Will Forza 4 be better than Gran Turismo 5?

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="racing1750"]

Race pro > GT5

razgriz_101

Good point with great supporting argument.

Race pro's physics would eat GT5 and Forza for breakfast.

Great handling model and feels like driving a car it is well done and you know Simbin they make it realistic mind you race pro is a lot more accessible than other entries in the Race series throw on professional and its an immense piece of game and well worth the cheap price it can be picked up for if your not bothered bout the lack of certain features found in forza or GT its fundamentally a much more realistic and better racing game from a physics standpoint.

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

oh what a surprise you chose Tsukuba and a premium car in GT5 :roll:, the track everyone knows Turn 10 mapped out the least accurately. How does this make GT5 a better game again? :|

Inconsistancy

Like you just said. GT5 has the more accurate copy of Tsukuba Curcuit compared to Foza 3. Good selling point to a few exra Japanese racers that race there.

A racing sim with an inaccurate copy of a very popular track, Not a good start.

Tell you what. Give me a car with and a Track you want me to test.

Try giving a track Forza 3 got accurate. Make sure it's a real life track with real life referrences to we can compare all three.

Nurburgring with a Murciélago LP640. I dunno if it's accurate, (since I don't own Forza) But it's the effin' Nurburgring it better be! (and I'm curious) :D

Are both those Cars in GT5 and Forza 3.

I didn't buy all of Forza 3 packs. So I hope there are on the disc.

I also hope T10 managed to get the Ring accurate since someone pointed out they screwed up another track.

Yes, it'll destroy that flop.

mitu123

Um did you read my post? or is it your view of the game not the sales?

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

Good point with great supporting argument.

racing1750

Race pro's physics would eat GT5 and Forza for breakfast.

Great handling model and feels like driving a car it is well done and you know Simbin they make it realistic mind you race pro is a lot more accessible than other entries in the Race series throw on professional and its an immense piece of game and well worth the cheap price it can be picked up for if your not bothered bout the lack of certain features found in forza or GT its fundamentally a much more realistic and better racing game from a physics standpoint.

I got it for £10 in Game a couple months back with DiRT 1 and Ninja gaiden 2 for under £20 dont think i could have gotten a better deal tbh 3 epic games aswell and i need to play race pro more its amazing fun to race mini's on pro handling xD

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Yes, it'll destroy that flop.

avenger2089

Um did you read my post? or is it your view of the game not the sales?

The critical reception.

I love how GT fans try to pretend the driving model is the only part of a sim worth judging, ignoring everything else, like AI, customization, the structure of the career mode, car selection, events, etc. It comes as such a desperate attempt to isolate what GT excells at while ignoring its more janky aspects.

GreySeal9

It isn't the only part. It is however the MOST important part when grading and comparing SIM in my Book.

Tell me, WHat do you consider the most important part about a racing game?

Heck, I'd have more fun with GT3 and GT4 than Forza 4.Mr_Cumberdale

Can't argue with psychics.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I love how GT fans try to pretend the driving model is the only part of a sim worth judging, ignoring everything else, like AI, customization, the structure of the career mode, car selection, events, etc. It comes as such a desperate attempt to isolate what GT excells at while ignoring its more janky aspects.

Blinblingthing

It isn't the only part. It is however the MOST important part when grading and comparing SIM in my Book.

Tell me, WHat do you consider the most important part about a racing game?

I don't think any one element that is more important than all others, but if I had to pick, I'd pick AI. AI is what gives races a sense of tension.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Yes, it'll destroy that flop.

avenger2089

Um did you read my post? or is it your view of the game not the sales?

[QUOTE="avenger2089"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Yes, it'll destroy that flop.

GreySeal9

Um did you read my post? or is it your view of the game not the sales?

The critical reception.

Oh so now a game is judged on critical reception, when its usually the other way around when it comes to ps3 games.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I love how GT fans try to pretend the driving model is the only part of a sim worth judging, ignoring everything else, like AI, customization, the structure of the career mode, car selection, events, etc. It comes as such a desperate attempt to isolate what GT excells at while ignoring its more janky aspects.

racing1750

The physics are better in GT5.

Maybe the extra sense of speed you liked is why Forza 3's 370Z is about 4 seconds faster than its real life counter part on tsukuba.

