Windows 8 is now out

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Well of course it's designed for tablets, but not so much that it isn't easily navigable with traditional input methods.

And I wasn't saying you did hate it, just throwing my opinion out there.

R4gn4r0k

I would also miss all the folders I have on my desktop, can you see those on the metro screen ?

I was replying to your first post too in a way :P

Ah, I get you.

Well, getting to the traditional desktop is pretty simple (Windows button + D) and it's pretty much the same thing as every other Windows desktop, meaning you can put anything you like on there. :D

Ah, I get you.

Well, getting to the traditional desktop is pretty simple (Windows button + D) and it's pretty much the same thing as every other Windows desktop, meaning you can put anything you like on there. :D

The_Game21x

But that is what I would do every time. I have far more use of my normal desktop interface than a block telling me what date it is or a block telling me what people or facebook are doing.

Those things are fine for on my phone (I have a windows phone with the metro interface) or even a tablet where you are not going to sit down and look at information for hours on end but just want the most important information at a glance. If you get what I'm trying to say.

Which interface do you use more btw ? Traditional or metro ?

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Ah, I get you.

Well, getting to the traditional desktop is pretty simple (Windows button + D) and it's pretty much the same thing as every other Windows desktop, meaning you can put anything you like on there. :D

R4gn4r0k

But that is what I would do every time. I have far more use of my normal desktop interface than a block telling me what date it is or a block telling me what people or facebook are doing.

Those things are fine for on my phone (I have a windows phone with the metro interface) or even a tablet where you are not going to sit down and look at information for hours on end but just want the most important information at a glance. If you get what I'm trying to say.

Which interface do you use more btw ? Traditional or metro ?

Well then that's fine, all it takes is a single click to get to the traditional desktop and that's it.

And I use the Metro interface sometimes but I mostly use the desktop and like I said, I've had no problems.

[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"][QUOTE="Rockman999"]

It's only $15 so I'm definitely making the switch.

Phazevariance

Well then that's fine, all it takes is a single click to get to the traditional desktop and that's it.

And I use the Metro interface sometimes but I mostly use the desktop and like I said, I've had no problems.

The_Game21x

I know a single click is a small thing to complain about. But I could just stay with W7 then and save myself the trouble every time I start windows :P

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Well then that's fine, all it takes is a single click to get to the traditional desktop and that's it.

And I use the Metro interface sometimes but I mostly use the desktop and like I said, I've had no problems.

R4gn4r0k

I know a single click is a small thing to complain about. But I could just stay with W7 then and save myself the trouble every time I start windows :P

Makes sense. Windows 7 is still an excellent OS so it's not unreasonable that you'd want to stay with what you know. I may not upgrade my desktop to Windows 8 right out the gate, I'm still trying it out on my laptop before I make the jump.

Let's not forget the other benchmarks:

So in conclusion it's just Shogun 2 that benefits. No use switching OS for one game. Also this:

[QUOTE="GamerwillzPS"]

This ridiculous UI is the reason why I won't be buying Windows 8.

R4gn4r0k

This is made for a touchscreen, not keyboard and mouse. And since I'm using a keyboard and mouse on my PC I have no use for this.

Until MS relents on forcing people to start in metro - going so far as to break any attempt to bypass it released - I'm not interested. Metro (or whatever they're calling it this week) is not something I desire to work with on traditional PCs, and the slow move to push users into an interface that gives MS complete control over what programs I use on it isn't something I want to give even tacit approval.

Win 8 is an attempt to boost sales of other MS devices and create a new, lucrative business with the Windows store. Neither of those actually are a benefit to users at all.

Until MS relents on forcing people to start in metro - going so far as to break any attempt to bypass it released - I'm not interested. Metro (or whatever they're calling it this week) is not something I desire to work with on traditional PCs, and the slow move to push users into an interface that gives MS complete control over what programs I use on it isn't something I want to give even tacit approval.

Win 8 is an attempt to boost sales of other MS devices and create a new, lucrative business with the Windows store. Neither of those actually are a benefit to users at all.

santoron

[QUOTE="santoron"]

Until MS relents on forcing people to start in metro - going so far as to break any attempt to bypass it released - I'm not interested. Metro (or whatever they're calling it this week) is not something I desire to work with on traditional PCs, and the slow move to push users into an interface that gives MS complete control over what programs I use on it isn't something I want to give even tacit approval.

Win 8 is an attempt to boost sales of other MS devices and create a new, lucrative business with the Windows store. Neither of those actually are a benefit to users at all.

MBirdy88

Most of the outspoken developers don't seem to agree on this "benefit". Unless you have numerous backing quotes, I call BS.

Benefit to casual users? Doubtful. Anyone who can't find or install software in 2012 on their PCs moved to other devices long ago. I think you everestimate the difficulties of procuring and launching software these days.

