, FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFVII save KOTR, and FFIX). Terrific presentation and a great soundtrack. Just sucks the upgrade system was lame, and that side quests could get tiresome due to all the backtracking. NOt a special game but nowhere near bad.

I actually liked 12 more than 10 to be honest. 13 was alright. It wasn't the greatest like my golden 5 FF titles, but it surely wasn't as bad as the X-2 mess.

FF 12 had a great battle system and great world but - the story sucked. Period. Half the time it's some political crap that barely makes sense (atleast to me it doesn't). Hate the stuff. Characters are terrible. I know you are a widow Ashe but why the mini-skirt that's about 3 inches long?! And Fran... go back to Playboy. The music was not memorable and very dull. Graphics were amazing.

How do Vieras reproduce if their entire race consists of females? Question of the century.

FF 13 - super linear. I don't know whose idea was it to make this game super linear but it was a stupid, stupid move. Sidequests were boring. Killing creatures repeatedly is not fun. It was basically a repeat of the Mark system in 12. How about something along the lines of Blitzball (FF X)? Story was decent but some of the characters needed to get shot. Vanille and Serah should die painfully with a time loop. SE should have stuck with the original idea of each character having one magic ability instead of everyone being the same with the Paradigm system. (I think Lightning only had the Gravity magic in the E3 vids.) I LOVED the music in FF 13 : Masashi Hamauzu did a great job. My personal favorite tracks were Snow's Theme and Blinded By Light.

FF X was linear but atleast the story, sidequests (loved Blitzball) and characters were good.

No more crystals you hear me SE? NO CRYSTALS :evil:

I'd just like to think of FF XII & XIII as experiments, failed experiments. Some people found them good sure. The bottom line is good just isn't good enough for the FF franchise.

FFXII:

World and story are occuring in the background of the world you are playing in. Gameplay becomes extremely boring and dull after a while as you will skill your characters the same as it's simply the best an easiest option to finish the game. Barren world. Having the main overall story occuring in the background could have lead to some interesting character development as they aren't really part of the big machine but there is zero character development in the game.

It's essentially an MMO but you are playing alone in the world.

FFXIII:

Only played a couple of hours and I'm really tired of the game. Far too linear and controlled. It doesn't feel like an JRPG, more like an action game. I almost feel offended when tutorials are popping up 10h into the game.

These two games are simply two extremes on opposite sides. One is an open world that is barren with no story or characters, the other is simply too linear with too much pointless info forced on you every 5min. So please, no poor excuses of "Well if you didn't enjoy FFXII you have to enjoy FFXIII because that's game you wanted" or vice versa.

No, I want my JRPGs to be like FF4-9, Grandia 1-3, Star ocean 2, Beath of Fire 1-4, Golden Sun 1-2, Phantasy Star 1-4, Chrono Trigger, Lufia, Secret of Man, Legend of Mana. You know, games with a strong linear story but open worlds with lots of side-missions, secrets and treasures to find and make the world more alive and interesting.

I like 12 but not 13,the structure of the game is terrible imo.Arach666

Same here. 12 was tough getting used to cause it was such a change for the series, but once I got used to it, it was a great game imo. I hated 13 while I was playing it and still hate it today.

FF12 was a solid game, it just dared to be different at a time when people (including me) wanted another FF clone. It was also criticised for having a weak story but compared to this gen, it's strong in that regard. It would have been glorious in HD as a ps3 launch title.

Can't say about FF13 because quite frankly I did'nt have the patience to "give it a chance", if by that you mean playing for 15 hours.

I LOVED FFXII but I HATED FFXIII its was...meh.

12 was not great but it was far better then ff13

13 had one of the worst cast of characters(excluding sazh) gaming has EVER SEEN. I hated almost every single one of them especially vanille and hope. Having to wait 20 hours for a sub par open world where it secretly still wants you to walk a linear path is not fun either.

FFXII:

World and story are occuring in the background of the world you are playing in. Gameplay becomes extremely boring and dull after a while as you will skill your characters the same as it's simply the best an easiest option to finish the game. Barren world. Having the main overall story occuring in the background could have lead to some interesting character development as they aren't really part of the big machine but there is zero character development in the game.

It's essentially an MMO but you are playing alone in the world.

FFXIII:

Only played a couple of hours and I'm really tired of the game. Far too linear and controlled. It doesn't feel like an JRPG, more like an action game. I almost feel offended when tutorials are popping up 10h into the game.

These two games are simply two extremes on opposite sides. One is an open world that is barren with no story or characters, the other is simply too linear with too much pointless info forced on you every 5min. So please, no poor excuses of "Well if you didn't enjoy FFXII you have to enjoy FFXIII because that's game you wanted" or vice versa.

No, I want my JRPGs to be like FF4-9, Grandia 1-3, Star ocean 2, Beath of Fire 1-4, Golden Sun 1-2, Phantasy Star 1-4, Chrono Trigger, Lufia, Secret of Man, Legend of Mana. You know, games with a strong linear story but open worlds with lots of side-missions, secrets and treasures to find and make the world more alive and interesting.

