Worst milking ever?(56k)

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

This:

This:

gamefan67

LMAO! Epic win!

[QUOTE="StryderK"]

CLIPPED!!GreenGoblin2099

Well apparently, you're the only one in this forum who doesn't think Mario is milkage.

It is.

My definition of milkage:

1. it has to come out regularly, i.e. every year, every two years. If a game doesn't come out until three years after it's previous version. Then it's not exactly milkage! i.e. Mainline Marios, Mario Karts etc. Although featuring the Italian plumbers, are two totally different game, so you can't group them together and they have only one version every generation, unlike say Ratchet and Clank, some 6 games in 7 years!

2. The have to have some sort of rehash within the gameplay. I.e. their gameplay must remain mostly the same. If a game comes and is totally different than the previous ones, then you can not say its milkage cause the company at least made the effort to try and change things up, rather offering the same ol' same ol. i.e. Mario platformer is once again, the prime example. It's not only fun, but every iteration, it change things up for the better. Even the "bad" ones offers something new! Can't say that about say, Rachet, Jaks etc. Even something like Golf, Tennis, Kart etc. contain something new each version (maybe except the latest cart) to change up the gameplay. That to me, doesn't make Mario milking.

Yes, you can say Mario is milking cause he appeared in so many games. But conversly, those games are so different, fun, and doesn't appear yearly that you can't really say it's milking, but more liken, "Nintendo just added Mario and the gang into the game so it would sell". That doesn't mean it's milking.

Yes, you can say Mario is milking cause he appeared in so many games. But conversly, those games are so different, fun, and doesn't appear yearly that you can't really say it's milking, but more liken, "Nintendo just added Mario and the gang into the game so it would sell". That doesn't mean it's milking.

StryderK

Thats exactly what milking is.

They're still great games, but they are an example of milking.

[QUOTE="StryderK"]

Yes, you can say Mario is milking cause he appeared in so many games. But conversly, those games are so different, fun, and doesn't appear yearly that you can't really say it's milking, but more liken, "Nintendo just added Mario and the gang into the game so it would sell". That doesn't mean it's milking.

hakanakumono

Thats exactly what milking is.

They're still great games, but they are an example of milking.

you see, we have different opinons on milking.....

Milking to me is putting up game with the same ol' gameplay year after year after year after year with little if any changes. Rachet, FF, Madden, CoD, GH are milking. Mario games doesn't appear yearly, they alway do something different, they are fun and most of all, Nintendo do put some effort into the development process, unlike say, Ubiport with Rainbow six etc.....

Again, take a look at the various Mario games. Despite the "milking" how many are there (True games that stars Mario, if he makes a cameo appearance, like in GC's SSX, it doesn't really count). There are actually not all that many! Even if you add all the mainline platformers, Carts and sports games, that still average out to like 4 years a game....Hardly milking......Unlike say Ratchet, 6 games in 7 years! Now who's milking? Now, if you say Nintendo is milking Mario the CHARACTER, then we are on another story entirely!!!!!!

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"][QUOTE="StryderK"]

Yes, you can say Mario is milking cause he appeared in so many games. But conversly, those games are so different, fun, and doesn't appear yearly that you can't really say it's milking, but more liken, "Nintendo just added Mario and the gang into the game so it would sell". That doesn't mean it's milking.

StryderK

Thats exactly what milking is.

They're still great games, but they are an example of milking.

you see, we have different opinons on milking.....

Milking to me is putting up game with the same ol' gameplay year after year after year after year with little if any changes. Rachet, FF, Madden, CoD, GH are milking. Mario games doesn't appear yearly, they alway do something different, they are fun and most of all, Nintendo do put some effort into the development process, unlike say, Ubiport with Rainbow six etc.....

Again, take a look at the various Mario games. Despite the "milking" how many are there (True games that stars Mario, if he makes a cameo appearance, like in GC's SSX, it doesn't really count). There are actually not all that many! Even if you add all the mainline platformers, Carts and sports games, that still average out to like 4 years a game....Hardly milking......Unlike say Ratchet, 6 games in 7 years! Now who's milking? Now, if you say Nintendo is milking Mario the CHARACTER, then we are on another story entirely!!!!!!

You're confused.

First of all, Rachet sequels are released faster than Mario games because the developers work faster. 6 games in 7 years isn't milking, its efficient.

Milking is when you wander off the path, so to say. Just because a new mario game was released for the wii doesn't mean he was milked. The fact that there's mario golf, mario tennis, etc means that he's milked. Could the games have been individual games without Mario? Yes. They're golf games, tennis games, etc that could have had their own characters, but mario was included because he's easily notifiable and he's there to make the game sell more.

Sony doesn't really milk their series because they don't have any mascots they can milk.

A good example of milking is the Resident Evil series. After 2, Resident Evil 3 was planned as a side game (was never intended to have the 3 until the end) and next Code Veronica was made. That's two side games. There was also a remake of the original and then a prequel. And to top it off, two online games, a gameboy game, and countless ports. Meanwhile, no true installments were ever intended to be made since 1998 until Resident Evil 4.

[QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Thats exactly what milking is.

They're still great games, but they are an example of milking.

hakanakumono

you see, we have different opinons on milking.....