Oh so now a game is judged on critical reception, when its usually the other way around when it comes to ps3 games.

avenger2089

It's always been like that on system wars. Are you new?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="avenger2089"]

Um did you read my post? or is it your view of the game not the sales?

avenger2089

The critical reception.

Oh so now a game is judged on critical reception, when its usually the other way around when it comes to ps3 games.

The way other people judge PS3 games has nothing to do with either my statement of mitu's, so that's irrelevant.

GT5 flopped critically. End of story.

He's saying that GT had little competition in the 90s and got a big following.So how does it help you to say that the market is crowded now and use 360 games to do it? :?GreySeal9

[QUOTE="racing1750"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I love how GT fans try to pretend the driving model is the only part of a sim worth judging, ignoring everything else, like AI, customization, the structure of the career mode, car selection, events, etc. It comes as such a desperate attempt to isolate what GT excells at while ignoring its more janky aspects.

Fizzman

Wasnt the damage system a total joke too?

No, Because when you hit a section of your car say your rear quarter panel. The entire back section doesn't crumple.

The damage modeling to me tho is a matter of taste

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

Blah blah bah blah blah.
Now that in a DRIVING SIM comparision, We've actually started talking about the driving aspect of things, You are talking as If you changed the topic.

Matter of fact, When saying Forza 3 is better than GT5 why aren't you guys giving reasons?

Hint, I'm hoping its something that is driving related.

Blinblingthing

So you buy a game and care about your AI driver vs other AI drivers?

SO I'm guessing you bought Forza so you could hire a driver to race for you.

Come on dude. Who cares about your AI / Hired driver? Tell me about your experience, Not you e-driving.

how about the fact the Nascar drivers can spin out easily but you can't do the same to them, or (again in Nascar) that they can overtake you by crashing into the back of each other and magically manage to go faster without losing control, funny i don't think i've seen them do that in real life...

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="avenger2089"]

Um did you read my post? or is it your view of the game not the sales?

avenger2089

The critical reception.

Oh so now a game is judged on critical reception, when its usually the other way around when it comes to ps3 games.

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]GT goes back a whole generation earlier than Forza, where it had very little competition, therefore developed a much larger following.

razgriz_101

Don't forget the superior driving model in GT. A few die hards won't buy Forza because driving is actually important in a racing sim to them

if physics were so important they would have just bypassed the simcade games and went straight onto a simbin game or Rfactor.

Read the topic my Good Sir. It is a Forza and GT comparision.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]He's saying that GT had little competition in the 90s and got a big following.So how does it help you to say that the market is crowded now and use 360 games to do it? :?Heil68

It doesn't matter. It still does nothing to further your point. He said GT had little competition, so it doesn't make sense to use a crowded market in regards to Xbox games/Forza. A crowded market=more competition, so how does posting Xbox games that rebutt the notion that GT benefited from little competition, especially if we're talking about the GTs in the 90s. :? It's like you're trying to destroy your own argument.

[QUOTE="racing1750"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I love how GT fans try to pretend the driving model is the only part of a sim worth judging, ignoring everything else, like AI, customization, the structure of the career mode, car selection, events, etc. It comes as such a desperate attempt to isolate what GT excells at while ignoring its more janky aspects.

Blinblingthing

The physics are better in GT5.

Maybe the extra sense of speed you liked is why Forza 3's 370Z is about 4 seconds faster than its real life counter part on tsukuba.

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="racing1750"]

Race pro > GT5

racing1750

Good point with great supporting argument.

Glad you see it that way.

Race pro arguably has better physics than both GT5 and FM3 and guess who gives a dam? That's right, no one.

I was being sarcastic, Please get back to the topic now.

and I also listed other PS2 games which certainly challenged the series.Heil68

By the time the PS2 GT game about, GT all ready had its massive brand recognition.

It was in the 90s that it didn't have much competition.

Not to say that it wasn't an excellent sim back then, but you're arguments don't make sense.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

Don't forget the superior driving model in GT. A few die hards won't buy Forza because driving is actually important in a racing sim to them

Blinblingthing

if physics were so important they would have just bypassed the simcade games and went straight onto a simbin game or Rfactor.

Read the topic my Good Sir. It is a Forza and GT comparision.

There's no rule saying that true sims can't be brought into the discussion.

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I love how GT fans try to pretend the driving model is the only part of a sim worth judging, ignoring everything else, like AI, customization, the structure of the career mode, car selection, events, etc. It comes as such a desperate attempt to isolate what GT excells at while ignoring its more janky aspects.