It's not paranoia to detail the factual state of a given situation, and trying to marginalize legitimate concerns as such is a poor way to debate. App Stores aren't "evil" or overly controlling in and of themselves. But its required use on the Required to Use homescreeen of Windows 8 represents a first step in a closing off of the OS. MS won't have to rip away the desktop, just marginalize it. Father time will do the rest. MS knows a little something about this... it's the same way they weened people off of DOS. This time, they are trying to guide PCs to a place I don't personally want to go, and many outspoken industry leaders seem to agree with me.

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"][QUOTE="santoron"]

Until MS relents on forcing people to start in metro - going so far as to break any attempt to bypass it released - I'm not interested. Metro (or whatever they're calling it this week) is not something I desire to work with on traditional PCs, and the slow move to push users into an interface that gives MS complete control over what programs I use on it isn't something I want to give even tacit approval.

Win 8 is an attempt to boost sales of other MS devices and create a new, lucrative business with the Windows store. Neither of those actually are a benefit to users at all.

santoron

Most of the outspoken developers don't seem to agree on this "benefit". Unless you have numerous backing quotes, I call BS.

Benefit to casual users? Doubtful. Anyone who can't find or install software in 2012 on their PCs moved to other devices long ago. I think you everestimate the difficulties of procuring and launching software these days.

It's not paranoia to detail the factual state of a given situation, and trying to marginalize legitimate concerns as such is a poor way to debate. App Stores aren't "evil" or overly controlling in and of themselves. But its required use on the Required to Use homescreeen of Windows 8 represents a first step in a closing off of the OS. MS won't have to rip away the desktop, just marginalize it. Father time will do the rest. MS knows a little something about this... it's the same way they weened people off of DOS. This time, they are trying to guide PCs to a place I don't personally want to go, and many outspoken industry leaders seem to agree with me.

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"][QUOTE="santoron"]

Until MS relents on forcing people to start in metro - going so far as to break any attempt to bypass it released - I'm not interested. Metro (or whatever they're calling it this week) is not something I desire to work with on traditional PCs, and the slow move to push users into an interface that gives MS complete control over what programs I use on it isn't something I want to give even tacit approval.

Win 8 is an attempt to boost sales of other MS devices and create a new, lucrative business with the Windows store. Neither of those actually are a benefit to users at all.

santoron

Most of the outspoken developers don't seem to agree on this "benefit". Unless you have numerous backing quotes, I call BS.

Benefit to casual users? Doubtful. Anyone who can't find or install software in 2012 on their PCs moved to other devices long ago. I think you everestimate the difficulties of procuring and launching software these days.

It's not paranoia to detail the factual state of a given situation, and trying to marginalize legitimate concerns as such is a poor way to debate. App Stores aren't "evil" or overly controlling in and of themselves. But its required use on the Required to Use homescreeen of Windows 8 represents a first step in a closing off of the OS. MS won't have to rip away the desktop, just marginalize it. Father time will do the rest. MS knows a little something about this... it's the same way they weened people off of DOS. This time, they are trying to guide PCs to a place I don't personally want to go, and many outspoken industry leaders seem to agree with me.

Since when is anyone required to use the Windows 8 App Store? Also, I installed Start 8 and I boot straight to the desktop. Have you ever even used Windows 8?

8 is the new vista.

Everyone just stuck with XP when vista came out because vista was so crappy, then 7 came out and people actually liked it. So if the pattern continues, windows 9 will come out and it will be worth buying, and windows 8 will be shunned like it never existed.

8 is the new vista.

Everyone just stuck with XP when vista came out because vista was so crappy, then 7 came out and people actually liked it. So if the pattern continues, windows 9 will come out and it will be worth buying, and windows 8 will be shunned like it never existed.

Vaasman

Oh please, the only negative developer quotes have been success giants like Notch (who is being an idiot about it.) and big competitors like Valve/Blizzard. For all the small "nameless" developers that thrive on touch platforms and phones its a very different story, fact is without the windows store/metro windows is VOID of this possibility and is limited by windows phone 7.5. NO, it does not "represent closing off the OS" thats absolute paranoid BS if anything is in this thread. The friggin irony is the new START screen is more functional than the old one.MBirdy88

I asked for quotes by devs praising it, you instead tried to marginilize complaints. Not looking good for your side there...

Independant developers have numerous ways to distribute their software on the open PC platform now, and this thread does not concern itself of the plight of Windows tablet and Phone users. The Windows store doesn't make it MORE likely for any piece of software to be released. Instead, it makes it more likely that software released on it will be utilized over software released independantly, with the effect compounded by time. That's a net loss for creativity. Not to mention the rather stringent rules on the software they'll allow going forward.

