Wii should be $150!

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TekkenMaster606

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#51 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts
I got a box with over 200 NES carts, and 60 or so SNES carts in my garage. Don't own the hardware to play it though. But I feel like it's my right to run that software however I choose. The Wii needs a cartridge add-on of some sort. I'm not rebuying that stuff again.
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STABW0UND

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#52 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
i didnt know it was illeagle o.O well they all fork fine for me :P i have over 9000 roms including every sega genesis,NES,Snes game ever made and most n64 games :P
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monsternachoman

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#53 monsternachoman
Member since 2006 • 1264 Posts
[QUOTE="monsternachoman"]

[QUOTE="Two400"]You shouldn't steal games, unless you already own the license to that game. Two400

It's only stealing if you keep the games

 

Well I assume that's what you plan on doing if you download something.

Like I said you can play NES games without downloading anything ;)  

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Kaosed

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#54 Kaosed
Member since 2006 • 3409 Posts
[QUOTE="Kaosed"]

[QUOTE="monsternachoman"]Why are we getting forced to pay for Wifi when no games even have online?!? DoctorBunny

forced?

WTF :lol:

Yea meaning

hardware not needed they added into the system, pretty much useless just to jack up the price

tomorrow i'll teach you to count to 10

u obviusly dont know how to use a dictionary, but hey, atleast u know hot to count to 10

there should be an iq limit to post in sw, cause hell with such logic how can we disagree :roll:

 

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Tristam22

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#55 Tristam22
Member since 2006 • 1598 Posts

[QUOTE="Two400"]You shouldn't steal games, unless you already own the license to that game. monsternachoman

It's only stealing if you keep the games

LOL. Are you one of those that believes that if you delete a downloaded ROM within 24 hours it's somehow legal? We got another special case on our hands.
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monsternachoman

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#56 monsternachoman
Member since 2006 • 1264 Posts
[QUOTE="monsternachoman"]

[QUOTE="Two400"]You shouldn't steal games, unless you already own the license to that game. Tristam22

It's only stealing if you keep the games

LOL. Are you one of those that believes that if you delete a downloaded ROM within 24 hours it's somehow legal? We got another special case on our hands.

'

Ya in that case wouldnt that be considered a free rental or something? :lol:

"I was aiming at playing the games without actually downloading anything"

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STABW0UND

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#57 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"][QUOTE="Kaosed"]

[QUOTE="monsternachoman"]Why are we getting forced to pay for Wifi when no games even have online?!? Kaosed

forced?

WTF :lol:

Yea meaning

hardware not needed they added into the system, pretty much useless just to jack up the price

tomorrow i'll teach you to count to 10

u obviusly dont know how to use a dictionary, but hey, atleast u know hot to count to 10

there should be an iq limit to post in sw, cause hell with such logic how can we disagree :roll:

Yeah i know hot to count to 10 also.. The self ownage...it hurts dosent it?
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deactivated-57d773aa56272

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#58 deactivated-57d773aa56272
Member since 2006 • 2292 Posts
But when you move your controller so does Link.
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Kaosed

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#59 Kaosed
Member since 2006 • 3409 Posts
[QUOTE="Kaosed"][QUOTE="DoctorBunny"][QUOTE="Kaosed"]

[QUOTE="monsternachoman"]Why are we getting forced to pay for Wifi when no games even have online?!? STABW0UND

forced?

WTF :lol:

Yea meaning

hardware not needed they added into the system, pretty much useless just to jack up the price

tomorrow i'll teach you to count to 10

u obviusly dont know how to use a dictionary, but hey, atleast u know hot to count to 10

there should be an iq limit to post in sw, cause hell with such logic how can we disagree :roll:

 

Yeah i know hot to count to 10 also.. The self ownage...it hurts dosent it?

well why dont u tell me 

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STABW0UND

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#60 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="beldugo"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="monsternachoman"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="monsternachoman"]

[QUOTE="laughingman42"]download games and there will be online play. monsternachoman

Oh you mean the weak selection of emulated games?

