I genuinely can't believe 48 people actually think this thing will be cancelled.
Will Microsoft Kinect be canned?
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Yeah, I agree on this, but I see this, 3rd party companies will make Wii games multiplatform, or an easy port for the PS3. I don't see sadly projects being built specifically for Move. Now with Sony 1st party game, I see Move controllers as an option in core games. KZ3 is an example, LBP2 is another. But in the end it will fail to appeal the casual crowd, which were the original intentions form Sony[QUOTE="Giancar"][QUOTE="subrosian"]My biggest concern about both Kinect and Move is the software development. It seems fairly obvious that you can add some degree of support for the products in any game, i.e. you can let people use them to aim instead of a joystick. My concern is what kind of proprietary software we get for the devices. GreySeal9
Sony's approach is actually one of the reasons that it will probably fail to appeal to the casual crowd. It seems like they are trying to bring their existing audience around to the idea of motion control rather than making a strong pitch towards another market. It's an approach that's not going to capture either audience IMO.
Why is the assumption that the motion controls have to aimed solely at the "casual" crowd. That is not what gaming is about. If they can make viable motion controls for core games, that would be great. It would also be great if they were optional to use... see Lair for an example of why forced motion controls suck.
Kinect seems like a strike at the casual crowd strictly due the software they showed. I personally think that the gaming population is looking for new ways to interact with their games, and has been for some time. Whether or not anything this gen will prove to be a viable alternative to standard controllers remains to be seen, but I think it's silly to assume that only casuals want something like that.
[QUOTE="SapSacPrime"]At $150 each, or $350 for those who don't already have an Xbox, I'd be rather cautious about suggesting the casual crowd will be "delighted". Why wouldn't they just buy a Wii, especially given that the Wii has a far better line-up of motion software than the Kinect will launch with? Because they only want to have fun and what you think is better isn't better.Its going to sell like mad, plenty of the casual crowd will be delighted to be able to do away with controllers, even if it is just to flick through things like netflicks or sky.
subrosian
Based on all the negative feedback this thing is getting, I can't help but wonder.
Heirren
in the real world people seemed to love the idea
something about no controller and buttons is reallyappealing to the casuals
Kinect is going to sell like HOTCAKES. We often forget that the kind of gamers that come to SW are about 5% of the gaming population. Most people have seen Kinect and have said "Wow, this is cooler than the Wii". For those who like the Wii, this will be liked (and probably better).lhughey
And they have no idea what they'll be in for.
[QUOTE="SapSacPrime"]At $150 each, or $350 for those who don't already have an Xbox, I'd be rather cautious about suggesting the casual crowd will be "delighted". Why wouldn't they just buy a Wii, especially given that the Wii has a far better line-up of motion software than the Kinect will launch with?I doubt everyone thinks the Kinect will penetrate the market immediately. You can bet a year or two down the line the kinect will be doing well, when it hits mass market price and its library fills out a little. The competition will be fierce, but Microsoft is offering a new control scheme (or lack there of) that the Wii is not offering. Also, remember this: the kinect is marketted to casual gamers who only buy a few titles as evidenced by the sales of wii fit, mario kart, etc. So, it is apparent that one, they don't care about having a diverse and robust library, and two, they are willing to deal with a high entry cost for a couple of games. This is an audience that is craving accessible, interactive experiences that integrate well into their lives. You underestimate them, or rather you underestimate Microsoft's ability to target that audience.Its going to sell like mad, plenty of the casual crowd will be delighted to be able to do away with controllers, even if it is just to flick through things like netflicks or sky.
subrosian
Have you came to this conclusion simply because of negative feed back from SW? Because I dont see any negativity out there unless its coming from fanboys across forums.
[QUOTE="lhughey"]Kinect is going to sell like HOTCAKES. We often forget that the kind of gamers that come to SW are about 5% of the gaming population. Most people have seen Kinect and have said "Wow, this is cooler than the Wii". For those who like the Wii, this will be liked (and probably better).garland51
And they have no idea what they'll be in for.