If you refuse to believe that the Windows Store represents... well, what it is, then there is very little to be done for you now. Just remember, even OSX allows you to sideload Apps from outside of its AppStore, not so here. And If MS didn't care PASSIONATELY about getting people to use their new closed system over the traditional open software model, they wouldn't be continuing to patch closed any attempt to boot a PC into the desktop. Take away just that one disturbing fact, and most of my objections melt away. But they aren't going to do that, and they certainly aren't forcing you into Metro every time you start your PC for your benefit. It's a play to push you towards their offerings, one boot up at a time.

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

8 is the new vista.

Everyone just stuck with XP when vista came out because vista was so crappy, then 7 came out and people actually liked it. So if the pattern continues, windows 9 will come out and it will be worth buying, and windows 8 will be shunned like it never existed.

MBirdy88

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"]Oh please, the only negative developer quotes have been success giants like Notch (who is being an idiot about it.) and big competitors like Valve/Blizzard. For all the small "nameless" developers that thrive on touch platforms and phones its a very different story, fact is without the windows store/metro windows is VOID of this possibility and is limited by windows phone 7.5. NO, it does not "represent closing off the OS" thats absolute paranoid BS if anything is in this thread. The friggin irony is the new START screen is more functional than the old one.santoron

I asked for quotes by devs praising it, you instead tried to marginilize complaints. Not looking good for your side there...

Independant developers have numerous ways to distribute their software on the open PC platform now, and this thread does not concern itself of the plight of Windows tablet and Phone users. The Windows store doesn't make it MORE likely for any piece of software to be released. Instead, it makes it more likely that software released on it will be utilized over software released independantly, with the effect compounded by time. That's a net loss for creativity. Not to mention the rather stringent rules on the software they'll allow going forward.

If you refuse to believe that the Windows Store represents... well, what it is, then there is very little to be done for you now. Just remember, even OSX allows you to sideload Apps from outside of its AppStore, not so here. And If MS didn't care PASSIONATELY about getting people to use their new closed system over the traditional open software model, they wouldn't be continuing to patch closed any attempt to boot a PC into the desktop. Take away just that one disturbing fact, and most of my objections melt away. But they aren't going to do that, and they certainly aren't forcing you into Metro every time you start your PC for your benefit. It's a play to push you towards their offerings, one boot up at a time.

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]

8 is the new vista.

Everyone just stuck with XP when vista came out because vista was so crappy, then 7 came out and people actually liked it. So if the pattern continues, windows 9 will come out and it will be worth buying, and windows 8 will be shunned like it never existed.

Vaasman

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"]Oh please, the only negative developer quotes have been success giants like Notch (who is being an idiot about it.) and big competitors like Valve/Blizzard. For all the small "nameless" developers that thrive on touch platforms and phones its a very different story, fact is without the windows store/metro windows is VOID of this possibility and is limited by windows phone 7.5. NO, it does not "represent closing off the OS" thats absolute paranoid BS if anything is in this thread. The friggin irony is the new START screen is more functional than the old one.santoron

I asked for quotes by devs praising it, you instead tried to marginilize complaints. Not looking good for your side there...

Independant developers have numerous ways to distribute their software on the open PC platform now, and this thread does not concern itself of the plight of Windows tablet and Phone users. The Windows store doesn't make it MORE likely for any piece of software to be released. Instead, it makes it more likely that software released on it will be utilized over software released independantly, with the effect compounded by time. That's a net loss for creativity. Not to mention the rather stringent rules on the software they'll allow going forward.

If you refuse to believe that the Windows Store represents... well, what it is, then there is very little to be done for you now. Just remember, even OSX allows you to sideload Apps from outside of its AppStore, not so here. And If MS didn't care PASSIONATELY about getting people to use their new closed system over the traditional open software model, they wouldn't be continuing to patch closed any attempt to boot a PC into the desktop. Take away just that one disturbing fact, and most of my objections melt away. But they aren't going to do that, and they certainly aren't forcing you into Metro every time you start your PC for your benefit. It's a play to push you towards their offerings, one boot up at a time.

These highlighted lines show just how little you actually know about Windows 8.

1. Yes you CAN install your own programs under Windows 8, just like Windows 7.

2. I installed Start 8 and boot into the traditional desktop. What was that about being forced to use the new interface again?

This ridiculous UI is the reason why I won't be buying Windows 8.

GamerwillzPS

You can switch back to normal, plus that'll be great for using with the TV.

Since when is anyone required to use the Windows 8 App Store? Also, I installed Start 8 and I boot straight to the desktop. Have you ever even used Windows 8?

The_Game21x

I didn't think this would have to be expounded upon.... As stated, Metro content is provided exclusively by the Windows Store. Was that so difficult to uderstand?