Weak? Gunstar Heroes + TLoZ:LTTP + OoT + SMB + SMW + SM64 + Contra 3 + Toejam & Earl + SimCity =/= weak.

Dude get into reality here. Most of us gamers have played the crap out of Mario, why dish out even more $ for the games AGAIN!?!?

Actually, before I bought it on the VC, I hadn't played Super Mario Bros since my parents sold the NES back in '92. And I had never either owned or played Gunstar Heroes, Link to the Past, Contra 3, or Toejam & Earl, and the fact that I'm at college makes having legacy systems here impossible, so no N64 or SNES, meaning no SM64, no SMW, no OoT, and no SimCity. See how it all varies from person to person?

you must have a pc around that can play does for free.

exactly you can just download an emulator and play any retro game you want for free.

 

Heck you can even play old school games online without having to download anything!

yeah you can play them in .swf format but i was refering mostly toward games from n64 and such, hell with the emulator i have you can play super smash brothers online xD

 

and  Kaosed i was simply pointing out that you spelled the word "how" wrong while trying to make fun of someones iq....

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siafni

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#61 siafni
Member since 2005 • 629 Posts

It has the power of an Xbox so yeah it probably should be about $150.lucas_kelly

 

totally agree 

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Lanfeix

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#62 Lanfeix
Member since 2006 • 459 Posts

[QUOTE="Two400"]You shouldn't steal games, unless you already own the license to that game. monsternachoman

It's only stealing if you keep the games

Its Stealing no matter where you keep it or not. also you have explained why it should be $150? if your going to say it has GC hardware your clearly havent bothered looking into what make a wii.
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STABW0UND

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#63 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
wow some of you are really uptight who cares if its "considered stealing" its 9000 free games :D
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Tsug_Ze_Wind

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#64 Tsug_Ze_Wind
Member since 2006 • 9511 Posts

"LOLz teh Wee shuld be $2 cuz it has deh powar of teh NES!!11!!!"

 

 

 

 

Oh, why am I even trying? One of you will probably agree.

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STABW0UND

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#65 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts

"LOLz teh Wee shuld be $2 cuz it has deh powar of teh NES!!11!!!"

Oh, why am I even trying? One of you will probably agree.

Tsug_Ze_Wind
agreed.
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dethroned3

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#66 dethroned3
Member since 2007 • 1104 Posts

Why are we getting forced to pay for Wifi when no games even have online?!? monsternachoman

just don't buy the damn console! u don't have patience do you??

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Iyethar

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#67 Iyethar
Member since 2006 • 4660 Posts
Let's put it this way.  Until people stop standing in line for the opportunity to pay $250 for a Wii, you who are only willing to pay $150 will just have to wait.
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Michael85

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#68 Michael85
Member since 2005 • 3971 Posts
Why are we getting forced to pay for Wifi when no games even have online?!? monsternachoman
Nobody's forcing you to buy anything, kid.
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STABW0UND

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#69 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="monsternachoman"]Why are we getting forced to pay for Wifi when no games even have online?!? Michael85
Nobody's forcing you to buy anything, kid.

He means that you shouldnt have to pay $250 for a wii that has wifi and dosent use it....
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mylsd

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#70 mylsd
Member since 2004 • 1190 Posts
Yeah and all games for all systems should be $30, the 360 and the PS3 should be $300 max.  If we were all living in la-la land
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Michael85

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#71 Michael85
Member since 2005 • 3971 Posts
[QUOTE="Michael85"][QUOTE="monsternachoman"]Why are we getting forced to pay for Wifi when no games even have online?!? STABW0UND
Nobody's forcing you to buy anything, kid.

He means that you shouldnt have to pay $250 for a wii that has wifi and dosent use it....

I guess he's not aware that it does use the built-in Wifi.
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HarlockJC

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#72 HarlockJC
Member since 2006 • 25546 Posts
[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="monsternachoman"]

[QUOTE="laughingman42"]download games and there will be online play. monsternachoman

Oh you mean the weak selection of emulated games?