The Wii is going awfully well considering that most of its games are shovel ware.LOL. 1 in 4 on system wars thinks microsoft's e3 flagship product will be cancelled before coming out in November. I am always amazed at how many people in system wars have COMPLETELY lost touch with reality. Nevermind the fact that its done, games have already been developed for it, the media response has been VERY favorable. Doesn't matter. Fanboys think its stupid and don't like the casual games. We better scrap the whole thing and lose millions.
Get a grip people. You don't have to like it. You can even argue that it may eventually fail. To say its already failed and they shouldn't even launch is crazy.
They know their gonna buy kinect or move.They complain now but when it comes out there gonna be all over it like 12 year old girls at a justin beiber concert.LOL. 1 in 4 on system wars thinks microsoft's e3 flagship product will be cancelled before coming out in November. I am always amazed at how many people in system wars have COMPLETELY lost touch with reality. Nevermind the fact that its done, games have already been developed for it, the media response has been VERY favorable. Doesn't matter. Fanboys think its stupid and don't like the casual games. We better scrap the whole thing and lose millions.
Get a grip people. You don't have to like it. You can even argue that it may eventually fail. To say its already failed and they shouldn't even launch is crazy.
mnvike
[QUOTE="Shirokishi_"]THIS. Most every preview for it has been positive. The only negative feedback is coming from SW.Agree. Here is where I see all the negatives blown up. Like the only 2 players at a time thing. This never stopped groups of people from playing games together before. You know while waiting for your turn you can talk to other people at a party.Can you link me to some of this negative feedback please?
wolverine4262
no it won't be cancelled. but it will eventually lose support, i just don't imagine M# supporting Kinect for a long time, they have to worry about their hardcore audience and now their casual audience. kinect just doesn't look that impressive comparing to what people thought of it last E3.
the ps3 wasn't canned so why will kinect be canned?
With what Microsoft showed off at E3.
No it's here to stay.
Who the hell is saying yes? are they serious? It is NOT getting much bad press, just hardcore gamers on this forum aren't big fans. Clearly that means it'll suck right. Anyway, more importantly, it's preordering very very well on Amazon (#1 thing related to gaming being preordered right now, right). And the fact is, microsoft has developed this for years. how in the hell would it benefit them, even if it won't sell well (and it will sell well, btw), canning it now/ Can people think realistically? THIS POLL IS NOT WHETHER OR NOT YOU LIKE KINECT. Read the goddamn question. It's whether or not you think MS will can it. And rthere is no way in hell microsoft will. I would give anyone 1000000-1 odds on that.
I doubt everyone thinks the Kinect will penetrate the market immediately. You can bet a year or two down the line the kinect will be doing well, when it hits mass market price and its library fills out a little. The competition will be fierce, but Microsoft is offering a new control scheme (or lack there of) that the Wii is not offering. Also, remember this: the kinect is marketted to casual gamers who only buy a few titles as evidenced by the sales of wii fit, mario kart, etc. So, it is apparent that one, they don't care about having a diverse and robust library, and two, they are willing to deal with a high entry cost for a couple of games. This is an audience that is craving accessible, interactive experiences that integrate well into their lives. You underestimate them, or rather you underestimate Microsoft's ability to target that audience.DrinkDuffYou're actually incorrect in your assumption that Wii owners don't consume software. From what we've seen, DS and Wii titles have achieved insane sales this generation. There is a software market on the Wii. The only reason that people here think the Kinect can compete in that market is that they don't understand casual gamers, at all. They don't understand that market, they assume they're smarter than everyone else, and think they know best. They don't, I've done the research, Microsoft doesn't "get" this audience. I don't underestimate that audience, people who think they're going to pay out the rear for what is, frankly, mediocre content, are underestimating this audience. Casual gamers have little tolerance for bull. That's part of why they don't buy into the so-called "hardcore" gaming experience: you put up with all kinds of things that aren't fun. Look at the average Modern Warfare 2 gamer from afar, they're "having fun" but they normally just look like they're getting ticked off! It doesn't look fun at all. This is not an audience that's going to put up with Kinect not recognizing their motions, sub-par software or absurd price tags. They'll pay money, but they expect something on the order of Rock Band, something they and their friends play every day and love. Suggesting Microsoft will create the next social phenomenon software is absurd though... and that's what it will take to make Kinect the next "thing". Unless they do that, spending two years developing market penetration won't cut it. If they don't get blown out by someone introducing a new console (is that a 3DS? the next Wii?) they'll simply lose a war of attrition in terms of remaining relevant as dozens of other software companies can just as easily introduce peripheral gaming, at a lower price to boot.
