Wii --- So how exactly is it ruining gaming?

When people say the "Wii is ruining gaming", they like to refer to the amount of shovelware and the mini-games on the Wii. Of course, all this software on Wii has yet to impact the software that comes to PS3 and Xbox 360. All I hear from Xbox 360 owners is "how strong and great the library of games is!" They always use it as a selling point for the console while also touting the future titles coming to the console, like Gears of War 2.

There is a reason why the Wii sees so much shovelware - because it is the cheapest platform, by far, to develop for. It also has a large install base. It also has the largest install base of casual gamers. So that's why it's going to attract the crappy, el cheapo developers. It's economics. It's not hard to figure out. The PS2 also saw its fair share of shovelware, but it also had a lot of quality titles too from the leaders in the industry because of its good graphics (at the time) and Sony's excellent development tools. The Wii is unique because it is the first console ever to be #1 yet have far inferior graphics to two other alternatives in the industry and that's because, unlike the PS3 and Xbox 360, it targeted a completely different market.

As for the threat that the Wii will change gaming so that most games are min-games (like Wii Sports and Wii Play), this doesn't make any sense. There is still a very large market of hardcore gamers that demand graphics, that demand presentation, that demand gameplay. Tens of millions of them. There is already tough competition in this market that Sony and Microsoft concentrated in. The pie just isn't big enough for a third console to be equally successful in this segment. That's why Nintendo decided to break into another market segment in order to seek new opportunities.

Let's assume that the market changes and TONS of mini-games do come to both Xbox 360 and PS3. What happens? The only gamers that will buy these games are the casuals, the ones who don't mind playing them and consider it just innocent, short-term entertainment. But will they buy ALL of those mini-games? No, they won't. They'll just buy a handful of them and be happy and content. Most of these games will thus be miserable sales failures. The market will be oversatuated with these games. Casuals won't buy a product with mini-games that are similar to something they already own. And....what happens to the millions upon millions of hardcore gamers who don't want these mini games? They just won't buy them, at all. Therefore, that revenue potential and opportunity in this market is lost.

So does anybody really expect the hardcores to be ignored? I sure don't. It's not going to happen. It will never happen. Despite the Wii's success, new games with amazing graphics are still being announced. So this fear, that the Wii will ruin gaming, is an irrational one and there is absolutely no evidence that it is doing so. In fact, there is plenty of evidence that it is helping to grow the industry, make it more popular, more mainstream.

[QUOTE="MagnuzGuerra"][QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="MagnuzGuerra"]

Comparing how many crap games each console has doesn't prove that there's quality control.SolidTy

No, Nintendo said they stopped. You can't stop the crap games from coming out, only limit them. Nintendo has no such limitation's in place this generation. Go read EGM or GAMEINFORMER before you just blindly defend Nintendo. I'm not making this up, you just need to accept the reality of why SO MANY BAD GAMES are flooding the market.

Why don't you go back and read the entire thread, you are posing no new question's that weren't already answered.

EGM and Game Informer looked at the PERCENTAGE of Crap games on the Wii vs. The PSOne, PS2, etc. It was a Blowout.

As far as people not buying those games, you are right, but treading on waters we already discussed. Look, you are a Nintendo fan that doesn't understand what Quality Control means or is. What you need to do is look it up. Save us all time.

I am a Nintendo fan that realizes what's different, you are in the first step, Denial. That's all.

[QUOTE="MagnuzGuerra"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

No, Nintendo said they stopped. You can't stop the crap games from coming out, only limit them. Nintendo has no such limitation's in place this generation. Go read EGM or GAMEINFORMER before you just blindly defend Nintendo. I'm not making this up, you just need to accept the reality of why SO MANY BAD GAMES are flooding the market.

SolidTy

Why don't you go back and read the entire thread, you are posing no new question's that weren't already answered.

EGM and Game Informer looked at the PERCENTAGE of Crap games on the Wii vs. The PSOne, PS2, etc. It was a Blowout.

As far as people not buying those games, you are right, but treading on waters we already discussed. Look, you are a Nintendo fan that doesn't understand what Quality Control means or is. What you need to do is look it up. Save us all time.