And yes, there have continued to be hacks to try and bypass MS's stated refusal to allow users to boot to the desktop. Some new ones work, a few persist from earlier, and most so far have been patched away, and MS will continue to patch hacks away as they find them. The fact you have a still continuing hack doesn't negate their stance, nor speak to your ability to continue to do so in the future. The ability of a minority of users (hopefully forever) to hack their OS to bybass MS's new closed system isn't a good argument for the continuing openess of the platform.

Yes, I have used a preview build of Windows 8. Have you been reading on the pertinent news? Because you're either being argumentative for giggles, or ignorant of the relevant facts. None of the things I've said are in dispute. :|

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Since when is anyone required to use the Windows 8 App Store? Also, I installed Start 8 and I boot straight to the desktop. Have you ever even used Windows 8?

santoron

I didn't think this would have to be expounded upon.... As stated, Metro content is provided exclusively by the Windows Store. Was that so difficult to uderstand?

And yes, there have continued to be hacks to try and bypass MS's stated refusal to allow users to boot to the desktop. Some new ones work, a few persist from earlier, and most so far have been patched away, and MS will continue to patch hacks away as they find them. The fact you have a still continuing hack doesn't negate their stance, nor speak to your ability to continue to do so in the future. The ability of a minority of users (hopefully forever) to hack their OS to bybass MS's new closed system isn't a good argument for the continuing openess of the platform.

Yes, I have used a preview build of Windows 8. Have you been reading on the pertinent news? Because you're either being argumentative for giggles, or ignorant of the relevant facts. None of the things I've said are in dispute. :|

These highlighted lines show just how little you actually know about Windows 8.

1. Yes you CAN install your own programs under Windows 8, just like Windows 7.

2. I installed Start 8 and boot into the traditional desktop. What was that about being forced to use the new interface again?

The_Game21x

Your highlighted lines show how little you seem to actually know about the discussion at hand.

1. No one has disputed there remains the ability to load traditional software in windows 8. Please stop with that strawman. This discussion centers around there being NO ability to use any Metro program not provided through the Windows Store. How does that represent a step towards the walling off of the system? Please refer to my earlier post.

2. You hacked your OS, something the majority cannot do, and an ability MS has stated they intend to continue to remove and confound going forward. If that's your best argument, then it's one you should consider soberly going forward. Do you want to continue to fight against MS to try and have that functionality? Do you believe most users even have the ability to try? If either answer is no, then this is a terrible attempt to placate genuine concerns.

[QUOTE="santoron"]

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Since when is anyone required to use the Windows 8 App Store? Also, I installed Start 8 and I boot straight to the desktop. Have you ever even used Windows 8?

MBirdy88

I didn't think this would have to be expounded upon.... As stated, Metro content is provided exclusively by the Windows Store. Was that so difficult to uderstand?

And yes, there have continued to be hacks to try and bypass MS's stated refusal to allow users to boot to the desktop. Some new ones work, a few persist from earlier, and most so far have been patched away, and MS will continue to patch hacks away as they find them. The fact you have a still continuing hack doesn't negate their stance, nor speak to your ability to continue to do so in the future. The ability of a minority of users (hopefully forever) to hack their OS to bybass MS's new closed system isn't a good argument for the continuing openess of the platform.

Yes, I have used a preview build of Windows 8. Have you been reading on the pertinent news? Because you're either being argumentative for giggles, or ignorant of the relevant facts. None of the things I've said are in dispute. :|

The word Hack, doesn't connote a dismissive or derogatory meaning. At least from me. And a pricetag certainly doesn't confer immunity from MS's stated intentions. Do you have anything from Stardock or MS stating that such functionality will be guaranteed to work going forward? I submitted a link that doesn't seem to gel with your beliefs...

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Since when is anyone required to use the Windows 8 App Store? Also, I installed Start 8 and I boot straight to the desktop. Have you ever even used Windows 8?

santoron

I didn't think this would have to be expounded upon.... As stated, Metro content is provided exclusively by the Windows Store. Was that so difficult to uderstand?

And yes, there have continued to be hacks to try and bypass MS's stated refusal to allow users to boot to the desktop. Some new ones work, a few persist from earlier, and most so far have been patched away, and MS will continue to patch hacks away as they find them. The fact you have a still continuing hack doesn't negate their stance, nor speak to your ability to continue to do so in the future. The ability of a minority of users (hopefully forever) to hack their OS to bybass MS's new closed system isn't a good argument for the continuing openess of the platform.

Yes, I have used a preview build of Windows 8. Have you been reading on the pertinent news? Because you're either being argumentative for giggles, or ignorant of the relevant facts. None of the things I've said are in dispute. :|

So now it's a problem that Metro content is provided exclusively by the App Store? The same content that lives in the desktop everyone is "forced" to boot into that you've been railing against?