I think they put to much time/money into this to sweep it under the rug.
[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]
[QUOTE="Giancar"] Yeah, I agree on this, but I see this, 3rd party companies will make Wii games multiplatform, or an easy port for the PS3. I don't see sadly projects being built specifically for Move. Now with Sony 1st party game, I see Move controllers as an option in core games. KZ3 is an example, LBP2 is another. But in the end it will fail to appeal the casual crowd, which were the original intentions form SonyPug-Nasty
Sony's approach is actually one of the reasons that it will probably fail to appeal to the casual crowd. It seems like they are trying to bring their existing audience around to the idea of motion control rather than making a strong pitch towards another market. It's an approach that's not going to capture either audience IMO.
Why is the assumption that the motion controls have to aimed solely at the "casual" crowd. That is not what gaming is about. If they can make viable motion controls for core games, that would be great. It would also be great if they were optional to use... see Lair for an example of why forced motion controls suck.
Kinect seems like a strike at the casual crowd strictly due the software they showed. I personally think that the gaming population is looking for new ways to interact with their games, and has been for some time. Whether or not anything this gen will prove to be a viable alternative to standard controllers remains to be seen, but I think it's silly to assume that only casuals want something like that.
Yes, it is an assumption, but from what I've read on the various hang out spots of hardcore gamers on the internet, they are not all that open to change. They seem to just want bigger better games, not different ways to control them. Again, I'm going off what I've read. I'm not saying that motion control should only be for one audience, I'm just stating my observation that the hardcore audience doesn't want much to do with it. Even on this forum, you can see that opinion on an almost constant basis.
I understand that. However, to me anyway, bigger and better games are going to, at some point, require a new way to interact with them. There's only so much that can be done with buttons and sticks.
I still don't feel waggle and point is the key. If anything, Matrix-esque, thought-based interfaces would be the best thing to work on.
Apart from the neat "Minority Report" style interface, is any 360 honestly looking forward to Kinect for gaming? I'm my opinion it looks really really really terrible. :? :(
[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"]I doubt everyone thinks the Kinect will penetrate the market immediately. You can bet a year or two down the line the kinect will be doing well, when it hits mass market price and its library fills out a little. The competition will be fierce, but Microsoft is offering a new control scheme (or lack there of) that the Wii is not offering. Also, remember this: the kinect is marketted to casual gamers who only buy a few titles as evidenced by the sales of wii fit, mario kart, etc. So, it is apparent that one, they don't care about having a diverse and robust library, and two, they are willing to deal with a high entry cost for a couple of games. This is an audience that is craving accessible, interactive experiences that integrate well into their lives. You underestimate them, or rather you underestimate Microsoft's ability to target that audience.subrosianYou're actually incorrect in your assumption that Wii owners don't consume software. From what we've seen, DS and Wii titles have achieved insane sales this generation. There is a software market on the Wii. The only reason that people here think the Kinect can compete in that market is that they don't understand casual gamers, at all. They don't understand that market, they assume they're smarter than everyone else, and think they know best. They don't, I've done the research, Microsoft doesn't "get" this audience. I don't underestimate that audience, people who think they're going to pay out the rear for what is, frankly, mediocre content, are underestimating this audience. Casual gamers have little tolerance for bull. That's part of why they don't buy into the so-called "hardcore" gaming