Weak? Gunstar Heroes + TLoZ:LTTP + OoT + SMB + SMW + SM64 + Contra 3 + Toejam & Earl + SimCity =/= weak.

Dude get into reality here. Most of us gamers have played the crap out of Mario, why dish out even more $ for the games AGAIN!?!?  

I do and have no problem with it...The best part is for the younger kids like my son who have never played these games get to play them now for the first time

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blitzinger123

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#73 blitzinger123
Member since 2005 • 2370 Posts
Why are we getting forced to pay for Wifi when no games even have online?!? monsternachoman
I'll buy it when the price drops haha.
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TNT_Slug

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#74 TNT_Slug
Member since 2007 • 1735 Posts
[QUOTE="azrealhk"]YES, Totally agree, the Wii should be $150. The point is it is selling like mad at $250, and Nintendo is making a profit on every console sold. I would bet both $ony and M$ would loke to sell their consoles at $100 more than it's worth. So are you Lemmings and Cows envious?

Excuse me, but last time I checked M$ does make $75 worth of profit on every 360 sold. Oh, and then they make you pay $50 for live. That's $125 worth of profit, definitely the biggest milkage of this gen.
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taker42

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#75 taker42
Member since 2007 • 1614 Posts
Oh come on, Nintendo could have priced it at $100 and you guys would still be here bashing it for not being $50.
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HarlockJC

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#76 HarlockJC
Member since 2006 • 25546 Posts

[QUOTE="monsternachoman"]Why are we getting forced to pay for Wifi when no games even have online?!? blitzinger123
I'll buy it when the price drops haha.

You have to love the whole wait until the price drops.......Has soon has the PSP, 360, PS3 and now the Wii drops....man soon these systems are going to be free

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dhjohns

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#77 dhjohns
Member since 2003 • 5105 Posts
I also think the PS3 and 360 should be cheaper, but they aren't. :shock:
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princeofshapeir

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#78 princeofshapeir
Member since 2006 • 16652 Posts
Look, it's $250, it comes with a free game, it's fun, it has Zelda, it has an awesome controller, a Virtual Console, and it reads the weather. Stop complaining. The Wii is no PS3 in price; you're getting your money's worth.
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STABW0UND

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#79 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="TNT_Slug"][QUOTE="azrealhk"]YES, Totally agree, the Wii should be $150. The point is it is selling like mad at $250, and Nintendo is making a profit on every console sold. I would bet both $ony and M$ would loke to sell their consoles at $100 more than it's worth. So are you Lemmings and Cows envious?

Excuse me, but last time I checked M$ does make $75 worth of profit on every 360 sold. Oh, and then they make you pay $50 for live. That's $125 worth of profit, definitely the biggest milkage of this gen.

no. they make $27 each console and they dont MAKE you pay $50 for live thats for a full year anyways id rather pay a reasonable price for a superior online experience then have a free infierior online :P
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Darthmatt

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#80 Darthmatt
Member since 2002 • 8970 Posts
Well the wii remains sold out, so a lot of people must be happy with the price point.
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STABW0UND

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#81 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
Well the wii remains sold out, so a lot of people must be happy with the price point.Darthmatt
yeah its the cheapest but at the same time the most over priced as in they make the most money out of the 3 for every console they sell
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Shadow_op

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#82 Shadow_op
Member since 2006 • 4566 Posts
with the hardware that's in it (gamecube) it should be $99, same as the gcironwarrior2
it's 2x the Xbox :| I really don't know how you can be such a fanboy that you won't even accept facts :|
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TNT_Slug

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#83 TNT_Slug
Member since 2007 • 1735 Posts
no. they make $27 each console and they dont MAKE you pay $50 for live thats for a full year anyways id rather pay a reasonable price for a superior online experience then have a free infierior online :P STABW0UND
And your source stating MS makes $27 per console is...? http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/11/16/ps3-loses-up-to-306-per-unit-xbox-360-profits-76-per-sale.htm This media source, and basically every single other one has been saying since november that MS makes $75 worth of profit per 360 sold. You, on the other hand, seem to be pulling numbers out of nowhere.
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Shadow_op