Milking to me is putting up game with the same ol' gameplay year after year after year after year with little if any changes. Rachet, FF, Madden, CoD, GH are milking. Mario games doesn't appear yearly, they alway do something different, they are fun and most of all, Nintendo do put some effort into the development process, unlike say, Ubiport with Rainbow six etc.....

Again, take a look at the various Mario games. Despite the "milking" how many are there (True games that stars Mario, if he makes a cameo appearance, like in GC's SSX, it doesn't really count). There are actually not all that many! Even if you add all the mainline platformers, Carts and sports games, that still average out to like 4 years a game....Hardly milking......Unlike say Ratchet, 6 games in 7 years! Now who's milking? Now, if you say Nintendo is milking Mario the CHARACTER, then we are on another story entirely!!!!!!

You're confused.

First of all, Rachet sequels are released faster than Mario games because the developers work faster. 6 games in 7 years isn't milking, its efficient.

Milking is when you wander off the path, so to say. Just because a new mario game was released for the wii doesn't mean he was milked. The fact that there's mario golf, mario tennis, etc means that he's milked. Could the games have been individual games without Mario? Yes. They're golf games, tennis games, etc that could have had their own characters, but mario was included because he's easily notifiable and he's there to make the game sell more.

Sony doesn't really milk their series because they don't have any mascots they can milk.

A good example of milking is the Resident Evil series. After 2, Resident Evil 3 was planned as a side game (was never intended to have the 3 until the end) and next Code Veronica was made. That's two side games. There was also a remake of the original and then a prequel. And to top it off, two online games, a gameboy game, and countless ports. Meanwhile, no true installments were ever intended to be made since 1998 until Resident Evil 4.

No, you just don't know where I am coming from that's all. Every book has two pages, every coin has two faces. You are just staying on your side and is having a hard time understand where I am from.

I understand why some people would call Mario milked because....Well, when Mario is appearing as a cameo in EA games such as NBA Street or SSX, then something tells you it's not right.....But that just mean Nintendo is milking the Mario CHARACTER!

As for Ratchet, you call it efficiency, I call it being rehashed and milked! AKA, when you are playing Ratchet and Clank: Future Tools of Destruction and after about 30 minutes, a voice inside you head is going, "Been There, Done That!" Then that warning bell called, "Something smells rotten in Belgium" is going off! Of course they are efficient! When they take the basic gameplay, just add some new weapons etc, and then call it a day, of course they'll punch it out year after year! This is why SMG destroyed RFTOD in both average scores and sales!

Again, I'm not arguing Mario in the sports games. However, consider this, would those games have sold as well without Mario? After you spend years, millions and energy developing a very good game (Shut up Sheep haters. Almost all of them except Mario Party have average scores of 80% or better, some, like Paper Mario, are AAA class games! ), do you really want to run the risk of selling bad and make a loss on investment? Again, Mario is only there to gurantee the game sells so technically speaking, it's not milking. And besides, you can't even call it milking (from my definition) if every gen we only get one version of each game (Again, add up all the Mario main line platform and sports game, and since the original Mario Bro. there have only been one of the games every four years or so) each gen, unlike Ratchet, same game, better graphics, just slightly different weapons and story........All of this is true except Mario PArty. Now that is Milking!!!!

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"][QUOTE="StryderK"]

you see, we have different opinons on milking.....

Milking to me is putting up game with the same ol' gameplay year after year after year after year with little if any changes. Rachet, FF, Madden, CoD, GH are milking. Mario games doesn't appear yearly, they alway do something different, they are fun and most of all, Nintendo do put some effort into the development process, unlike say, Ubiport with Rainbow six etc.....

Again, take a look at the various Mario games. Despite the "milking" how many are there (True games that stars Mario, if he makes a cameo appearance, like in GC's SSX, it doesn't really count). There are actually not all that many! Even if you add all the mainline platformers, Carts and sports games, that still average out to like 4 years a game....Hardly milking......Unlike say Ratchet, 6 games in 7 years! Now who's milking? Now, if you say Nintendo is milking Mario the CHARACTER, then we are on another story entirely!!!!!!

StryderK

You're confused.

First of all, Rachet sequels are released faster than Mario games because the developers work faster. 6 games in 7 years isn't milking, its efficient.

Milking is when you wander off the path, so to say. Just because a new mario game was released for the wii doesn't mean he was milked. The fact that there's mario golf, mario tennis, etc means that he's milked. Could the games have been individual games without Mario? Yes. They're golf games, tennis games, etc that could have had their own characters, but mario was included because he's easily notifiable and he's there to make the game sell more.

Sony doesn't really milk their series because they don't have any mascots they can milk.

A good example of milking is the Resident Evil series. After 2, Resident Evil 3 was planned as a side game (was never intended to have the 3 until the end) and next Code Veronica was made. That's two side games. There was also a remake of the original and then a prequel. And to top it off, two online games, a gameboy game, and countless ports. Meanwhile, no true installments were ever intended to be made since 1998 until Resident Evil 4.

No, you just don't know where I am coming from that's all. Every book has two pages, every coin has two faces. You are just staying on your side and is having a hard time understand where I am from.