experience: you put up with all kinds of things that aren't fun. Look at the average Modern Warfare 2 gamer from afar, they're "having fun" but they normally just look like they're getting ticked off! It doesn't look fun at all. This is not an audience that's going to put up with Kinect not recognizing their motions, sub-par software or absurd price tags. They'll pay money, but they expect something on the order of Rock Band, something they and their friends play every day and love. Suggesting Microsoft will create the next social phenomenon software is absurd though... and that's what it will take to make Kinect the next "thing". Unless they do that, spending two years developing market penetration won't cut it. If they don't get blown out by someone introducing a new console (is that a 3DS? the next Wii?) they'll simply lose a war of attrition in terms of remaining relevant as dozens of other software companies can just as easily introduce peripheral gaming, at a lower price to boot. I haven't kept up with sales in a while but I do recall that Wii fit doubled the first Super mario galaxy in sales. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there probably isn't a lot of overlap in demographics, but even so, there is at least 10 million more consumers that were interested in something that is not traditionally classified as a videogame, than the arguably the best rated Wii title. That number had to come from somewhere, and if there are really that many adopters of the console, then what happened to those consumers when it came time to purchase other lauded games on the system?
As another example, the top selling game is Wii sports which stands at 64 million units. Nothing else on the console, nay the entire industry, comes close to selling that much. It then stands to reason that a significant number of Wii owners bought the console JUST to play that game and did not touch anything else on that console, or any other console. The Wii was selling at $250 at the time. What does this mean? The robustness of the games library was not a consideration for consumers of the more casual wii titles, and the cost was overshadowed by the value that those experiences brought. Yes other titles sold well, but those sales are comparable to sales of titles on other systems, and are within the norms of the industry before the Wii gained mainstream popularity as a new unique experience.
I don't see how Microsoft's Kinect games are any more "mediocre" than Nintendo's casual titles. They target a different audience, specifically one that is accustomed to really accessible controls, so they are shallower experiences. It's that simple. I never said Microsoft would create the next social phenomenon, they are however, introducing technology that exceeds motion controls in a few areas. At any rate, I think Microsoft is merely trying to be competitive with Nintendo, not advance the casual demographic or evolve the "genre" (can we call it that?). Are they falling short of its potential by only releasing kinect versions of successful Wii software? Yes absolutely. Are they dropping the ball and insulting their audience? I don't think so. They are merely just not trying to overextend themselves just in case the investment doesn't pay off.
Two years won't cut it? It took Nintendo until the release of the ds lite for the system to become immensely popular. That was two years, and it was for an arbitrary reason as well. Yes, the touch generation games helped considerably, but many consumers were not willing to jump in until the non-abhorently ugly version of the DS was released. In addition, the DS had a really sparse libary when it came out, and it did not fulfill its strategy of making the touch screen a viable alternative to traditional controls. The first ipod also had a rough launch, now its the de facto choice for a consumer of any entertainment electronics. If it worked for them it could work for Microsoft. Does that mean I am convinced it will overcome the wii? Absolutely not. There is more competition this time around, but Microsoft is not going to just limp into the market with the kinect and turn at the first sign of trouble. As a company that has succeeded in surpassing the unstoppable playstation with its second iteration, I think they will do alright. They will gain some ground on Nintendo.