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#84 Shadow_op
Member since 2006 • 4566 Posts
[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Well the wii remains sold out, so a lot of people must be happy with the price point.STABW0UND
yeah its the cheapest but at the same time the most over priced as in they make the most money out of the 3 for every console they sell

So it's a bad thing? Microsoft and sony are losing money but Nintendo makes some on every console they sell. Would you sell your $10K for $9K or $15k? Profits are the most important part of any buisness.
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Hoffgod

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#85 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts
[QUOTE="STABW0UND"] exactly you can just download an emulator and play any retro game you want for free.

I do. Except I do it for the rarer games that won't come to the Virtual Console any time soon. Think Axelay will come to the VC any time soon? How about Turn & Burn: No Fly Zone? Or Operation Europe: Path to Victory? Or Zero Wing? I don't think so. That's what I have an emulator for. Plus, I have GameTap, which gives me access to a lot of Genesis games for free. Only Genesis game I downloaded was Gunstar, and that's because co-op is AWESOME.
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STABW0UND

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#86 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="STABW0UND"] no. they make $27 each console and they dont MAKE you pay $50 for live thats for a full year anyways id rather pay a reasonable price for a superior online experience then have a free infierior online :P TNT_Slug
And your source stating MS makes $27 per console is...? http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/11/16/ps3-loses-up-to-306-per-unit-xbox-360-profits-76-per-sale.htm This media source, and basically every single other one has been saying since november that MS makes $75 worth of profit per 360 sold. You, on the other hand, seem to be pulling numbers out of nowhere.

last i checked was the December issue of xbox official magazine witch stated they are finally making a profit from the 360 at $27 a console though it probably changed since then...
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STABW0UND

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#87 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"] exactly you can just download an emulator and play any retro game you want for free.

I do. Except I do it for the rarer games that won't come to the Virtual Console any time soon. Think Axelay will come to the VC any time soon? How about Turn & Burn: No Fly Zone? Or Operation Europe: Path to Victory? Or Zero Wing? I don't think so. That's what I have an emulator for. Plus, I have GameTap, which gives me access to a lot of Genesis games for free. Only Genesis game I downloaded was Gunstar, and that's because co-op is AWESOME.

also imported games :P i have the japanese neon genesis game for n64 for my emulator :D
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deactivated-5967f36c08c33

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#88 deactivated-5967f36c08c33
Member since 2006 • 15614 Posts

The Wii should be $250.Like it is now.

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Hoffgod

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#89 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts
[QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"] exactly you can just download an emulator and play any retro game you want for free.

I do. Except I do it for the rarer games that won't come to the Virtual Console any time soon. Think Axelay will come to the VC any time soon? How about Turn & Burn: No Fly Zone? Or Operation Europe: Path to Victory? Or Zero Wing? I don't think so. That's what I have an emulator for. Plus, I have GameTap, which gives me access to a lot of Genesis games for free. Only Genesis game I downloaded was Gunstar, and that's because co-op is AWESOME.

also imported games :P i have the japanese neon genesis game for n64 for my emulator :D

What do you do for controls for a N64 controller? I can't stand the keyboard, and I tried using an Xbox Controller S, but it just doesn't work... I ask because I've because I've been wanting to try Sin & Punishment.
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Pepperpop10

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#90 Pepperpop10
Member since 2006 • 1548 Posts
Don't buy it if you don't like it then. Me and like 5 million other people are happy with theirs. If you don't have enough money for one, buy yourself a Gamecube.
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ithilgore2006

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#91 ithilgore2006
Member since 2006 • 10494 Posts
[QUOTE="monsternachoman"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="monsternachoman"]

[QUOTE="laughingman42"]download games and there will be online play. AHUGECAT

Oh you mean the weak selection of emulated games?