And that's not Microsoft's stated refusal. Microsoft has stated nothing of the sort and the assumption that Microsoft will continue to patch out hacks and whatnot is just that, an assumption. I guess we'll soon see in the coming months.

The fact that your posts have been filled with innaccuracies (namely the inability to boot straight to the desktop and your incorrect assumption that applications can't be sideloaded) gave me more than enough reason to believe that you haven't used Windows 8. You say you have but I still remain skeptical.

for my destop. No way. not going out buy new windows for no reason.

For my laptop thats still questionable. faster start up speeds and better performance would be nice. and it's in the $15 promo if i want it. but most likely won't

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

These highlighted lines show just how little you actually know about Windows 8.

1. Yes you CAN install your own programs under Windows 8, just like Windows 7.

2. I installed Start 8 and boot into the traditional desktop. What was that about being forced to use the new interface again?

santoron

Your highlighted lines show how little you seem to actually know about the discussion at hand.

1. No one has disputed there remains the ability to load traditional software in windows 8. Please stop with that strawman. This discussion centers around there being NO ability to use any Metro program not provided through the Windows Store. How does that represent a step towards the walling off of the system? Please refer to my earlier post.

2. You hacked your OS, something the majority cannot do, and an ability MS has stated they intend to continue to remove and confound going forward. If that's your best argument, then it's one you should consider soberly going forward. Do you want to continue to fight against MS to try and have that functionality? Do you believe most users even have the ability to try? If either answer is no, then this is a terrible attempt to placate genuine concerns.

1. You never said anything about METRO apps specifically and the word METRO is nowhere to be found in your post. Specificity is your friend.

2. Microsoft did not state they would remove the functionality, it was just reported that they have disabled certain hacks. There is no evidence that states that the commercial software I paid for won't continue to function as intended. The legal ramifications for Microsoft disabling perfectly legitimate commercial software from running would be catastrophic.

So now it's a problem that Metro content is provided exclusively by the App Store? The same content that lives in the desktop everyone is "forced" to boot into that you've been railing against?

And that's not Microsoft's stated refusal. Microsoft has stated nothing of the sort and the assumption that Microsoft will continue to patch out hacks and whatnot is just that, an assumption. I guess we'll soon see in the coming months.

The fact that your posts have been filled with innaccuracies (namely the inability to boot straight to the desktop and your incorrect assumption that applications can't be sideloaded) gave me more than enough reason to believe that you haven't used Windows 8. You say you have but I still remain skeptical.

The_Game21x

:lol:Your beliefs about my history with Windows 8 concerns you a heckuva lot more than it does me. The idea that I should need to prove anything to you seems... childish.

As for the rest:

"So now?" That was always the concern. The only one who attempted to move the goal posts was you. The arguments against such an arrangement are simple: It moves a closed selection of apps ahead of every other legitmate means of procuring software. And it changes the nature of the system itself. True, in this edition there are still standard ways of loading software from other sources. They have merely been de-emphasized. This is how MS removes a feature (as I alluded to earlier with DOS). They Don't rip it away, they just steer people towards their preferred solution until the other loses critical mass.

(Green) Your efforts to confound MS's attempts to confound you are not representative of the OS, nor are they good indicators of your abilities going forward. You misunderstanding about the software being spoken of was just that: your mistake. Instead of directing so much energy trying to asrgue for such a system, shouldn't you at least consider WHY an OS upgrade should take outside workarounds for you to enjoy? Your enthusiasms seem misplaced, IMO.

[QUOTE="santoron"]

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

These highlighted lines show just how little you actually know about Windows 8.

1. Yes you CAN install your own programs under Windows 8, just like Windows 7.

2. I installed Start 8 and boot into the traditional desktop. What was that about being forced to use the new interface again?

The_Game21x

Your highlighted lines show how little you seem to actually know about the discussion at hand.

1. No one has disputed there remains the ability to load traditional software in windows 8. Please stop with that strawman. This discussion centers around there being NO ability to use any Metro program not provided through the Windows Store. How does that represent a step towards the walling off of the system? Please refer to my earlier post.

2. You hacked your OS, something the majority cannot do, and an ability MS has stated they intend to continue to remove and confound going forward. If that's your best argument, then it's one you should consider soberly going forward. Do you want to continue to fight against MS to try and have that functionality? Do you believe most users even have the ability to try? If either answer is no, then this is a terrible attempt to placate genuine concerns.

1. You never said anything about METRO apps specifically and the word METRO is nowhere to be found in your post. Specificity is your friend.