You're actually incorrect in your assumption that Wii owners don't consume software. From what we've seen, DS and Wii titles have achieved insane sales this generation. There is a software market on the Wii. The only reason that people here think the Kinect can compete in that market is that they don't understand casual gamers, at all. They don't understand that market, they assume they're smarter than everyone else, and think they know best. They don't, I've done the research, Microsoft doesn't "get" this audience. I don't underestimate that audience, people who think they're going to pay out the rear for what is, frankly, mediocre content, are underestimating this audience. Casual gamers have little tolerance for bull. That's part of why they don't buy into the so-called "hardcore" gaming experience: you put up with all kinds of things that aren't fun. Look at the average Modern Warfare 2 gamer from afar, they're "having fun" but they normally just look like they're getting ticked off! It doesn't look fun at all. This is not an audience that's going to put up with Kinect not recognizing their motions, sub-par software or absurd price tags. They'll pay money, but they expect something on the order of Rock Band, something they and their friends play every day and love. Suggesting Microsoft will create the next social phenomenon software is absurd though... and that's what it will take to make Kinect the next "thing". Unless they do that, spending two years developing market penetration won't cut it. If they don't get blown out by someone introducing a new console (is that a 3DS? the next Wii?) they'll simply lose a war of attrition in terms of remaining relevant as dozens of other software companies can just as easily introduce peripheral gaming, at a lower price to boot. I haven't kept up with sales in a while but I do recall that Wii fit doubled the first Super mario galaxy in sales. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there probably isn't a lot of overlap in demographics, but even so, there is at least 10 million more consumers that were interested in something that is not traditionally classified as a videogame, than the arguably the best rated Wii title. That number had to come from somewhere, and if there are really that many adopters of the console, then what happened to those consumers when it came time to purchase other lauded games on the system?[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="DrinkDuff"]I doubt everyone thinks the Kinect will penetrate the market immediately. You can bet a year or two down the line the kinect will be doing well, when it hits mass market price and its library fills out a little. The competition will be fierce, but Microsoft is offering a new control scheme (or lack there of) that the Wii is not offering. Also, remember this: the kinect is marketted to casual gamers who only buy a few titles as evidenced by the sales of wii fit, mario kart, etc. So, it is apparent that one, they don't care about having a diverse and robust library, and two, they are willing to deal with a high entry cost for a couple of games. This is an audience that is craving accessible, interactive experiences that integrate well into their lives. You underestimate them, or rather you underestimate Microsoft's ability to target that audience.DrinkDuff
As another example, the top selling game is Wii sports which stands at 64 million units. Nothing else on the console, nay the entire industry, comes close to selling that much. It then stands to reason that a significant number of Wii owners bought the console JUST to play that game and did not touch anything else on that console, or any other console. The Wii was selling at $250 at the time. What does this mean? The robustness of the games library was not a consideration for consumers of the more casual wii titles, and the cost was overshadowed by the value that those experiences brought. Yes other titles sold well, but those sales are comparable to sales of titles on other systems, and are within the norms of the industry before the Wii gained mainstream popularity as a new unique experience.
I don't see how Microsoft's Kinect games are any more "mediocre" than Nintendo's casual titles. They target a different audience, specifically one that is accustomed to really accessible controls, so they are shallower experiences. It's that simple. I never said Microsoft would create the next social phenomenon, they are however, introducing technology that exceeds motion controls in a few areas. At any rate, I think Microsoft is merely trying to be competitive with Nintendo, not advance the casual demographic or evolve the "genre" (can we call it that?). Are they falling short of its potential by only releasing kinect versions of successful Wii software? Yes absolutely. Are they dropping the ball and insulting their audience? I don't think so. They are merely just not trying to overextend themselves just in case the investment doesn't pay off.
Two years won't cut it? It took Nintendo until the release of the ds lite for the system to become immensely popular. That was two years, and it was for an arbitrary reason as well. Yes, the touch generation games helped considerably, but many consumers were not willing to jump in until the non-abhorently ugly version of the DS was released. In addition, the DS had a really sparse libary when it came out, and it did not fulfill its strategy of making the touch screen a viable alternative to traditional controls. The first ipod also had a rough launch, now its the de facto choice for a consumer of any entertainment electronics. If it worked for them it could work for Microsoft. Does that mean I am convinced it will overcome the wii? Absolutely not. There is more competition this time around, but Microsoft is not going to just limp into the market with the kinect and turn at the first sign of trouble. As a company that has succeeded in surpassing the unstoppable playstation with its second iteration, I think they will do alright. They will gain some ground on Nintendo.