I am a Nintendo fan that realizes what's different, you are in the first step, Denial. That's all.

Well, I may not have read the entire thread, but you didn't even read any of my post. I don't know why you're still banging on about the percentage. Listen, imagine this: A console that has 50 AAA-rated games, and then 4950 trashy shovelware games. By your logic, this would be the most terrible console in the history of gaming, since its games are 99% shovelware! But as I hope you can understand, this is not the case. Basically, whether you measure using figures or percentages, shovelware doesn't have any bearing on the quality of the console's library nor on gaming as a whole.

You also still keep talking about Quality Control. This is irrelevant because none of the three console companies practise it. Not Nintendo, nor Sony, nor Microsoft. How do you think Hour of Victory and Genji 2 got made? Did they just sneak past the Quality Control guys with the big stamps at Sony HQ? If the PS3 had sold as much as the Wii, then it would have as much shovelware as the Wii.

You're also quite offensive to me personally - I hope I don't have to remind you of how uncouth it is to debate using ad hominem attacks. It's quite unreasonable of you to accuse me of being 'a Nintendo fan in denial' just because I disagreed with you in a single thread.

because it's winning and cows and lems use every argument possible to discredit it.shoeman12

It's selling, it isn't winning anything. Name one High Profile game that has left the PS3/360/PC behind to go Wii exclusive.

On Topic, Wii is showing devs, simpler gameplay sells better cause more people can get into it, thus dumbing down games at a faster then average rate. Most of the games this gen have been really shallow and simple, I blame Wii, and see absolutly no reason to defend that crap console, if it wasn't selling nobody would defend it. "But but jealosy..." It's the cheapest system on the market, if I wanted a Wii I'd get it, but as a game machine I'd rather buy a PS2 honestly.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="MagnuzGuerra"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

No, Nintendo said they stopped. You can't stop the crap games from coming out, only limit them. Nintendo has no such limitation's in place this generation. Go read EGM or GAMEINFORMER before you just blindly defend Nintendo. I'm not making this up, you just need to accept the reality of why SO MANY BAD GAMES are flooding the market.

chutup

Why don't you go back and read the entire thread, you are posing no new question's that weren't already answered.

EGM and Game Informer looked at the PERCENTAGE of Crap games on the Wii vs. The PSOne, PS2, etc. It was a Blowout.

As far as people not buying those games, you are right, but treading on waters we already discussed. Look, you are a Nintendo fan that doesn't understand what Quality Control means or is. What you need to do is look it up. Save us all time.

I am a Nintendo fan that realizes what's different, you are in the first step, Denial. That's all.

Well, I may not have read the entire thread, but you didn't even read any of my post. I don't know why you're still banging on about the percentage. Listen, imagine this: A console that has 50 AAA-rated games, and then 4950 trashy shovelware games. By your logic, this would be the most terrible console in the history of gaming, since its games are 99% shovelware! But as I hope you can understand, this is not the case. Basically, whether you measure using figures or percentages, shovelware doesn't have any bearing on the quality of the console's library nor on gaming as a whole.

You also still keep talking about Quality Control. This is irrelevant because none of the three console companies practise it. Not Nintendo, nor Sony, nor Microsoft. How do you think Hour of Victory and Genji 2 got made? Did they just sneak past the Quality Control guys with the big stamps at Sony HQ? If the PS3 had sold as much as the Wii, then it would have as much shovelware as the Wii.

You're also quite offensive to me personally - I hope I don't have to remind you of how uncouth it is to debate using ad hominem attacks. It's quite unreasonable of you to accuse me of being 'a Nintendo fan in denial' just because I disagreed with you in a single thread.

What the... I never accused you of anything, I was talking to someone else.

First of all, I realize that gamers are only going to buy the good games, so the percentage's don't equate to much, normally. However, instead of me trying to squeeze off a 4 page article written by journalists, why don't you just go read those. I own a Wii, it's not like I'm buying the Crap, but I have certainly noticed Nintendo's LACK OF support for the CORE these past few months, and that's not changing come Xmas....from my favortie dev, Nintendo.

You are Naive to think that Crap games can be COMPLETELY 100% halted, they can't. There's not even a point to talk about.