GreySeal9

It isn't the only part. It is however the MOST important part when grading and comparing SIM in my Book.

Tell me, WHat do you consider the most important part about a racing game?

I don't think any one element that is more important than all others, but if I had to pick, I'd pick AI. AI is what gives races a sense of tension.

Here you go

Gran Turismo 5 vs. Forza 3 -AIcomparisonDebunked

[QUOTE="racing1750"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I love how GT fans try to pretend the driving model is the only part of a sim worth judging, ignoring everything else, like AI, customization, the structure of the career mode, car selection, events, etc. It comes as such a desperate attempt to isolate what GT excells at while ignoring its more janky aspects.

Blinblingthing

The physics are better in GT5.

Maybe the extra sense of speed you liked is why Forza 3's 370Z is about 4 seconds faster than its real life counter part on tsukuba.

[QUOTE="racing1750"]

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

Good point with great supporting argument.

Blinblingthing

Glad you see it that way.

Race pro arguably has better physics than both GT5 and FM3 and guess who gives a dam? That's right, no one.

I was being sarcastic, Please get back to the topic now.

[QUOTE="avenger2089"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

The critical reception.

GreySeal9

Oh so now a game is judged on critical reception, when its usually the other way around when it comes to ps3 games.

The way other people judge PS3 games has nothing to do with either my statement of mitu's, so that's irrelevant.

GT5 flopped critically. End of story.

True. however

Scarface also flopped critically, However the fans general reception is another thing.

Point? Someone else's opinion isn't a fact.

Not because everyone likes Inception doesn't mean you will too.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

It isn't the only part. It is however the MOST important part when grading and comparing SIM in my Book.

Tell me, WHat do you consider the most important part about a racing game?

Blinblingthing

I don't think any one element that is more important than all others, but if I had to pick, I'd pick AI. AI is what gives races a sense of tension.

Here you go

Gran Turismo 5 vs. Forza 3 -AIcomparisonDebunked

That video tried to to imply a conspiracy against GT. It's not credible. Please link me to a credible source.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="avenger2089"]

Oh so now a game is judged on critical reception, when its usually the other way around when it comes to ps3 games.

Blinblingthing

The way other people judge PS3 games has nothing to do with either my statement of mitu's, so that's irrelevant.

GT5 flopped critically. End of story.

True. however

Scarface also flopped critically, However the fans general reception is another thing.

Point? Someone else's opinion isn't a fact.

Not because everyone likes Inception doesn't mean you will too.

I never made out the reviews to be facts. I only said that GT5 flopped critically, which it did.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="avenger2089"]

Oh so now a game is judged on critical reception, when its usually the other way around when it comes to ps3 games.

Blinblingthing

The way other people judge PS3 games has nothing to do with either my statement of mitu's, so that's irrelevant.

GT5 flopped critically. End of story.

True. however

Scarface also flopped critically, However the fans general reception is another thing.

Point? Someone else's opinion isn't a fact.

Not because everyone likes Inception doesn't mean you will too.

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

The way other people judge PS3 games has nothing to do with either my statement of mitu's, so that's irrelevant.

GT5 flopped critically. End of story.

racing1750

True. however

Scarface also flopped critically, However the fans general reception is another thing.

Point? Someone else's opinion isn't a fact.

Not because everyone likes Inception doesn't mean you will too.

Are both those Cars in GT5 and Forza 3.

I didn't buy all of Forza 3 packs. So I hope there are on the disc.

I also hope T10 managed to get the Ring accurate since someone pointed out they screwed up another track.

Blinblingthing

Yes it is, I checked that the lp640 was in the stock version of both game.

However it's a different year ('07 F3, '09 GT5), and if the specs changed in anyway... then screw it, the Enzo in that case.

Here you go

Gran Turismo 5 vs. Forza 3 -AIcomparisonDebunked

Blinblingthing

[QUOTE="racing1750"][QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

True. however

Scarface also flopped critically, However the fans general reception is another thing.

Point? Someone else's opinion isn't a fact.

Not because everyone likes Inception doesn't mean you will too.

Heil68

Some liked it and some didn't. The general opinion was it's an AA racing game.