2. Microsoft did not state they would remove the functionality, it was just reported that they have disabled certain hacks. There is no evidence that states that the commercial software I paid for won't continue to function as intended. The legal ramifications for Microsoft disabling perfectly legitimate commercial software from running would be catastrophic.

1. Well, until your interjection, everyone seemed to undestand just fine. Context is key.

2. Well, I WAS quite certain that MS had confirmed - albeit in a terse response - that MS's policy was to block any workarounds going forward. However, since I can't quickly find a direct quote, I'll concede the point to you, at least temporarilly, and with the caveat that their ACTIONS thus far (which we do have plenty of documentation) do not support your position. And if you think your contract between you and a software developer holds any legal ramifications on MS, I've got a bridge simulator to sell you.

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

So now it's a problem that Metro content is provided exclusively by the App Store? The same content that lives in the desktop everyone is "forced" to boot into that you've been railing against?

And that's not Microsoft's stated refusal. Microsoft has stated nothing of the sort and the assumption that Microsoft will continue to patch out hacks and whatnot is just that, an assumption. I guess we'll soon see in the coming months.

The fact that your posts have been filled with innaccuracies (namely the inability to boot straight to the desktop and your incorrect assumption that applications can't be sideloaded) gave me more than enough reason to believe that you haven't used Windows 8. You say you have but I still remain skeptical.

santoron

:lol:Your beliefs about my history with Windows 8 concerns you a heckuva lot more than it does me. The idea that I should need to prove anything to you seems... childish.

As for the rest:

"So now?" That was always the concern. The only one who attempted to move the goal posts was you. The arguments against such an arrangement are simple: It moves a closed selection of apps ahead of every other legitmate means of procuring software. And it changes the nature of the system itself. True, in this edition there are still standard ways of loading software from other sources. They have merely been de-emphasized. This is how MS removes a feature (as I alluded to earlier with DOS). They Don't rip it away, they just steer people towards their preferred solution until the other loses critical mass.

(Green) Your efforts to confound MS's attempts to confound you are not representative of the OS, nor are they good indicators of your abilities going forward. You misunderstanding about the software being spoken of was just that: your mistake. Instead of directing so much energy trying to asrgue for such a system, shouldn't you at least consider WHY an OS upgrade should take outside workarounds for you to enjoy? Your enthusiasms seem misplaced, IMO.

Never once did I say or imply that you had to prove to me that you've used Windows 8. Good job putting words in my mouth. If your post hadn't been filled with innaccuracies, I wouldn't be skeptical but it is, so I am. You don't have to prove anything to me. Quite frankly, I don't care if you have or haven't used Windows 8.

Again, you should've specified. MBirdy88 questioned your post as well so clearly it wasn't as well understood as you seem to think it was. Again, specify and you won't have any problems. Simple concept.

You make a lot of assumptions in your posts. Microsoft has every right to roll out its own app store on its OS and if Microsoft simply restricted people from installing their own applications, I'd agree with you. Seeing as this is not the case, your argument has little merit. The Windows 8 App Store gives consumers an easier way to find new applications and developers an easier way to market and sell their applications. Microsoft isn't taking away or de-emphasizing anything. Of course they have a vested interest in people using their App Store but no options have been removed from users in Windows 8, if anything, users have moreoptions now.

Yes, of course, Microsoft is confounding me, of course.

I like Windows 8 and I have no problems with the Metro dashboard. Coming to this forum to dispel innaccuracies about the OS does not mean I am being confounded or attempting to confound anyone here. Like I said, if you had specified about the software, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You should've been clearer. You can't blame me after you made a general statement and I interpreted differently than you intended. As I said before, others interpreted your statement differently as well. Don't single me out because of your mistake.

And I didn't download Start 8 because I wasn't enjoying the OS. I don't have the problem you have with using or booting into Metro. I downloaded it because I wanted to try it out. Simple as that.

[QUOTE="santoron"]

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"]Oh please, the only negative developer quotes have been success giants like Notch (who is being an idiot about it.) and big competitors like Valve/Blizzard. For all the small "nameless" developers that thrive on touch platforms and phones its a very different story, fact is without the windows store/metro windows is VOID of this possibility and is limited by windows phone 7.5. NO, it does not "represent closing off the OS" thats absolute paranoid BS if anything is in this thread. The friggin irony is the new START screen is more functional than the old one.The_Game21x

I asked for quotes by devs praising it, you instead tried to marginilize complaints. Not looking good for your side there...

Independant developers have numerous ways to distribute their software on the open PC platform now, and this thread does not concern itself of the plight of Windows tablet and Phone users. The Windows store doesn't make it MORE likely for any piece of software to be released. Instead, it makes it more likely that software released on it will be utilized over software released independantly, with the effect compounded by time. That's a net loss for creativity. Not to mention the rather stringent rules on the software they'll allow going forward.