You need to Again, read that article(s) that explain in detail what the Lack of QUALITY CONTROL does and is doing. That's all. Bad Games are going to come out, Worse games are going to come out without Any control.

First of all, I realize that gamers are only going to buy the good games, so the percentage's don't equate to much, normally. However, instead of me trying to squeeze off a 4 page article written by journalists, why don't you just go read those.

SolidTy

So basically what you're saying is that you allow your favourite magazines to dictate your opinion rather than actually thinking for yourself.

[QUOTE="shoeman12"]because it's winning and cows and lems use every argument possible to discredit it.Eddie-Vedder

It's selling, it isn't winning anything. Name one High Profile game that has left the PS3/360/PC behind to go Wii exclusive.

On Topic, Wii is showing devs, simpler gameplay sells better cause more people can get into it, thus dumbing down games at a faster then average rate. Most of the games this gen have been really shallow and simple, I blame Wii, and see absolutly no reason to defend that crap console, if it wasn't selling nobody would defend it. "But but jealosy..." It's the cheapest system on the market, if I wanted a Wii I'd get it, but as a game machine I'd rather buy a PS2 honestly.

Name one game that has ever left ANY system to go exclusive, without huge sums of money changing hands. Games go multi-plat, but they don't suddenly become exclusives.

One good example is COD5. Wii had COD3, but was skipped by 4. Now that it's seeing so much success, they're giving it 5.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

First of all, I realize that gamers are only going to buy the good games, so the percentage's don't equate to much, normally. However, instead of me trying to squeeze off a 4 page article written by journalists, why don't you just go read those.

chutup

So basically what you're saying is that you allow your favourite magazines to dictate your opinion rather than actually thinking for yourself.

No, basically what I'm saying is the articles in question are more articulate and completely finished than what I am prepated to do in an internet forum.

There is No WAY I can convince you that Quality Control does a hoot. It's what you beileve, without any real proof in front of you.

Nintendo STOPPED doing Quality Control. What exactly did they stop doing (As you don't believe that is anything)? They stopped something. That's something you can look into.

You need to Again, read that article(s) that explain in detail what the Lack of QUALITY CONTROL does and is doing. That's all. Bad Games are going to come out, Worse games are going to come out without Any control. SolidTy

Do you honestly believe that Sony and MS prevent "bad games" from being released on their consoles? The PS2 had a glut of terrible titles. Thousands of them.

Most of the garbage games weren't released on the GC and XBox last generation because the userbase wasn't there. This generation there are fewer garbage titles released for the PS3 and 360 for the same reason.

Console makers have no reason to restrict such titles because a)some people out there may like them (some people at my company LOVE "Carnival Games" for instance) and b)the console manufacturers get licensing fees from those titles.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]You need to Again, read that article(s) that explain in detail what the Lack of QUALITY CONTROL does and is doing. That's all. Bad Games are going to come out, Worse games are going to come out without Any control. mattbbpl

Do you honestly believe that Sony and MS prevent "bad games" from being released on their consoles? The PS2 had a glut of terrible titles. Thousands of them.

Most of the garbage games weren't released on the GC and XBox last generation because the userbase wasn't there. This generation there are fewer garbage titles released for the PS3 and 360 for the same reason.

Console makers have no reason to restrict such titles because a)some people out there may like them (some people at my company LOVE "Carnival Games" for instance) and b)the console manufacturers get licensing fees from those titles.

You know, you are right. Everyone always points to the PSOne, and PS2, as if I don't know that. The leading System of it's generation will ALWAYS get the most crap games, as the install base dictates to the publishers where the money is. I've known this. Atari knew this. It happened with the NES, SNES, PC, Gameboy, etc.

My point is that the Wii has an ABNORMAL amount of those games coming forth, and to top it off, NINTENDO, the best Dev for the Wii, hasn't been delivering. Is there ONLY BAD games to play. No.

IS there A LOT LESS than I ever felt with the N64/Gamecube? Hell yeah. This is the first year that all year, the Wii 1st party games just sorted rested on their laurels.