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]what you mean like all the AI drivers in GT5 (my B-Spec driver included) constantly crashing around monaco for no reason other than they haven't even bothered to check the programmed racing line doesn't go through walls :|

marklarmer

So you buy a game and care about your AI driver vs other AI drivers?

SO I'm guessing you bought Forza so you could hire a driver to race for you.

Come on dude. Who cares about your AI / Hired driver? Tell me about your experience, Not you e-driving.

how about the fact the Nascar drivers can spin out easily but you can't do the same to them, or (again in Nascar) that they can overtake you by crashing into the back of each other and magically manage to go faster without losing control, funny i don't think i've seen them do that in real life...

B-spec.................. OMG B-spec.

You bought GT5 to watch the AI play the game for you? Either way, The B-spec mode is better than just Hiring a driver for a race. More Involving.

Maybe the Nascar driver is better than you why you can't spin him out.

About your last point.

If you are drafting someone and bumping into them they go faster and you lose speed. But, Being you are still behind them, You can gain back speed and considering they were going faster than they were before you hit them, should be able to go even faster.

If you've raced something like a test course and there are two people way in front, Exchanging drafts, they will be faster than the third place guy with no one to draft.

SOunds like you pointed out more good physics in GT's game. Nice..............

Probably so.. I don't play GT5 but I played Forza 3 once for like 10 minutes..

but the majority opinion is that Forza is better so I guess so

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="racing1750"] As a GT fan I was immensely disappointed in GT5, and as far as I know a lot of people were.racing1750

Some liked it and some didn't. The general opinion was it's an AA racing game.

[QUOTE="racing1750"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"] But I wasn't by golly! I'm sure that helps your argument, eh? :PHeil68

Some liked it and some didn't. The general opinion was it's an AA racing game.

you realize in one of the comparisons a website actually did GT5 was 3 seconds faster than real life? just doing a couple of 'safe laps' i might add, but let me guess its only important when Forza 3s out right? :roll:

marklarmer

I would LOVE to see a link.

I hope the cars where stock.

Also, What did he do in Forza 3?

I have seen cars do better in GT5 than real life. Remember you have to look at how accurate is your real life reference.

In my reference, The 370Z is driven on Best Motoring whose drivers are either ex pro drivers or still pro drivers from GT 500 and GT 300 etc. Tell me how was the driver in your real life reference? Was in Motor Trend, Drivers Republic, Road and Track or Best Motoring etc? What were the track conditions?

But back to what you said, I would like to see that link.

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

so the whole B-Spec aspect of the game doesn't count when we're looking at flaws? or are you saying racing against opponents is not important in a racing game at all? :|

how about the fact the Nascar drivers can spin out easily but you can't do the same to them, or (again in Nascar) that they can overtake you by crashing into the back of each other and magically manage to go faster without losing control, funny i don't think i've seen them do that in real life...

Blinblingthing

B-spec.................. OMG B-spec.

You bought GT5 to watch the AI play the game for you? Either way, The B-spec mode is better than just Hiring a driver for a race. More Involving.

Maybe the Nascar driver is better than you why you can't spin him out.

About your last point.

If you are drafting someone and bumping into them they go faster and you lose speed. But, Being you are still behind them, You can gain back speed and considering they were going faster than they were before you hit them, should be able to go even faster.

If you've raced something like a test course and there are two people way in front, Exchanging drafts, they will be faster than the third place guy with no one to draft.

SOunds like you pointed out more good physics in GT's game. Nice..............

There's no rule saying that true sims can't be brought into the discussion.

GreySeal9

True, But why would you considering we already have to the things we are comparing?

Does Forza 3 need help or something? If it's as better as you guys make it sound you shouldn't need to mention other great sims.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There's no rule saying that true sims can't be brought into the discussion.

Blinblingthing

True, But why would you considering we already have to the things we are comparing?

Does Forza 3 need help or something? If it's as better as you guys make it sound you shouldn't need to mention other great sims.

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

I don't think any one element that is more important than all others, but if I had to pick, I'd pick AI. AI is what gives races a sense of tension.

GreySeal9

Here you go

Gran Turismo 5 vs. Forza 3 -AIcomparisonDebunked

That video tried to to imply a conspiracy against GT. It's not credible. Please link me to a credible source.

There was. You had a a game site ranting about GT5 AI being crapping. There was some FOOL that made ochestrated video to show GT5 being crappy. SHowing cars just crashing into one another who Forza 3 cars smartly turned away.