Weak? Gunstar Heroes + TLoZ:LTTP + OoT + SMB + SMW + SM64 + Contra 3 + Toejam & Earl + SimCity =/= weak.

Dude get into reality here. Most of us gamers have played the crap out of Mario, why dish out even more $ for the games AGAIN!?!?

Yup and the Mario games have no extra features like online.

What good would online do for Super Mario 64? Seriously? You're just saying that so you can have something negative to say about the Wii.
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STABW0UND

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#92 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"] exactly you can just download an emulator and play any retro game you want for free.Hoffgod
I do. Except I do it for the rarer games that won't come to the Virtual Console any time soon. Think Axelay will come to the VC any time soon? How about Turn & Burn: No Fly Zone? Or Operation Europe: Path to Victory? Or Zero Wing? I don't think so. That's what I have an emulator for. Plus, I have GameTap, which gives me access to a lot of Genesis games for free. Only Genesis game I downloaded was Gunstar, and that's because co-op is AWESOME.

also imported games :P i have the japanese neon genesis game for n64 for my emulator :D

What do you do for controls for a N64 controller? I can't stand the keyboard, and I tried using an Xbox Controller S, but it just doesn't work... I ask because I've because I've been wanting to try Sin & Punishment.

z x a s q w on the keyboard it gets really annoying at first but ive gotten used to it :P i wanted to get a controller to see if it worked but oh well :\
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Zhengi

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#93 Zhengi
Member since 2006 • 8479 Posts
The 360 should be $200 for using cheap parts and the PS3 should be $250 for having no games at all.
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88Ghost89

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#94 88Ghost89
Member since 2004 • 1618 Posts
[QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"] exactly you can just download an emulator and play any retro game you want for free.STABW0UND
I do. Except I do it for the rarer games that won't come to the Virtual Console any time soon. Think Axelay will come to the VC any time soon? How about Turn & Burn: No Fly Zone? Or Operation Europe: Path to Victory? Or Zero Wing? I don't think so. That's what I have an emulator for. Plus, I have GameTap, which gives me access to a lot of Genesis games for free. Only Genesis game I downloaded was Gunstar, and that's because co-op is AWESOME.

also imported games :P i have the japanese neon genesis game for n64 for my emulator :D

What do you do for controls for a N64 controller? I can't stand the keyboard, and I tried using an Xbox Controller S, but it just doesn't work... I ask because I've because I've been wanting to try Sin & Punishment.

z x a s q w on the keyboard it gets really annoying at first but ive gotten used to it :P i wanted to get a controller to see if it worked but oh well :\


How do you play 4 player Mario Kart 64?
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STABW0UND

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#95 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="AHUGECAT"][QUOTE="monsternachoman"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="monsternachoman"]

[QUOTE="laughingman42"]download games and there will be online play. ithilgore2006

Oh you mean the weak selection of emulated games?

Weak? Gunstar Heroes + TLoZ:LTTP + OoT + SMB + SMW + SM64 + Contra 3 + Toejam & Earl + SimCity =/= weak.

Dude get into reality here. Most of us gamers have played the crap out of Mario, why dish out even more $ for the games AGAIN!?!?

Yup and the Mario games have no extra features like online.

What good would online do for Super Mario 64? Seriously? You're just saying that so you can have something negative to say about the Wii.

actually super smash online is quite fun...
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STABW0UND

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#96 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"] exactly you can just download an emulator and play any retro game you want for free.88Ghost89
I do. Except I do it for the rarer games that won't come to the Virtual Console any time soon. Think Axelay will come to the VC any time soon? How about Turn & Burn: No Fly Zone? Or Operation Europe: Path to Victory? Or Zero Wing? I don't think so. That's what I have an emulator for. Plus, I have GameTap, which gives me access to a lot of Genesis games for free. Only Genesis game I downloaded was Gunstar, and that's because co-op is AWESOME.