The fact that Wii Sports has sold well does not prove that other titles aren't selling, it simply proves that Wii software sales are not homogeneous. That makes sense when you realize we have a console that has sold over 70 million units. The Wii owners *aren't* all the same, which is why we see sales spread across a variety of games rather than concentrated in only a few "top selling" titles. Your argument is akin to pointing at the sales of Modern Warfare 2 or Rock Band and making the claim that other games aren't selling. No, it simply means that a few titles have a strong appeal across the board, while other titles are selling to more niche audiences. That's normal for the gaming market. Nintendo's research into the system has shown other titles *are* selling at the the average Wii user does continue to consume software. If that wasn't the case, there would be no reason for Nintendo to release software on the system, and third parties would have long ago abandoned it. When software is literally not selling on a system, you wind up with the Gamecube, where third parties stopped releasing titles like Madden (I mean, seriously, Madden) on the Gamecube because owners were not buying them. If you look at the Wii, you'll see it gets all of the sports games and then some... companies are making money on it. Two years won't cut it. Microsoft has released an ADD-ON not a new console. When the DS sales started out slow, it was irrelevant, publishers were on board because it was a Nintendo handheld. The chances of it failing were low, Nintendo's stake in the market was so high that they would make it a success no matter what it took. Publishers continued to push software development pipelines because the payoff was guaranteed. For the Kinect, the development of any serious budget towards software on it is a HUGE risk. At $150, there's no guarantee Microsoft can crack Nintendo's hold on the market. If you have a choice between developing a new Wii title with predictable sales, or taking a risk on a Kinect title that *might not even have an install base* which would you choose? It's not hard, you go with the proven system. Microsoft has to do something to reassure developers, and short of paying for every game on the system out of their own pocket, that's going to mean getting market penetration. And yes, they have to do it fast. If they hit the numbers they need to start developers two years from now, it will be another year or two out from that in which software beings to arrive. By 2013 ~ 2014, it's a bit late to have the "good" Kinect titles start showing up. You'll notice I have *NEVER* claimed Microsoft is going to cancel Kinect. If anything, it will fail, Microsoft will keep the sales number hush-hush, and they'll just launch their next console sooner than they would like to try. At no point will they come out and admit failure... but if they launch a new Xbox in 2012, and they aren't pasting huge Kinect sales numbers up at the next two E3s, you can bet what that means: it didn't work out.there is also a little thing called PR, i mean, when the commercials start rolling out here in denmark, i know about 100 people who will go absolutely bonkers over it, i mean, all they have to show in the commercial is kinectimals and a load of my female friends are gonna go "TAKE MAH MONEH!! KITTEH CAT!! KITTEEEHHHH!!!!11!!" so i think theis product is gonna sell like mad and get a load of hype when the T.V commercials start rolling out :O
http://www.gamesradar.com/f/is-kinect-shooting-itself-in-its-invisible-foot/a-20100628172230139015 Here is one link I found. I don't know if more exist. So meh. But remember that we, the consumers, create negative feedback. So to the person that said negative feedback only comes from SW, I doubt it. *Sorry for not hyperlink. I am doing a "Quick Quote" so I don't know how to hyperlink this way.Can you link me to some of this negative feedback please?
Shirokishi_
[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]The fact that it's only behind the 360 on preorder sales does show large initital interest though. You are absolutely right about it's continuing sales depending on functionality and implementation, but as of now - signs are good for initial sales. Depends...whats 3rd on the list? :SWhere do people get the idea that casual is synonymous with completely functionally retarded.
"Casuals" will not "eat this up" if its functionality is broken, or its software is not compelling enough. Casuals will not buy this just so they can close their eyes and pretend they're playing with Tony Stark's house.
Casuals will only buy this if they see a sufficient value proposition from the purchase. And this is a market which probably don't currently have a 360, so the value proposition has to be worthwhile for $300+. Otherwise they'll just continue to buy Wiis.
Ravensmash
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