If you refuse to believe that the Windows Store represents... well, what it is, then there is very little to be done for you now. Just remember, even OSX allows you to sideload Apps from outside of its AppStore, not so here. And If MS didn't care PASSIONATELY about getting people to use their new closed system over the traditional open software model, they wouldn't be continuing to patch closed any attempt to boot a PC into the desktop. Take away just that one disturbing fact, and most of my objections melt away. But they aren't going to do that, and they certainly aren't forcing you into Metro every time you start your PC for your benefit. It's a play to push you towards their offerings, one boot up at a time.

These highlighted lines show just how little you actually know about Windows 8.

1. Yes you CAN install your own programs under Windows 8, just like Windows 7.

2. I installed Start 8 and boot into the traditional desktop. What was that about being forced to use the new interface again?

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

[QUOTE="santoron"]

I asked for quotes by devs praising it, you instead tried to marginilize complaints. Not looking good for your side there...

Independant developers have numerous ways to distribute their software on the open PC platform now, and this thread does not concern itself of the plight of Windows tablet and Phone users. The Windows store doesn't make it MORE likely for any piece of software to be released. Instead, it makes it more likely that software released on it will be utilized over software released independantly, with the effect compounded by time. That's a net loss for creativity. Not to mention the rather stringent rules on the software they'll allow going forward.

If you refuse to believe that the Windows Store represents... well, what it is, then there is very little to be done for you now. Just remember, even OSX allows you to sideload Apps from outside of its AppStore, not so here. And If MS didn't care PASSIONATELY about getting people to use their new closed system over the traditional open software model, they wouldn't be continuing to patch closed any attempt to boot a PC into the desktop. Take away just that one disturbing fact, and most of my objections melt away. But they aren't going to do that, and they certainly aren't forcing you into Metro every time you start your PC for your benefit. It's a play to push you towards their offerings, one boot up at a time.

clyde46

These highlighted lines show just how little you actually know about Windows 8.

1. Yes you CAN install your own programs under Windows 8, just like Windows 7.

2. I installed Start 8 and boot into the traditional desktop. What was that about being forced to use the new interface again?

Then don't and continue to click all of one time to get to the desktop.

Or continue using Windows 7.

I'm happy with Windows 7 on my desktop (for now) but I'm also pleased with Windows 8 Pro on my laptop.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

These highlighted lines show just how little you actually know about Windows 8.

1. Yes you CAN install your own programs under Windows 8, just like Windows 7.

2. I installed Start 8 and boot into the traditional desktop. What was that about being forced to use the new interface again?

The_Game21x

Then don't and continue to click all of one time to get to the desktop.

Or continue using Windows 7.

I'm happy with Windows 7 on my desktop (for now) but I'm also pleased with Windows 8 Pro on my laptop.

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] I shouldnt have to install a separate program just to use my desktop.clyde46

Then don't and continue to click all of one time to get to the desktop.

Or continue using Windows 7.

I'm happy with Windows 7 on my desktop (for now) but I'm also pleased with Windows 8 Pro on my laptop.

Yes it is and yes it does. Metro is always there but Windows 8 is already a very lightweight OS so having it run in the background is not a big deal at all. As soon as the machine boots, you log in and there's a tile for the desktop. Click on it and you're in the traditional desktop. Or hit Windows button + D. Either way, once you're there, you don't have to see Metro again until you reboot.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Then don't and continue to click all of one time to get to the desktop.

Or continue using Windows 7.

I'm happy with Windows 7 on my desktop (for now) but I'm also pleased with Windows 8 Pro on my laptop.

The_Game21x

Yes it is and yes it does. Metro is always there but Windows 8 is already a very lightweight OS so having it run in the background is not a big deal at all. As soon as the machine boots, you log in and there's a tile for the desktop. Click on it and you're in the traditional desktop. Or hit Windows button + D. Either way, once you're there, you don't have to see Metro again until you reboot.

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] Wait, its a one click system? Does Metro still run in the background? clyde46

Yes it is and yes it does. Metro is always there but Windows 8 is already a very lightweight OS so having it run in the background is not a big deal at all. As soon as the machine boots, you log in and there's a tile for the desktop. Click on it and you're in the traditional desktop. Or hit Windows button + D. Either way, once you're there, you don't have to see Metro again until you reboot.

Nah, not yet, but I'm sure someone will come up with something once the OS is released.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Yes it is and yes it does. Metro is always there but Windows 8 is already a very lightweight OS so having it run in the background is not a big deal at all. As soon as the machine boots, you log in and there's a tile for the desktop. Click on it and you're in the traditional desktop. Or hit Windows button + D. Either way, once you're there, you don't have to see Metro again until you reboot.