JLF1

FF12 was an amazing game, it has an average rating of 9.2 across all websites so i'm not sure who's saying its a bad game

FF13 on the other hand.. had its problems

FF XIII is a pile of garbage that had next to none redeeming factors

I liked FF XII, sure it wasn't a FF IX but I enjoyed playing it and the license board as flawed as the entire concept is was FAR better then sphere grid and crystarium

12 is great times.

Ivalice is one of the coolest settings square has ever done. That's mostly due to Yasumi Matsuno...who's also responsible for gems like the Ogre battle series/Tactics Ogre,FFT and Vagrant Story. :)

Kandlegoat

FF13 is my favorite FF game, but I've only played 2,7,10 and none of them could keep my attention more than a few hours

I dont know about XIII because i havent played it but i so loved FFXII

FFXII was just a different structure that was either love or hate. FFXIII was just utter, linear, bloated trash. When it takes 20 hours for a game to start picking up, you know there are some serious problems. Throw in probably the worst written characters in the entire Final Fantasy series and top it off with very sub-par graphics, and you have for one of the most boring JRPGs ever made.

FF13 is by far the worst game I have bought this gen. For one thing it is basically a 20 hour tutorial. The combat is decent but like I said, its hard to enjoy it whenever the game treats you like a chimpanzee with alzheimers. The levels were sooo boring. Not only were they linear they were also extremely narrow and they litterally pretty much went in a perfectly straight line without any twists or turns. The music was bad too IMO even though many will say it was amazing. On top of all this you have a terrible story with tons of cliches and poor story telling.

I loved the big maps in FF12 and the combat system. I also enjoyed that monsters were now visible on the map instead of random battles.

What made me stop half-way through the first time though was the complete lack of soul in the characters and in the story line. I was completely uninterested in both of them and it didn't make me want to continue to see what happens. The story line was complete garbage politic talk. The bosses were a complete joke (especially the last Boss. Man I thought that guy took some good drugs.) The only thing that made me replay it and finish it was the gameplay that I loved.

FF13 on the other hand had great graphics and pretty good gameplay. Pretty it was basically the same formula as 12 except now you can pretty much just set everything up and auto yourself through battles. The first 15 hours of the game are a complete linear borefest. The characters in the game are boring and vanille is annoying as hell. The story was once again pretty garbage. I actually started enjoying the game quite a bit when I got to Gran Pulse and started just fighting monster and completing everything required to get the platinum trophy.

XII>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Poop>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FFXIII

i don't get what you mean by no story in 12, its not a character driven story but there is still plenty there. on another note, i didn't like 12, I never found that magic area which made the game feel just right, it was either too easy with gambits, to hard without gambits and fast battle, or horribly slow with no gambits and slow battle (also easy). The combat system feels like it wants to be like a balders gate / dragon age gameplay but just doesn't hit the nail on the head.

savagetwinkie

My problem with the story was that it was focused in the wrong people. It's never really interesting. The only time it starts to get interesting the game suddenly ends.

It's true that the characters I'm running around with aren't actually important for the overall world. They're essentially messengers. I have no problem with the fact that my characters aren't really changing anything. The problem I have is that the developers used that as an excuse to not have any character development in the game. I'm still playing around with them for 80h, the should do something interesting in that time. A lot of people have used that poor excuse for the game in all these years. If the story wasn't character driven as you say then why am playing with these characters at all?

I was actually really excited about the story in this game. I was hoping for an outside perspective in the world from characters like the main characters you play as. It would have been really interesting too see how the characters react and feel when the world changes around them and they can't really do anything to stop it.

Look at Saving Private Ryan. The characters in that film are pointless in the overall outcome of the war yet it's still one of the most moving and gripping war films ever produced. I wanted something like that from FFXII. Instead I got a boring and dull political story that nothing happens in, characters that are life-less and the gameplay of an MMO.

FFXII was just a different structure that was either love or hate. FFXIII was just utter, linear, bloated trash. When it takes 20 hours for a game to start picking up, you know there are some serious problems. Throw in probably the worst written characters in the entire Final Fantasy series and top it off with very sub-par graphics, and you have for one of the most boring JRPGs ever made.

Wasdie

Man, I was with you until the bolded part. Many bad things can be said of FFXIII, but sub par graphics? No. As much as I despise the game it is still easily one of the best looking games on consoles.

I LOVED FFXII but I HATED FFXIII its was...meh.

-Hoax-

Wow some people have so much hate for 13 like if 13 was a real person and did something horrible to their family. I also hear alot of love for 10 but I honestlycouldint stand it mainly cause half was a very very very forced love story that gave me a headace and made me want to vomit especially the underwater "romantic secne" that was in the game. I would choose 13 over it any day of the week. Not to say 10 was bad,but that part of the game turned me off so dam much.

I actually liked FF13 more than FF12....*runs*

But no FF12's political intrigue killed it for me and the License system was horrible. At least FF13 had a slightly more interesting story (to me but it was still a pretty awful one) and the advancement system reminded me of the sphere grid which i liked but it DEFINITELY needed more choices in how to develop your character instead of just 1 line.

FF12 I hated how they reused a world from Tatics I mean Ivalice...to me it felt like Square just litterally ran out of ideas and I hated the stupid license system.

As for FF13, I don't know.