WHat credible source are you asking for? It is a video comparing the Two games AI being even. :s

If your enemy showed me a video of you stealing something. Does your claim of him not being a credible source as he has ill motives?

We aren't talking some edited video here. Its a video showing how another video people loved to used was doctored to make GT5 look like crap.

Heck, You show me your video to back up your statement. Kinda like I did

I never made out the reviews to be facts. I only said that GT5 flopped critically, which it did.

GreySeal9

Well it was more successful than Forza 3 commercially. :s

Now let's get off the props and back to the game.

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

you realize in one of the comparisons a website actually did GT5 was 3 seconds faster than real life? just doing a couple of 'safe laps' i might add, but let me guess its only important when Forza 3s out right? :roll:

Blinblingthing

I would LOVE to see a link.

I hope the cars where stock.

Also, What did he do in Forza 3?

I have seen cars do better in GT5 than real life. Remember you have to look at how accurate is your real life reference.

In my reference, The 370Z is driven on Best Motoring whose drivers are either ex pro drivers or still pro drivers from GT 500 and GT 300 etc. Tell me how was the driver in your real life reference? Was in Motor Trend, Drivers Republic, Road and Track or Best Motoring etc? What were the track conditions?

But back to what you said, I would like to see that link.

this has been done to death, the comparison was using fastestlaps.com times around Lecuna Seca in the Audi R8, Gran Turismo 5 was 3 seconds faster when the guy wasn't even pushing that hard, why does it matter so much? :? its not real life so it will never be the same, despite how realistic you're trying to claim it is. but as i said above you clearly can't accept Forza 3 being a better game so are just clinging onto this like its the most important thing ever (except when it makes GT5 look bad ofcourse)

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

Are both those Cars in GT5 and Forza 3.

I didn't buy all of Forza 3 packs. So I hope there are on the disc.

I also hope T10 managed to get the Ring accurate since someone pointed out they screwed up another track.

Inconsistancy

Yes it is, I checked that the lp640 was in the stock version of both game.

However it's a different year ('07 F3, '09 GT5), and if the specs changed in anyway... then screw it, the Enzo in that case.

Tell you what, We'll do both of them.

Enzo and Lambo LP640

However, Is there a real life reference to compare to. Because we need that to compare the two to.

I do believe we have Enzo real life time to go by. However I do believe the run was made with the enzo being damaged on the Run.

But Heck We'll do the Enzo for Sure

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

so the whole B-Spec aspect of the game doesn't count when we're looking at flaws? or are you saying racing against opponents is not important in a racing game at all? :|

how about the fact the Nascar drivers can spin out easily but you can't do the same to them, or (again in Nascar) that they can overtake you by crashing into the back of each other and magically manage to go faster without losing control, funny i don't think i've seen them do that in real life...

marklarmer

B-spec.................. OMG B-spec.

You bought GT5 to watch the AI play the game for you? Either way, The B-spec mode is better than just Hiring a driver for a race. More Involving.

Maybe the Nascar driver is better than you why you can't spin him out.

About your last point.

If you are drafting someone and bumping into them they go faster and you lose speed. But, Being you are still behind them, You can gain back speed and considering they were going faster than they were before you hit them, should be able to go even faster.

If you've raced something like a test course and there are two people way in front, Exchanging drafts, they will be faster than the third place guy with no one to draft.

SOunds like you pointed out more good physics in GT's game. Nice..............

What the heck am I suppose to say about B-spec mode? The cars shouldn't make errors?

You are talking ANOTHER driver. What ever the other driver did is what the DRIVER did.

I counted your physics argument, I am now asking you what am I suppose to tell you about B-spec mode? The driver shouldn't have made that error.

Forza doesn't have a B-spec mode so I don't see what I could compare it to

Another thing Blingbling When I did times on the TG test track I was a good 3-4 seconds faster than the STIG? GT5 is therefore unrealistic and is not in keeping with real world times....oh wait, I've figured this out, GT5 is a game.racing1750

What Car? Was it the Same car and Condition? A few TG times were done on a wet track you know. I hope you aren't about to embarass yourself using a time done on a wet track.

Where is your proof? I want to see the time? I hope your car was stock like on TG also.

The difference between me and you is that I try using proof/evidence to support my arguments. However you follow suit. Or is it true because you said it?

While we at it. I ran 1 minute around the Ring.