The_Game21x

Nah, not yet, but I'm sure someone will come up with something once the OS is released.

Glad I am on mac for the moment. Not looking forward to getting a new rig this summer with Win 8 on it though :S

Nooo way, that UI is hiddeous. I have a $15 upgrade since I have a newer gaming laptop but I'm just fine with windows 7 as it is.

Never once did I say or imply that you had to prove to me that you've used Windows 8. Good job putting words in my mouth. If your post hadn't been filled with innaccuracies, I wouldn't be skeptical but it is, so I am. You don't have to prove anything to me. Quite frankly, I don't care if you have or haven't used Windows 8.

Again, you should've specified. MBirdy88 questioned your post as well so clearly it wasn't as well understood as you seem to think it was. Again, specify and you won't have any problems. Simple concept.

You make a lot of assumptions in your posts. Microsoft has every right to roll out its own app store on its OS and if Microsoft simply restricted people from installing their own applications, I'd agree with you. Seeing as this is not the case, your argument has little merit. The Windows 8 App Store gives consumers an easier way to find new applications and developers an easier way to market and sell their applications. Microsoft isn't taking away or de-emphasizing anything. Of course they have a vested interest in people using their App Store but no options have been removed from users in Windows 8, if anything, users have moreoptions now.

Yes, of course, Microsoft is confounding me, of course.

I like Windows 8 and I have no problems with the Metro dashboard. Coming to this forum to dispel innaccuracies about the OS does not mean I am being confounded or attempting to confound anyone here. Like I said, if you had specified about the software, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You should've been clearer. You can't blame me after you made a general statement and I interpreted differently than you intended. As I said before, others interpreted your statement differently as well. Don't single me out because of your mistake.

And I didn't download Start 8 because I wasn't enjoying the OS. I don't have the problem you have with using or booting into Metro. I downloaded it because I wanted to try it out. Simple as that.

The_Game21x

Yes, it's far better to assume that a person discussing details like sideloading and locked stores is ignorant of the well known desktop, instead of assuming the discussion was about Metro (or whatever they call it) alone. Whatever gets your gander up... I take it we all found out now the details of the discussion and can move forward? Or am I still assuming to much?

As I have discussed, I don't find MS's Windows Store to be a concern by itself. I find that making Metro the default view for the new OS - with no inherent bypass, and a demonstrated history of confounding workarounds, and then using their position to become the sole source of software able to run in such a view going forward to be a genuine concern. That's how you ease a platform towards a new way of doing things. I'd probably think more like you if I thought that this represented a final step in the evolution of Windows. But I don't. In fact I find such assumptions naive.

Does the Windows Store make finding software easier? Perhaps. It's THE one stop shop for Metro, so I guess it eliminates the "horrible" step of looking anywhere else... after that, I find the benefits to the consumer debatable at best. Does the Metro inteface benefit the PC user? Perhaps for some that fancy the look, but it could be acheived more simply by devoting an optional skin to it, instead of attempting to decide for every end user how they'll greet their PC going forward.

For me, the Windows PC platform's chief advantage historically has been its openness. That lack of central authority gave developers the freedom to make and market any piece of software they wanted and allowed any PC user to find and run any PC software that fit their needs, over time giving us by far the largest and most diverse software offerings of any platform. That openess also allowed us to tailor the look and feel of our PCs to fit our own tastes and needs. In my own household I have an HTPC that boots into it's own custom interface, and a child's computer that boots into a special custom interface for her, in addition to the desktop and laptops my wife and I use regularly. Does metro kill that functionality? No, but it seeks to disrupt it, all for the benefit of MS, not me. They don't care about getting people to use Metro because they believe it's an inherently better way, no matter your personal needs. They want you to see metro because they want you to buy metro apps. Is that their right? Sure (at least, it could be. I can at least see the possibility that governments could view it as an unfair use of their monopoly, as with IE some years ago). Is it good for me though? No. And I'm not a MS advocate, I'm a Me advocate.

Are Windows Store and Metro as constituted the end of an open PC platform? No. Are they a closed system overlaid onto an open platform? Absolutely. Where they take that from here depneds on consumer and corporate reaction to these forced changes. I find it hard to argue them as anything more innocent than an experiment by MS to find out what the modern user will tolerate. That they find them important enough to fight for belies (at least to me) just how important they find these closed systems to their plans going forward.

This ridiculous UI is the reason why I won't be buying Windows 8.

Windows 8 is sooo much faster. And I love how you can just click on an iso image and it creates a virtual drive, mounts it and opens in a new window as if you are simply opening a folder. I'm getting it.

[QUOTE="GamerwillzPS"]

This ridiculous UI is the reason why I won't be buying Windows 8.

PSP107