Without PC Gaming. There is no Console Gaming.

Through the competition of PC HARDWARE manufacturers (Intel, AMD, Nvidia, IBM), have come the components of all current gen consoles. The bleeding edge technology all of these companies produce go into their PC GAMING products, and eventually to console hardware as byproducts of this technology.

Realised this after reading this article where VALVe defends the PC gaming industry. Great read.

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

I read somewhere that without PC gaming driving computer technology foreward, consoles will cease to utilize the latest and greatest technology and thus become weaker then they would have been if PC gaming had continued to strive.

It makes sense too since companies like IBM and Intel as well as Nvidia need PC gaming to survive that way they can sell their products and make a profit so they can put that money to more use upgrading their technology.

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

Vaan7

How do you figure?

[QUOTE="Vaan7"]

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

VoodooGamer

How do you figure?

Sounds like a new wok7.

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

Vaan7

So... shooters and racers, both used to be a very PC thing... and now they're dominant in consoles...hmmm....

What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...mccoyca112

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

Didn't PC gaming come around AFTER consoles?Bigboi500

[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"][QUOTE="Vaan7"]

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

mjarantilla

How do you figure?

Sounds like a new wok7.

Hmm, Vaan7...Wok7, very peculiar... :? I think Wok needs to find a new number to rape.

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...SimpJee

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

Yeah, if you want to pay the equivalent of a next gen console EVERY YEAR to upgrade your PC.

[QUOTE="Vaan7"]

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

VoodooGamer

How do you figure?

Maybe my statmenet was to rash, but the console makers just go to the PC part companies for convineince.

This topic is like saying there would be no 3D animation like in movies without PC Gaming, since those PC companies make work station cards as well.

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...SimpJee

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

:roll:Whatever is what I say. If anything, it sounds like they're angry at consoles. There are reasons why I choose consoles over pc gaming but to each his own.

its a grey area. yes the PC is always pushing forewards on the hardware front. but if u look at consoles....there not exactly PC hardware.

look at the PS3 for example. it uses the CELL....which has nothing to do with PCs at all. outside the PS3...they were designed for certain types of servers, HD appliances and such like. the progression of the PC had little to do with it. the ram is industry standard stuff of course (though XDR is nto available for PCs as far as i know)...as is the graphics card. so it wasnt completly dependant on the advancement of PC tech the PS2 was even less dependant....everything in the PS2 was developed in house by sony.

then theres the wii.....very little in that has anything to do with the PC. the GPU, despite being developed by ATI, is a completly different kettly of fish (artx, which ninty used to own but ATI now have, developed the chip). its closest comparison is a geofrce 2 but even then...its a long stretch. some of the ram is available on the PC at all (the 1t ram) and the CPU is a modified power PC bit.

the 360 does have alot more in common with the PC on a hardware level....but it was also the first to get the unified shaders we now see in the radeon HD series. that didnt arrive on PC until months after. then it gor its tripple core CPU while the PC was still on dual core ones (i dont think core2s were even out when the 360 was released..but im not sure).

really, on a hardware level, consoles are not dependant on PC gaming advances at all (and vice versa). PC advancement is mostly industry driven (not necessarily game industry either). consoles are driven only be the demands of their manufacturers.

what could be argued though is that the PC sets the pace for high end console development. a good starting point when making a console is to try and predict where the PC will be in 5 years time in terms of horsepower.

but i dont think one is dependant on the other.

[QUOTE="SimpJee"]

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...mccoyca112

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

:roll:Whatever is what I say. If anything, it sounds like they're angry at consoles. There are reasons why I choose consoles over pc gaming but to each his own.

Who's angry? Valve?

[QUOTE="SimpJee"]

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...BigJerm1

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

Yeah, if you want to pay the equivalent of a next gen console EVERY YEAR to upgrade your PC.

I don't agree with his statement but I don't agree with yours either. As I have said and as everyone has said only the INITIAL price is the most expensive, everything else is pretty cheap. It costed me the price of the PS3 this console generation and I'm playing games like Crysis on High settings at higher resolutions than 720p.