also imported games :P i have the japanese neon genesis game for n64 for my emulator :D

What do you do for controls for a N64 controller? I can't stand the keyboard, and I tried using an Xbox Controller S, but it just doesn't work... I ask because I've because I've been wanting to try Sin & Punishment.

z x a s q w on the keyboard it gets really annoying at first but ive gotten used to it :P i wanted to get a controller to see if it worked but oh well :\


How do you play 4 player Mario Kart 64?

online.
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88Ghost89

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#97 88Ghost89
Member since 2004 • 1618 Posts
[QUOTE="88Ghost89"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"] exactly you can just download an emulator and play any retro game you want for free.STABW0UND
I do. Except I do it for the rarer games that won't come to the Virtual Console any time soon. Think Axelay will come to the VC any time soon? How about Turn & Burn: No Fly Zone? Or Operation Europe: Path to Victory? Or Zero Wing? I don't think so. That's what I have an emulator for. Plus, I have GameTap, which gives me access to a lot of Genesis games for free. Only Genesis game I downloaded was Gunstar, and that's because co-op is AWESOME.

also imported games :P i have the japanese neon genesis game for n64 for my emulator :D

What do you do for controls for a N64 controller? I can't stand the keyboard, and I tried using an Xbox Controller S, but it just doesn't work... I ask because I've because I've been wanting to try Sin & Punishment.

z x a s q w on the keyboard it gets really annoying at first but ive gotten used to it :P i wanted to get a controller to see if it worked but oh well :\


How do you play 4 player Mario Kart 64?

online.


I meant in one room...
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Hoffgod

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#98 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts
[QUOTE="ithilgore2006"][QUOTE="AHUGECAT"][QUOTE="monsternachoman"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="monsternachoman"]

[QUOTE="laughingman42"]download games and there will be online play. STABW0UND

Oh you mean the weak selection of emulated games?

Weak? Gunstar Heroes + TLoZ:LTTP + OoT + SMB + SMW + SM64 + Contra 3 + Toejam & Earl + SimCity =/= weak.

Dude get into reality here. Most of us gamers have played the crap out of Mario, why dish out even more $ for the games AGAIN!?!?

Yup and the Mario games have no extra features like online.

What good would online do for Super Mario 64? Seriously? You're just saying that so you can have something negative to say about the Wii.

actually super smash online is quite fun...

Wait, they have it so you can play SSB online? How?
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STABW0UND

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#99 STABW0UND
Member since 2007 • 2285 Posts
[QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="88Ghost89"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"][QUOTE="STABW0UND"] exactly you can just download an emulator and play any retro game you want for free.88Ghost89
I do. Except I do it for the rarer games that won't come to the Virtual Console any time soon. Think Axelay will come to the VC any time soon? How about Turn & Burn: No Fly Zone? Or Operation Europe: Path to Victory? Or Zero Wing? I don't think so. That's what I have an emulator for. Plus, I have GameTap, which gives me access to a lot of Genesis games for free. Only Genesis game I downloaded was Gunstar, and that's because co-op is AWESOME.

also imported games :P i have the japanese neon genesis game for n64 for my emulator :D

What do you do for controls for a N64 controller? I can't stand the keyboard, and I tried using an Xbox Controller S, but it just doesn't work... I ask because I've because I've been wanting to try Sin & Punishment.

z x a s q w on the keyboard it gets really annoying at first but ive gotten used to it :P i wanted to get a controller to see if it worked but oh well :\


How do you play 4 player Mario Kart 64?

online.


I meant in one room...

you dont........
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cametall

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#100 cametall
Member since 2003 • 7692 Posts
[QUOTE="ironwarrior2"]with the hardware that's in it (gamecube) it should be $99, same as the gclaughingman42
the fanboy-watch him in his natural habitat as he spouts out senseless babble while the part of his brain that uses logic and reason is completely inactive.

Ha, that reminds me of the squeaker comic from "Ctrl Alt Delete." "A swift, well placed throat punch will silence the squeaker."