People are jumping into this thread, and not reading the WHOLE THING. You don't fully comprehend what I'm saying.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]You need to Again, read that article(s) that explain in detail what the Lack of QUALITY CONTROL does and is doing. That's all. Bad Games are going to come out, Worse games are going to come out without Any control. SolidTy

Do you honestly believe that Sony and MS prevent "bad games" from being released on their consoles? The PS2 had a glut of terrible titles. Thousands of them.

Most of the garbage games weren't released on the GC and XBox last generation because the userbase wasn't there. This generation there are fewer garbage titles released for the PS3 and 360 for the same reason.

Console makers have no reason to restrict such titles because a)some people out there may like them (some people at my company LOVE "Carnival Games" for instance) and b)the console manufacturers get licensing fees from those titles.

You know, you are right. Everyone always points to the PSOne, and PS2, as if I don't know that. The leading System of it's generation will ALWAYS get the most crap games, as the install base dictates to the publishers where the money is. I've known this. Atari knew this. It happened with the NES, SNES, PC, Gameboy, etc.

My point is that the Wii has an ABNORMAL amount of those games coming forth, and to top it off, NINTENDO, the best Dev for the Wii, hasn't been delivering. Is there ONLY BAD games to play. No.

IS there A LOT LESS than I ever felt with the N64/Gamecube? Hell yeah. This is the first year that all year, the Wii 1st party games just sorted rested on their laurels.

People are jumping into this thread, and not reading the WHOLE THING. You don't fully comprehend what I'm saying.

The Wii does have a higher percentage of bad games than the PS2, PS1, etc, but it isn't because Sony has some quality control standards over Nintendo. It's for, unfortunately, a much worse reason.

Developers aren't yet giving the Wii top tier support yet. They're throwing their "B teams" and "B franchises" onto the Wii while the 360 and PS3 receive the top tier support.

But Sony doesn't have people play every game released on the system and then hand pick titles and say, "This title isn't good enough for us to accept your licensing fees".

You know, you are right. Everyone always points to the PSOne, and PS2, as if I don't know that. The leading System of it's generation will ALWAYS get the most crap games, as the install base dictates to the publishers where the money is. I've known this. Atari knew this. It happened with the NES, SNES, PC, Gameboy, etc.

My point is that the Wii has an ABNORMAL amount of those games coming forth, and to top it off, NINTENDO, the best Dev for the Wii, hasn't been delivering. Is there ONLY BAD games to play. No.

IS there A LOT LESS than I ever felt with the N64/Gamecube? Hell yeah. This is the first year that all year, the Wii 1st party games just sorted rested on their laurels.

People are jumping into this thread, and not reading the WHOLE THING. You don't fully comprehend what I'm saying.

SolidTy

So what if the Wii has a lot of crap on it, I can still find about 25+ good games to play on the console and there are more on the way.

Nintendo hasn't delievered? What, are gamers really that spoilt now?
- TP
- Fire Emblem
- BWii
- Brawl
- Galaxy
- Super Paper Mario
- Wario Land Shake It!
- Metroid Prime 3
- Animal Crossing Wii
- Disaster: Day of Crisis

The last two still have to come out this year. Yes, Nintendo has not been delivering this gen, cause God forbid I buy a Nintendo console and buy games that aren't first party!

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

You know, you are right. Everyone always points to the PSOne, and PS2, as if I don't know that. The leading System of it's generation will ALWAYS get the most crap games, as the install base dictates to the publishers where the money is. I've known this. Atari knew this. It happened with the NES, SNES, PC, Gameboy, etc.

My point is that the Wii has an ABNORMAL amount of those games coming forth, and to top it off, NINTENDO, the best Dev for the Wii, hasn't been delivering. Is there ONLY BAD games to play. No.

IS there A LOT LESS than I ever felt with the N64/Gamecube? Hell yeah. This is the first year that all year, the Wii 1st party games just sorted rested on their laurels.

People are jumping into this thread, and not reading the WHOLE THING. You don't fully comprehend what I'm saying.

Haziqonfire

So what if the Wii has a lot of crap on it, I can still find about 25+ good games to play on the console and there are more on the way.

Nintendo hasn't delievered? What, are gamers really that spoilt now?