I understand why some people would call Mario milked because....Well, when Mario is appearing as a cameo in EA games such as NBA Street or SSX, then something tells you it's not right.....But that just mean Nintendo is milking the Mario CHARACTER!

As for Ratchet, you call it efficiency, I call it being rehashed and milked! AKA, when you are playing Ratchet and Clank: Future Tools of Destruction and after about 30 minutes, a voice inside you head is going, "Been There, Done That!" Then that warning bell called, "Something smells rotten in Belgium" is going off! Of course they are efficient! When they take the basic gameplay, just add some new weapons etc, and then call it a day, of course they'll punch it out year after year! This is why SMG destroyed RFTOD in both average scores and sales!

Again, I'm not arguing Mario in the sports games. However, consider this, would those games have sold as well without Mario? After you spend years, millions and energy developing a very good game (Shut up Sheep haters. Almost all of them except Mario Party have average scores of 80% or better, some, like Paper Mario, are AAA class games! ), do you really want to run the risk of selling bad and make a loss on investment? Again, Mario is only there to gurantee the game sells so technically speaking, it's not milking. And besides, you can't even call it milking (from my definition) if every gen we only get one version of each game (Again, add up all the Mario main line platform and sports game, and since the original Mario Bro. there have only been one of the games every four years or so) each gen, unlike Ratchet, same game, better graphics, just slightly different weapons and story........All of this is true except Mario PArty. Now that is Milking!!!!

Yes, they're milking the mario character. That's milking. Milking is milking.

Uhm, Mario games are very similar to each other as well. o_O; But it works. Thats the same reason why Rachet & Clank games continue to be made. Because they work. It'd be a sad day when they didn't make any new mario games, because they're great.

The latest mario game and Ratchet and Clank are only 10% different. They're both very high quality games. And of course mario is going to destroy R&C in sales, its MARIO.

No they wouldn't have. Just because there's a reason why he's milked doesn't mean that it's not mliking. Just because a game series is milked doesn't make it invalid.

You're defending mario from milking as if milking is a horrible thing. Milking isn't bad unless the milk goes bad.

"unlike Ratchet, same game, better graphics, just slightly different weapons and story........"

You mean exactly like Mario. o_O; Mario just has less gimmicks.

@ Blackbond

Ports

Front Mission 2089: Border of Madness (DS) Mobile phone port

Non FF/DQ/KH Games

Nanashi no Game (DS)

@ Blackbond

Ports

Front Mission 2089: Border of Madness (DS) Mobile phone port

Non FF/DQ/KH Games

Nanashi no Game (DS)

Legna_san

a.k.a. "No name game." Nothing to pay attention to. It's in the title. XD

Just kidding.

Came out in 2005 and there are already 12 games and at least 3 more in the works for 2009. At least Rock Band is taking a break.

Activision: the emperor's of milkingfoxhound_fox

NO kidding! CoD is another one!

and to make my point clear.

I'm not arguing Mario is being milked. I agree fully Mario the CHARACTER is being milked silly! (Again, when Mario and the gang appears in games OTHER than Nintendo, such as EA's SSX and NBA Street, then we got problems).

But if you are arguing Mario GAMES are being milked (ie, games that stars mario, not cameo apperances), then it's just a no, but a big fat no! Not when Mario main line platformers have been so few and so far in between, and hwne they come out, always do something new. Even games like Karts, and other sports games have only one version per gen and each time, throw something new into the fold and has effort and time and energy spend into their development.

No, Mario GAMES are not milked, not when there are worse offenders such as Madden, CoD, the aformentioned GH, FF and others. Now as a character, the only other one being milked nearly as bad is probably Pickachu!

Yes, they're milking the mario character. That's milking. Milking is milking.

Uhm, Mario games are very similar to each other as well. o_O; But it works. Thats the same reason why Rachet & Clank games continue to be made. Because they work. It'd be a sad day when they didn't make any new mario games, because they're great.

The latest mario game and Ratchet and Clank are only 10% different. They're both very high quality games. And of course mario is going to destroy R&C in sales, its MARIO.

No they wouldn't have. Just because there's a reason why he's milked doesn't mean that it's not mliking. Just because a game series is milked doesn't make it invalid.

You're defending mario from milking as if milking is a horrible thing. Milking isn't bad unless the milk goes bad.

"unlike Ratchet, same game, better graphics, just slightly different weapons and story........"

You mean exactly like Mario. o_O; Mario just has less gimmicks.

hakanakumono

Your bold is why I don't consider Mario GAMES to being milked....Again, my definition is pretty strict and when Mario games are so far apart and have effort put in, then you can't really say is milking. I'm not defending it. I just think people (especially fanboyz has a misconception of milking) see multiple games coming in every year, then it's automatically milking. It's not. I understand why Nintendo would not "milk" Mario starred games. If as you say, "the milk goes bad", then Mario's image will be ruined.