GPU: 8800GT($180)
CPU: E6750:($170)
RAM: 2g($64)

its a grey area. yes the PC is always pushing forewards on the hardware front. but if u look at consoles....there not exactly PC hardware.

look at the PS3 for example. it uses the CELL....which has nothing to do with PCs at all. outside the PS3...they were designed for certain types of servers, HD appliances and such like. the progression of the PC had little to do with it. the ram is industry standard stuff of course (though XDR is nto available for PCs as far as i know)...as is the graphics card. so it wasnt completly dependant on the advancement of PC tech the PS2 was even less dependant....everything in the PS2 was developed in house by sony.

then theres the wii.....very little in that has anything to do with the PC. the GPU, despite being developed by ATI, is a completly different kettly of fish (artx, which ninty used to own but ATI now have, developed the chip). its closest comparison is a geofrce 2 but even then...its a long stretch. some of the ram is available on the PC at all (the 1t ram) and the CPU is a modified power PC bit.

the 360 does have alot more in common with the PC on a hardware level....but it was also the first to get the unified shaders we now see in the radeon HD series. that didnt arrive on PC until months after. then it gor its tripple core CPU while the PC was still on dual core ones (i dont think core2s were even out when the 360 was released..but im not sure).

really, on a hardware level, consoles are not dependant on PC gaming advances at all (and vice versa). PC advancement is mostly industry driven (not necessarily game industry either). consoles are driven only be the demands of their manufacturers.

what could be argued though is that the PC sets the pace for high end console development. a good starting point when making a console is to try and predict where the PC will be in 5 years time in terms of horsepower.

but i dont think one is dependant on the other.

osan0

The CPU is not very important compared to the GPU. Sony likes to flaunt its CPU power, but it doesnt help games THAT much. If they had put a real 7800gtx instead of a 7800gt with half the shaders cut out, the PS3 really would be kicking the xbox360's ass graphically.

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

Vaan7

wow..yeah..

doom

wolfenstein

quake

call of duty

marathon

elder scrolls

grand theft auto

tetris

half life

system shock

..yeah these games didnt affect consoles at all:roll:

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Didn't PC gaming come around AFTER consoles?-Sphere-

[QUOTE="-Sphere-"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Didn't PC gaming come around AFTER consoles?Bigboi500

[QUOTE="Vaan7"]

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

devious742

wow..yeah..

doom

wolfenstein

quake

call of duty

marathon

elder scrolls

grand theft auto

tetris

half life

system shock

..yeah these games didnt affect consoles at all:roll:

Most of these the games and/or their sequels were better on the consoles. but they didn't influence them. Tetris however did for the Gameboy.

[QUOTE="-Sphere-"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Didn't PC gaming come around AFTER consoles?Bigboi500

I thought the first personal computer was the Apple 1 or 2 which came out in 1980, 10 years after the Atari.

[QUOTE="Vaan7"][QUOTE="devious742"][QUOTE="Vaan7"]

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

Pietrooper

wow..yeah..

doom

wolfenstein

quake

call of duty

marathon

elder scrolls

grand theft auto

tetris

half life

system shock

..yeah these games didnt affect consoles at all:roll:

Most of these the games and/or their sequels were better on the consoles. but they didn't influence them. Tetris however did for the Gameboy.

That means they influenced them... because their sequels went to consoles...christ, are you stupid or something? :|

Dammit Kirk! These are people were talking about here...

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"][QUOTE="-Sphere-"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Didn't PC gaming come around AFTER consoles?VoodooGamer

I thought the first personal computer was the Apple 1 or 2 which came out in 1980, 10 years after the Atari.

[QUOTE="Vaan7"][QUOTE="devious742"][QUOTE="Vaan7"]

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

Pietrooper

wow..yeah..

doom

wolfenstein

quake

call of duty

marathon

elder scrolls

grand theft auto

tetris

half life

system shock

..yeah these games didnt affect consoles at all:roll:

Most of these the games and/or their sequels were better on the consoles. but they didn't influence them. Tetris however did for the Gameboy.

That means they influenced them... because their sequels went to consoles...christ, are you stupid or something? :|

And these sequels influenced these consoles to do what? If the answer is sell, then I'll give you credit, but don't call me stupid again for thinking the word influence meant something stronger, like in this case, an evolution in those consoles.

[QUOTE="osan0"]

Wartzay

The CPU is not very important compared to the GPU. Sony likes to flaunt its CPU power, but it doesnt help games THAT much. If they had put a real 7800gtx instead of a 7800gt with half the shaders cut out, the PS3 really would be kicking the xbox360's ass graphically.

the CPU is a pretty fundimental part of a game machine really if u think about it. lets leave aside sonys cell boasting (personally i dont think its gods gift at meeting the demands of games) and just look at what a CPU does.

1) it runs the game logic....the absolute fundimentals of a game. a GPU doesent do that...thats the CPUs job.

2) it runs the physics engine. GPUS can do physics on paper at least (and nvidia are makign big head ways in this area i believe) but at the mo, the CPU does ALL of the physics work.

3) AI....all run on the CPU. very important in alot of games.

4) some graphics work. even with modern 8800s, the CPU still has to do some graphics work. it also has to make sure the necessary data is sent to the CPU.

5) on alot of systems now (including the consoles) the CPU does the sound work.

6) dealing with user input....another fundimental of games. it also deals with other inputs (eg network code for multiplayer games).

its an absolutely essential piece of kit..more essential than a GPU...for games. a GPU just does graphics at the mo...thats it. u can run a game on just a CPU (eg outcast released in 1999....used a voxel engine so the CPU had to do pretty much everything). the same cant be said for a GPU (yet anyway).

this gen console gaming = watered down PC gaming

360 = watered down PC

PS3 = watered down 360

So let me get this straight....without PC's there is no console gaming? so PC's all ways have to inclusively include gaming right?
last I checked most home consoles and home gaming actually predate the trend of home computers.

Because in essence, basic function, and hardware a console is a specialized computer any ways.
So no without pc gaming there is no console gaming is false pc gaming could die the industry for it could drop out but PC's would still survive pc's for graphics rendering, pc's for buisness, pcs for building console games would still survive without pc gaming.
WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]So let me get this straight....without PC's there is no console gaming? so PC's all ways have to inclusively include gaming right?
last I checked most home consoles and home gaming actually predate the trend of home computers.

Because in essence, basic function, and hardware a console is a specialized computer any ways.
So no without pc gaming there is no console gaming is false pc gaming could die the industry for it could drop out but PC's would still survive pc's for graphics rendering, pc's for buisness, pcs for building console games would still survive without pc gaming.

Rougehunter

They would do what they always do Pinky, try to take ove... oh wait, the consoles makers would just make thier own hardware like they used to before.

LOL Wut?

Without PC's, there's no console gaming because the games are made on computers.

But PC Gaming? lol it doesn't influence a thing

Vaan7

\facepalm

Through the competition of PC HARDWARE manufacturers (Intel, AMD, Nvidia, IBM), have come the components of all current gen consoles.

SimpJee

Don't be so full of yourself as to think we console gamers exist solely by the grace of PC gamers. It's simply not the case, and history's on my side on this one.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"][QUOTE="-Sphere-"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Didn't PC gaming come around AFTER consoles?-Sphere-

Willingly classifying yourself as a fanboy: Taking the hassle out of SW.

the CPU is a pretty fundimental part of a game machine really if u think about it. lets leave aside sonys cell boasting (personally i dont think its gods gift at meeting the demands of games) and just look at what a CPU does.

1) it runs the game logic....the absolute fundimentals of a game. a GPU doesent do that...thats the CPUs job.

2) it runs the physics engine. GPUS can do physics on paper at least (and nvidia are makign big head ways in this area i believe) but at the mo, the CPU does ALL of the physics work.

3) AI....all run on the CPU. very important in alot of games.

4) some graphics work. even with modern 8800s, the CPU still has to do some graphics work. it also has to make sure the necessary data is sent to the CPU.

5) on alot of systems now (including the consoles) the CPU does the sound work.

6) dealing with user input....another fundimental of games. it also deals with other inputs (eg network code for multiplayer games).

its an absolutely essential piece of kit..more essential than a GPU...for games. a GPU just does graphics at the mo...thats it. u can run a game on just a CPU (eg outcast released in 1999....used a voxel engine so the CPU had to do pretty much everything). the same cant be said for a GPU (yet anyway).

osan0

Today's games are GPU limited rather than CPU limited. If this was 10 years ago then the CELL probably would of had a big advantage. But that is no longer the case, unless you consider a CPU rendering graphics in software mode to be something spectacular. Even with physics, AI and a few off hand tasks the CPU peforms for gaming. I still hover around a average of 33% cpu power in use. Which means I have a full 67% free. If games were so CPU intensive then I wouldn't have much CPU power left to spare.

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...SimpJee

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

...Oh,the irony.

Didn't PC gaming come around AFTER consoles?Bigboi500

lol

[QUOTE="BigJerm1"][QUOTE="SimpJee"]

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...VoodooGamer

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

Yeah, if you want to pay the equivalent of a next gen console EVERY YEAR to upgrade your PC.

I don't agree with his statement but I don't agree with yours either. As I have said and as everyone has said only the INITIAL price is the most expensive, everything else is pretty cheap. It costed me the price of the PS3 this console generation and I'm playing games like Crysis on High settings at higher resolutions than 720p.

GPU: 8800GT($180)
CPU: E6750:($170)
RAM: 2g($64)

He said "all the latest tech." How much are the newest top of the line video cards going for these days? If you want to keep up with the latest technology(and I'm only saying to upgrade once a year), you're going to spend way more than what you payed for your 8800 GT.

[QUOTE="SimpJee"]

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...789shadow

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

...Oh,the irony.

Yeah, seriously. Your new PC is on its way to being obsolete the day you fire it up for the first time.

[QUOTE="789shadow"][QUOTE="SimpJee"]

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...BigJerm1

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

...Oh,the irony.

Yeah, seriously. Your new PC is on its way to being obsolete the day you fire it up for the first time.

And? Doesn't mean you have to upgrade right away. You could wait 2 or 3 years before you do.

[QUOTE="BigJerm1"][QUOTE="789shadow"][QUOTE="SimpJee"]

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]What is this? "if it wasnt for me, you'd be nothing!" kinda thing....Thats what it sounds like. True but does anyone care...bladeeagle

You should care, this is also why PC gaming > Console gaming. We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that's out of date the day they release the specs.

...Oh,the irony.

Yeah, seriously. Your new PC is on its way to being obsolete the day you fire it up for the first time.

And? Doesn't mean you have to upgrade right away. You could wait 2 or 3 years before you do.

The post I responded to clearly stated that "We get all the latest tech, you get the slag hardware that'sout of date the day they release the specs." Well, if you want all the latest tech, you're not going to get it by upgrading every 2-3 years. You can't possibly be too blind to see that.

[QUOTE="osan0"]

Ramadear

Today's games are GPU limited rather than CPU limited. If this was 10 years ago then the CELL probably would of had a big advantage. But that is no longer the case, unless you consider a CPU rendering graphics in software mode to be something spectacular. Even with physics, AI and a few off hand tasks the CPU peforms for gaming. I still hover around a average of 33% cpu power in use. Which means I have a full 67% free. If games were so CPU intensive then I wouldn't have much CPU power left to spare.

hurray, someone in SW with a brain, :P

Didn't PC gaming come around AFTER consoles?Bigboi500

Yeah I think it was arcades then consoles advertise as a "Hey kids! Now you can play your favorite games at the comfort of your own home!" kinda thing. Not sure about computer gaming I think they were becoming a standard so companies made games for them and they started to catch on. Then handheld for gaming on the go and to this day I think it's a lame idea unless you have some sort of job were you have to travel cross country every week and don't really have a home you stay at for long.

EDIT: please note I got this from G4 "Game makers" and they made up a lot of crap in that show.