- Wario Land Shake It!
- Animal Crossing Wii
- Disaster: Day of Crisis

The last two still have to come out this year. Yes, Nintendo has not been delivering this gen, cause God forbid I buy a Nintendo console and buy games that aren't first party!

If you read the thread, I was referring to these past months. Starting with SUMMER, FALL, and WINTER.

So what if the Wii has a lot of crap on it, I can still find about 25+ good games to play on the console and there are more on the way.

Nintendo hasn't delievered? What, are gamers really that spoilt now?
- TP
- Fire Emblem
- BWii
- Brawl
- Galaxy
- Super Paper Mario
- Wario Land Shake It!
- Metroid Prime 3
- Animal Crossing Wii
- Disaster: Day of Crisis

The last two still have to come out this year. Yes, Nintendo has not been delivering this gen, cause God forbid I buy a Nintendo console and buy games that aren't first party!

Haziqonfire

That's what? 8 games, not including the ones that are unreleased. 8 games for its whole lifespan, compared to maybe 1000-2000 shovelwares and ports. Not a very good ratio.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

So what if the Wii has a lot of crap on it, I can still find about 25+ good games to play on the console and there are more on the way.

Nintendo hasn't delievered? What, are gamers really that spoilt now?

- Wario Land Shake It!

- Animal Crossing Wii
- Disaster: Day of Crisis

The last two still have to come out this year. Yes, Nintendo has not been delivering this gen, cause God forbid I buy a Nintendo console and buy games that aren't first party!

chutup

That's what? 8 games, not including the ones that are unreleased. 8 games for its whole lifespan, compared to maybe 1000-2000 shovelwares and ports. Not a very good ratio.

I was talking about this year since SUMMER, but you guys jump in at the tale end and assume through context what the entire arguement is about.

Let me fix this.

[QUOTE="chutup"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

First of all, I realize that gamers are only going to buy the good games, so the percentage's don't equate to much, normally. However, instead of me trying to squeeze off a 4 page article written by journalists, why don't you just go read those.

SolidTy

So basically what you're saying is that you allow your favourite magazines to dictate your opinion rather than actually thinking for yourself.

No, basically what I'm saying is the articles in question are more articulate and completely finished than what I am prepated to do in an internet forum.

There is No WAY I can convince you that Quality Control does a hoot. It's what you beileve, without any real proof in front of you.

Nintendo STOPPED doing Quality Control. What exactly did they stop doing (As you don't believe that is anything)? They stopped something. That's something you can look into.

Nintendo never had quality control. The whole seal of approval thing was simply there as symbol rather than something that was implemented. If Nintendo had practised quality control then the masses of horrible Mario games for the NES wouldn't have been made.

The reason the Wii has far more shovelware compared to the ps3 and the 360 and why it has so much more shovelware than previous systems is that it is far, far easier to devlop for as well as being the market leader. The PS2 was notoriously hard to develop for in its early years as many people struggled with the initial tech, so few could truely exploit it. The Wii effectively works of last-gen technology, technology that not only has practically zero learning curve to develop for, but one that is also very, very cheap to develop for when compared to the 360 and ps3. Thus, the ability to sell at a profit is simply so much more viable on wii than 360/ps3 because wii is both market leader but also very easy to develop for.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

So what if the Wii has a lot of crap on it, I can still find about 25+ good games to play on the console and there are more on the way.

Nintendo hasn't delievered? What, are gamers really that spoilt now?
- TP
- Fire Emblem
- BWii
- Brawl
- Galaxy
- Super Paper Mario
- Wario Land Shake It!
- Metroid Prime 3
- Animal Crossing Wii
- Disaster: Day of Crisis

The last two still have to come out this year. Yes, Nintendo has not been delivering this gen, cause God forbid I buy a Nintendo console and buy games that aren't first party!

chutup

That's what? 8 games, not including the ones that are unreleased. 8 games for its whole lifespan, compared to maybe 1000-2000 shovelwares and ports. Not a very good ratio.

Throughout the 2 years of the Wii Nintendo has delivered a lot of their top franchises and still have more -- this is just nintendo we're talking about, I'm not even mentioning the amount of good third party niche titles like no more heroes, de blob, zack and wiki, blastworks, etc :|.

Also, 1000-2000 pieces of shovelware? :lol: