World of Warcraft has the BEST combat in any RPG ever.
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* click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click*
...Woooo. :|
Verge_6
Thanks for describing combat in the majority of RPGS? =/
[QUOTE="Verge_6"]* click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click*
...Woooo. :|
Espada12
Thanks for describing combat in the majority of RPGS? =/
Then what makes WoW's combat so much better then if that's how it is most RPGs?[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]* click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click*
...Woooo. :|
Verge_6
Thanks for describing combat in the majority of RPGS? =/
Then what makes WoW's combat so much better then if that's how it is most RPGs? I don't think it's any better honestly I was just pointing that out :P. It's good for an MMO, it gets away from that slow pace they normally have but I certainly don't think it's better than witcher.
Shadow Hearts is better.JandurinWow. Well said. Quoted because it's so true it had to be re-quoted. I tried liking WoW, but I ultimately tired of it.
Is that weird? :?
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Espada12"]Then what makes WoW's combat so much better then if that's how it is most RPGs? I don't think it's any better honestly I was just pointing that out :P. It's good for an MMO, it gets away from that slow pace they normally have but I certainly don't think it's better than witcher. Alright then, my point that I find it's combat boring and not excelling over most RPGs stands.Â
Thanks for describing combat in the majority of RPGS? =/
Espada12
[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]* click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click*
...Woooo. :|
Verge_6
Thanks for describing combat in the majority of RPGS? =/
Then what makes WoW's combat so much better then if that's how it is most RPGs? Who's combat system do you think does a better job? Let's put aside the First Person RPGs on the side though, as they are tailored differently. .[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Espada12"]Then what makes WoW's combat so much better then if that's how it is most RPGs? Who's combat system do you think does a better job? Let's put aside the First Person RPGs on the side though, as they are tailored differently. . Mass Effect. and any other RPG that gives me more involvement with the attacks than most point-and-click combat RPGs.Â
Thanks for describing combat in the majority of RPGS? =/
Mehdi1984
Is that weird? :?
I gave WoW a chance, and I got pretty into it for a bit. Then my sister said she was going to start playing again, so I quit. No way I would pay more than 60 bucks for WoW. And the fact that if you stop paying, you stop playing? Just against my code.
[QUOTE="Mehdi1984"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]Then what makes WoW's combat so much better then if that's how it is most RPGs?Verge_6Who's combat system do you think does a better job? Let's put aside the First Person RPGs on the side though, as they are tailored differently. . Mass Effect. and any other RPG that gives me more involvement with the attacks than most point-and-click combat RPGs. Mass Effect is point and click just as much as WoW is point and click. By the time players hit 60, I would find it shocking if they still "point and clicked" unless they are just really bad at games. Why do I get the feeling people in this thread have played Diablo 2, and are only assuming what WoW is about without actually playing it?
WoW's combat is terribly dull, it has taken the worst aspect of RPGs and built an idol to them. Min / Maxing, Rules Lawyering, Power Gaming, and Macro / Command spam "strategy" (a misuse of the term, frankly, since it rewards tedium over wit ) are not all there should be to a role-playing game. It's a munchkin game ad nauseum. Y'know what had a great combat system? Fallout - bloody mess, someone's head exploding! Awesome. Fallout let you actually *role play* your combat experience, you weren't a hulking brute because you checked "warrior" in the little character creation box, you were one because you picked up a stick - and you might not be good at it, hell you might be waving a spear at a death claw, but your getting killed is part of that experience. Fallout had, by far, the most "role played" combat experience - if you want something about skill, get an FPS, nothing in "WoW' is "skilled", unless you consider spending hundreds of hours grinding for loot and configuring your macros to be a "skill" - and I fail to see what "role" that's playing. The only c1ass in WoW is "accountant" because that's what s serious WoW players are doing - accounting, sitting there staring at the ledger and moving numbers around.subrosian
Sorry I disagree, every rpg is about min maxing.... or Hybrid, either way.... all RPGs are about the numbers.... the combat in WoW is mroe engaging than most RPGs ... wether you think it requires more "skill" or not .....
I am going to be playing through the trial over the break but I already can tell that it is definitely not the best combat in any RPG. Out of most of the RPG's I've played or seen, that title would probably be held by Fallout (in terms of turn-based combat) or Baldur's Gate II.foxhound_foxWhich means you are under level 20, and have hardly scratched the surface. Pretty much every class under 20 will give you like (a) 1 Buff, (b) 1 Main Special Attack and (c) One ability. I highly suggest sticking around until you at least get to level 45. It's roughly then when the game REALLY starts to pick up nowadays.
I'll be the first to admit, that 1-60 is not very fun IMO, unless you are leveling with a buddy (hopefully with the Refer-a-friend x3 exp bonus). It was fun before, but those areas aren't that populated and look aged. However, post-60... it's a blast. 1-60 was amazing when the game first came out because the world was populated and the graphics were fantastic.
[QUOTE="subrosian"]WoW's combat is terribly dull, it has taken the worst aspect of RPGs and built an idol to them. Min / Maxing, Rules Lawyering, Power Gaming, and Macro / Command spam "strategy" (a misuse of the term, frankly, since it rewards tedium over wit ) are not all there should be to a role-playing game. It's a munchkin game ad nauseum. Y'know what had a great combat system? Fallout - bloody mess, someone's head exploding! Awesome. Fallout let you actually *role play* your combat experience, you weren't a hulking brute because you checked "warrior" in the little character creation box, you were one because you picked up a stick - and you might not be good at it, hell you might be waving a spear at a death claw, but your getting killed is part of that experience. Fallout had, by far, the most "role played" combat experience - if you want something about skill, get an FPS, nothing in "WoW' is "skilled", unless you consider spending hundreds of hours grinding for loot and configuring your macros to be a "skill" - and I fail to see what "role" that's playing. The only c1ass in WoW is "accountant" because that's what s serious WoW players are doing - accounting, sitting there staring at the ledger and moving numbers around.Mehdi1984Let me guess.... you quit WoW before the PVP overhaul? You don't grind for PVP gear. You earn it. The better you and your team are in Arenas, the better the gear you get, the higher up the ladder you climb, the harder the teams you get matched up with. If WoW didn't have skill, then why has WoW's pvp been embraced by gaming leagues? If there was no skill, then the rankings of Arena players would be random, instead there are obvious trends where "good teams" do better then pug teams. Grinding by any other name is still grinding. You don't "earn" your gear via skill, you earn it by having a clan full of people who are also addicts, and also willing to replay the same things over, and over, and over to accumulate the wealth / reputation / experience / practice necessary to get _________ which lets them get to the next ________ so they can have the best __________. It's a dull grind. It gets renamed, or re-disquised every few months, but it's the same crap. - WoW gaming leagues, along with most of pro-gaming, are built around popularity. WoW is included because it's popular, not because it's a good test of any sort of "gaming skill". "but but but... people can be better than other people at WoW!" - wonderful, I can be better at banging my head into a table repeatedly, it still doesn't make it an indication of anything. People who are willing to pay $15 a month to develop carpal tunnel syndrome are also statistically likely to buy into tournaments, conventions, and game-related merchandise, under some notion that they're "part of something" and that the unwashed masses "don't get it". - WoW is "the best" in the same way Buffy the Vampire Slayer was the "best vampire show ever". Popularity doesn't equal quality, it never has, and it never will.
I'll be the first to admit, that 1-60 is not very fun IMO, unless you are leveling with a buddy (hopefully with the Refer-a-friend x3 exp bonus). It was fun before, but those areas aren't that populated and look aged. However, post-60... it's a blast. 1-60 was amazing when the game first came out because the world was populated and the graphics were fantastic.Mehdi1984
If I have to grind through 60 levels to get to "the fun" then it is obvious the game is not "the best." I'm going to be playing WoW for the story and world... not the booty-questing.
[QUOTE="Mehdi1984"]I'll be the first to admit, that 1-60 is not very fun IMO, unless you are leveling with a buddy (hopefully with the Refer-a-friend x3 exp bonus). It was fun before, but those areas aren't that populated and look aged. However, post-60... it's a blast. 1-60 was amazing when the game first came out because the world was populated and the graphics were fantastic.foxhound_fox
If I have to grind through 60 levels to get to "the fun" then it is obvious the game is not "the best." I'm going to be playing WoW for the story and world... not the booty-questing. Dude your just late to the party, the doesn't mean the game sucks, it's an MMO, it's constantly evolving, ofc the core community is up at max level, and ofc that's where the game really shines.
[QUOTE="Mehdi1984"][QUOTE="subrosian"]WoW's combat is terribly dull, it has taken the worst aspect of RPGs and built an idol to them. Min / Maxing, Rules Lawyering, Power Gaming, and Macro / Command spam "strategy" (a misuse of the term, frankly, since it rewards tedium over wit ) are not all there should be to a role-playing game. It's a munchkin game ad nauseum. Y'know what had a great combat system? Fallout - bloody mess, someone's head exploding! Awesome. Fallout let you actually *role play* your combat experience, you weren't a hulking brute because you checked "warrior" in the little character creation box, you were one because you picked up a stick - and you might not be good at it, hell you might be waving a spear at a death claw, but your getting killed is part of that experience. Fallout had, by far, the most "role played" combat experience - if you want something about skill, get an FPS, nothing in "WoW' is "skilled", unless you consider spending hundreds of hours grinding for loot and configuring your macros to be a "skill" - and I fail to see what "role" that's playing. The only c1ass in WoW is "accountant" because that's what s serious WoW players are doing - accounting, sitting there staring at the ledger and moving numbers around.subrosianLet me guess.... you quit WoW before the PVP overhaul? You don't grind for PVP gear. You earn it. The better you and your team are in Arenas, the better the gear you get, the higher up the ladder you climb, the harder the teams you get matched up with. If WoW didn't have skill, then why has WoW's pvp been embraced by gaming leagues? If there was no skill, then the rankings of Arena players would be random, instead there are obvious trends where "good teams" do better then pug teams. Grinding by any other name is still grinding. You don't "earn" your gear via skill, you earn it by having a clan full of people who are also addicts, and also willing to replay the same things over, and over, and over to accumulate the wealth / reputation / experience / practice necessary to get _________ which lets them get to the next ________ so they can have the best __________. It's a dull grind. It gets renamed, or re-disquised every few months, but it's the same crap. - WoW gaming leagues, along with most of pro-gaming, are built around popularity. WoW is included because it's popular, not because it's a good test of any sort of "gaming skill". "but but but... people can be better than other people at WoW!" - wonderful, I can be better at banging my head into a table repeatedly, it still doesn't make it an indication of anything. People who are willing to pay $15 a month to develop carpal tunnel syndrome are also statistically likely to buy into tournaments, conventions, and game-related merchandise, under some notion that they're "part of something" and that the unwashed masses "don't get it". - WoW is "the best" in the same way Buffy the Vampire Slayer was the "best vampire show ever". Popularity doesn't equal quality, it never has, and it never will.
Once again, Looks like you quite before the PVP and PVE overhaul well over a year ago... maybe two now. Because guess what.... PVP gear and PVE gear doesn't work that way anymore dude.
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That said rebuttal about the skill involved is rather childish... banging your head on the table better then other? what? Please tell me you can put up a better argument then that. That said, where are these statistics you are coming up with? OH wait...... they aren't statistics... you're actually making them up in order to artificially attempt to add value to your rebuttal.
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Why did WoW win Game of the Year over other games if it wasn't quality? Why is Lich King already getting heralded reviews?
[QUOTE="subrosian"]WoW's combat is terribly dull, it has taken the worst aspect of RPGs and built an idol to them. Min / Maxing, Rules Lawyering, Power Gaming, and Macro / Command spam "strategy" (a misuse of the term, frankly, since it rewards tedium over wit ) are not all there should be to a role-playing game. It's a munchkin game ad nauseum. Y'know what had a great combat system? Fallout - bloody mess, someone's head exploding! Awesome. Fallout let you actually *role play* your combat experience, you weren't a hulking brute because you checked "warrior" in the little character creation box, you were one because you picked up a stick - and you might not be good at it, hell you might be waving a spear at a death claw, but your getting killed is part of that experience. Fallout had, by far, the most "role played" combat experience - if you want something about skill, get an FPS, nothing in "WoW' is "skilled", unless you consider spending hundreds of hours grinding for loot and configuring your macros to be a "skill" - and I fail to see what "role" that's playing. The only c1ass in WoW is "accountant" because that's what s serious WoW players are doing - accounting, sitting there staring at the ledger and moving numbers around.Mehdi1984Let me guess.... you quit WoW before the PVP overhaul? You don't grind for PVP gear. You earn it. The better you and your team are in Arenas, the better the gear you get, the higher up the ladder you climb, the harder the teams you get matched up with. If WoW didn't have skill, then why has WoW's pvp been embraced by gaming leagues? If there was no skill, then the rankings of Arena players would be random, instead there are obvious trends where "good teams" do better then pug teams. Grinding by any other name is still grinding. You don't "earn" your gear via skill, you earn it by having a clan full of people who are also addicts, and also willing to replay the same things over, and over, and over to accumulate the wealth / reputation / experience / practice necessary to get _________ which lets them get to the next ________ so they can have the best __________. It's a dull grind. It gets renamed, or re-disquised every few months, but it's the same crap. - WoW gaming leagues, along with most of pro-gaming, are built around popularity. WoW is included because it's popular, not because it's a good test of any sort of "gaming skill". "but but but... people can be better than other people at WoW!" - wonderful, I can be better at banging my head into a table repeatedly, it still doesn't make it an indication of anything. People who are willing to pay $15 a month to develop carpal tunnel syndrome are also statistically likely to buy into tournaments, conventions, and game-related merchandise, under some notion that they're "part of something" and that the unwashed masses "don't get it". - WoW is "the best" in the same way Buffy the Vampire Slayer was the "best vampire show ever". Popularity doesn't equal quality, it never has, and it never will. Dude you clearly don't play WoW, you can get the best gear EXTREMELY fast if your pro at pvp, you just need the rating by beating other arena teams, if you lose a game you lose rating, the skilled are up at the top brackets, the noobs are down at the lower brackets. You seem like a knowledgable poster, but your failing right here, as if Blizzard aren't one of if not the greatest dev's on the planet.
[QUOTE="subrosian"]WoW's combat is terribly dull, it has taken the worst aspect of RPGs and built an idol to them. Min / Maxing, Rules Lawyering, Power Gaming, and Macro / Command spam "strategy" (a misuse of the term, frankly, since it rewards tedium over wit ) are not all there should be to a role-playing game. It's a munchkin game ad nauseum. Y'know what had a great combat system? Fallout - bloody mess, someone's head exploding! Awesome. Fallout let you actually *role play* your combat experience, you weren't a hulking brute because you checked "warrior" in the little character creation box, you were one because you picked up a stick - and you might not be good at it, hell you might be waving a spear at a death claw, but your getting killed is part of that experience. Fallout had, by far, the most "role played" combat experience - if you want something about skill, get an FPS, nothing in "WoW' is "skilled", unless you consider spending hundreds of hours grinding for loot and configuring your macros to be a "skill" - and I fail to see what "role" that's playing. The only c1ass in WoW is "accountant" because that's what s serious WoW players are doing - accounting, sitting there staring at the ledger and moving numbers around.Eddie-VedderDude I respect you as a poster, but I don't think your being fair to the topic on hand, this isn't about how much everyone hates WoW and why they hate WoW, look at the combat, the balance, the pace, the fluidity, the functionality, and it easily tops the charts in the RPG genre, it might not be the best for you but it still is extremely good and head and shoulders above average. And skill is having crap gear and getting places in arena for example. If you truly believe WoW takes no skill... WoW doesn't take creative skill, sorry. It is a game of rout memorization, repetition, and the mundane. It rewards people who read GameFAQs and message boards more than it rewards someone who is simply *clever*, *quick-reflexed*, or *intelligent*. The top players are where they are because they know how to exploit combinations of abilities and have played countless hours, not because they, as gamers, and as roleplayers, are able to think, talk, or invent their way out of a scenario. - No, the combat in WoW is terrible, compared to a table-top game, it is the furthest possible thing from a true RPG experience. Pace? Slow. Fluidity? None. Functionality? It's function is to be a grindtastic time-sink, not a creative, enlightening, thought-expanding experience. If its functional description were "create a mundane experience that uses up as much time as possible", well then, mission accomplished. - "Tops the charts"? Seriously? No - you're letting personal enjoyment cloud REALITY - that WoW is a narrow, fixed, heavily scripted, heavily repetitive world where, at the end of the day, people are running macros to win combat based on tried-and-true sequences, the variations and "ability / response" sequences are rout, the game is memorized, the play *changes*, the macros *change*, but the activites are frankly similar enough that it's easy to see why it works. People make it a *habit* - were you a non-WoW player, giving the game simple one hour as high-level character, against the "core proto RPG" experience, the gold standard, a DM running a loose proto-GURPs system, or the like, you would never pick up a mouse again. - Anyone claiming WoW has even "good" combat has been tainted by the intentional behavior-reward conditioning built into the game, rather than providing an honest perspective. By comparisson? WoW is mediocre at best.
[QUOTE="Mehdi1984"]I'll be the first to admit, that 1-60 is not very fun IMO, unless you are leveling with a buddy (hopefully with the Refer-a-friend x3 exp bonus). It was fun before, but those areas aren't that populated and look aged. However, post-60... it's a blast. 1-60 was amazing when the game first came out because the world was populated and the graphics were fantastic.foxhound_fox
If I have to grind through 60 levels to get to "the fun" then it is obvious the game is not "the best." I'm going to be playing WoW for the story and world... not the booty-questing. I didn't insinuate you grind your way to 60. FYI... the level cap is at lvl 80, so there really isn't much "booty questing" at 60. What I mean is, that is when you will start seeing denser populations of players as you get to Outlands. The game shines in the social experience found with playing with other players, over solo-playing.
[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="subrosian"]WoW's combat is terribly dull, it has taken the worst aspect of RPGs and built an idol to them. Min / Maxing, Rules Lawyering, Power Gaming, and Macro / Command spam "strategy" (a misuse of the term, frankly, since it rewards tedium over wit ) are not all there should be to a role-playing game. It's a munchkin game ad nauseum. Y'know what had a great combat system? Fallout - bloody mess, someone's head exploding! Awesome. Fallout let you actually *role play* your combat experience, you weren't a hulking brute because you checked "warrior" in the little character creation box, you were one because you picked up a stick - and you might not be good at it, hell you might be waving a spear at a death claw, but your getting killed is part of that experience. Fallout had, by far, the most "role played" combat experience - if you want something about skill, get an FPS, nothing in "WoW' is "skilled", unless you consider spending hundreds of hours grinding for loot and configuring your macros to be a "skill" - and I fail to see what "role" that's playing. The only c1ass in WoW is "accountant" because that's what s serious WoW players are doing - accounting, sitting there staring at the ledger and moving numbers around.subrosianDude I respect you as a poster, but I don't think your being fair to the topic on hand, this isn't about how much everyone hates WoW and why they hate WoW, look at the combat, the balance, the pace, the fluidity, the functionality, and it easily tops the charts in the RPG genre, it might not be the best for you but it still is extremely good and head and shoulders above average. And skill is having crap gear and getting places in arena for example. If you truly believe WoW takes no skill... WoW doesn't take skill, sorry. It rewards people who read GameFAQs and message boards more than it rewards someone who is simply *clever*, *quick-reflexed*, or *intelligent*. The top players are where they are because they know how to exploit combinations of abilities and have played countless hours, not because they, as gamers, and as roleplayers, are able to think, talk, or invent their way out of a scenario. - No, the combat in WoW is terrible, compared to a table-top game, it is the furthest possible thing from a true RPG experience. Pace? Slow. Fluidity? None. Functionality? It's function is to be a grindtastic time-sink, not a creative, enlightening, thought-expanding experience. If its functional description were "create a mundane experience that uses up as much time as possible", well then, mission accomplished. - "Tops the charts"? Seriously? No - you're letting personal enjoyment cloud REALITY - that WoW is a narrow, fixed, heavily scripted, heavily repetitive world where, at the end of the day, people are running macros to win combat based on tried-and-true sequences, the variations and "ability / response" sequences are rout, the game is memorized, the play *changes*, the macros *change*, but the activites are frankly similar enough that it's easy to see why it works. People make it a *habit* - were you a non-WoW player, giving the game simple one hour as high-level character, against the "core proto RPG" experience, the gold standard, a DM running a loose proto-GURPs system, or the like, you would never pick up a mouse again. - Anyone claiming WoW has even "good" combat has been tainted by the intentional behavior-reward conditioning built into the game, rather than providing an honest perspective. By comparisson? WoW is mediocre at best. I know, Il do what you do, considering your comparing a table top game, relevance how? Fallout? I choose text options that have no relevance to MY intelligence or skill level, I click spam in turns the same weapons throughout the entire game... I dont think you have a leg to stand on really... theres nothing intelligent or skillful about any RPGs, you go on and on about the grind.... the grind offers more progression, more competition .... what does a single player RPG offer? .... slow paced typically similar combat throughout.... notorius in all WRPGs especially.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Mehdi1984"] Who's combat system do you think does a better job? Let's put aside the First Person RPGs on the side though, as they are tailored differently. . Mehdi1984Mass Effect. and any other RPG that gives me more involvement with the attacks than most point-and-click combat RPGs. Mass Effect is point and click just as much as WoW is point and click. By the time players hit 60, I would find it shocking if they still "point and clicked" unless they are just really bad at games. Why do I get the feeling people in this thread have played Diablo 2, and are only assuming what WoW is about without actually playing it? Lol? TPS combat equates to WoWs? Srsly?
[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="subrosian"]WoW's combat is terribly dull, it has taken the worst aspect of RPGs and built an idol to them. Min / Maxing, Rules Lawyering, Power Gaming, and Macro / Command spam "strategy" (a misuse of the term, frankly, since it rewards tedium over wit ) are not all there should be to a role-playing game. It's a munchkin game ad nauseum. Y'know what had a great combat system? Fallout - bloody mess, someone's head exploding! Awesome. Fallout let you actually *role play* your combat experience, you weren't a hulking brute because you checked "warrior" in the little character creation box, you were one because you picked up a stick - and you might not be good at it, hell you might be waving a spear at a death claw, but your getting killed is part of that experience. Fallout had, by far, the most "role played" combat experience - if you want something about skill, get an FPS, nothing in "WoW' is "skilled", unless you consider spending hundreds of hours grinding for loot and configuring your macros to be a "skill" - and I fail to see what "role" that's playing. The only c1ass in WoW is "accountant" because that's what s serious WoW players are doing - accounting, sitting there staring at the ledger and moving numbers around.subrosianDude I respect you as a poster, but I don't think your being fair to the topic on hand, this isn't about how much everyone hates WoW and why they hate WoW, look at the combat, the balance, the pace, the fluidity, the functionality, and it easily tops the charts in the RPG genre, it might not be the best for you but it still is extremely good and head and shoulders above average. And skill is having crap gear and getting places in arena for example. If you truly believe WoW takes no skill... WoW doesn't take skill, sorry. It rewards people who read GameFAQs and message boards more than it rewards someone who is simply *clever*, *quick-reflexed*, or *intelligent*. The top players are where they are because they know how to exploit combinations of abilities and have played countless hours, not because they, as gamers, and as roleplayers, are able to think, talk, or invent their way out of a scenario. - No, the combat in WoW is terrible, compared to a table-top game, it is the furthest possible thing from a true RPG experience. Pace? Slow. Fluidity? None. Functionality? It's function is to be a grindtastic time-sink, not a creative, enlightening, thought-expanding experience. If its functional description were "create a mundane experience that uses up as much time as possible", well then, mission accomplished. - "Tops the charts"? Seriously? No - you're letting personal enjoyment cloud REALITY - that WoW is a narrow, fixed, heavily scripted, heavily repetitive world where, at the end of the day, people are running macros to win combat based on tried-and-true sequences, the variations and "ability / response" sequences are rout, the game is memorized, the play *changes*, the macros *change*, but the activites are frankly similar enough that it's easy to see why it works. People make it a *habit* - were you a non-WoW player, giving the game simple one hour as high-level character, against the "core proto RPG" experience, the gold standard, a DM running a loose proto-GURPs system, or the like, you would never pick up a mouse again. - Anyone claiming WoW has even "good" combat has been tainted by the intentional behavior-reward conditioning built into the game, rather than providing an honest perspective. By comparisson? WoW is mediocre at best. I'm sorry but after playing the "great" RPG's this generation, Mass Effects, Fallout's, Oblivion, to call WoW's combat mediocre means those games are absolute trash. And I'm not really sure what your point is, ofc people learn what's the best way to dps, or kill x class or do this or that, that's what all games are about, even fps's. I've played WoW long enough to say I've played with total friggen noobs, to total pro's who could read a situation and react instantly and flawlessly. I'm sorry but arena takes a lot more skill then non WoW players think, ofc gear is extremely important but it's also a reward for those who do chose to spend their life online. It wouldn't be fair to give someone that's been playing for a week the same exact chance at something then someone who's been their for years.
Let me get this straight, the arguement for WoW sucking now is because people want to stack up on stats? Seriously try harder.Eddie-VedderNo, my argument is the entirety of what I posted. Removing a single word of it, or any attempt to "summarize" or "simplify" what I've said removes the meaning, and will be considered an act of trolling. I don't get why you said "try harder" here - are you attempting to provoke me? - It seems to me you're letting personal enjoyment of WoW guide cloud the waters here. Please don't react with hostility simply because *you enjoy WoW*. As an impartial designer, I deem WoW mediocre. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it, but realize that from the pure design perspective, you are not going to like what you hear. If that bothers you, there are, what, 11 million people playing WoW who I'm sure will be more than happy to agree with you - but people who understand design will not, and hostility won't change that.
[QUOTE="Mehdi1984"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] Mass Effect. and any other RPG that gives me more involvement with the attacks than most point-and-click combat RPGs.Verge_6Mass Effect is point and click just as much as WoW is point and click. By the time players hit 60, I would find it shocking if they still "point and clicked" unless they are just really bad at games. Why do I get the feeling people in this thread have played Diablo 2, and are only assuming what WoW is about without actually playing it? Lol? TPS combat equates to WoWs? Srsly?
I know your a decent poster Verge, but please explain how WoW is point and click ... oh please do .... :|
I'm sorry but after playing the "great" RPG's this generation, Mass Effects, Fallout's, OblivionEddie-VedderWhen have I ever called Oblivion "great" :| ? WoW arena doesn't take creative skill, it takes repetition and time investment. The "pros" study the game more, and play it more, that's all.
[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]I'm sorry but after playing the "great" RPG's this generation, Mass Effects, Fallout's, OblivionsubrosianWhen have I ever called Oblivion "great" :| ? WoW arena doesn't take creative skill, it takes repetition and time investment. The "pros" study the game more, and play it more, that's all.
So, your skill bashing, even though its no different in a single player RPG, how can you deny has WoWÂ has good, fluent combat, more so than most RPGs and MMOs...... Maybe not so much in PvE... although I find those boss fights more immersive and engaging than any RPG, yes, I might be 1,2,12,12,12,12, spamming ... or as a Shadow Priest probably one of the most for a Damage Dealer .... I have to press 7 buttons in rotation just to match the other damn DPSers :P.
..... its really mind boggeling tbh, I like SRPG's aswell, for thier story and immersion, but my god, 90% of WRPG's combat is dull ..... even fallouts ... its not even because its slow, its because its effortless.... compared to MMO's ....
[QUOTE="Mehdi1984"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] Mass Effect. and any other RPG that gives me more involvement with the attacks than most point-and-click combat RPGs.Verge_6Mass Effect is point and click just as much as WoW is point and click. By the time players hit 60, I would find it shocking if they still "point and clicked" unless they are just really bad at games. Why do I get the feeling people in this thread have played Diablo 2, and are only assuming what WoW is about without actually playing it? Lol? TPS combat equates to WoWs? Srsly? Seriously, Mass Effect isn't point and click? Last time I checked, you click point on an enemy... and you click to use your move.
Dude your just late to the party, the doesn't mean the game sucks, it's an MMO, it's constantly evolving, ofc the core community is up at max level, and ofc that's where the game really shines.Eddie-Vedder
That is a terrible excuse. A game experience should be the same for both newbies and veterans. I don't care if it is "evolving," having to grind through 60 levels to get to "the fun" makes WoW completely void from achieving something of "the best."
I haven't played it yet and don't know if I will enjoy the game or not but having to be max level to "enjoy" the game is something I think anyone can see as being wrong.
When have I ever called Oblivion "great" :| ? WoW arena doesn't take creative skill, it takes repetition and time investment. The "pros" study the game more, and play it more, that's all.[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]I'm sorry but after playing the "great" RPG's this generation, Mass Effects, Fallout's, OblivionPC360Wii
So, your skill bashing, even though its no different in a single player RPG, how can you deny has WoWÂ has good, fluent combat, more so than most RPGs and MMOs...... Maybe not so much in PvE... although I find those boss fights more immersive and engaging than any RPG, yes, I might be 1,2,12,12,12,12, spamming ... or as a Shadow Priest probably one of the most for a Damage Dealer .... I have to press 7 buttons in rotation just to match the other damn DPSers :P.
..... its really mind boggeling tbh, I like SRPG's aswell, for thier story and immersion, but my god, 90% of WRPG's combat is dull ..... even fallouts ... its not even because its slow, its because its effortless.... compared to MMO's ....
Exactly, it's clear as day that WoW is full of skill by just watching any PVP video out there. You don't just unskillfully learn how to team up as a Rogue, with a Pally... go into an Arena only to find out you're playing a Shaman and a Warrior... and expect to just stand there hitting 1 1 1 1 1 ... LOL. Seriously, where are these posers coming from... as if they actually play the game.[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] Let me get this straight, the arguement for WoW sucking now is because people want to stack up on stats? Seriously try harder.subrosianNo, my argument is the entirety of what I posted. Removing a single word of it, or any attempt to "summarize" or "simplify" what I've said removes the meaning, and will be considered an act of trolling. I don't get why you said "try harder" here - are you attempting to provoke me? - It seems to me you're letting personal enjoyment of WoW guide cloud the waters here. Please don't react with hostility simply because *you enjoy WoW*. As an impartial designer, I deem WoW mediocre. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it, but realize that from the pure design perspective, you are not going to like what you hear. If that bothers you, there are, what, 11 million people playing WoW who I'm sure will be more than happy to agree with you - but people who understand design will not, and hostility won't change that.
Sry if I sounded hostlie, you just get a bunch of clueless people on these forums claiming crap the clearly don't know, not refering to you!
Using the same example I did before in this thread of a random pvp I found on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmwCguP-1As
Your saying this combat is mediocre and takes no skill? I'm sorry but whoever that mage is he knows his ****extremely well, has GREAT reflexes and precision, not to mention the mobility envolved which is absolutly CRUCIAL in WoW. And I'd love for you tell me what you consider amazing combat in an RPG.
[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]Dude your just late to the party, the doesn't mean the game sucks, it's an MMO, it's constantly evolving, ofc the core community is up at max level, and ofc that's where the game really shines.foxhound_fox
That is a terrible excuse. A game experience should be the same for both newbies and veterans. I don't care if it is "evolving," having to grind through 60 levels to get to "the fun" makes WoW completely void from achieving something of "the best."
I haven't played it yet and don't know if I will enjoy the game or not but having to be max level to "enjoy" the game is something I think anyone can see as being wrong. I thought you said you were already almost done with the trial?
Lol? TPS combat equates to WoWs? Srsly?[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Mehdi1984"] Mass Effect is point and click just as much as WoW is point and click. By the time players hit 60, I would find it shocking if they still "point and clicked" unless they are just really bad at games. Why do I get the feeling people in this thread have played Diablo 2, and are only assuming what WoW is about without actually playing it?PC360Wii
I know your a decent poster Verge, but please explain how WoW is point and click ... oh please do .... :|
You tag an enemy, and then you click the attack buttons. Ta da.I thought you said you were already almost done with the trial? Mehdi1984
When did I ever say that? I said I am going through the trial over the Christmas break.
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