My definition of milking would be again, take the same game, offer very little changes and then just rehash it every year. AGain, I use Rachet because again, for me at least, 30 minutes in, "Been There, Done That!!!". I don't get the same feeling while playing SMG! I guess it's because while SMG contain the same story (Mario rescue Princess), the same mechanics (jump), the scenirio, level design, power-ups, how do you go about doing it, is totally different than all previous Mario platforms. I can not say the same about Rachet. Rachet may have different stages, but the stage design offers very similar expreiences to all previous Rachet. Weapons again are differetn, but it's usage and "feel" just feels too similar. Again, Rachet is a good game. But there is a whole entire reason why this site and a few others gave it a low score (this site too low, 8.0 here) while SMG won GOTY and is third on gamerankings! AGain, it's hard to describe. But when the phrase, "Been there, done that" (Like in GeoW2) whispers in my head, it usually leads to warning bell. I didn't get that with SMG.

I think LIVE Is a reap off, my 1 month free is over and i m not planing to pay 60 bucksSolid_Snak3Xx

I don't think $50 for such a good service is bad....Still...However, since begining of 2008, I never purchased Gold again cause I'm tired of 10-13 year olds on Live who think it's "Da MaTURZ anda TeH KooLZZZZ to scream the F and S bomb every other sentence, cry like a baby when I beat them, jaw others ears off on how much of a badass sob they are and generally make themselves total idiots on games such as TF2, Halo3 etc......If I want to party, then I'll hang out at places I know where adults are adults (Bunco) or invite my friends to party at our house, which to me, is far more enjoyable than getting my ears screamed off by obnoxious 12 year olds (especially if you got beers and coke in the fridge, pizzas from Papa Johns, chips and Chinese fish flavored rice cakes on the coffee table)!

Super Mario Galaxy

[QUOTE="Solid_Snak3Xx"]I think LIVE Is a reap off, my 1 month free is over and i m not planing to pay 60 bucksStryderK

I don't think $50 for such a good service is bad....Still...However, since begining of 2008, I never purchased Gold again cause I'm tired of 10-13 year olds on Live who think it's "Da MaTURZ anda TeH KooLZZZZ to scream the F and S bomb every other sentence, cry like a baby when I beat them, jaw others ears off on how much of a badass sob they are and generally make themselves total idiots on games such as TF2, Halo3 etc......If I want to party, then I'll hang out at places I know where adults are adults (Bunco) or invite my friends to party at our house, which to me, is far more enjoyable than getting my ears screamed off by obnoxious 12 year olds (especially if you got beers and coke in the fridge, pizzas from Papa Johns, chips and Chinese fish flavored rice cakes on the coffee table)!

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
Came out in 2005 and there are already 12 games and at least 3 more in the works for 2009. At least Rock Band is taking a break.

Activision: the emperor's of milkingStryderK

NO kidding! CoD is another one!

and to make my point clear.

I'm not arguing Mario is being milked. I agree fully Mario the CHARACTER is being milked silly! (Again, when Mario and the gang appears in games OTHER than Nintendo, such as EA's SSX and NBA Street, then we got problems).

But if you are arguing Mario GAMES are being milked (ie, games that stars mario, not cameo apperances), then it's just a no, but a big fat no! Not when Mario main line platformers have been so few and so far in between, and hwne they come out, always do something new. Even games like Karts, and other sports games have only one version per gen and each time, throw something new into the fold and has effort and time and energy spend into their development.

No, Mario GAMES are not milked, not when there are worse offenders such as Madden, CoD, the aformentioned GH, FF and others. Now as a character, the only other one being milked nearly as bad is probably Pickachu!

Milked is milked. Mario as a character is milked. Mario is milked. Mario Kart games are mario. FF isn't that bad of an offender. I'm glad FF milks their series. FFIV on the snes did not age well. So thank god square is there to milk it into being 3D on the DS with a budget bigger than the original would have ever had.

It's not bad that its milked if you do it well. Mario is milked, but a game with mario in the title is usually a very high quality game.

The only problem with milking, as brought up by blackbond earlier (indirectly), is that there could be room for a new IP thats a risk compared to the guaranteed success of a series that is milked.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Yes, they're milking the mario character. That's milking. Milking is milking.

Uhm, Mario games are very similar to each other as well. o_O; But it works. Thats the same reason why Rachet & Clank games continue to be made. Because they work. It'd be a sad day when they didn't make any new mario games, because they're great.

The latest mario game and Ratchet and Clank are only 10% different. They're both very high quality games. And of course mario is going to destroy R&C in sales, its MARIO.

No they wouldn't have. Just because there's a reason why he's milked doesn't mean that it's not mliking. Just because a game series is milked doesn't make it invalid.

You're defending mario from milking as if milking is a horrible thing. Milking isn't bad unless the milk goes bad.

"unlike Ratchet, same game, better graphics, just slightly different weapons and story........"

You mean exactly like Mario. o_O; Mario just has less gimmicks.

StryderK

Your bold is why I don't consider Mario GAMES to being milked....Again, my definition is pretty strict and when Mario games are so far apart and have effort put in, then you can't really say is milking. I'm not defending it. I just think people (especially fanboyz has a misconception of milking) see multiple games coming in every year, then it's automatically milking. It's not. I understand why Nintendo would not "milk" Mario starred games. If as you say, "the milk goes bad", then Mario's image will be ruined.

My definition of milking would be again, take the same game, offer very little changes and then just rehash it every year. AGain, I use Rachet because again, for me at least, 30 minutes in, "Been There, Done That!!!". I don't get the same feeling while playing SMG! I guess it's because while SMG contain the same story (Mario rescue Princess), the same mechanics (jump), the scenirio, level design, power-ups, how do you go about doing it, is totally different than all previous Mario platforms. I can not say the same about Rachet. Rachet may have different stages, but the stage design offers very similar expreiences to all previous Rachet. Weapons again are differetn, but it's usage and "feel" just feels too similar. Again, Rachet is a good game. But there is a whole entire reason why this site and a few others gave it a low score (this site too low, 8.0 here) while SMG won GOTY and is third on gamerankings! AGain, it's hard to describe. But when the phrase, "Been there, done that" (Like in GeoW2) whispers in my head, it usually leads to warning bell. I didn't get that with SMG.

You don't think effort is put into Ratchet in Clank when it only ranked about 1 point on a 10 point scale beneath Mario (latest games)?

Thats not what being milked is. It's not about your definition, its either milked or its not. Mario does milk mario games because even if the milk goes bad people would still buy mario games.

Probably because you don't like Ratchet and Clank games that much? All mario games seem pretty familiar to me. They all feel like a mario game. Arguing that each mario game is very different isn't very smart. I've played mario games. Each mario games is fairly similar. You're making a ridiculous point that no one is going to believe but you so I'm going to ignore it.

GT5 Prologue

Anyone that bought this and intends to pay again for the same code when the final game is released seriously needs to have words with themselves.

[QUOTE="StryderK"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
Came out in 2005 and there are already 12 games and at least 3 more in the works for 2009. At least Rock Band is taking a break.

Activision: the emperor's of milkinghakanakumono

NO kidding! CoD is another one!

and to make my point clear.

I'm not arguing Mario is being milked. I agree fully Mario the CHARACTER is being milked silly! (Again, when Mario and the gang appears in games OTHER than Nintendo, such as EA's SSX and NBA Street, then we got problems).

But if you are arguing Mario GAMES are being milked (ie, games that stars mario, not cameo apperances), then it's just a no, but a big fat no! Not when Mario main line platformers have been so few and so far in between, and hwne they come out, always do something new. Even games like Karts, and other sports games have only one version per gen and each time, throw something new into the fold and has effort and time and energy spend into their development.

No, Mario GAMES are not milked, not when there are worse offenders such as Madden, CoD, the aformentioned GH, FF and others. Now as a character, the only other one being milked nearly as bad is probably Pickachu!

Milked is milked. Mario as a character is milked. Mario is milked. Mario Kart games are mario. FF isn't that bad of an offender. I'm glad FF milks their series. FFIV on the snes did not age well. So thank god square is there to milk it into being 3D on the DS with a budget bigger than the original would have ever had.

It's not bad that its milked if you do it well. Mario is milked, but a game with mario in the title is usually a very high quality game.

The only problem with milking, as brought up by blackbond earlier (indirectly), is that there could be room for a new IP thats a risk compared to the guaranteed success of a series that is milked.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Again, I don't conisder Mario games to be milked because they don't come out very often and the games has some differences to eachother, except maybe a few like Mario Party and maybe (very iffy here) Kart.

[QUOTE="StryderK"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Yes, they're milking the mario character. That's milking. Milking is milking.

Uhm, Mario games are very similar to each other as well. o_O; But it works. Thats the same reason why Rachet & Clank games continue to be made. Because they work. It'd be a sad day when they didn't make any new mario games, because they're great.

The latest mario game and Ratchet and Clank are only 10% different. They're both very high quality games. And of course mario is going to destroy R&C in sales, its MARIO.

No they wouldn't have. Just because there's a reason why he's milked doesn't mean that it's not mliking. Just because a game series is milked doesn't make it invalid.

You're defending mario from milking as if milking is a horrible thing. Milking isn't bad unless the milk goes bad.

"unlike Ratchet, same game, better graphics, just slightly different weapons and story........"

You mean exactly like Mario. o_O; Mario just has less gimmicks.

hakanakumono

Your bold is why I don't consider Mario GAMES to being milked....Again, my definition is pretty strict and when Mario games are so far apart and have effort put in, then you can't really say is milking. I'm not defending it. I just think people (especially fanboyz has a misconception of milking) see multiple games coming in every year, then it's automatically milking. It's not. I understand why Nintendo would not "milk" Mario starred games. If as you say, "the milk goes bad", then Mario's image will be ruined.

My definition of milking would be again, take the same game, offer very little changes and then just rehash it every year. AGain, I use Rachet because again, for me at least, 30 minutes in, "Been There, Done That!!!". I don't get the same feeling while playing SMG! I guess it's because while SMG contain the same story (Mario rescue Princess), the same mechanics (jump), the scenirio, level design, power-ups, how do you go about doing it, is totally different than all previous Mario platforms. I can not say the same about Rachet. Rachet may have different stages, but the stage design offers very similar expreiences to all previous Rachet. Weapons again are differetn, but it's usage and "feel" just feels too similar. Again, Rachet is a good game. But there is a whole entire reason why this site and a few others gave it a low score (this site too low, 8.0 here) while SMG won GOTY and is third on gamerankings! AGain, it's hard to describe. But when the phrase, "Been there, done that" (Like in GeoW2) whispers in my head, it usually leads to warning bell. I didn't get that with SMG.

You don't think effort is put into Ratchet in Clank when it only ranked about 1 point on a 10 point scale beneath Mario (latest games)?

Thats not what being milked is. It's not about your definition, its either milked or its not. Mario does milk mario games because even if the milk goes bad people would still buy mario games.

Probably because you don't like Ratchet and Clank games that much? All mario games seem pretty familiar to me. They all feel like a mario game. Arguing that each mario game is very different isn't very smart. I've played mario games. Each mario games is fairly similar. You're making a ridiculous point that no one is going to believe but you so I'm going to ignore it.

Again, it's not the effort. i said Ratchet are good games. However, it's about the feeling of, "Been there, done that". Ratchet FToD, when I was playing it, just reminds me of all the previous games. It's like a new coat of paint, but gameplay and everything else is still very similar. I didn't do that with SMG, so did Sunshine, Mario 64, etc. Every iteration of Super Mario platformer is different and play and FEELS differently. Yes, the general concept is still the same. You still gather stars by jumping and killing enemies. But other than this. The rest are totally different. SMG throw so many different gameplay variations, so many screwy gravitation effects, so many power-ups and how you use it that it's totally different than previous Marios. That's why it can't be counted as an rehash or milkage because it didn't give the feeling off, "Been there, done that." Unlike Rachet. Yes, effort was put in, yes, they develop the game efficiently. But you can tell they played it safe by keeping just about everything, design new stages (That's not all that different than previous one). weapons and sceniors. But how you get to the end feels just about the same. Yes, its polished, yes its fun.......But if you played all the previous Ratchet. You basically played FToD. You can not say the same about SMG!

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"][QUOTE="StryderK"]

Your bold is why I don't consider Mario GAMES to being milked....Again, my definition is pretty strict and when Mario games are so far apart and have effort put in, then you can't really say is milking. I'm not defending it. I just think people (especially fanboyz has a misconception of milking) see multiple games coming in every year, then it's automatically milking. It's not. I understand why Nintendo would not "milk" Mario starred games. If as you say, "the milk goes bad", then Mario's image will be ruined.

My definition of milking would be again, take the same game, offer very little changes and then just rehash it every year. AGain, I use Rachet because again, for me at least, 30 minutes in, "Been There, Done That!!!". I don't get the same feeling while playing SMG! I guess it's because while SMG contain the same story (Mario rescue Princess), the same mechanics (jump), the scenirio, level design, power-ups, how do you go about doing it, is totally different than all previous Mario platforms. I can not say the same about Rachet. Rachet may have different stages, but the stage design offers very similar expreiences to all previous Rachet. Weapons again are differetn, but it's usage and "feel" just feels too similar. Again, Rachet is a good game. But there is a whole entire reason why this site and a few others gave it a low score (this site too low, 8.0 here) while SMG won GOTY and is third on gamerankings! AGain, it's hard to describe. But when the phrase, "Been there, done that" (Like in GeoW2) whispers in my head, it usually leads to warning bell. I didn't get that with SMG.

StryderK

You don't think effort is put into Ratchet in Clank when it only ranked about 1 point on a 10 point scale beneath Mario (latest games)?

Thats not what being milked is. It's not about your definition, its either milked or its not. Mario does milk mario games because even if the milk goes bad people would still buy mario games.

Probably because you don't like Ratchet and Clank games that much? All mario games seem pretty familiar to me. They all feel like a mario game. Arguing that each mario game is very different isn't very smart. I've played mario games. Each mario games is fairly similar. You're making a ridiculous point that no one is going to believe but you so I'm going to ignore it.

Again, it's not the effort. i said Ratchet are good games. However, it's about the feeling of, "Been there, done that". Ratchet FToD, when I was playing it, just reminds me of all the previous games. It's like a new coat of paint, but gameplay and everything else is still very similar. I didn't do that with SMG, so did Sunshine, Mario 64, etc. Every iteration of Super Mario platformer is different and play and FEELS differently. Yes, the general concept is still the same. You still gather stars by jumping and killing enemies. But other than this. The rest are totally different. SMG throw so many different gameplay variations, so many screwy gravitation effects, so many power-ups and how you use it that it's totally different than previous Marios. That's why it can't be counted as an rehash or milkage because it didn't give the feeling off, "Been there, done that." Unlike Rachet. Yes, effort was put in, yes, they develop the game efficiently. But you can tell they played it safe by keeping just about everything, design new stages (That's not all that different than previous one). weapons and sceniors. But how you get to the end feels just about the same. Yes, its polished, yes its fun.......But if you played all the previous Ratchet. You basically played FToD. You can not say the same about SMG!

I think what your'e arguing is too subjective to argue. It feels different for you, but it all feels relatively similar to me. To tell the truth however, I've never played an R&C game, I've played other sony first party titles. I'm most familiar with the Siren series.

But isn't upside down mario the same as right side up mario for the most part? Isn't galaxy known for being very, very similar to how Mario 64 operates aside from the gravity?

Why not create a game that feels the same when its a good feeling? Thats quite a goal. If you can take a game that leaves you with a great feeling, then why not try for that feeling again? I attribute a certain feeling to mario games and its pretty good. I'm sure nintendo is going for that even though it feels different for you. Each mario game is a slight twist on the same basic foundation. Galaxy and Sunshine added new things to that twist but its still fundamentally the same.

i think madden is the bigest milage, the game gets a new game every year.iam2green

Just say EA sports lineup!

I think what your'e arguing is too subjective to argue. It feels different for you, but it all feels relatively similar to me. To tell the truth however, I've never played an R&C game, I've played other sony first party titles. I'm most familiar with the Siren series.

But isn't upside down mario the same as right side up mario for the most part? Isn't galaxy known for being very, very similar to how Mario 64 operates aside from the gravity?

Why not create a game that feels the same when its a good feeling? Thats quite a goal. If you can take a game that leaves you with a great feeling, then why not try for that feeling again? I attribute a certain feeling to mario games and its pretty good. I'm sure nintendo is going for that even though it feels different for you. Each mario game is a slight twist on the same basic foundation. Galaxy and Sunshine added new things to that twist but its still fundamentally the same.

hakanakumono

That the thing though. If you played ALL the Rachet game, especially FToD, then you'll understand what I mean and why I'm keeping Mario out of this, especially main line Mario platforming games.

And NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! If you ever played Mario 64 (Three times with all 120 stars. I got Mario 64 level memorized back in the dayz. 5 times beat bowser) and then SMG (Twice, both times with all the stars, including Luigis. Again, back in 2007, I got SMG basically memorized!!!). Then you'll understand where I am coming from. Again, it's hard to discribe. You gotta not just play, but dig in deep into both games to understand. i.e. Sweet Sweet Galaxy, nothing like it in Mario 64. Ghost, Bee, Spring, Fire Flower and Ice power-ups, nothing like it in Mario 64. Not only that, When you see one of these power-ups, you know next part of the stage will make use it somehow. i.e. You need to turn into a ghost to rescue Luigi. You need the ice flower to make it up a water fall to get to the star (without freezing to death) etc. A lot of stage design are like this. After SMG, I commented to a friend that SMG is like a film made by an co-op effort of Steven Spilberg, James Cameron and Robert Zemekis, i.e. a total masterpiece. Ratchet is good, in fact, in some quarters great. But it's like putting Hollywood's B team against the A team of Steven, James and Robert! That's how BIG a difference it is (Then again, you can argue just about every game, even the good ones pales in comparison with SMG).

Again, to put it another way, 10 years from now, I can still pop in SMG, just like I do all the time with Mario 64, Halo, GTA:SA/VC, Goldeneye and still smile. Can't say the same about Ratchet! You can't argue it's "Milkage" when a game is made on this level, with this type of care and this much polish!

So like...all these people saying madden is being milked, mind telling why exactly, besides the fact that it comes out every nfl season(like all sports games)? Especially after this year's madden, how can people honestly say this.ice144

[QUOTE="ice144"]So like...all these people saying madden is being milked, mind telling why exactly, besides the fact that it comes out every nfl season(like all sports games)? Especially after this year's madden, how can people honestly say this.DrinkDuff

Not only that, Madden's main gameplay is considered broken compared to NFL2K......That's why everyone is up in arms with EA buying the only offical NFL license. If EA refine and corrected many of the bugs and glitches in the gameplay, then maybe we can let it go abit.

[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"][QUOTE="ice144"]So like...all these people saying madden is being milked, mind telling why exactly, besides the fact that it comes out every nfl season(like all sports games)? Especially after this year's madden, how can people honestly say this.StryderK

Not only that, Madden's main gameplay is considered broken compared to NFL2K......That's why everyone is up in arms with EA buying the only offical NFL license. If EA refine and corrected many of the bugs and glitches in the gameplay, then maybe we can let it go abit.

[QUOTE="StryderK"]

[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"]An annual franchise shouldn't be sold for full price. If they want to do that, they should release one every couple of years and patch the game every season so it has updated statistics and gameplay refinements.ice144

Not only that, Madden's main gameplay is considered broken compared to NFL2K......That's why everyone is up in arms with EA buying the only offical NFL license. If EA refine and corrected many of the bugs and glitches in the gameplay, then maybe we can let it go abit.

I said GAMEPLAY wise, not the GAME! Anyone who played the latest Madden, although good, still could not compete GAMEPLAY wise to the 2K series. I do agree mode wise 2K is totally lacking!

[QUOTE="KingTuttle"][QUOTE="corn_dogs"]GEoW2corn_dogs

i think madden is the bigest milage, the game gets a new game every year.iam2green

Yes? And? Its not part of the Final Fantasy series really. It just steals characters from it.

What are you talking about? RE2 and RE3 were released after the playstation releases. RE2 was called the "value plus" ver and it was released due to Code Veronica taking forever to be released.

Relies on ports/remakes? No, you're right. But square still works on new stuff. It's not like the ports/remakes are terrible. FFIV for DS was a great tribute to many ****c FF fans' favorite game.

Kingdom Hearts is a Final Fantasy Spinoff. Capcom does do ports of old games and yes they have been guilty of milking games but nobody is as bad as Square Enix.

Square works on new stuff true but it only accounts for less then 25% of what they come out with. FFIV DS was not a great tribute it was just another version of the game we got on the SNES, WS, PS1, and GBA before it.

How was it not a great tribute, when they remade the game in 3D, redid the music, and added voice acting (which was better in the Japanese ver)? Thats a great tribute to a game. The GBA remake included new areas and a new translation.

This is an example ofa game that has no excuse for being ported

Biohazard 0 can run on a wii already. Capcom is only rereleasing it for the wii because it sold poorly for the gamecube, but maybe the new wii audience will eat it up. Thats shameful.

Square's ports are worth it. If they were to release Xenogears again (which is on the Japanese PSN) it'd be worth it. If they were to release Parasite Eve again it'd be worth it. Why? Because they're good games. Sure square shouldn't release IV again unless its next generation. But why not release VI like they did IV? Another cla$$ic that didn't recieve enough credit with the GBA port (although it did recieve a new translation).

Blackbond

We don't need a fifth version of a game.

Biohazard 0 is JPN only.

Xenogears is already on JPN SPN.

See here's the thing. Unlike Square Enix Capcom actually releases new and fresh games. See while SE is giving us nothing but spinoffs/remakes/ports and the occasional awesome game like The World Ends With You they have been completely absent in the console area.

While Capcom they don't rely soly on those silly port/remake/spinoff tactics like SE

• Dead Rising
• Lost Planet
• Phoenix Wright
• Street Fighter IV
• Tatsunoko vs Capcom
• Mega Man ZX
• Viewtiful Joe
• Devil May Cry 4
• Mega Man 9
• Soon to be released Resident Evil 5

Capcom doesn't need to soley rely on ports/remakes/spinoffs between its big hitters like SE does. They do a good job of putting out big name games, sequels and quality fresh IPs and all at the same time.

How can you complain about SE's remakes, ports, spinoffs and sequals and still put THAT list up there? By your logic, if KH is a spin-off of FF solely due to the fact that it has FF characters, doesn't that make Tetsu. vs Cap. a spin-off as well? Damn, talk about sequels in that list, I don't see an origical IP anywhere. Dead Rising and Lost planet both have had their own sequel/spin-off in a single gen. Also, who are you the one to complain about reharsh? You still watch wrestling for god sakes... that has THE biggest rehashed storylines/atmosphere ever. And yes, I understand they have no relevance at all but I'm just simply pointing it out.

i think madden is the bigest milage, the game gets a new game every year.iam2green

• Dead Rising
• Lost Planet
• Phoenix Wright
• Street Fighter IV
• Tatsunoko vs Capcom
• Mega Man ZX
• Viewtiful Joe
• Devil May Cry 4
• Mega Man 9
• Soon to be released Resident Evil 5

Blackbond

How can you complain about SE's remakes, ports, spinoffs and sequals and still put THAT list up there? By your logic, if KH is a spin-off of FF solely due to the fact that it has FF characters, doesn't that make Tetsu. vs Cap. a spin-off as well? Damn, talk about sequels in that list, I don't see an origical IP anywhere. Dead Rising and Lost planet both have had their own sequel/spin-off in a single gen. Also, who are you the one to complain about reharsh? You still watch wrestling for god sakes... that has THE biggest rehashed storylines/atmosphere ever. And yes, I understand they have no relevance at all but I'm just simply pointing it out.

wootasifwoot

Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Phoenix Wright.

Yes just because WWE/TNA rehash storylines doesn't mean that ROH and other JPN Promotions do as well. Contrary to popular belief Wrestling isn't just WWE/TNA.

Final Fantasy. There are so many of them that they all look the same to me.SpinoRaptor24

Proves you don't know anything about Final Fantasy. ._.;

Kingdom Hearts is a Final Fantasy Spinoff. Capcom does do ports of old games and yes they have been guilty of milking games but nobody is as bad as Square Enix.

Square works on new stuff true but it only accounts for less then 25% of what they come out with. FFIV DS was not a great tribute it was just another version of the game we got on the SNES, WS, PS1, and GBA before it.

Gamepot ate the following person's quote so idk who it is but this is my reply.

So your argument now is that the ports/rehash/remakes/v.2's/sequels from SE are worth it so it's not milkage? SE Milks more than Nintendo does their IPs. That says volumes. StryderK

No. I'm saying that milkage isn't entirely a bad thing.

If Capcom didn't want to Milk RE, we prbably never would have gotten RE3 or RE:CV.

If SE didn't milk FF we wouldn't have gotten the quality remake of IV or the Anthology port to the playstation. Because not everyone started with a super nintendo. Because not everyone started with a playstation. Ports give future gamers a chance to play the best of the past just like you can still find good books from years ago in a book store.

[QUOTE="ice144"][QUOTE="StryderK"]

Not only that, Madden's main gameplay is considered broken compared to NFL2K......That's why everyone is up in arms with EA buying the only offical NFL license. If EA refine and corrected many of the bugs and glitches in the gameplay, then maybe we can let it go abit.

StryderK

I said GAMEPLAY wise, not the GAME! Anyone who played the latest Madden, although good, still could not compete GAMEPLAY wise to the 2K series. I do agree mode wise 2K is totally lacking!

GEoW2corn_dogs

advent children (FFVII)Alias_nemesis

True.